Michelle Smith Oral History Interview, February 18, 2020

NOELLE MANNEN: Alright, this is Noelle interviewing Michelle, what's your last name?

MICHELLE SMITH: Smith.

NM: Smith on Tuesday, February 18th.

MS: Hello.

NM: Alright, so do you just want to go ahead and tell me a little bit about where you were born, what your childhood was like, your family, stuff like that?

MS: Okay, so I grew up in Ohio an hour south of Columbus and if you know anything about Ohio, Ohio is basketball country. Grew up, I actually showed horses when I was younger. We were big into that as a family and then when my brother got in high school, he was a senior when I was a freshman, actually, so a few years ahead of me. He started doing sports, so we started kind of getting into that and then ended up playing varsity everything and small community, small school but just kind of blew up in all the newspapers and stuff and I think I just realized I'm sort of headed toward a scholarship, maybe. Just 00:01:00because that's what people said, I guess. I also had a sister who is 10 years older than me, so she was already kind of out of the house by the time I was getting to that age, but anyway, so yeah we just had the normal nuclear family. I grew up in a farming community, small community, but we were also covered because it was so close to Columbus it was covered by all the newspapers and stuff around Columbus and looking back in hindsight I can see that that had a big impact on my career because there was a lot of media attention. I graduated in, do you want me to just keep going?

NM: Yeah, sure. That's awesome, yeah.

MS: Chronological story here. I graduated and ended up figuring out, well, actually no. I'll go back a little bit. Played AAU basketball out of Columbus. 00:02:00All of the girls on my team, we all got D1 scholarships. Three of them went to Ohio State, and we were just the Nike A team. We were just amazing. That was really amazing as an experience. I verballed to Oregon State my junior year. Along with one of my AAU teammates too, she did as well. Then ended up doing the whole recruiting thing. I guess I went on my 5 visits and stuff, but when I came to Corvallis there was something really special about it just because it was not metropolis. I looked at a lot of schools that were in big cities and stuff, and I just felt like oh this is a nice size. It feels like a small town but there's McDonald's. There's a few more traffic lights here than there are in my town, so 00:03:00that was exciting for whatever reason. Everything was close. I knew if I stayed in the dorms I would have downtown close by and anyway, so I fell in love with Corvallis and decided to come. That eased the pressure through my senior year of basketball and then ended up coming out after I graduated and staying in the dorms and I don't know how much further you want me to go.

NM: Yeah, no, that's great. Did your AAU teammate end up coming here with you?

MS: Yeah, she did, but she actually got really homesick. It's actually kind of a sad part of the story, I guess, is that she ended up leaving and going back and she went to play the MAC conference, central Michigan. That was a great team. A great squad for her, and it was just good for her. I was happy for her, but it was hard when she was leaving I was just like what? I'm really independent 00:04:00anyway. When I decided Oregon State it was going to be an adventure for me. I knew this is just an adventure and it wasn't that we were like woo we're going together. We were excited but when she ended up deciding to go home that was hard at first but not too hard.

NM: Did you ever feel homesick or was it always exciting?

MS: You know, it was always exciting. I'm kind of an adrenaline junky from the horse stuff. We also did four-wheelers and dirt bikes and stuff. I loved this whole setup of being this close to the ocean, this close to the mountains and then everything on my team. I was just learning so much as a freshman, so I did play post in high school and had to learn to be a guard when I got here.

I feel like players are so much more-you guys are just so much farther ahead of 00:05:00us than we were, so I had to work on ball handling and dribbling and bringing it up the court. All those things that I had never really done too much as a post. That was difficult. I think on the difficult days you do tend to think about home. I don't think I was homesick. I don't think I wanted to go lay in my bed at home, it was just more like this is hard. You know? I do love the farm I grew up on and stuff. My parents are still there. But it wasn't about being there. It was just more about like that escape away from what's pressing you and you know. Making you grow. Making you better. That was what it was.

NM: Were there any other interests you thought about? Or was it always basketball, like you kind of knew. You talked about it a little bit, but-

MS: I did play volleyball pretty seriously. Played club volleyball and I mean 00:06:00looking back like I think I really liked volleyball a lot but I think I had more coaches pull me up for basketball. I just maybe was like affirmation. I'm a words of affirmation person, so looking back again, hindsight's 20/20, but I could see how I received so much affirmation for basketball. I was also all-state in volleyball. Got a lot of volleyball scholarship offers, but it was just everybody was always talking about basketball and I loved both sports. It really felt like a great avenue to go have an adventure. I also did track. I went to state in the 400, which was grueling. I mean you think, I don't know if you ran track, but oooh that's so hard. That was hard too, but also so rewarding. All the hard stuff is the most rewarding stuff. They wanted me to 00:07:00maybe do like be a decathlete in track. I never really loved running. But I was good at all that, so it's fun to be good at something. I never thought, oh I want to do a track scholarship. Never thought about that. The mile out here, you know, that was enough. That was going to be enough. When we train for the mile. Volleyball maybe and then I had briefly thought about with horses and how I was so involved with training my horse and maybe doing something with that, but that was a brief thought, too.

NM: Definitely. In terms of school, what were some interests there? What did you decide to major in and stuff like that?

MS: I was always someone and I knew this even in high school about myself, that 00:08:00I was always someone that people liked to talk to and get advice from, whether it was good or bad. I don't know. I think led people in the right direction. I felt like psychology or counseling might be something and then my junior year in high school they offered a psychology class. Really small schools don't offer a lot of stuff like that, but they offered a psychology class and I did that and I really loved it. I ended up majoring in psychology but the other part of that backstory is that I with all of the training with the horses we also raised dogs. My mom was a dog breeder as well and we did a lot of dog training with that, so I actually thought maybe I'll go and be a marine mammal trainer. You know the Free Willy thing. I had awesome opportunities. When I look back I had 00:09:00so many great opportunities. My mom was a teacher, so every summer we did stuff with her and we went to Florida all the time because we had cousins there and we got to stay there and I did internships at this place called Dolphin Research Center. I guess is all I'm saying on paper I was a great qualified person that had been training these large land mammals and now training aquatic mammals. That was a big dream for a while. Then Oregon State when we came out for our official visit, we actually went and visited Keiko. He was that little stint that he was at the Hatfield Marine Science Center, that was the time that I came on my official visit. We drove over there. We actually had to, as per NCAA rules, they couldn't drive us over there because it was too far or something with the rules.

So, we rented a car and we went and saw him. It was just really fascinating to 00:10:00me that I could be in this place, play basketball, be with a great team, a great coach, this up and coming program, learn so much, and then also have these opportunities with the ocean so nearby. That was always there. Back to your question with schooling and my interest in psychology, when I worked with the Dolphin Research Center they said you can major in anything, psychology or theater or anything like that, but you need to have a science somewhere in there, either biology, zoology, so I did psychology with a minor of zoology. I guess the end of that story is that, and it's a beautiful end. Lots of people are like that's kind of sad. But I look at it it's so wonderful. I had an opportunity to interview for a Sea World position. Not Sea World. It was the animal kingdom for Disney. They were just opening it. They came and did this big 00:11:00interview process here on campus and out of 3,000 applicants they offered me the job. It was incredible.

But then when it came down to is this good for you? You would be great for us. I decided that it wasn't the best thing for me at the time because I actually had just gotten married, which was very exciting. This was the summer between my junior and senior year at Oregon State. Just getting married and then they said you'll move to Florida. This is what it's going to look like. As all of those details started unraveling it became very clear to me that I wasn't going to leave my husband. I know there are people who choose to do that and they do fine and they do great. I just knew that that was going to be hard for us, because he was still in school as well. We just decided to say no. We made that decision 00:12:00together. Closed that chapter, it felt. Although I will leave the caveat that my kids, and I'm sure I'll talk about them, but after they're all grown and I'm an empty nester I kind of think about going back and doing either dog training or something, getting back into it. It's very natural for me. It just feels just so fun just the training principles and everything. Anyway, that chapter might open up again someday, but I said no to Disney. They were like what? I mean they couldn't believe that someone was going to turn it down, but it was just the best thing.

NM: That's super cool. You mentioned you went to a smaller school you said? How do you think that shaped you as well? Because I know I went to a smaller school, too, and a lot of times I feel super lucky that I did.

MS: Totally, yeah. Gosh there's so much there. I feel like at a smaller school you maybe realize that you matter and my daughter's at CHS and it's just a huge school and I think that she's received, she already has sort of, she's on that on-ramp already of she played varsity volleyball already so she's already sort of someone that all the teachers know. But I feel like at a bigger school it's easier to get lost and it's easier to feel anonymous and at a smaller school that everybody knows everybody and you're sitting in your class and there's not one person in the room that doesn't know where your truck was parked on Friday night at the football game. You know what I mean?

NM: Exactly.

MS: Everybody knows that everybody else is doing and I think there's power to that because I know some teenagers these days they have these issues where they 00:14:00feel like they don't matter or what they say doesn't matter, what they do-and it just really does even if that falsehood is there that you don't matter. I don't know that's just the thing that's coming to mind is just the care and concern from the teachers was incredible. The support from community as I was even deciding where to go, where to commit to, that was pretty cool. It was just a giant family.

NM: Definitely. Was there before Oregon State, so like in high school or AAU, was there one person or moment you could talk about maybe that was super inspiring for you in terms of basketball? Like a coach you had or like a certain moment, I don't know. Anything. Or a teammate even?

MS: I mean I think my, so I had again, an incredible opportunity to spend a lot 00:15:00of time with my coach, my varsity basketball coach, because he was the athletic director. He actually took that role, I've since learned, so that he could have this opportunity, which I was blown away. As a kid, you're like la, la, la, la this is all happening, where people actually were very intentional in supporting me and there were, actually, our team was very, very good. We had a number of really good athletes. He wanted to really support us but the thing that started happening is that during my study hall period he, you know, signed me up as his assistant or something so I could go and hang out with him in his office. I would come in and he would just have this stack of the letters, you know. Back then it was faxes, which is really weird and letters and there were some phone 00:16:00calls at some point but really it was this paper way that they recruited and we would go through the letters together. He would ask me questions, like do you want to be a big fish in a small pond or a small fish in a big pond? Just asking me, helping me know myself more. My parents had a huge role in that too, of course, but I feel like that really was good for me, very, very good for me. That would've been like every other day of the three more years of my high school, probably sophomore, junior, and senior year that I got to spend with him. That was pretty incredible. He really did have this mindset of helping me launch, just wanting to get me where I wanted to go and where I was meant to be.

NM: That's awesome.

MS: Yeah, pretty awesome.

NM: Now, a little bit more about Oregon State. What were the years that you 00:17:00attended Oregon State?

MS: I came in the fall of '99 and then I graduated basketball in '03. But I did five years of school. I do not have my masters. I wish I would've talked to my advisor about that, but anyway. They're like oh you have five years let's spread it out. I did five years of school. Graduated, walked in the stadium in '04 with my husband.

NM: That's so awesome. What was your maiden name so when you played here what was your name?

MS: Michelle Estelle.

NM: Michelle Estelle. Awesome.

MS: Then, my senior year it was Michelle Smith.

NM: That's super cool. I didn't realize you'd gotten married during.

MS: That was kind of like a trend. It wasn't something that I came in going oh I can get married. I didn't come in as a freshman thinking that but there were, when I was a freshman, there was a married woman. She was married to a guy on the men's team. They're from Lithuania. I think they were married before they 00:18:00came, actually, and they were both really great athletes. The following year another teammate got married. It was kind of like a little bit of a trend. Again, not like any of us were purposefully setting out to do that, but just for whatever reason it was happening.

NM: Did you notice any difference, or do you think that impacted your college experience at all?

MS: Yeah, I think so. I think I finally had someone there that I just totally let into all of the tumultuous times, you know. I also got to share all of the awesome, all of the great things. I think what I think about when I think about the support he gave me was more about I could cry on his shoulder if I needed to or whatever after a tough loss. He also helped support me to make sure I was 00:19:00getting to where I needed to go. At that time you're an adult and when you're an athlete you're really responsible and you're just authentically in every moment. You're in the classroom. You're in there. When you're on the court you're there. That's who I was already. I think it just really enhanced it. I think it was awesome. We laugh now about all the time that we got to spend together, because then we thought I never see you. We always complained about it but now I can see that we were actually together all the time. We had so much time. We would go to lunch together.

NM: For sure. How did you guys meet?

MS: Well, I met him at first my freshman year because actually two of his, the set of twins that went to his high school, they came and played here. I was at 00:20:00their house over Christmas break when the dorms closed, how you have to move out and find a spot for a little bit because the athletes are still here. The basketball team is still here. Anyway, I was staying with them and getting to know them more and stuff and he came over. I met him briefly then and I remember thinking he's really cute. Later I saw him just from afar at our church and then yet again like later he became a practice player. That was really short-lived because then we got together and they coach Judy Spoelstra, that was my head coach, she was like, yeah we can't do this. That was a rule from the beginning. We knew. He knew what he was giving up to date me.

NM: That's super funny.

MS: It was really fun.

NM: Do you notice having stayed in Corvallis, do you notice any big differences 00:21:00around campus or just with Oregon State from when you went here to now?

MS: The very first thing I can say, this is really funny, is that when coach Judy Spoelstra came to my house for her official visit to our home, she brought these big poster boards. I'll just never forget, wow this is like a presentation. This is a big deal. In our farmhouse living room she's pulling out all these amazing presentation materials and it was drawings, artist renderings, of the basketball center that was going to be built. We're doing the funding all that's happening right now and this should be built during Michelle's time, yada, yada. So, wow, you know? My mom, wow, that'll be so nice. When I played it 00:22:00was never built. It was never built. I think you know at some point that campaign got, okay, well let's wait on that. Then seeing it built now and actually I get to come in there and Scott has been so, he's so, your coach is amazing. I love him and coach Eli.

Just all the coaches are so welcoming and so there's been different times a former teammate of I, Mandy Close, who's Mandy Kavanaugh now. She used to coach, too. She was an assistant for a while. She would be like hey let's play. We would go in there and play with a number of-we're all almost former athletes, a couple football players from different universities. Well, my husband, who actually rode for a year as well, so he's technically in the varsity OSU club or 00:23:00whatever, and another track gal from Utah State, we all would just come in there and play. I've gotten to enjoy it and I still laugh about the history of that for me. I knew about this a long time, like 10 years, before it was even anything. That's the biggest thing, I think, when I think about what's changed. It's like, ah that's so nice that you guys have that space, because actually may kids have taken lessons on the court, too, and so that's so nice. Beautiful. Campus I feel like there's just so many new buildings and it feels like it's always, we're always progressing to the next level, the newest technologies in these classrooms. What's the one with the round-I did go in there. I can't 00:24:00remember what that building's called... it's behind the new Austin Hall. Is it called student? Not student experience center. I do love that, though, the spiral staircase. There's another, I should remember, it's a big auditorium that's like 360.

NM: I know. I know some of my teammates have had classes in there.

MS: Yeah. It's beautiful.

NM: I haven't had any.

MS: That is so cool. I've brought my kids to campus their whole lives because I just bleed orange and black, so they are so Oregon State. I would bring them. They would scooter around on the quad and stuff when they were little. I actually wish they would still do that. I feel like campus is still really nostalgic. The staircase in the middle of the MU is a special place for me.

The piano rooms in the MU down by the ballroom, I used to go in there and take 00:25:00naps. I did over the course of the years here, I don't know how long ago that was, I feel like it was just maybe 4 or 5 years ago, I was taking piano lessons, and so I was like-and I was teaching on campus-I was like I'm going to go check out a piano room and practice my songs and so I did that. It was just kind of cool. I used to sleep in here and now I'm playing. It's a good place to take a nap if you need one.

NM: Good to know. That's so funny. That's awesome. And what about Corvallis in general, any differences there?

MS: It's different as a parent. My kids, my daughter's 14. She's a Ninth grader. Then I have a seventh-grader who's 12, that's Asher. So it's Ella and Asher, and then Nox is a fourth grader at Hoover Elementary and so it's different. I see Corvallis very different. I see how as a college student you feel like it's big 00:26:00and it can feel like you don't know everybody but I feel like as a parent it's very small, because really all of us are connected through sports, through clubs, or something with these kids. Anywhere I go to any kid event, it might be an arts night or it might be a basketball game or be at Timberhill Athletic Club, you know so many people. I feels like a small town and I love that. I love that people come also maybe hindsight's 20/20, but it's such a melting pot. People come into town to do work for university or HP or the hospital and they're maybe here for 5 or 10 years and then they launch back out. I feel like Corvallis is kind of like an airport in that way. It's kind of like people come in and it's hard to say goodbye to people but it's also just exciting that we've 00:27:00got friends in Indonesia. We have friends in Hawaii. I just visited my friend in Texas who she was, her husband was part of the football staff here a number of years ago. We've just remained good friends and with today's social media and technology we're all still really close.

NM: That's super cool. That's awesome. What about while you were here in college the social life. What were some other-outside of basketball-what were some other things you liked to do here for fun?

MS: That's really funny because I remember reading that question and it didn't come to mind, but now there's something really funny coming to mind. When I was in Poling Hall that was a really fun social time, because did you stay in a dorm?

NM: Yeah. I transferred, so I stayed in a dorm at a different school, but yeah.

MS: The dorm life, it was interesting. There were some gymnasts down the hall. 00:28:00There was lots of computer science majors around us and it was just interesting. You met people that you weren't like. You know what I mean? You had to figure out how to cross those borders and stuff. It was just fun. I ended up being president of Poling Hall when I was there. I was senior class president. I looked for leadership opportunities and so it was open and I asked a lot of questions and they were like, you really don't have to do anything. I was like, okay, I will be president. At this tiny little meeting they voted me in. It was funny. I instituted, I don't know if it was twice a week, but it had to be at least once a week, we had karaoke nights in the bottom lounge and we did that a lot and we did it really well. It was just that's just really funny. That was a 00:29:00big social thing for me. It was super fun to grab the microphone, act really silly, and just go for it. I think also socially I'm really now being here this long after school too I've been a part of the same church the whole time. During school, you know I would go to prayer meetings or to whatever it is. It's a non-denominational church and so it was just all about spiritual family and there's a lot of those people I met my freshman year that I'm still really close with and that's really awesome because they also are such a support network and just through having babies too, when a new mom has babies sometimes people bring food and so they did that. That kind of stuff. It's really, really cool.

I love just gathering together over food. That's just one of my favorite things 00:30:00to do.

NM: That's so awesome. Now maybe talking a little bit more about basketball here, you mentioned a little bit about it, but position you played? Some things you thought were strengths and weaknesses? Sort of what your daily life looked like, too, as a student athlete?

MS: Yeah, let's see. I was a 3/4. I played both guard and post. A lot of the plays we ran we only really needed one solid post, you know? Tree in the center. She was. I played 3 and 4. I would say my strengths were rebounding, three point shooting. I was the strongest girl on our team and I, if you're watching, it's okay I'm just going to say it, I was the strongest girl on our team. I always 00:31:00really worked hard in the weight room. I really, really wanted to work hard in the weight room. That was super fun for me. I would say weaknesses-quickness was a weakness, which was hard as a guard, right? That was really hard. I mean I think that's overall that bleeds into a lot of areas, if I could just say, quickness. Yes, I'm admitting it, I wasn't very quick.

Anyway, that was hard but I would say that I was a role-player and it really taught me so much because being in high school and like I said even starting freshman year, the accolades and the media just blowing me up, blowing me up, so I came with a big head and with this notion that I was going to get to shoot and I was going to get to come off the screens and I was going to get to do all that. I got put in my place in what, like I said, I had this journey of faith, 00:32:00too, and it showed me I was really humbled, which I think just put me in just this place where I became a way better, well-rounded person. I fell off the shelf of my pride and figured out to make my teammates look really good. I was the best screener. I was the best rebounder and that can be hard to settle into, too, because you have to decide I'm okay with filling this role and I think that maybe, you know as I talked about earlier, the hard things, I think that was part of needing to cry on my husband's shoulder. Just the pain of losing that, you know everybody wants to be-you want to be the star. Who doesn't want to be the star? I could still be the Dennis Rodman, you know what I mean? I found that 00:33:00niche and the other thing that I think was hard about that is that our coaching staff did change a lot throughout my years. The head coach stayed the whole time but a lot of the assistants went in and out. That was hard because you've got these people who leading your charge and of course my head coach always had her vision for me, but those assistants who are really the troops on the ground in some sense is they kept changing and so for them to have a vision for you and where you could go or what you could do, that was hard. Because I think some of that was getting lost in the fog of the switching around. I think if I could go back and do more as a player, I think I would be more assertive about that kind of stuff and about going to coach and saying hey what if I work on this? How 00:34:00would that look for you? Would that help us? Would that enable me to get a few more three-point shots? I think being a humble role-player was actually what I would say what God wanted for me. It was pretty cool, pretty cool.

NM: That's awesome. That's super cool.

MS: What was the last part of the question? I forget what else you said.

NM: Maybe what your sort of daily life looked like, practice, how long it was, weights, when those were, stuff like that?

MS: I have an interesting opinion on this and it's my opinion, and all of this is my opinion, I would say that you guys have in the modern theories of sports and exercise science, I feel like you guys have much more of a greater grasp on the just the weight that it bears of, what's the word I'm looking for, the 00:35:00recovery time.

I think recovery, a lot of science has gone into what that is and what it does and the benefits of it. I think you guys, your staff, from the top to the bottom, have a greater grasp on how people need to recover. I feel like we, so the first thing was our weight trainer was the main football weight trainer. I squatted like 300 pounds. I mean, a lot. That's a lot.

NM: Yeah.

MS: I don't know if that's going to make me quick. Those were some of the things, juxtapositions, that were happening. Again, hindsight's 20/20. I feel like it could've been better for us, because as you're asking about our daily life, I feel like we just didn't have very much rest time and we did have days off but typically if we lost and even if it was a close, hard loss, we didn't 00:36:00get our day off. We would have to go in and do some work. I get that, too. I mean there's this tension there of rest, work, learn, watch. We watched a lot of film and so that was all really good. A day in the life would be, so, let's say it's a prayer meeting day because I feel like I don't know how I did this, because I would go to a 7:00 a.m. prayer meeting at the MU. I lived, this was before I was married, I lived across from the stadium in these little apartments just across from the stadium right across western. I would either ride my bike or run over to the MU for prayer. Then I would go to, and I always hated that we had all of our stuff in the afternoons, but I would do class from like 8:30 or 00:37:00whatever, 8:00, until 11:00 and then I would go get treatment. I'd go straight to the training room and then from the training room you're in there for a while like swim and ice. Sometimes I had knee issues and low back issues, like SI problems, probably from all the rebounding, all the jarring behind you. I did the whirlpool a lot, the cold, the ice bath. I would do that. Then get suited up and go to weights and that was like 2 ½ hours.

NM: Oh my gosh.

MS: Like long, long weights.

NM: Holy cow, yeah.

MS: Then we'd come back and watch film while we ate like our, we got to eat a protein bar, which I'm still hooked on now. They got me now. We would eat our 00:38:00protein bar while we watched film and then we'd go up and practice for like 3 or 4 hours sometimes. It was really long. Then we would go to training table as a team, because by that time it's like 6:00, then go home and hopefully start studying by like 8:00 or so.

NM: Wow.

MS: Yeah. It was lots of long days. Long, long days. I felt like all of that stuff for me was literally powered by that prayer meeting at the very beginning.

NM: Oh, yeah.

MS: It was a long day.

NM: For sure.

MS: But so rewarding. I mean, so good. Totally worth it.

NM: Definitely. That's so awesome. Let's see what would you say were the best parts and the worst parts of being a student athlete.

MS: Well, some of it I've sort of mentioned. The things that were hard, I think.

NM: Definitely, yeah.

MS: I think the best parts were just the opportunities. I know one of your questions was about being a female and if that felt different. I just really thought about that a lot and I didn't feel discriminated against.

NM: That's awesome.

MS: I feel like we, even our SAC, our president was a female, our vice president was a male. I was treasurer, and I just felt like that room there was never a time when the women didn't have a voice. I also felt like with people like Marianne around she just wasn't going to ever let someone say a woman can't do that or whatever. She was always an advocate, even when I played but even now I know her and she's just so awesome.

I never felt discriminated against as far as being a girl. This campus I felt 00:40:00like is really progressive and you know we were always looked at as leaders when we were on campus as athletes and I wore that badge proudly, you know? I think the hard things about being a student athlete, I've kind of mentioned. There were so many good things. Just the opportunities. The professors almost that small school feel again. The professors, I mean I would always at the beginning of the term I would introduce myself because I wasn't sure how much I was going to miss or whatnot, especially winter term and fall term, but I feel like they already were so accommodating and already wanted to, they would already know I'm going to meet this kid. This is an athlete, and I feel like everybody was really, really wonderful. I think all of the awesome trips. That was part of why 00:41:00I chose, at that time it was the PAC-10, because we got to take so many amazing trips. We went to France and did a tour. We did Hawaii. We only went to Hawaii once out of my four years and I know now you guys go like every year. I'm waiting for the alumni invitation. I think you need an alumni counselor or something.

NM: [Laughs] yeah.

MS: I feel like there's just endless benefits just this daily chipping away at this, it's like you're being carved. All of the bad stuff's just being chipped off and when you get squeezed and when you get pressed as an athlete, because you do. There's this, you got to get better, you got to get better at this. I feel like that is just so valuable. Post-athletics into the world of mothering 00:42:00or in the world of business, wherever you're going to be working professionally, all of it's just so good, so good.

NM: For sure. Yeah. I agree. Let's see-how about some, maybe some teammates you had while you were here or coaches, like Judy, just a little bit more about them, some who were super-I know you talked about Mandy, too. Some people who were just super influential while you were here, too, in basketball.

MS: Totally, yeah. When I was a freshman of course those seniors always will leave an imprint on you. Sissel Pierce, Reda Pertains, let's see, Syesha Thomas, I'm going to forget so many names I should remember. The Wiersma twins, that's the ones that were from my husband's high school. They were from Crater High 00:43:00School. Felicia Ragland, of course. The Wiersma twins and Felicia were sophomores when I came in as a freshman. The Wiersma twins ended up transferring, but they're amazing. I've actually continued to keep up with them a little bit. I totally keep up with Phee, Ericka Cook Brosterhous also got married. She married a baseball player. We're still in contact. Hollye Holbrook, she was one year under me. Also Brina Chaney was one year under me. They were just amazing. I was really great friends with them. I'm going to forget so many names. So many amazing people. I think also some of the people who really impacted me were the walk-ons, because the walk-ons were the ones who, because there were days that I was just-you know I selfishly thought to myself I am 00:44:00getting something in return for this on a really hard day. I remember just thinking like these girls are so amazing. There's one that I remember her name, Marissa Kneel, and she I think we're still friends on Facebook, she has one or two kids. All of us I think now what's fun is we keep up and we see each other's kids growing up and we see each other as a mom and it's really fun to see that. I think the thing that is hard for us women to keep with each other is that our names change, and so sometimes I'm remembering a girl named Karen and I don't know her, I'm trying to remember her maiden name or her married name. She has two little boys. Anyway, there's so many. There's so many.

I hope that we can get more of them to come back for alumni events, because it's 00:45:00still kind of been the ones that are above us, older than us, that are really making up the bulk of those events. Anita Rivera, she is a coach now, too. A lot of them are coaches, which is fun. Which I've been coaching all along and it's been fun just the little boys and little girls teams. There's a few that are, Anita's team might be a high school team, actually. There's a few that are coaching at a little bit higher level.

NM: That's awesome, yeah. Then you mentioned a bunch of the assistant coaches would filter in and out but how was your relationship with Judy, then? How you had her the whole time.

MS: Oh it's so good.

NM: That's good.

MS: Yeah, it's so good. When she left like I went to bat to try to see if she could stay. I was done playing. I was in my fifth year. Anyway, I just, yeah, I 00:46:00love her. She's amazing so when the ladies went to the final four, a bunch of us went and she came and it was really fun. She set this awesome thing up. We were in the Payton Manning steakhouse, like this secret room that he has in Indianapolis. That was really cool. Mandy was there. Brina was there, Fe. It was just the whole gang. Kim Butler, Brittany Nessbaum. Judy we're still, actually she keeps asking if we'll come down and stay with her, so we're trying to figure out if we can-she lives in San Diego now, so we're trying to figure out if we can go down there and visit. Her son, who I nannied for just a short while, he's in high school now. Actually him and my daughter text each other, which is really fun. She's like oh Mom, I got a text from Evan. You know it's just funny.

NM: That's so funny. That's super awesome. Let's see what were your travel plans like for basketball at the time? Like Plane, did you ever do charter flights? Was it always commercial? Did you ever bus to any certain places?

MS: Yeah, we bussed occasionally. We would bus to Seattle.

NM: That makes sense.

MS: I feel like we did that once or twice. Mostly we flew commercial. Maybe we had a charter plane. I'm trying to remember if we ever had one for like W-three out of my four years we went to WNIT. I feel like we had some successful seasons. I feel like we did maybe one time had a charter flight, but it was mostly commercial. I remember having to bus from Seattle to Pullman. That I always hated. I then I always hated flying to Pullman because it was always like 00:48:00[wavy gesture].

NM: Yeah.

MS: You know? Actually this is a funny tidbit, but whenever we flew to Pullman they would yell, hey Mimi pray for us. Because they called me Mimi. I would have to pray over the whole thing, airplane, really loud because everybody was scared. Because it was just woo, and so I would be the one called on to pray.

NM: That's so funny. And what would you say were some of your biggest takeaways from competing?

MS: I think I've mentioned a lot of it, but I think you know when I think about that question it's like what do I hope my kids have or emulate? I think I want them to be gritty and I think I want them to be able to absorb a criticism and not have it rock their world, but let them actually make them better, you know?

NM: For sure.

MS: Be able to see, because you know we all have blind spots too. I think as an athlete you know when you're watching film you're constantly seeing what are those blind spots. You don't realize that you're going over here but you really are every time, or whatever. There goes that left hand again, or whatever it is. I hope that my kids can be really coachable and I hope that they can be confident in who they are just being able to journey through even if they don't win a championship or something but know that all of that hard work wasn't for nothing, you know? You learned so many personal things. You learned things as a team.

NM: Yeah, definitely.

MS: I guess it's about the journey, not the destination.

NM: I love that, yes. Then you've mentioned some of these already, but are there 00:50:00any differences you notice with the basketball program now. I know you went to the alumni night game. I know you mentioned some as far as recovery time. The improvements of that. The basketball center, but are there some other differences that you've noticed from when you played here?

MS: I don't know. I see it all in rose-colored glasses. I really do. I see your coaching staff is so wonderful. I know a lot of them personally, Coach Rueck and his wife go to my church. I just I know their kids. I feel like I see so much positive energy.

NM: For sure.

MS: Something that's really cool, you're reminding me, is that now and Marianne told me a year before it was going to happen, but that they were going to replace the lights and stuff. That is so fun to be able to turn the lights off 00:51:00and have that atmosphere. That's really fun. It doesn't feel like an old, old building anymore. It was cool that it did before, kind of, but, you know? I just I see a lot of good things. I don't know.

NM: For sure. Then what made you want to stay in Corvallis after college?

MS: Well, like I said I got married before I was actually done and then yeah we were kind of at this point where we were like we could go anywhere, we could do anything, but we were very intertwined with our spiritual family and just had seen the great fruit from that. Just doing life with people because we've seen and now even more so people leave and it's kind of this idea that grass is 00:52:00greener on the other side or something. We felt like we could be anywhere but why not be here. Do you know what I mean? We love Corvallis. We both chose to come to Oregon State and we had great opportunities here. We had great relationships. Relationship is really the bottom line for us really. We felt like let's stay close in these relationships.

NM: Definitely. I know you've mentioned your faith is super important to you. Do you have any other stories from your church or how your faith life impacted your time here?

MS: Yeah, I have probably way too much for the time that we have. I have a lot of stories. One thing that's coming to mind is that this, at my church there's at different times there's this moment where someone might feel like they have 00:53:00something-it's not like, how do I want to say? It's not like a fortune teller. It's not like a-it's kind of this encouragement that this person feels might be literally from God. Sometimes I get it too. It's just like a thought and call it maybe a word of knowledge or something. This woman told me my senior year she had been really following our team, that's also what's cool. A lot of people at my church would come to the games and stuff. Small town atmosphere. A lot of them watched, they could see my journey and my role and how that looked and everything. She just said to me, I'm not going to cry, she said you're a spoke in the wheel and without that spoke the wheel falls and a lot of the stuff you're needed, you're valuable and that was all-yes, yes, I'll take it. She also 00:54:00said I feel like there's just going to come a point when you're going to be, you've been really humbled and you're going to be lifted up. I didn't know what that was going to mean, but then my last home game, so we played the Washington schools our last home weekend, and my dad and my brother came to watch and my mom usually is who came to watch me just because my dad was always working and my brother was in school or whatever. But my dad and my brother came for that last weekend. That was really special for them to see me play. So we played WSU on Thursday night and I had like 17 points or something. When you're the senior and everybody's passing you the ball, I was like I'm shooting I don't care. I had 17 points and we won.

It was all really good and then when we played UW on Saturday, and I actually 00:55:00don't remember how many, but I want to say 5, but that could be wrong. I made 5 3-pointers, and it just felt like what she said. You're going to be lifted up. Just light's going to shine on you or something like that. And it was really special, but not special that I made all the shots, not special that I had all those points or whatever, what was special to me was that my dad and my brother were there. They got to see me as I was, you know, as a high schooler. That was exciting.

NM: That's super awesome. Then, last few things, how are you still involved with Oregon State?

MS: Oh yeah. Definitely wanted to stay involved. Like I said I'm orange and black through and through. I'm part of the varsity OSU and I started really, I 00:56:00was a board member, so there's two members from every sport represented and so I would go to all the board meetings and then all of a sudden we think Michelle Smith should be our next president. That was a really big deal because I was like I can't do that. One of my big mentors is also Scott Spiegelberg, who played football here and he works in the department. He's so amazing and so he just took me under his wing and he said you can do this. Trust me, you can do this. I got to lead the board meetings and do that and it's a term of two years, and so let's see. It wasn't-I'm trying to think when my term was. It was like 2 years ago I think. Alexis Serna took my role over after I was done. He was president elect. That was really exciting and I feel like it has-so what happens is you remain a varsity OSU board member for life after you get done being 00:57:00president. That's a really big honor, that I get to sit in that role for life with the other former presidents. There's like 6 or 7.

NM: That's super cool.

MS: That's awesome. I'm still active with that. With that I get opportunities to be involved on campus as well in the athletic advisory committee which helps advise conference scheduling which fights with the media because of TV scheduling and stuff. When they say women's basketball's going to play 8:30 on a Monday night, we see that way early on and we get to look at, it's just a team of 5 of us that are on that subcommittee, Marianne's there too, and we get to say, well, 80% of the girls have an 8:00 a.m. class on Tuesday morning. We can't 00:58:00let them play Monday night that late, and so we get to decide is that too much for you?

NM: That's so cool.

MS: We will send a request back and say we'd like to have this changed. Sometimes they dismiss us and sometimes they listen. If you've ever had something really rough, it's not my fault. But yeah, so we look at every single sport, though, and so it takes a while. We look through all the calendars, all of the schedules. That's really cool. I get to be a part of that. Just mentoring student athletes. I meet with several student athletes probably once a month. I try to connect with them, just coffee, tea, whatever. Sometimes we talk about faith. Sometimes it's what's next. Sometimes it's transitioning into professional world, whatever it is. Also I guess my day job right now is I'm a PAC instructor, and also instructor for the faculty staff fitness. I teach Pilates and yoga and I just got done teaching basketball up here in Dixon and 00:59:00that's really fun. Because I get to stay involved with the students. I've actually been able to identity and usher in quite a few practice players for you guys too.

NM: That's super cool.

MS: Just because I'll see talent and see hard work and I'm like hey, I think you might be right for this. Are you interested and that kind of stuff. What else? I feel like there's a lot. There's probably other things I'm forgetting because I really want to stay active at Oregon State, so.

NM: That's awesome. Yeah the last thing I was going to ask is just thoughts on the future, sort of if you see yourself staying here and I know you mentioned maybe going back to dog training and stuff like that in the future. Just maybe where you see yourself?

MS: I don't know.

I'm really trying to, I think I do keep God first in my life. There's a ministry 01:00:00there. There's ways that God has put me to have influence and I want to give good time to that, but then my marriage is the next thing and then parent is the third role. Those are the things that get my most attention. Professionally, I actually did work up on campus about a year, well, no it hasn't been a year, actually it ended in September. I had a grant that ran out but I worked at Hallie Ford Center on campus in the College of Public Health and working with kids in classrooms, getting them physically active. That was really exciting too. I kind of wonder if someday maybe I should go get a masters. Maybe I should actually do that since I didn't do it in my 5 years, or just continuing to 01:01:00support my family in the way that I can and so, you know, there's things like I have some ground level things accomplished as far as maybe writing a book someday. There's just some weird talents and giftings that might come out in other ways. Right now everything's all just pretty much about physical fitness and that's really fun. It actually keeps me sane.

NM: That's super cool. Then just anything else you want to say? Or that maybe I didn't ask or left out?

MS: I don't know who will actually watch this, but President Ray was a great influence over me too, and I just want to say thank you to him because he's from Ohio as well. He just always has supported women's basketball in a way that's so important and so valued. I just want to say thank you to him and Scott Spiegelberg, like I mentioned, Marianne, Judy Spoelstra and just all of my 01:02:00awesome teammates. And thank you!

NM: Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much.