Cat Wiest Oral History Interviews: January 7, 2021 and March 4, 2022

Partial Transcript: Okay. I almost said good morning again.

Segment Synopsis: Cat Wiest introduces herself and states that she is a research and development brewer at Pelican Brewing Company. She discusses her background, stating that she is originally from San Luis Obispo, California, and shares details about her parents' lives and professions. Wiest describes the places she and her family lived while she was growing up, including Guam and Barcelona.

Partial Transcript: What? So what was it like to grow up where you grew up?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest describes her upbringing in San Luis Obispo, California. She reminisces about spending weekends at the beach with her dad before mentioning the development and continued growth of San Luis Obispo. She also talks about Tillamook, where she currently lives, before concluding this section with a brief discussion of where she and her family traveled when she was young.

Partial Transcript: What did you like to do when you were a little kid besides go to the beach?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest discusses her childhood interests and hobbies. She mentions that she enjoyed riding her bike, playing basketball, and engaging in playground sports like tetherball. She also expresses a love for reading and marine science. Wiest notes that her interest in marine science was encouraged by one of her teachers who assigned ocean related homework projects.

Partial Transcript: So what did you do when you graduated? What year did you graduate from high school?

Segment Synopsis: In this part of the conversation, Wiest discusses her post-high school experiences. After graduating in the year 2000, she started at a community college, where she took philosophy and logic classes. She began diving and decided to pursue a masters in diving, but due to financial and personal difficulties ended up leaving college and working at a local strip club. Wiest states that she enjoyed the work there because of the independence and security it provided her with.

Partial Transcript: So when did you decide to leave?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest explains that she ultimately decided to leave the strip club due to concerns about the drug culture many workers and clients participated in. Additionally, she was concerned that the strip club was laundering money, a concern that ultimately proved to be true. She moved to Santa Barbara, where she began working at a bakery, before moving to Colorado. A friend in Boulder told her about an opportunity to work as a commercial fisherman in Alaska, an opportunity that she decided to pursue.

Partial Transcript: So what would you like? How did you end up hiking the Appalachian Trail?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest explains that before beginning her job as a fisherman, she decided to take a trip to hike the Appalachian Trail. She discusses her journey on the trail and notes that it was a very meaningful experience for her despite the difficulties.

Partial Transcript: What did you do when you moved to San Francisco?

Segment Synopsis: After completing the Appalachian Trail, Wiest decided to stay in San Francisco before her job as a fisherman began. She notes that she enjoyed visiting the beach and hiking, although she became homesick for Southern California.

Partial Transcript: So what was it? What was Alaska like?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest describes her experiences working in Alaska. She explains that her job involved working on the Kenai Peninsula as a net setter. The fishing season typically lasted six weeks to two months, which Wiest would spend in Alaska before returning to San Francisco.

Partial Transcript: So what was it like to be a woman in that environment?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest notes that initially she faced challenges as a woman in the fishing industry, and was often stereotyped or dismissed by her male colleagues. Despite encountering such attitudes, Wiest explains that she found a supportive group of seasoned professionals during her first fishing season, which made her feel safe and respected.

Partial Transcript: So when, when did you end up brewing?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest explains that her interest in brewing began after she and her husband moved to Bellingham, Washington. She explains that she learned homebrewing from her husband and became determined to turn it into a full-time job. While working on homebrewing, she applied to a position at Pyramid Brewery, a job that she would ultimately get.

Partial Transcript: So big production, big production facility. What did you, what did you learn there?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest explains that she was initially intimidated working at such a large brewery. She lacked knowledge about various equipment, such as pumps, valves, and triclamp connections and doubted her ability to handle the job during the first week. However, she states that she eventually learned the brewing process. Wiest notes that while she enjoyed the job, her lack of creative input and extensive contract brewing made it feel more like manufacturing than a personalized brewing experience.

Partial Transcript: So then what was it like when it closed?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest says that she worked at Pyramid Brewing, her first brewery job, for about a year before it closed. She explains the events that led to the closure of the brewery, and expresses her frustration with how the closure impacted her and other employees. She notes that the brewery closed very shortly after she and her colleagues formed a union, which gave her a negative view of the brewery. Wiest notes that after being laid off due to the closure she began to feel aimless and purposeless.

Partial Transcript: Did you, so was there a point where you thought about getting out of the industry entirely?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest notes that after the loss of her first brewing job she went through period of disenchantment during which she became less fond of both brewing and of the city she was living in. This period lasted until she interviewed at a brewey called Speakeasy and ultimately became more involved in the brewing community.

Partial Transcript: Oh so what was, what was it like to move to a different brewery?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest discusses her experience working at Speakeasy in India Basin, San Francisco. During her time at Speakeasy, the brewery expanded with new fermenters, bright tanks, a centrifuge, and its own permanent canning line. The brewery underwent significant changes, growing from a 20-barrel system to a larger brew house.After leaving Speakeasy, Wiest then moved to Seabright Brewery in Santa Cruz, where she ultimately became head brewer. After a period of disillusionment, Wiest contemplated leaving the brewing industry and explored other interests, such as horticulture and aquaponics.

Partial Transcript: Did that make you want to mentor people?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest talks about the importance of mentorship in the brewing community. She notes that when she first started working in brewing she often felt foolish and ignorant, and she states that she wants to prevent others from feeling the same. Wiest expresses a sense of fulfillment in being seen as a role model and helping others succeed. Wiest emphasizes the importance of breaking down imposter syndrome, particularly for women in an industry that might not always feel welcoming or supportive.

Partial Transcript: What was it like to go to UC Davis and also who else was in the program with you?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest discusses her experience with formal education in brewing at UC Davis. She explains that studying brewing formally helped her to move beyond her feelings of ignorance and isolation. The discussion then shifts to the topic of glitter beer. Wiest recounts her first introduction to glitter beer, which occurred at a breast cancer fundraiser event where she met Natalie Baldwin. After expressing interest, Baldwin taught Wiest how to make glitter beer, and she eventually created her own glitter beer named Mills Sparkle Pony. The beer gained attention, especially after being listed among the top six weirdest beers in America by the Huffington Post. Wiest reflects on how gaining so much attention changed her career and talks about the discourse that surrounded her product.

Partial Transcript: So with all of that, did you feel like you mean you got a lot of press for it?

Segment Synopsis: Cat discusses her move to Pelican Brewing Company. After deciding to leave Seabright Brewery in Santa Cruz due to the high cost of living, she considered relocating to San Diego, Long Beach, or the Oregon Coast. At a beer festival, she unexpectedly met a representative from Pelican Brewing, shared her brewing experiences, and expressed interest in a potential job. This chance encounter led to discussions with the Pelican team, and Wiest eventually received a job offer, which caused her and her husband to relocate to Tillamook, Oregon. The move initially aimed to be a one-year trial, but within six months, they bought a house, embracing the community and the more affordable living conditions as compared to the Bay Area.

Partial Transcript: So did you join Pink Boots then, when you moved to Oregon?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest discusses her involvement with the Pink Boot Society, an organization that supports women in the brewing industry. Upon moving to Oregon, she joined the board of directors for the Pink Boot Society. The discussion shifts to her advocacy for gender-inclusive language within the organization, aiming to broaden the definition of women to include trans and non-binary individuals. Wiest emphasizes the importance of actively inviting and supporting individuals from diverse backgrounds in the brewing industry. Despite some progress in representation, Wiest states that she believes the underlying attitudes towards race and gender in brewing haven't changed significantly.

Partial Transcript: How do you ask or how do you get not just women to talk about gender?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest discusses how she has engaged male coworkers in discussions about gender in the brewing industry. She shares personal experiences of having conversations with a male coworker about feminism and the importance of fostering understanding through non-threatening discussions.

Partial Transcript: Okay. Go ahead. Introduce yourself.

Segment Synopsis: Wiest introduces herself and explains that she is participating in a second interview to discuss negative experiences she had at Pelican Brewing after the first interview took place.

Partial Transcript: Now I can maximize and not look at those notes.

Segment Synopsis: She discusses a gender-based pay disparity issue she raised at Pelican, and notes that she received a resolution in her favor but was terminated on March 8th. She sought legal recourse for this, and notes that the emergence of the Me Too movement influenced the brewing industry and convinced her and other women to advocate for themselves. The conversation delves into the difficulties women encounter in reporting incidents to HR and the systemic issues related to promotions and leadership training. The discussion then returns to Wiest’s dismissal from Pelican Brewing and her Wiest’s personal experience with seeking resolution for wage disparity through the Oregon Bureau of Labor. Despite facing challenges and being treated poorly upon returning to work, she ultimately received back wages and other compensation.

Partial Transcript: How do you walk back into work after that? Like, what was that like?

Segment Synopsis: After facing issues with gender-based pay disparity and filing a wage claim against her employer, Wiest returned to work at Pelican Brewing in Oregon after studying in Germany. Despite keeping her wage claim mostly confidential at work, she encountered mistreatment, such as her workspace being relocated to a noisy utility area. S

Partial Transcript: So I'm not entirely sure what my question is except, how does that problem of the smallness in the industry combine with the expectations or the training for people who are in leadership positions, combined with the fact that sexism is not a new thing in the world?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest talks about what it’s like to work in a small and insular reputation that trades heavily on one’s reputation. She also talks about the transient nature of employment in the industry, where upward mobility often requires changing jobs. Wiest shares her insights on leadership, emphasizing the importance of willingness and volunteering in gaining experience.

Partial Transcript: So you were in a role where I imagine people come to you and, how, how do you talk to people in the industry who feel like they're struggling? Like what are what are some of the things that you pass down as pearls of wisdom?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest talks about how to navigate challenges in the brewing industry, particularly when dealing with sexism and harassment. She states that individuals facing discrimination should document incidents meticulously and consider reporting them. She emphasizes the importance of having a record in case legal action is necessary. Wiest encourages people to explore legal avenues but acknowledges the challenges and potential negative outcomes. She advises individuals to consider changing workplaces if the situation becomes untenable and expresses hope for a future where more women hold leadership positions in the industry, leading to positive changes.

Partial Transcript: What do you look for...What are the things that you have learned and know that, I don't want to call them warning signs, but maybe warning signs or positive signs.

Segment Synopsis: In this part of the conversation, Wiest talks about her criteria for evaluating breweries in terms of their commitment to equity and safety. She highlights positive signs, such as companies with B Corp certification, breweries participating in the Brave Noise collaboration (which requires a code of conduct), and those incorporating safety measures into their operations. She emphasizes the importance of safety standards.

Partial Transcript: Talk about how you see women in the industry changing or how you see the conversation within that community shifting.

Segment Synopsis: In this part of the conversation, Wiest discusses the changing dynamics and conversations about the women in the beer industry community. She notes a growing willingness to believe women's stories and experiences, highlighting a shift away from dismissive attitudes. The text also touches on a supportive women's event that provided a space for sharing and healing.

Partial Transcript: How do you care for yourself?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest explains that she struggles with self-care, although she finds comfort in her cat and the beach. Wiest notes that she finds it difficult to care for herself in an industry that’s apathetic to women’s well-being.

Partial Transcript: How do you want stories and experiences to be reported?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest describes feeling like a commodity because of her gender, especially during job recruitment. She shares an example of being recruited for a head brewer position at a brewery facing criticism for its treatment of women, and notes that they were likely looking to hire a women as a PR stunt. While one position offered a considerable salary increase, she opted not to accept it due to the negative reputation of the brewery. Another CEO position at a well-regarded brewery offered even more, but during the interview, when asked about her departure from her previous job at Pelican Brewing, the prospective employer acknowledged the issues and expressed understanding. However, Wiest ultimately didn’t get the job, and she suggests that openly discussing legal battles during recruitment may have contributed to the outcome. The conversation also touches on the current atmosphere in the beer industry, with breweries seeking to project an image of diversity and equity.

Partial Transcript: Why did you why did you want to do this?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest explains that she started reading Tara Norton's book, "A Woman's Place is in the Brewhouse," which discusses women's experiences in the beer industry. She found the book upsetting and couldn't finish it immediately due to the bitterness and anger it brought up. It made her interested in sharing her own story, and she states that she hopes this interview can be a part of that. The discussion shifts to Wiest’s experiences at Pelican, where she faced difficulties after being laid off. Despite the challenges, she expresses a determination to stand up for herself and serve as an example for other women in the brewing industry.

Partial Transcript: What do you want to say to women in the industry?

Segment Synopsis: Wiest advises women to ask for more money and encourages them to hang in there. She also emphasizes the importance of standing up for oneself, asking for more money without hesitation, and being direct in communication. Wiest also cautions against compromising safety for the sake of conformity and expresses surprise at the relatively low number of serious accidents in the beer industry given the often unsafe practices. The interview concludes with a brief discussion of the SheBrew festival.