Marie Harvey Oral History Interview, February 25, 2020

KATIE SAWTELLE: Today is February 25, 2020. I'm Katie Sawtelle and I'm here with Dr. Marie Harvey in the Women's Building at Oregon State University. To start things off, we're going to ask questions pertaining to your early life, so could you tell us a little bit more about where you were born and where you grew up?

MARIE HARVEY: Yes, I was born in Vancouver, Washington, but when I was about four we moved to Oregon and to rural Oregon outside of Prineville. It was in Eastern Oregon between Mitchell and Fossil, for those of you who know Oregon. It was a big, huge ranch. I lived on a ranch about 25,000 acre ranch, and it was just mainly alfalfas and sagebrush and cattle. My early years were in a very 00:01:00rural area. I attended a one-room schoolhouse. It had 8 grades, one teacher, and 10 students. It was quite an experience. No indoor plumbing. We had two outhouses. That was my earlier early years. We moved then to the Willamette Valley outside of Salem between Independence and Salem and had a, what we called a truck farm, which is we grew vegetables. That's where I spent my years of going on to high school. I went to high school in Salem. Originally when we first moved I was again in a rural school where we had two rooms. It was a little bit bigger, two teachers. But it was also very rural and so clearly all 00:02:00that upbringing made a bit impact on me and I think has influenced my life. Growing up on a farm and a ranch and I was born into a family where there were 4 daughters. My dad being a rancher and a farmer he didn't have any sons, so we did not learn gender roles and we learned how to do everything. On the ranch we churned butter and made bread and did whatever the domestic chores needing done but we also baled hay, rode horses, and worked the roundup. Whatever you needed. The same thing with the farm. What that meant was that I didn't realize that girls were different than boys and that girls had to do certain things and 00:03:00couldn't do other things. I never got that and I think that served me well. I never ever felt that I couldn't do what I wanted to do because I was a girl, or a woman. That has carried me forward. The other part of that that has carried me forward was it was very poor, ranching and farming. I saw the hard work of my parents and that idea as I went forward because I ultimately became a social worker, this idea that poor people only if they would work harder or if they would pull themselves up by their bootstraps they could make it, and that wasn't true. I knew that early on. Those were good lessons I learned very early. I said enough of that.

KS: That was perfect.

MH: Okay.

KS: You talked a little bit on this about your father and I guess your mother, 00:04:00too, not enforcing gender roles, but could you maybe go a little bit more into detail about what was your family dynamic like?

MH: We were, my memory is it was mainly when we were at the ranch and then on the farm. We were raised very close. We were a close family, even today. My parents are no longer living but I'm very close to my sisters. We were close-knit. We worked together as a unit because we had to on a farm and a ranch. We were expected to contribute to helping with the house as well as the farm, and so clearly we felt a very, I would say, united as a family.

My parents were very loving and we were very poor but that didn't mean we weren't well taken care of. I think I was probably bless to have a very good childhood. It wasn't perfect. They're never perfect. As I think about it, the entire, as I've heard other stories, I think I was blessed with my upbringing.

KS: I'm glad to hear that. Did you have any specific interests growing up?

MH: You know, not in particular. I didn't have a real hobby. We had 4H on the ranch and on the farm. I love animals, always, but I never was wanting to show animals or have my own whatever. We rode horses on the ranch, we had to. That was one of the ways we got around, but I've never been a horse lover. As a 00:06:00matter of fact today when people want to go ride horses for recreation or fun, I'm like you're kidding right? I have no desire to go ride a horse. I read a lot. I liked reading. When we lived on the ranch we had no radio, no television, so we played games: Chinese checkers and cards games. As a family we entertained ourselves, but I personally didn't have any major passion as a kid and a sort of hobby I liked.

KS: You mentioned going to a really small school and you switched schools, am I correct?

MH: Yeah.

KS: What grade were you when you switched?

MH: When I did my elementary school, both of them were in these rural schools. 00:07:00One was a one-room and one was a two-room, but when we moved to the Willamette Valley then I was bussed into junior high school, that was what we called it back then. It was middle school. Then I was bussed into Salem and I went to a fairly large junior high school and then ultimately bussed into South Salem High School, so I went to a very large high school. Quickly moved out of the little teeny school to doing both my junior high and high school in a fairly large school.

KS: What was your high school experience like at South Salem?

MH: Yes, well, you know it was, again, I enjoyed it. I was excited about learning. I always liked learning. I'm passionate about learning. You asked even 00:08:00as a kid, I liked reading. I liked learning and I was happy to be in a bigger school and be exposed to different teachers and also to get to meet lots of different fellow students. I worked hard. I did well. I was in the honor's club. I was a good student. That's part of I think being raised with discipline as a farmer. You're disciplined and my parents expected I would be a good student and just did work hard and we were good students, all four of us. I liked high school. I participated in a lot of the-I was a cheerleader [laughs]. That was really the only athletic thing you could do back then. I was very athletic. I think by working on the farm I just was used to being, you know doing physical 00:09:00labor and doing physical things and so we didn't have any kind of girls sports. This was back in the '60s. We didn't, so cheerleading was back then kind of like, it isn't like it is today but we did work out every day. I really did enjoy that part, because I got my physical exercise in.

KS: Was there any dress code in high school or any, I guess, strange rules only applied to the female students?

MH: Well, we couldn't wear pants. You had to wear skirts and dresses. When I was a cheerleader we had our cheerleading outfits.

We had to get on our knees and have our skirts touch the floor. That means they're to your knee or below there. Yeah, that was back then.

KS: Did anybody rebel against those norms about not wearing pants and-?

MH: Not in high school, but I'll tell you a story as we get into college.

KS: Okay.

MH: It was what was expected. I think the boys had dress codes too. I can't remember exactly what those were about, but it was a different era, a different time than today.

KS: Moving on to university, did anybody specific influence your decision to 00:11:00attend college?

MH: Probably my parents and my older sister. My parents actually started college but then my dad was drafted and went into World War II and they both dropped out at that time, so they never finished college. They went for a year or two, and they really believed in education and they wanted us to go too. My older sister, she was in college, and I think I just assumed I would be going to college. I wanted to go to college. I would say clearly it was my mother and my father and my sister that motivated me. I have to say that my experience in high school with the counselors, advisors, they did not really encourage me very much. I 00:12:00don't know if it's because I was a woman or if it was because I was poor. I think early on I could feel discrimination because of growing up kind of what you might say the other side of the tracks, because it was unusual if you were excelling and doing well in your academics, which I did, that they didn't encourage me that much to go on to college. I didn't need it because I was going to go anyway and I decided I wanted to go to the University of Puget Sound because it was a lot like Willamette and I knew what Willamette looked like, because I had been in Salem and I wanted a small college because I felt I would excel better not going to a big university like Oregon State or University of Oregon, but it was a private school, and we didn't have money. I applied for scholarships and I applied for work study. I also applied to the Oregon schools 00:13:00as well, so I could get in. It turned out that I was able to get scholarship and work study and it would pretty much equal if I'd gone to one of the state schools, so I could afford it. I was really motivated and that's where I wanted to go.

KS: What was your overall college experience like? Were you involved in any Greek life? What was your social life like?

MH: [Laughs] Yeah, so that's kind of where I came of age, I would say. I think in high school I was just doing what I was supposed to do and I was a goody two shoes, so to speak. When I got to college it was very much a time when it was in the '60s. It was the '60s, so I started in the fall of 1965. I was definitely, 00:14:00it was, again, you had to wear skirts and dresses. Saturday mornings you could wear slacks, pants, whatever you wanted to call them. That's the only time. It was still very regimented. Yes, Greek life was alive and well. I did join a sorority, and about a year into that I realized that I did not want to be in a sorority. I didn't like it. I felt it was very discriminating and stifling. By then I was, like I said, I was evolving into my own self and not okay with the fact that there were very, it was very, you know, very centric about white, 00:15:00beautiful women.

I thought that was not appropriate and I didn't want to be a part of it. I got out of that. I also, and I tell this story because I think it really reflects the piece I began to understand that there is discrimination, too, between men and women, although, like I said I never have felt that I couldn't do everything a man could do, the story I remember and I tell is that we lived in dormitories and we had curfews and that curfew was at 10:00 at night. This was weekdays, not on the weekends. You had to be in the dorm. This is 1965-66. There's no internet. There's no computers. There's not even Xerox machines, or copy 00:16:00machines. When you needed to study, you had to be in the library. That's where the journals were. You had to go to the library and you couldn't check journals out, so read them and take notes from them. The library was open until 12:00 and we had to be in the dorm by 10:00, but the men could stay in the library. That was really disturbing to me because I was on a scholarship and if I didn't make my grades, I wouldn't keep my scholarship and then I wouldn't be able to go on. That's an example of where I became very rebellious, feeling that it was unfair that we had to be in the dorms but the men did not. If it was, frankly, to help us behave as women and not have sex with men because we might stay out late. If we wanted to have sex with me we'd have it before 10:00. What made everybody 00:17:00ever think-[laughs]. I think I definitely started cutting up and cutting out and one of the things I did is I was on the basement floor of our dormitory where I could open my window and people could come in, so I would let people-people knew that if they stayed out late and needed to sneak in, I would let them in.

KS: Good for you.

MH: But I got caught.

KS: Darn it!

MH: Yeah, I did get caught. Then I got grounded, so.

KS: If I remember correctly, you majored in European history and minored in psychology?

MH: That's right! Good memory.

KS: Did you ever feel pressured to major in a more traditional female field during that time, such as home economics or secretarial science?

MH: Part of what I was going to do-so, no. But, what I was going to do with my 00:18:00European history was probably teach, which is more of a traditional female-so I had planned to do my student teaching and get my certificate for teaching my senior year and that was how I would probably try to find a job. Instead, I went to Europe. I studied in Europe a year and I didn't do student teaching. Instead I studied in Europe. I was perfect because, with my European history major, but then I got exposed to art and music and more history and because it was affiliated with UPS, my scholarships and my work study all applied, and so I had this amazing professor who wanted me to go to study abroad and he pulled strings 00:19:00to get me there. I know he did. He never told me what all he did, but I couldn't have afforded it on my own, so he made things happen. I didn't do that, instead I went to Europe and studied a year, my senior year.

KS: Where did you study in Europe?

MH: Yeah, I studied in Vienna and in Rome.

KS: Oh my goodness.

MH: Yeah, it was another major-I would say that was, again, a turning point where I absolutely grew up and became aware of this wonderful world. I grew up in rural Oregon. You don't have a lot of exposure to art, music, culture, diversity, and there it was. I took it in and I was just elated about learning all about life and, it did, it changed my life.

Again, also I think it just made me feel even more independent and confident 00:20:00that I could go and do and be what I wanted to be, because I was in Europe on my own. I was with a group but you're kind of on your own. Anyway, it was a life-changer.

KS: Were the cultural norms in America at that time, such as women not allowed to pants or that frowned upon, was that also-

MH: In Europe?

KS: Yeah.

MH: By then I was a senior we're moving now, so things are changing fast even in the States now in the '60, because women are rebelling. I think what was more important for me when I was in Europe was to be respectful of the cultures where I lived and to dress or behave, so-yes, women in Vienna, I remember very clearly wore, they didn't wear a lot of pants. They were more likely to dress in skirts. It was cold, so I sometimes would wear pants because it was just cold. It was a 00:21:00different culture, a different era. I didn't experience as much of the gender differences when I was traveling. It was more of the cultural differences I was experiencing.

KS: Did you feel like your professors treated you the same as your male counterparts?

MH: Some and others not necessarily. Again I think it's interesting that I was never encouraged by any professor in my undergraduate to go on to graduate school. Nobody. Now not a lot of, well, yes women did-so, I don't know why. I was a good student, again, it wasn't that. My colleagues, my male colleagues were encouraged, oftentimes in European history they would be maybe encouraged to go on to maybe law school. But, no, I wasn't encouraged. I suppose, and it 00:22:00could be maybe I just didn't present myself as somebody who would excel in graduate school. It also could be that I was over doing my senior year abroad so I wasn't exposed to a lot of faculty on campus then. I'm not sure I could blame that on so much, but no, I didn't get a lot of encouragement to go to graduate school, which I think was partly the gender issue and in those days a lot of women did get their degrees and I remember the sorority part was your senior also getting your diamond ring and get married. So, we were always celebrating the-so, I think that was the era but it was changing. But still was the time that women went to college to find their husbands. I didn't find one [laughs].

KS: It's going to be the same for me [laughs]. In engineering majors it tends to 00:23:00be mostly male, how was your major like? Was a good mix? Or mostly female, mostly male?

MH: That's a good-I'm trying to remember. I think European history as more male than female, as I remember. We didn't have engineering there. I think that's actually changing, though, a lot isn't it?

KS: Yeah, it is.

MH: Yeah, so that's good.

KS: Did you have to live in a dorm all three years that you were attending Puget Sound, not including the studying abroad in Europe? Because did some readings in class mentioning how if you were a single woman you would have to live on campus and then if you wanted to live off campus you had to receive permission. Was that similar to your experience?

MH: I think that's true. I'm trying to remember. I always lived on campus, so I never tried not to, except of course my senior year. I can't remember if women could. What I do know is by the time I was a junior they had decided that women could get keys to come in later, so you could get a key and you could go-but you had to get permission from your parents. If your parents agreed, then you could do that. Mind you, you're 20 years old and you're still having to get parental consent. I don't know the answer to that one, because I personally never wanted to live off campus or couldn't afford it, probably.

KS: What did you do after graduating from college? Did you go into work or straight into graduate school?

MH: No, I didn't go on to graduate school because like I said I had never been encouraged and frankly because I never imagined that I would go to graduate school. Yes, I went to work. I came back from Europe, see, I took my senior year, so I came back in the summer after I graduated. I graduated over there. Now I had been in Europe and I wanted to be in a big city, so I decided to go to Los Angeles, for many reasons, but mainly because I had friends that were there. They were going to school and also I had a great aunt who lived there who welcomed me to her home so I could actually find a place to live. I didn't have any money. I hadn't worked yet, so anyway, I went to Los Angeles in the Los 00:26:00Angeles area. I didn't actually live in LA when I first moved there and found a job as a social worker for the LA County Department of Social Services. That was because, as you can imagine with a European history degree and having spent a year in Europe, there weren't people recruiting me for a job. I didn't have a real skill set at all, but I had the psychology minor, so this job as a social worker, because I had the psychology minor if I could pass a test then they would hire me. I took their test and I passed so they hired me. Then I worked for 4 years, and this was in Pomona, California. It was LA County. That was my 00:27:00first job. It was an eye-opener for me. It was quite the-I grew up fast. I would stay another turning, an experience that has forever changed my life. I was in the Aid for Dependent Children section of the Social Service Office and I did interviews with individuals who needed welfare. A lot of what, and this was Aid for Dependent Children, so a lot of the people ho came in were young women who had children, and they turned out to be adolescents and young adults who 00:28:00basically had children before they were ready financially, emotionally, and some of them even biologically. It was really experience of seeing what women having unintended pregnancies, they were probably mis-timed and unwanted, but anyway, that stuck with me, as we go forward with my life. It was so depressing and so hard and so demoralizing because these were beautiful, capable, ambitions in their ways young women who couldn't seem to get out of poverty. I couldn't help them, so I just decided I needed to, what we say in public health, I needed to go upstream. I needed to go upstream and I needed to figure out why these women 00:29:00were getting pregnant or how do I help them not get pregnant, because I can't fix it. That's my beginning of thinking about my career in public health, and particularly in working in unintended pregnancies and HIV prevention. That was my first job. I did it for four years and then I actually decided, so I ended up working with Planned Parenthoods and other clinics that were about preventing pregnancies and dealing with unintended pregnancies and ultimately got a job at the Cal State Fullerton Student Health Center where I was their contraceptive, problem pregnancy counselor.

That was where I landed my next-I stayed there, I don't know how many years I 00:30:00worked there. That was my next, the jobs in between the social work and that one were just minor ones, but that was a major one. That really suited me and worked well and I decided as I was doing that realizing, and then I was invited by the biology department at Cal State Fullerton to teach a human sexuality class because students were coming to see me and I guess students had talked about it was really helpful and so I ended up saying yes. I started teaching this class in the biology department. Mind you, I had a BA in European History and I was teaching a class in biology. I don't think they could do that today. I think you have to have at least a masters to teach. Anyway, I know we do. Yeah, then I started that as well and what I realized was I really liked what I was doing and 00:31:00I didn't have the right credentials. I needed to figure out where to go back and get my schooling. All I could think about at that point, because I didn't know anything about public health, was probably going to medical school. So, I returned while I was working and started taking all of the-can you imagine? I have a BA in European History, I didn't have any of the classes you have to have for medical school. I went back to community college and took, you name it, I took it: physiology, anatomy, biochemistry, yeah I took them all. I actually enjoyed it. I did. It turned out that I was going to do that, but that's just how life is. You just keep-I'm talking to the director of the student health 00:32:00center at Cal State Fullerton who worked for and he's a M.D., but he also has this masters of public health. He was just saying, well, what are you, you're going to school what are you doing? I said well, I'm doing these courses because I want to go to medical school because I'm really excited about helping young women get access to contraception and prevent-he's looking at me and he says, and you're going to go to medical school? I said, well, yeah. He said, that's not why you go to medical school. He said you go to medical school because you're going to treat disease. You want to prevent-he said I don't think you want to go to medical school. I said, maybe I don't. He said you need to go to public health. I have my masters of public health and you need to go get your degrees in public health. That's where you should consider. Check that out, and 00:33:00let me tell you more about it. He became a really good mentor to me and for me. That's how I learned about public health. That was maybe more than you wanted me to say.

KS: No, I love how you go into detail. So, you received your master's and doctorate from UCLA, correct?

MH: Right.

KS: What made you choose to go to UCLA instead of any other California school?

MH: Well, actually that's a good question because I didn't apply to any other California, but I applied to Johns Hopkins-I applied to numerous schools. When I finally knew what I wanted to do... and again the physician in the student health center he was helping me choose what he felt would be good schools, because I wanted reproductive health was my real emphasis. I did get accepted to 00:34:00several, including Johns Hopkins, which is probably where I really wanted to go. But I lived in LA and I had a partner who didn't want to travel, didn't want to leave, had a nice job there. It seemed like, and I liked UCLA and it would be just fine. It just was less disrupting, and I never lived in the east and I understood where Johns Hopkins was was not going to be a pretty easy place to live. Anyway, I chose UCLA and I'm happy for that, actually. It all turned out to be good.

KS: Yeah, it has a great reputation.

MH: I do feel I had great mentors and I think I was really fortunate that way.

I think really if you get a good mentor, especially when you do your Ph.D. 00:35:00that's what matters. I had the same mentor for the MPH and the Ph.D. She's the one who encouraged me to go get a-I wasn't going to get a Ph.D. and she's the one who said oh yeah, you do that too. Anyway.

KS: Could you tell me a little bit more about those two phases of your life, so the MPH and the Ph.D.? Did you participate in any research or were you required to teach during that period?

MH: Yeah, so I went back when I was older. It doesn't seem older now, but I think I was 29 when I returned to graduate school, or 30. I had my job at the Student Health Center, and so I continued to work when I did both my MPH and my Ph.D. Well, actually, I shouldn't say that. I stayed there through my MPH and 00:36:00didn't teach. I did research for my MPH, because we had, you could do an internship or you could do a project, a research project. Not a thesis, because it's a very applied degree. I didn't need to do the internship because I was already what would be considered an internship in my job. I did the project. I did research with that and that is actually how I ended up going on to getting a Ph.D., because after I did the project with my major professor, she really liked it and she said you need to publish this. I had no idea how that would be-I knew publications but I'd never. So, I did. She helped me, mentored me to publish 00:37:00that research. I realized how much fun that was and how I enjoyed the research and actually the idea of getting it into a journal, which of course made me terribly excited. That's when I realized. She was saying, you really like research. A Ph.D. is about doing research. You love it and you're good at it, so consider. I took a year off between just because I didn't-it was a new thought for me. I hadn't considered it before then. I wasn't sure a Ph.D. was-I knew a MPH was the right degree but I didn't know if I needed a Ph.D., but I did like research. I also did enjoy teaching. Then I had already continued to teach the class in biology. When I did finally go back to get the Ph.D. and I no longer 00:38:00kept my job at the student health center, then I did teach more. I continued to teach at Cal State Fullerton, but I taught at some community colleges and then I actually ended up teaching at UCLA, a graduate course there. During that period I taught freshman, all levels, and the classes were normally or had something to do with human sexuality, but I did teach a lot during my Ph.D. program.

KS: Did you like teaching?

MH: I did. I loved it, yeah. I still do. I don't do very much of it, but I love teaching.

KS: Do you have any favorite memories from living in California?

MH: Well, when I lived over on the west side near UCLA, it was very pretty. We 00:39:00weren't in the smog. My memories were of the diversity. There just was a lot of-diversity with individuals and people you meet but diversity in that there was a lot of cultural things. There was a lot of great music. I loved folk music but I also loved classical music. All of that was great, and great food. Yeah, and I think I had those fond memories of enjoying the cultural pieces as well as just being exposed to new ideas. It was a very vibrant time of my life. I think I really have fond memories of that.

KS: On your biography page, on Oregon State, there is a 20-year gap between graduating with your Ph.D. and before starting work at OSU. Could you go into a little bit more detail about what you did during this time?

MH: You know what I did, you're just making me tell everybody [laughs].

KS: [Laughs].

MH: When I graduated from UCLA with my Ph.D., I wanted to come back to Oregon and there was a position at the University of Oregon, and so I applied and I actually got the position. I did not do a postdoc. Back then not many of us did postdocs. We went straight from a Ph.D. right into a university position. I got a position as an assistant professor in the department of community health, it 00:41:00was University of Oregon. I taught there for 20 years. I taught there. I was a department chair and I also worked in the, it's a society-the Center for the Study of Women and Society. It was a center that was all about women's studies and women's-I was able to be the director of research for that center for a while, so I did work in the center but basically I worked at U of O for 20 years before coming here.

KS: How was it like in Eugene? That difference coming from LA and then moving back to Eugene.

MH: Yeah, that's-probably when you were saying what did you love about LA, that's when I was thinking I missed LA. I was raised here in Oregon so I knew 00:42:00what I was coming back to. It didn't surprise me but I did miss the diversity and the great food and the culture. But Eugene's a lovely place to live, and I really enjoyed my time there. I really did. I think, again, I'm not a big city girl. I've enjoyed my experiences in big cities, but I prefer-I grew up rurally and I think there's something I prefer being in smaller cities or towns. It just works better for me.

KS: If you're comfortable-why did you make the switch between University of Oregon and then to come to Oregon State?

MH: That's a good one. I am comfortable, I'm excited about it as a matter of fact. I first was recruited to come to Oregon State to help build what we at 00:43:00that time we had a department of public health. It was an interim position and a half-time position and so what I was able to do for three years be half time at the U of O and half-time at OSU. I kept my tenure at the University of Oregon and kept my home there. That was good because I had time to come here and check it out. I don't know if I would've jumped straight without coming and seeing. When you lived in Eugene you didn't think you wanted to live in Oregon, I mean, you didn't want to live in Corvallis and you certainly didn't want to be at Oregon State. It was all that. But, I came and had a good time trying to help build the department and really I enjoyed building. I guess that's what I'm going to say. I like to build new things. I like to make changes. I'm 00:44:00comfortable with change and I feel like you always have to keep moving forward and building new and different things and reacting to the environment which is always changing around you. That got me going, and as I was coming to the close of that tenure of that 3 years, actually I was 2 years in, my dean here, I said you know we need to recruit a new department chair because I'm going to be leaving here in less than a year and she said, I found who I really would like to have for the permanent department chair. So, it was me. She asked me if I would give up that position and come here full time.

I said of course but I said, first of all-I didn't say of course at all, I said first of all as you know the faculty have to want that. Because we believed in faculty governance. She said, yeah, I'll talk to the faculty. If you're not 00:45:00interested I don't have to talk to the faculty. I said I'm interested, and this is the part where why I really came is that this is that Oregon did not have an accredited school of public health. Many states had several, but we didn't even have one. We didn't have an academic partner that worked maybe with governmental public health to really improve the health of Oregonians. It was obvious to me and it was lacking and I wanted to build an accredited school of public health. I saw an opportunity here because I had seemed to fit with Oregon State because 00:46:00Oregon State had more of the applied professional schools: forestry, and engineering, and pharmacy, vet med. Public health would fit. I told Tammy Raye, who was the dean at that time, she already knew I was already introducing all about accredited school of public health when I was here part time. She wasn't surprised. I said you know Tammy I like Eugene. I like what I'm doing at University of Oregon and I don't really want to come here just to be a department chair. I've done that. I want a new challenge. I said I want to come here and build a school of public health. If you want to do that, and you want me to come help you do that, I'm your girl. So... who's going to see, I don't 00:47:00know how to tell this. Bottom line was that she was interested. She said it isn't her decision, that she would have to talk to the provost and the president but that she thought it was a good idea and she would be willing to. Ultimately she did say that she was willing to do what she could to move that forward, and we did talk to the president and to the provost and they were on board. The reason I came was to build an accredited school of public health. I would say for the state of Oregon because we didn't have one, but also-didn't have one at all-and for Oregon State and for Oregonians, and that goes back to growing up in rural Oregon and seeing the needs of rural populations, the health needs, they weren't being taken care of. Part of my goal was because this was my state. I 00:48:00knew it needed it. We didn't have one. We did build the first school of public health, accredited. Got it accredited in 2014. It was the first one in the state.

KS: Yay, congratulations.

MH: But there's now another one up at OHSU and PSU.

KS: Oh okay.

MH: They came along second, but we were first, and that's good because the more the merrier. That's what I would say. So, that's why I left. Then I did move here. I love it here. I actually don't want to go back to Eugene.

KS: It's more of a small town feel in Corvallis compared to Eugene.

MH: It is. I agree with that, and like I said, that suits me.

KS: What were your initial impressions of Oregon State University?

MH: Yeah, that's good. When I was doing my half-time position and kind of having 00:49:00just one foot in the door, I started paying attention but it really took to get here full-time to immerse myself and better understanding. I liked it. I guess one of the big impressions is I think Oregon State is extremely overt and dedicated to undergraduate education and I didn't see that at the University of Oregon or UCLA or other places I've been. I value that. That was one of the first things is that I think Oregon State's the land grant university and they take care of Oregonians and they're dedicated to educating the next generation and this was even before all of our budget issues and needing more undergraduates and all of that.

This was 15, 17 years ago where I could see that dedication to undergraduate 00:50:00education and I valued that. That was one thing that I really liked. I liked the land grant university mission in that I really do believe in the work we do should make a difference in the lives of Oregonians and beyond. You don't see that so much at every university and the other thing is, and you'll hear this, is that Oregon State has low walls. That means that students can easily cross over in different colleges and take classes or there's research that you can easily collaborate with faculty in other departments. It's low walls and the research we do is to improve the lives of Oregonians and that's a value. Those are the main impressions that I saw immediately.

KS: Did you have much interaction with OSU before you joined as faculty here?

MH: Yeah, because I was here and got to know the faculty in the department as well as the college. Yes, my eyes were wide open when I came. I knew exactly what I was going to do. I'm happy for that. I'm not sure I would have left my job and come had I not had that opportunity, and I'm really happy that I did.

KS: As a female administrator, do you feel as if others maybe students or other coworkers come to you with an emotional labor, or come to you seeking emotional support with something?

MH: Definitely. I think it's partly-I think experience is probably and we built 00:52:00faculty in my efforts to help build our college, our accredited college, we had to hire a lot of new faculty so I was part of the hiring of-I was actually chair when we hired 20 new faculty. But overall we probably hired, while I was in the associate deans position at least 40. A lot of the faculty just know me because I was here during those transition times. I think over time just building-I think they come because they know you have experience, I have experience and probably a little bit of trust, having been around a while. Yes, and students as well, and that's just my door-I tell my students I'm available. I don't teach 00:53:00because I'm full-time in my position but I mentor students and they know that if they need something, mainly graduate students, but undergraduates too as you know, but I like an open-door policy except it's so noisy out there I can't always leave it open, as you can imagine. I can hear the piano.

KS: Yep.

MH: Yes, you're absolutely right. I think mainly it's, I think people value your experience which as they say does give you a little bit of wisdom, actually.

KS: Can you talk a little bit about the working environment for women when you first started here and how that has evolved over time?

MH: Yeah, that's good. I've been fortunate to be in a college that has a lot of women in it, a lot of female faculty. Public health discipline, although it's 00:54:00very diverse, but many of the more social sciences pieces tend to be populated by women. The more science-y pieces, like maybe environment and occupational health, maybe even biostatistics maybe are more men traditionally. But it's been all changing. Like I said I had a female dean when I was here, and we had a lot of female faculty so I'm not sure I've seen a real change in our college. I think I've seen a change at the university level more of a broader understanding of gender issues and equality for women.

I do think Ed Ray is one of the few presidents who walks his talk and he really cares about equity for all diverse groups, but women too. I think he came the same year I did. I've seen move that along. Yeah, I think it has changed over these years to have more equitable and more concerned about women's issues and how to help women succeed and be promoted. There's more work to be done. Getting women promoted from associate to full needs a lot of work, but I have seen it change, yes, for the better.

KS: Yeah, I'm glad about that. Could you describe research while you've done at OSU and if it's progressed at all over the years?

MH: Yes, it has. My field is sexual and reproductive health and I started basically in the '80s, I got my degree in the '80s. It's been an evolution since I've been on the faculty both at U of O and OSU, so I'm not sure I can separate out that. I was really early on focused on the health of young women who are at high risk of unintended pregnancies and HIV, but mainly on unintended pregnancies because that's what I was seeing particularly as I worked as a social worker. I really worked a lot with women. Worked on women's issues and 00:57:00had all my participants in my research were women, but as you look at the negative consequences of say unprotected sex, it is unintended pregnancies but it's also HIV and STIs and so over time in the HIV epidemic and just all the issues of chlamydia and gonorrhea, it became pretty clear to me that I couldn't continue to just study women, that the issues of STIs affect men and then the condom, and still is the only main thing you can do, and men control that. My evolution was I went from just studying women and women's reproductive health 00:58:00concerns to involving me and then ultimately, and most recently, moved into understanding not only the concerns of men but also the dynamics of couples in relationships. The idea that you study women about how do you protect yourself from say STIs or the last time you had sex did you use a condom? Or you study a man and ask the same thing.

What became clear to me is that we were asking generic questions, and so you might use a condom with that partner but your behavior with another partner is different. That's when I began to realize you've got to look at the partner 00:59:00dynamics and the relationship dynamics and characteristics to really understand behavior. You had to start understanding things like commitment, or, if you could study, love. Your perception of how exclusive your relationship-all of these difficult things to measure but very much influence your behavior. The same behavior with one partner is not the same with another. You yourself would know that. That's where I evolved and that has been the more recent work that I've done since I've come here is to really get into understanding relationship dynamics and partner dynamics and the role of men. The concept of it takes two to tango.

The idea is that if you're trying to help women and men protect themselves from 01:00:00risky sexual behavior you've got to include two of them. It's not like smoking sensation. If you go to quit smoking you probably don't have to deal with your partner, you just need to quit smoking. But you can't necessarily say I'm going to use a condom if you don't talk to your partner. If you're a woman and you're heterosexual, you've got to do that with a man. That's been my later, not the most latest, but that's where I've taken it most recently and I've really loved that piece too.

KS: With your area of research being in reproductive justice and sexually transmitted infections, I feel like today that could still be a little bit of a taboo topic. Have you received any backlash, say like the past going 20 years 01:01:00back comparing it to now, is the overall opinion of people do you think it's changed over the years and how can we improve that if-?

MH: I'll tell you when I first noticed the change was when I moved from California to Oregon.

KS: Oh, wow.

MH: It was much easier to teach human sexuality in California than it was in Oregon.

KS: Okay, yeah, that's what I would expect.

MH: People were, and this was Eugene, which you don't imagine, but yeah. It was different. It was different. I guess that's not over time, that was different states and locations. I would say the topic of, so I do work in abortion and I 01:02:00would say that is by far still the most taboo topic you can study. It's the one that is still, I think, the most controversial. Over time, the whole issue of homosexuality, that's really moved, we've gone, you know, but abortion is still a very heated and divisive topic. I do my work quietly. I don't need to bring attention to it, but I think it's important to do work that informs the issue around access to abortion for women, because I do believe that women should have the opportunity to make that decision for themselves.

KS: Thank you for advocating for women's healthcare.

MH: Has it gone-I don't think, this particular administration I know, but I haven't felt myself in any way constrained by it. The funding of course is. I would never get federal funding to do my work on abortion. I get that from foundations, other organizations. That's been true for a long time, that wasn't just recently with the Trump administration. I have to say I personally-but you know I'm in the university. I think that's part of my protection. As a matter of fact, I think sometimes I live in a bubble. I don't realize what it's really like out there.

KS: In the future, what changes, if any, would you like to see happen in the college of public health?

MH: Okay, wow, what would I like to see here? I would like to see, you know, I 01:04:00should say this because I read it in the paper this morning, I don't know if this is true. I don't know if-this isn't lofty enough. We have this HHS class that I think all students are required to take. In the paper I was reading that this student said there's never any talk about sexuality or sexual issues or how to protect-I think why are we not using that class to help college students inform themselves about how to have healthy, safe sex? That would be the change.

KS: That's a good one I've never thought about.

MH: I didn't 'till I read it this morning. It was in today's paper. Yeah. I thought, well, we do teach a human sexuality class where we talk about all that, 01:05:00but it's not required of all-isn't it required of all students?

KS: Yep.

MH: It's a missed opportunity.

KS: It is. Well, especially targeting it towards freshman I feel like would be super helpful because usually freshman take that HHS class.

MH: I guess one of the things I would really like to see, I would like to, we have a lot of emphasis right now on our undergraduate students and programs and making sure we're meeting the needs-I really care about graduate students and value their contributions to the university and I feel like we're sliding there. Not intentionally, but just because we're emphasizing one, I want us to continue to emphasize and care about our graduate students and our graduate student programs and to keep those whole and healthy and at the same time that we're concerned about the education piece. I also want us to keep our eye on the ball 01:06:00on the importance of our research programs and keeping them going and healthy at the same time. that would be my bigger vision that we keep everything moving forward in a time where funding is an issue and resource is an issue. I understand why it's hard to do all, but I'm hoping we can be strategic and think about how we can keep things going forward, because once they slide it's hard to bring them back.

KS: Wrapping up, was there anything that you wanted to talk about and I did not ask?

MH: I think you pretty much covered it. I wanted to ask you why you wanted me to do the interview?

KS: Wow, that's a good question. I first met you at the honor's college mixer 01:07:00and we set up a meeting in here and I met with you and I don't know if this is weird, but I feel like sometimes I can get a good feel or a good read on somebody when I first meet them. I was in your office and I just really enjoyed the whole atmosphere and the vibe you gave off. You're very welcoming and I think that there's a lot to learn from you and you know a lot. You have a lot of wisdom, as you mentioned, in the interview. I really look up to you in the research and the work that you do in women's healthcare.

MH: Wow, that's lovely. Thank you very much. Thank you.

KS: Well, thank you for being here and thank you for letting me do this interview with you, Dr. Harvey.

MH: You're welcome, and thank you.