Pam Sullivan Oral History Interview, February 19, 2024

Partial Transcript: So my early childhood was shaped by the fact that I lived part time with my grandparents, in upstate New York, and lived then in Florida for the rest of the year. So from about the age of five until 18, I spent, you know, three months a year living in upstate New York with my grandfather, who was, retired and, an avid outdoors person, and got me really interested in being outside. And then during the school year, I was at home, in Florida. But, a lot of times my parents would take me out of school to do things like, go sailing and go and do other types of adventures. So I got to have a pretty, wonderful experience of, I guess, living in different kinds of conditions and different environments.

Very cool. That touches on sort of the next question here is what do you feel was like an early interest in the field that you were in? Do you feel that you had early interest in your current field?

Yeah. So I thought, along like probably when I was in college, I thought that I was I was going to do something more along the lines of restoration, which is not really what I do now. But, you know, I knew that going in and getting my undergraduate degree, I wanted to do something in environmental science or something to do with forests. And so now I'm a hydrologist or a hydrogeologist and, I definitely do things in forests. It's just not necessarily always like from the lens of restoration.

I see. As for, like, moving forward into school and academics. What do you feel like early elementary and middle school and high school? What did that look like for you?

Well, elementary school, was more challenging. I was very good at math. But I was dyslexic, and I didn't start to learn how to read until I was nine. And so came challenges both from the reading and writing aspects that come with that as well. But I always really enjoyed doing sports and a lot of art and like, if you would give me a math book, I would sit down and just enjoy, you know, being able to solve problems. So I was kind of going into there and then into high school, you know, I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. I don't know if a lot of people in high school are. Some people think they are. I think that life gives us all sorts of different kinds of things. But, nonetheless, I really enjoyed high school. I finished most of my high school in like, three years, and then I took the whole year of art. So to wait for my senior year to finish, and then I, I wasn't really sure where I wanted to go to college. I thought I wanted to go to a college in a really small college. And so we went and visited a couple of small colleges on the West Coast from Florida, because I didn't want to go to school in Florida. I wanted somewhere there to be mountains and seasons. And, while we were adventuring around looking for that small colleges, my Aunt, who was with me said, I think you would really like the University of British Columbia, which is like the opposite of a small college, but I really enjoyed going there, and had a really great forestry program, which felt like a small college in a big university. And it was a wonderful experience getting to go there. So yeah.

Nice. So other than art, did you have any like, clubs or interests or anything socially that you did in high school that you feel kind of shaped who you are?

Yeah, probably. In terms of the leadership roles, I played a lot of sports. I was the captain of a lot of teams. So I was the captain of a soccer team. I was captain of the track team. I swam, I would say out of all of those I played with the most, with soccer, like, oftentimes there was soccer 2 to 3 times a day. So a lot of that. So I think it's shaped who I was by the end of it. I was a little tired of soccer. I'll have to be honest. Yeah, I played it quite a bit.

Yeah I can imagine that. Is that how you made a lot of friends growing up through sports?

I mean, some of my friends growing up through sports, but I am like, genuinely, kind of an outgoing person. And so, I kind of just go into an environment and figure like, you know, like settle up next to someone. I'm like, oh, you're going to be my friend, you know? And that's that's generally how it's ruled my whole life.

Segment Synopsis: Sullivan's early life began with her time living in both Florida and upstate New York. She recalls that every Summer of her early life was spent living with her grandfather who was retired and had a true love for the outdoors. His role in her life sparked an interest in her love of the environment but that was also supported by her parents who during the school year would take her out of her classes often to go on all sorts of adventures. Sullivan recalls how wonderful it was to have gotten to experience different climates so early on. This concept trickled into the next idea that Sullivan had an early interest in restoration and felt that that may be what she ended up doing with her life, all the way until finishing her undergraduate degree she felt this may be her life's work. Today she works within the forest and nature as a hydrogeologist but not quite in the world of restoration. When asked about her early life and time in school she recalls being really good at math but having a long struggle with reading due to having dyslexia. The majority of her time in high school was spent on a soccer field, running track, swimming, doing art, and being generally outgoing with friends and peers. Lastly, she discusses her early desire to attend a smaller college, but upon further analysis and through the suggestion of a family member chose to attend the University of British Columbia.

Partial Transcript: That's really cool. I like that. So you touched a little bit on it, but I wonder if you can expand on how you figured out what you wanted to study.

Yeah. Well, I was in forestry and, at the University of British Columbia, and it was interesting because even by the time I had left there, I did not think I wanted to go into hydrology, but if I, if I looked back on it and I and my friends and I told them after like, you know, as time went on, what I was doing, they were like, no duh. Like, you did the best in that class. You seem to like it the most. Like, you really enjoyed all everything I had to do with it. But I went back to Florida, after I finished my undergraduate degree, and I thought I'd be there for, like, like, two months. I wasn't planning to stay long, and but I needed a job. And so, I started working, like, it was like I probably applied to, like, 40 jobs. It was like, so many. And the only place I could find a job working was at a university, as a as a lab technician for, hydrogeologist. And so I started working for her as a hydrogeologist. Her name was Renee Burrows, at Florida International University. And I just really liked what I got to do. Like, I was being trained to scuba dive into drive motorboat, and I drove air boats, and I collected samples, and we flew around in helicopters, and, like, I just got to see the, like, the beauty of South Florida for what it is, as opposed to the concrete that a lot of folks get to experience. And I really enjoyed it. And so I was, I was really intrigued by some of the problems that she was working on. And so she asked if I wanted to get a master's degree. And I thought, well, you know what? I at the time I was dating someone and I was like, hey, you want to stick around here for two more years? I'll get a master's degree. And I was like, sure, why not? And I started that. And I think I was, you know, 2 or 3 months into my master's degree when she asked if I wanted to get a PhD.. And I said, sure. Why not?

That's awesome. Very spur of the moment, I like that. So what was your original undergraduate degree in.

Natural resource conservation

Okay, so you did think you were going to go into restoration or conservation of some kind for the majority of, your early life?

Yeah, that's what I really thought was going to happen. And I think, I mean, who knows, one day I might circle back to it. You know, there are definitely times where I've dabbled in it as I've gone through, my career. One of my, my first postdoc was, looking at, like, analyzing the impacts of different kind of restoration techniques, on the Florida Everglades. And so while I wasn't doing the restoration work myself, I was definitely examining those, the mitigation techniques that they were using. And then I had done some work also analyzing and understanding some of the best management practices in Kansas that they implemented to understand their impacts as well. So looking at the impacts, I guess I would say of that as opposed to actually doing the restoration myself.

Very cool. So that leads me to do this next one here. Does do you remember any classes or any parts of your undergrad or your master's or PhD that really like stuck out to you and something you remember now?

Yeah. So I was really fortunate to have a class that was a 17 credit class was one class. It was like as you approach the very end of your, college education and, so, like, you're not you're I think it's like the beginning of your senior year and at the end of your senior year. And so you're with like, I don't know, 15 or 20 other people. And we, you go off and each month you go to a different landscape and you understand it from multiple perspectives. So, for example, we went to the alpine landscape and we took lots of measurements trying to understand impacts of aspect and trying to understand, you know, like deer movement even. But then we had to talk with, different users of the land. So if those were skiers or if they were snowmobiles or if they were hikers, you know, and trying to understand and provide recommendations for how to, how to use that landscape and how to also how to preserve that landscape. And so we did that for one month in alpine areas. We did that in grassland systems, and then we did it in kind of larger forests that had rivers in them. So it was a very nice experience. And so you got to spend time thinking about it from a very scientific aspect and a very human driven aspect. And you had to use like your GIS skills and you had to use data analysis skills. And so for each of them, you had to build, a recommendation. And then they judged you on that at the end.

I see. So was that a class you take? On its own. Like first class utilities, I assume. And included travel and. Okay, that's very cool. So did you work on a team or. It was more individual?

Yeah. So it was each entity was in different teams. So you were kind of mixed around. So usually the groups were, you know, 4 or 5 people in a team for any given space, as you were going through there. Yeah. So you got kind of mixed around into different groups, over that time period. But when it came time for your actual, like when they graded you, you, you came up, like, they would mixed your, your team for that component would come in and then the teams would split out and more people would come in and you sat in front of a panel of people, and you just presented it and argued with them or orally.

Sounds awesome, I love it. Okay. So what did you do, sort of day to day or your social life or living situation like, what did that look like in undergrad for you?

I was probably not the best undergrad. I got more serious in undergrad when, you know, one of my classes got more serious, and I got more interested in them. The first two years of undergrad, you know, I really like. I was learning to snowboard. I loved hiking. So, like, more often than not, like, if, if classes permitted, I would go to school, like, you know, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and then try to be outside during things the rest of the time. So I can't say that it was I was the best student. But as things as I became more interested in my classes, I became a much stronger student. You know, I think that's true for a lot of undergraduates. So at least I have empathy for a lot of people in my class. But most of the time, like during the school year, I usually got up and, like, went running with a group of folks through the forest early in the morning with headlamps on and like, you know, crashing into things and then come back and like, do a series of classes. Then usually some kind of like social activity in the evening and rinse and repeat and then, you know, always planning for an adventure to go somewhere. So that's kind of what college is like.

Segment Synopsis: Sullivan began her time as an undergraduate studying Natural Resources, and her current field in hydrology was not something she had considered studying at the time. She recalls how those types of classes were often her strongest and how no one was truly very surprised that that was what she ended up pursuing. Sullivan describes how she made spur of the moment decisions to stay in Florida, pursue a career and a relationship whilst deciding to continue her education into a Masters degree in hydrogeology. Eventually her work in the field led her to complete a PhD as well at Florida International University. Sullivan recalls fond memories of field work and interesting skills she acquired like flying around in helicopters, driving motorboats and air boats and things of that nature. In particular, one class sticks out in her memory as being significantly impactful to her life. Sullivan partook in a high credit class that allowed her to explore different landscapes and travel as well as work in teams and present findings to panels. Lastly, Sullivan explains her time as an undergraduate and how she felt like she prioritized spending time in nature rather than in a classroom, she even joined a club that would run in the mornings through forested areas with headlamps, Sullivan was always game for an adventure.

Partial Transcript: Do you stay in contact with anyone from college or from your undergrad?

So because I was in Vancouver, Canada, I was considered an international student, which seems funny, but, I met the very first couple weeks there. Like a whole handful of international students, mainly from America, but some from Thailand, some from other places in Canada. But that spoke French, you know, and, yeah, we yeah, we still hang out every year.

Oh, wow. So it's like a tradition that you meet up at a certain time or.

Yeah, usually during summers. But I was just hanging out with some of them. Two weekends ago up in Portland. So. That's nice.

That's awesome. To stay connected like that is really cool. I love it. Do you have a favorite part of your experience in college?

I mean, generally speaking, I can like, I remember my parents weren't the ones who paid for college. And I remember them talking to me about taking on all of this debt. You know, it wasn't. Then it wasn't so bad as it is now because the tuition in Canada was frozen, so it was actually quite low, in comparison to going out of state. But it was still money that I wasn't like. If I had stayed in Florida, I would have had like Florida prepaid scholarships and things like that. And I remember thinking afterwards I was like, it was worth every ounce of that $25,000 of debt that I had. I worked really hard during the summers. I had two jobs, typically, to pay for
most of the year. But yeah, I just remember thinking it was awesome. Like, it's it's beautiful. I don't like to live surrounded by a forest adjacent to the ocean. Yeah so I can't say there's just one.

So do you feel like you made the right choice, as all things considered?

Oh, yeah. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Nice. That's cool. So when you talk to people now, do you recommend like trying to travel or get a different country or extreme landscapes?

I definitely suggest it. So I also did a year abroad in, in Chile, while I was getting my undergraduate degree. I think any time you have an opportunity to live in a different culture, it's a really it's an important thing because it, like, opens your eyes. To things you are never going to like. There's no other way to be aware of that, right? You try different foods. You see how different people interact with each other. You see like different traditions. I mean, it's it's just, it's incredible. And as you see these, you get to choose, like, do I adopt these things into my life? Is this a part of who I am now? And I think that's kind of, you know, it makes us understand people a lot better when we have the opportunity to spend time in someone else's culture. And so, like, Canada is not a huge like might not seem like a huge difference. But in Vancouver, Canada, compared to like where I grew up in Florida, I was very used to a Hispanic culture in Florida, and I went to a much a larger predominance of an Asian culture in Vancouver, Canada. And so it was shockingly different to me how people behave in interacting with each other. You know it's neither good nor bad, it's just different. And it was nice to see that.

That's very cool. What was your experience like studying abroad?

I loved it. I basically did a whole year of art there. I tried to make sure that it wasn't going to be something where it had to be too serious. So I had most of the classes that I needed done. And so I went there. I took a couple. I took one class that was very hard, which was environmental law and Spanish. I think that the professor just felt bad for me and passed me.

Segment Synopsis: Sullivan initially references her current connection to a few of her friends from college and has had the annual tradition to meet up with them and catch up. Additionally, a favorite part of her experience as an undergraduate were working hard at multiple jobs to keep her debt low, living in a beautiful place with diverse landscapes, and spending time abroad. Sullivan spent time in Chile and recounts how important it is to experience other cultures and traditions, in addition to this experience abroad she feels she was lucky to have experienced different cultures living in various places in her early life. Lastly, Sullivan discusses her lifelong connection to art and the role it plays in her life today.

Partial Transcript: Do you feel that you faced any early obstacles, just being a woman and trying to study what you wanted to study, getting into college or even getting a job? Or do you feel that you've, been affected in any way by that?

Yeah, I was really I am one of the luckiest people, as a woman scientist that there publicly can be. So every mentor that I've ever had is a woman. So my PhD advisors, my postdoc advisors, like everybody was a woman. So I feel very lucky in that manner. And so I was extremely sheltered when I got my first faculty job at the University of Kansas. My eyes were very open after that. As to the degree to which like, I think it's, I, I forget which word is used. Maybe it's implicit bias. Like, I don't think people are like, and in that circumstance, I think most of the time people were not trying to, discriminate against me because I'm a woman. But I think they did it completely unknowingly. And, you know, especially at the age that I was, you know, I was 30 years old with my first faculty position. And, you know, most people thought I was a student, and they treated me like I was a student. And so it was there was definitely some interesting situations. I was told to be less aggressive. I was told to like, you know, to tone it down. So it's out there, that's for sure. But I think, I think in comparison to, like, my mom and in comparison to the people, like the women that I know from, you know, 30 years ago doing the same job, it's not the same, you know, like, I feel very fortunate not to be in the same position.

Absolutely. Yeah. Did your family or any other women like in your life go to college or have similar experiences?

Yeah. So I we've been very lucky. So there are a number of people in my family who've gone to college. Like all of my parents, my grandparents have all gone to college. My aunts and uncles, so, you know, the I was very lucky in the sense of having people who knew how to do a thing, you know, in terms like going to college is kind of like this, like hidden. I don't know, like if people haven't done it, then how do you know anything about it? Right. And so, I was even more fortunate because my aunt and uncle were both university professors at the University of Alabama. And so my aunt was, professor of social work, and my uncle was a professor of mathematics. And so it was my where my mom did not know how to help me out all the time. She just called her sister and put her on the phone with me and, like, pushed me along and same even throughout my career, anytime I've had questions, I can call my aunt and, well, it's not the same field. She knows what it's like to work in a large university and can give me advice. So it's always been really nice. And my mom is also great. She ran a large hospital with 2000 employees.

That's awesome. Do you feel that, those women in your life helped shape you a lot?

Oh, yeah. Those women told me not to take any shit from anybody.

Segment Synopsis: When asked to recall any experience she has had with gender discrimination in her line of work Sullivan recalls a feeling of being very fortunate to have experienced less than previous generations. Every mentor in her life has been a woman, her Aunt and mother were both very successful women in their respective fields as well and both of them have helped shape her significantly. Sullivan does recall a level of unconscious implicit bias towards women in the form of commentary around her demeanor and often being treated as a student rather than as faculty.

Partial Transcript: All right so kind of moving into, like, your life now and what you do. Where did that start? Like, what events in your life made you consider even being a professor or what steered you that way compared to other, fields within your line of work?

Good question. There's a couple of things. I was offered a job, working for, the the Florida government, the South Florida Water Management District, and. The thing that I had an issue with was the idea that, like work, the kind of research I was going to do was essentially set by the agenda of the state. And while there's a lot of wiggle room in there, I really wanted I didn't want to have to answer to somebody. About how I spent my time. And so I got another postdoc, and I went to Pennsylvania. And I really started enjoying very much the kind of science that I was doing there. And I felt I was very supported by my postdoc advisor, Sue Brantley at the time. And I couldn't think of any other way that I could do the science that I wanted to do without becoming a faculty member. And I realized also that I could not stay a postdoc forever because I did not have enough financial security for me. I'm kind of a weenie on that one. I like to know where my paychecks coming from.

What were you focused on? Like what made you want to study or did you study?

So I, I do a form of, like, the, like, larger umbrella science that I participated in. It's called critical zone science. And so it's science that integrates our understanding of how things operate from the surface of, in terms of, like, vegetation, you know, like trees, grass, corn crops, you know, which those things are changing over pretty short periods of time with like the underlying geology and the interaction between those two things. So it really excites me to think about processes that are very fast in terms of timescales and things that are very long in terms of timescales, and what it means for how it controls how water moves through the Earth and how like carbon and nutrients get exchanged. And it's like this never ending puzzle, like, I mean, it's just for me, it's, you know, there's like these books that you pick up in your life, right? And you pick them up and you just cannot put them down like you're just so enthralled with it. So that's kind of what it was like for me.

That's cool. Do you remember a moment, maybe where you felt like this for me or this is what you're supposed to be doing?

I don't. The only thing I remember, this is not a moment of that, but I do remember a different moment that I'll share with you. And you can interpret this for what you want. So I remember coming back, after a very long day in the Everglades, you know, like, it's 90 degrees out. It's very, very humid. It is buggy baggier than you can even imagine. And we pull off the air boat and we load up our gear. And my colleague says to me, you just got one more data point. And it didn't bother me. Yeah. So I don't think at the time where I said I knew I was going to do science, but I definitely was something that I was like, well, this is what we have to do.

Did you ever feel like you had a struggle balancing work, a social life, and being so involved with your studies and research?

I think anybody who says that they have some perfect balance in their life is lying. So, I think it waxes and wanes and it changes at different times. I mean, I can point to periods during my PhD where things weren't that intense, and then I can point to other periods during my PhD where things were really intense and, you know, they were kind of all encompassing to get the degree done. You know, sometimes you have to push that hard. And the same is true for my like for every stage along the way and including right now, you know, there are times where I have a lot more freedom with my time and I can focus more on, like the volunteering that I do, and I can focus more on, you know, my family and like, reading books that have nothing to do with science. And there are other times where, you know, I'm trying to support my students. And so the priority is trying to help get them through things. So oftentimes that means, you know, reading their papers, reading their proposals, you know, trying to keep science going. And so there are times where, yeah, that part of the balance gets skewed the other way. I think if you average it out it appears balanced but I think if you live it it's not.

What happened that made you switch from research to becoming a professor?

So, so my job, you know, now is a huge chunk of it is doing research. But in order to do the research that I do now, I mentor a lot of students. So I mentor a lot of undergraduates and a lot of graduates and a lot of postdoc students. So I don't really see, you know, I guess that to me, the only difference between, like, doing research, like the research that I was doing before and getting my degrees and where I am right now. I teach, which is, which is nice. It's a nice experience. It's fun to like. It's fun to see people grasp new concepts. And I spend some more of my time as I think giving back to a larger community than only solely focused on research. So, you know, I think that that's just a part of the evolution of, this, this kind of career trajectory. You know, I think the only other places I could have ended up as a job is working for, like, a federal agency such as the USGS or the EPA or one of the national labs, that exist. And the difference working in those might be the the larger might like the time would go towards potentially focusing directly more on management, of like, like land management or operational management or things of that nature. But I think I would it would be something similar to what I do. Not perfectly, but someone.

What is the biggest thing you get out of teaching students? What makes it?

I'm going to split the teaching into two categories. One is mentoring. And one is teaching. So I think there are different things. The biggest thing I get out of mentoring is seeing someone. Have the space to figure out. Maybe what they want to do and where they want to go. And helping them get their. And that's really nice. It's it's fun to help someone see, you know, so many people have done it for me. And I'm I am so happy to get to do it for other people. And, you know, it's so nice. Like you, you may end up in the exact place that you want to be, or you may end up at least being aware enough to say, this isn't the place I want to be. And figuring out how to get out of it. Right. So I think that that's like one of the joys of mentoring. The joys of teaching. These are the light bulb moments. You know, when students like, finally understand something and then beyond understanding it, like they're connecting it to other ideas that maybe they've learned in other classes or that they've read about, and that gets them excited, like they weren't maybe necessarily that excited about a thing, but now they think it's like really the most fascinating thing they've heard of. And you're like, okay, that's cool.

Segment Synopsis: The path to become a professor for Sullivan began with postdoc work in Pennsylvania with work involving critical zone science. Sullivan describes that as a study of how things operate from the surface all the way to the underlying geology and how all of it interacts, for her the idea of timescale and longer processes of the Earth were always the most interesting, like a book you cannot put down. When asked to recall a moment where she knew this was the right path for her Sullivan describes a time when she realized a grueling day in the Florida everglades with extreme heat only gave her one more data point, and it did not bother her. This speaks to the idea that she knew she would do something in science and did not mind being in the field and doing the hands on work. Additionally, Sullivan depicts how she balances her time between social and family life, research, and being a professor. She recalls times when it has been much more intense and other times when it is manageable, she feels that at certain times different things take priority and in that way it flows. In the latter half of the section Sullivan touches on her work as a researcher and mentor for undergraduates as well as the joy of witnessing students and those she mentors grasping a concept. The idea of a student getting to a light bulb moment feels like a joy of mentoring and teaching to Sullivan.

Partial Transcript: What it's like now running a lab and what you do outside of OSU.

I heard what it is like running a lab? And then I didn't hear the rest.

I'm so sorry. I wonder if my connection is bad. What do you do outside of teaching at OSU now?

So, what do I do? I do a lot of things. So I spend I run, pretty large research groups. So I spend a lot of times in meetings, coordinating and organizing these research groups, that, are across multiple states and making sure that we are able to get that research done. You know, part of my job is, you know, doing things like what we call service, which can is a whole lot of different types of things. But, examples of that are reading proposals and papers that other people have put out there and trying to help them make it, the best science that they can make it. I serve on, committees that help to decide how money is going to be invested from, the U.S. government in terms of the where research, directions will go. Inside of the university at Oregon State. I serve on lots of committees that have to do with things like hiring new faculty members. What kinds of graduate students are going to be coming in. I help to evaluate people's teaching. Other people's teaching. I one of my favorite ones is I get to serve on the, like, awards committee. So I, like, get to be like Oprah and give people money, which I really love. So those are some of the things that I do. There's a lot I don't know if I don't want to go endlessly on you.

(at this point videos are turned off to try and help with audio quality)

What is your favorite publication you've worked on or your favorite current project?

Oh, geez. That's a good question. I have several favorite projects. I like them all. So one of the things that I've been really excited about lately, is something that I've been working on with a couple of, like, a graduate student, a couple of postdocs, where we've been working on bringing together, water quality data, in particular, silicon to understand how it's changing. And rivers, kind of, more globally. And while I'm interested in silicon, I the idea behind it is, is like trying to bring together this water quality data such that we can understand like processes, different critical zone processes. And so for me, this is like the beginning of a springboard that might allow for us to understand some of the drivers of water quality and, and different water quality parameters. More of it largely, and to create kind of a nice framework for it. So I'm really excited about that project. But I feel like if you said that, my students would be like, that's only one of the few things that you do. So I, I really I mean, I love the second thing that I love thinking about is. Where plant roots do their work and how it changes the physical structure of the soil, and it changes the way that water flows through it. And I write on a lot of proposals and do a lot of research focusing on those ideas. And so, you know, there's endless questions in my mind of which I could ask about those. But I can't say that I have a favorite publication. I can have publications that took a lot more work than others.

I see it. Very cool. It seems like everything, has a lot of importance to you that you that you study and work on, so that's really awesome.

Yeah. I mean, I don't know why you would work on it if you didn't care about it.

What it's sort of outside of academics. Who inspires you the most or who has been an inspiration in your life?

A lot of people. Well, I always say that my grandfather is probably one of my biggest inspirations, but it's not as a result of doing science. But he always was someone who talks about the lake behind the house. And you know how changes in the forest and how changes in this and that impacted the things that he saw in the lake. Or, you know, how, different kinds of infestations are moving through the forest and like, what it meant for the structure of the forest. But he was he was a history teacher. You know, he didn't talk from a place of, you know, he he was it was much more learned knowledge, you know, just being out there and seeing and like, starting to put together pieces of how things operated. And so he definitely was a person who stoked my curiosity about how these different kinds of things were connected and their potential implications. So I would say he's probably the first person who got me super excited about or super inspired to do the kinds of things that I do.

Do you feel like in your day to day life now you spend as much or less time out in nature? Or do you feel like it really is just more like field work now? Or how do you spend time outside now?

Yeah, so I do a lot of volunteering. I, volunteer to help clear trails, in, around, the Oregon area mainly. And so I spend a lot of weekends, I leave. I try to leave sometimes Friday by noon, and I come home on Sunday nights and I'm out in the middle of these forests, running chainsaws with, team of folks who are typically retired, but a good, you know, they're former surgeons and people who work at Intel and all sorts of stuff. But you're out there just trying to understand and enjoy the forest for what it is, but make it accessible to people at the same time.

That is awesome. Yeah. Do you is that the majority of what you volunteer with?

Yeah, that's mainly what I spend my time on when we volunteer. That's like what I spend most of my time doing. I mean, when I'm not volunteering because there are conditions where we're not allowed to be out there. You know, I enjoy hiking and biking and those kinds of things, during the weekdays and, weekends, if we're not allowed out. But if we're out there, and the forest is open, then we're out there helping out. So we work in some burn areas trying to make them usable in the future. And we work in areas like this last ice storm that just came through. We've been clearing out some of the mountain biking trails for their, their groups. So yeah, it's been a lot of time out there.

Segment Synopsis: In this segment, Sullivan describes her experience participating and running a research group across multiple states. Her additional work includes meetings, reading proposals, and serving on committees. For example she explains that among her favorites are award committees that help with getting students funding to pursue their dreams, a very rewarding role indeed. When asked what has been her favorite thing to work on so far she depicts a project she is currently pursuing around water quality as well as critical zone processes. Additionally she worked on a project focused on plant roots and soil structure and recalls that as a favorite as well. Sullivan also recounts that the most inspirational people in her life have been her grandfather who consistently spoke of nature and kept her involved with the forest. Lastly, in her day to day life today Sullivan enjoys spending time volunteering on forest restoration projects locally. This includes a lot of time outside, working with chainsaws and various tools, as well as restoring areas affected by ice and fire.

Partial Transcript: Leads me into my next question a little bit. Kind of a loaded question, but what do you feel gets you up in the morning? What's like the drive and passion of your life?

There's a large to-do list. I would say in the end, like, well, I think the science that I do is important. I would say it's probably the. The training of people who will be doing this in the next generation. I mean, I know I'm not that old yet, but, you know, I think about like the fact that I get to train so many great students. And they're going to go off to train more people. And that impact is, you know, it can be rippling in many ways. So when I don't want to do stuff, stuff, sometimes it is the larger motivation to get it done. So that's what I'd say.

Very cool. Like it's almost like it's come full circle for you. Like you had a lot of great mentors in your academics and now you get to be that for other people.

Exactly.

So that's very cool.

I love that. What do you feel the future holds for you, whether that be, in your research or in your academics or in your career?

That's a good question, too. I don't know. A lot of people say like, oh, you're going to have you become a professor, and now that's what you're going to do for forever. And I don't know if that's true or not, to be honest with you. Like, I mean, I may stay in academia. I may continue on doing just what I do. I may go off and do something. It's not going to be wildly different in the sense of like it'll still be centered around science and supporting science. You know, and I still have a lot of questions right now, so I think it'll still be focused on the kind of science that I do. But I think there's a lot of different ways to plug in. And, you know, I think I still have like, I don't know, I'm not even I'm 40. So like at least 25 more years of doing stuff. So I don't want to close any doors. You know, I'm open to thinking about different kinds of career paths and things like that. So nothing, nothing that's going to change in the near immediate future.

Right. I love it. Do you have any advice, just in general for students or women in your fields, or people going to college or anyone who's younger just haven't gotten to this point in your life? What do you feel is like, what's the biggest thing you heard?

You know, the biggest thing. Like, so one of the biggest things I have, in particular with women talking to them during interviews, and they're trying to make a decision whether they're going to come into my lab or they're going to go to this place, they're still worried about making a bad decision. You know, and. I just, I like I think that the thing that's so important is a decision. Is this a decision? You can always change your mind. You don't have to keep doing the thing that you're doing, you know, like that. Yes. That can be scary. I get that like, change is scary. But, I think if you are open, you communicate with people, you're open about where you're at with things. You know, it's you can you can decide. I'm not enjoying the thing that I'm doing. And I'd like to take a different path. And I mean, it comes with, you know, it can come with some hardships. I do understand that. Like, maybe you won't make as much money, or maybe you have to go back to school, or maybe you have to move across the country or something. But, you know, I think that there are there's a lot of flexibility in life. If we don't worry so much about the wrong decision and just focus on the fact that we make decisions and we can make other decisions. So I guess that's my only piece of advice.

Yeah. Do you feel like you've had a time in your life that has kind of been an example of that?

Well, it's a good question. I feel like I have. I think you kind of got from the beginning that like, things just pop up in front of me and I just decide to do them. I, I like. So I never believed where I was going to get a PhD. Maybe that's good, maybe that's bad. But I didn't really think that much about it. I never really belabored where I was going to go to college. I just kind of visited things and, you know, like I literally applied to UBC the day I visited there. And then they told me I was accepted and I went there. So, you know, and I've, you know. It just always seems to be that like the right the things continue to like opportunities present themselves and I, I can either choose to say yes or choose to say no. And I think now actually, I have to learn to say no to more things, because more and more opportunities come by me and I have to think a little bit more about it. But I've always just
kind of been a person who feels like this feels right in my gut. I'm just going to go and do it so, you know, and then I if it doesn't work out, like, I don't know, I guess I don't, I don't worry about it too much. So but I can't. Yeah I mean I know there are things in my life that haven't worked out, believe me, there's millions of them but I like I like none of them are hanging me up right now you know.

It's very cool. I think that's a good way to look at it. That's awesome. All right well, that was all my questions. Just to sort of close out. Do you have anything that you wanted to talk about or anything else you'd like to share in general, even if it just pertains to, like, women or, the fact that you are now a part of, the history of women at OSU.

It's nice to think about it that way. That's a good question. I feel like I should have something smart to say. But I mean I think. I don't know. I guess I just say like. Keep doing the things that we are doing right, like, you know. I don't know. I mean, for you, do you feel, I guess the question I would ask from, from your perspective is like, as a woman right now, at your age, do you feel that you have boundaries against you because you're a woman?

I guess, oh. I've become the interviewee. Not particularly, I guess, because I see more women around me and, in my day to day life. And I feel like I would have 100 years ago. And I think that that's a what a massive step forward that now, I mean, for example, the majority of my professors are women. The majority of my mentors are women. And, some of the most powerful people I see in my life are women. And I think that that's all the motivation in the world to keep going. Yeah. And, I think it's, people like you that are, gone through it and become mentors on the other side and help other people go through it and sort of stay in that academia lane. I mean, it really just makes, all these different things that we think we want to do seem possible. So.

Yeah. So I guess that would be my answer back to you then. .

In the sense of like, what? What can we do? Like, you know, continue to like make it possible for women to see themselves in different places.

Right. Like an example of that is, you know, when my mom went to go and to be a head of a hospital at the, at the VA, she was one of two women. And there are, you know, hundreds of hospitals that they have. And she's only one of two women who have done it. If you look across the university systems, you know, and you think about how many women like, we're very fortunate we have a woman president. But like, how many women do you see at the top? You know and it's the same even, you know, for women who are full professors who have made it, you know, past this distant past, associate the full professors, every time you make that leap to the next level, you see fewer and fewer women to be there. So I guess my like, not words of wisdom, but we need to put more women in those positions of power so that other women can see how not easy. It's not easy, but how they can rise to that level.

I couldn't agree with you more. Yeah, that's so well put. All right, well, that's all I had to ask you. Thank you so much for being a part of this project. If you're interested in it, there's a whole website of women who have done the same thing that you just did, and and, this is now, a story that people
get to hear about your life. And so that's really cool. Thank you so much for for letting me ask you questions.

You're very welcome. All right. Have a great day.

You, too. I'll see you in class. Bye. Hi.

Segment Synopsis: In the final segment of our interview a diver dive into Sullivan's passions in life was taken. I asked her what gets her out of bed in the morning and she beautifully describes the joy in training the next generation, creating a full circle from those who helped with her own educational path in life and now she does the same for other students. As for the future, Sullivan is not sure what it will hold, she is open to career changes but ultimately supporting science in some way for her lifetime. To leave me with words of wisdom, she says the greatest advice she has for others is to worry less about making a bad decision and to not be afraid of change. Life can be flexible and to not be afraid to take the leap into life and follow a passion. She then describes an example from her life that displays that in which she decided to spontaneously get a PhD as discussed in earlier segments. Lastly, our discussion concluded with the idea that women are continuing to grow in the world of academics and the world will continue to change as long as we make space for women in different places and fields.