00:00:00TIAH EDMUNSON-MORTON: Okay.
LISA ALLEN: Okay. Name is Elizabeth Allen. I got by Lisa. Date of birth Mary 23,
1983. Date today-October 20, 2016, and we are in McMinnville, Oregon.
TEM: Nice. You nailed all four. So, you've lived in Oregon your whole life?
LA: Pretty much, yeah.
TEM: Where were you born?
LA: In Portland. Born in Portland.
TEM: Then where did you grow up?
LA: Grew up in Tualatin for the most part. There was a short stint in my, after
my sophomore year in high school my family moved to the Bay Area. I lived there
for a year. My parents lived were there for two years before coming back. I
didn't like the high school I went to, so I came back for my senior year.
TEM: Where were you living?
LA: In a town called Moraga. It's in the East Bay.
TEM: Was that a big difference from there to here?
00:01:00
LA: It was. It was like [background laugh], my dad is laughing in the
background. It was, which I, I mean, Tualatin I think is kind of seen as a
sheltered community and so I was like, oh, this will be cool. I'll be going to a
different school, blah, blah, blah. The community that I went to was 10 times
more sheltered than Tualatin. It was very upper middle class, upper class
families, families that had lived in that same town for generation upon
generation upon generation. So, it was just like really hard to make friends and
all of that sort of stuff.
TEM: Is it east of Orinda and Walnut Creek?
LA: It's between Orinda and Walnut Creek, actually. It's like Orinda is,
Moraga's kind of like up from Orinda a little bit and then you go down and
there's Lafayette and then Walnut Creek is on the other side of Lafayette. I
00:02:00think it was, it definitely was in an interesting experience and stuff like
that, and I think it shaped the person that I am in a lot of ways, but it was
not the most fun, and I tell my parents, too. I had a situation where I could
stay with a kind of a friend of a friend. If that hadn't happened I would have
been fine going to that school my senior year, but I think I probably had a
better senior by going back to Tualatin and being with my really good friends.
TEM: What did you, before you had that year off from Oregon, what were the
things that you were interested in doing when you were younger?
LA: I was, let's see, I was into a lot of different things. I played soccer
growing up, like any good Oregon child, I feel like. I was really into, I drew a
00:03:00lot. I liked drawing. I'm trying to think. I really liked, I want to say almost
like exploring things. Where I grew was kind of a residential development and
when I was in elementary school behind us had been an orchard and they cut down
the orchard and started building houses behind there, and so I really liked to
go and explore in the half built houses and stuff. I really was into movies a
lot when I was younger. I really liked swimming, and in all sorts of bodies of
water. Actually pool was probably my least favorite. I loved going swimming,
00:04:00loved being in the water. I'm trying to think. I liked a lot of different things
when I was little. I've always had a lot of different interests. I think like a
lot of girls I played with barbies and did all of that sort of stuff, liked
hanging around with my older brother and his friends, much to their dismay, I think.
TEM: How much older was he?
LA: He's 2 years, well, 2 and a half years, but 2 years in school.
TEM: What about academically or scholastically? What were the spots or the spots
or the places you liked and excelled?
LA: I really liked, I've always probably been best at science and math. I think
my interests leaned more towards history and English but I was actually better,
00:05:00I think, at science and math. I've always really liked science, especially in
high school when I was introduced to chemistry. I was really good at chemistry,
just like it clicked for me. Physics, too. More of the math-y sciences, I would
say. I wish I would have, that's one thing I wish I would have paid more
attention to that or been pushed more in that direction. For a long time I
thought I wanted to be in the medical field, so I would concentrate on biology
but I really wasn't that good at biology. It wasn't that interesting to me, so I couldn't.
TEM: It's like theoretically it's interesting to be in medical field, but maybe not.
LA: I mean, I liked, the thing I liked was genetics, which is essentially the
more math-y part of biology, I'm like okay. I was interested in geology, too. I
00:06:00wanted for a really long time I wanted to be a paleontologist when I was little.
There was an astronaut phase, too.
TEM: So, it's like really earth-based and then space.
LA: Exactly, yeah.
TEM: So, we hear a lot about STEM education for girls now. Is that something
that you felt like your interest in science was fostered through the schools?
Was that a thing for you growing up?
LA: I don't really think so. I mean, I don't think that, I think in a sense it
was just kind of like what I enjoyed and what I was better at. I wasn't one of
those kids that had chemistry, take-home chemistry kits or anything like that.
00:07:00In school it was something that came really easily to me. I remember I was
always put in the, in elementary school we had an advanced math group that I was
in until we hit fractions. For some reason, none of us could do fractions. All
of the advanced kids were like what's going on? Yeah. I don't know. I don't
think, and I don't think it was pushed in any direction. I don't' think that I
was at all kind of pushed in the other direction, either, to do more like
English and history and stuff like that. I think the school district I went to
was kind of good at getting opportunities to anyone who showed promise or
whatever in that field.
00:08:00
TEM: Follow your interests.
LA: Yeah, exactly.
TEM: Did you go to Portland a lot? You talked about Tualatin, the imagine of
Tualatin as be sheltered. What was the city like?
LA: I would say pretty frequently went to Portland, especially once I had
friends that could drive and could drive myself, but we would go to Portland and
not really do that much, but it was still like getting out of the suburbs and
going elsewhere, I guess. With my mom, too, we would always go shopping and
stuff like that in Portland. I mean, we wouldn't always go to Portland but we
would frequently go to Portland. The big city.
TEM: The big city.
LA: It's only 15 minutes away and that's what people actually, when I tell,
00:09:00people assume being in McMinnville now that I grew up here. It's like, oh, no. I
grew up in Tualatin. I've had a couple people say, well, same thing. I'm like,
actually it's kind of different because in McMinnville you have, you are an hour
from Portland. You do have, I think you have more talking about sheltering, it
is like, you do have a lot of families that have lived here for generations. You
do have a certain sheltered community because you have only have one high
school. It's still relatively small, and with Tualatin you're still relatively
close to all of these other places. It's not, I mean it's a different experience
just having that and having maybe a little bit more diversity, too.
TEM: In Tualatin?
00:10:00
LA: Yeah, even though we didn't have that much. I mean, Oregon doesn't have much
diversity anyway.
TEM: It's close to I-5.
LA: Yeah. Exactly. You can go more places.
TEM: More from Washington.
LA: I mean, you do, I didn't have, I mean here you have kids whose parents went
to high school together and their friends and their parents went to school
together and all of that stuff. In Tualatin you didn't really have that. It's
more like families that are starting in an essentially like a new place, that
sort of thing.
TEM: What was the community like there? I know when you're younger... it's
something you pay attention to more when you're older. But what was the
community like as a whole?
LA: I would say where I grew up, which was close to I-5 near Meridian Park
Hospital, it was, I mean it was good for us because there were a lot of kids our
00:11:00own ages. I think for my brother and I there were a lot of kids that were around
our age. I mean, one of my really good friends I'm still friends with lived in
that neighborhood. Actually, her parents still live in the house that she grew
up in. Then one of my other really good friends live 4 houses down from me that
I'm still friends, in contact with and still friends with. There are just lots
of...so, you had an easy way to meet people your own age and stuff like that. As
an adult, I think my mom-my dad was working a lot. I think my mom found a
community to be a part of through us. I was involved in Girl Scouts and my mom
was the leader and the she also was a runner, and so found community through
00:12:00that and like a book club. She actually still goes to a book club that she went
to from that neighborhood, even though a lot of the ladies, there are a few
ladies still live in that neighborhood but I don't, I actually only think
there's like 2 or 3 that still live in that neighborhood. The rest have moved,
but they still meet up for...
TEM: I guess that's the benefit of the suburbs.
LA: Yeah.
TEM: You can form those more personal relationships.
LA: Yeah. I mean I think it would be interesting to go back to that neighborhood
now to see what it's like, to see if it's all these people that have just
decided to stay in the houses, or if it is new families moving in and that sort
of thing.
TEM: Well, the character of Portland and its suburbs changes and shifts.
LA: Well, and we lived in, and I think, too, we lived walking distance from the
00:13:00elementary school that I went to. That was nice, too. Actually, my friend that I
was talking about whose parents still live in the neighborhood, the elementary
school was about halfway between each of our houses, so we would meet there.
We'd walk to meet there, and it was just like think it's kind of weird where how
much we did when we were younger without parental supervision that people freak
out about now.
TEM: Your riding your bike by yourself?
LA: Yeah. I know. Exactly. And we didn't have cell phones, either.
TEM: Yes. That is [laughs]. That's the big change. You might have gotten lost
and then what would have happened?
LA: Exactly.
TEM: So, what was the impetuous behind the family move, then, my junior year?
LA: My dad got a new position. He worked, his original before he started the
brewery he worked for Wells Fargo. He worked as a banker selling securities. I
00:14:00think that's what it was. He got moved from Portland down to San Francisco, and
he was like the sales manager for the west coast. It was easier to have him
based out of San Francisco than based out of Portland. Then that didn't, he only
had that job for 2 years, essentially, because Wells Fargo being based in
Minneapolis didn't understand how expensive it is to live in the Bay Area. So,
when he's the manager of the salespeople, and the salespeople are making more
money than he is, that's not the best.
TEM: Then at that point your brother was out of the house?
LA: Yeah. It was his, we finished-my dad had been traveling down to San
Francisco a lot that year, but we waited to move until he was done because it
00:15:00was his senior year. So, we moved after his senior year.
TEM: I mean, especially the east, East Bay is not a cheap place. That section of
the East Bay for sure.
LA: No, yeah. Well, it's insane. The house that they bought, I think they sold
it-granted they completely redid the kitchen, so it was a lot nicer than when we
moved in. I think they, I want to say, and it was kind of when housing was
starting to go up, too. I feel like they sold it for at least $100,000 more and
it was two years, at least $100,000 more than they bought it for, and I think it
actually might have been more like $200,000 more. It was ridiculous.
TEM: A lot.
LA: Yeah.
TEM: What were some of the things that you got exposed to or... you talked about
the change that happened.
00:16:00
LA: Yeah.
TEM: What were some of the things that you were exposed to there that you
weren't here?
LA: I think it allowed me to be a little bit more outgoing. I had always grown
up being pretty shy and so I think that kind of forced me out of my comfort zone
in that way where I had to be open and stuff and meet new people. I did a lot of
things on my own, so I had-I could drive at that point, and my parents let me
drive into Walnut Creek or whatever if I wanted to go shopping, (I got a job)
when I got my first job and stuff like that. Learning how to work and manage my
own money and all of that sort of stuff, and then even going into San Francisco,
going into the city and stuff like that. That had just given me, I mean, forcing
00:17:00myself to be more outgoing but at the same time learning also how to be more
self-sufficient, I think, and learning how to do things on my own and not being
afraid to do things on my own. I got lost a lot, because, again, this is before
GPS, before cell phones. I'd look up on the computer, print out Mapquest
directions and figure out, and oftentimes I'd make a wrong turn and that kind of
allowed me not to stress out in those situations and just roll with it and be,
okay, we'll turn around here.
TEM: Culturally, what are the things that you remember as being culturally
different and the east, East Bay?
LA: I'd say people were a lot more relaxed in Portland, especially I would say
00:18:00that it was superficial. The school I went to people would drive their cars to
school just to show off their car even if they lived two blocks from the school
and stuff like that, very brand-conscious and stuff like that. I think a lot of
teenagers are that way to a certain extent, but I never really noticed that from
my friends in Tualatin, people caring about what shoes you're wearing and that
sort of stuff. Obviously there were trends and people wanted to fit into those
trends, but it was just a lot more, I would say, people trying to impress other
people there than it was at Tualatin. There were lots of nice people I met, too,
00:19:00and lots of really cool people, but it just, it was.
TEM: There are so many micro communities, I think, in that whole San Francisco
Bay area within easy driving distance. It can feel totally, radically different.
LA: Yeah. Actually, so my job was in Lafayette and I kind of wish I went to high
school there because I think it would have been a completely different
experience and some of the friends that I met through work went to that high
school, and so that was just a better, I think, that probably would have been a
better fit for me. I also think, I mean, I think it was really hard, too,
because you have people who have, you have your friend group and all of that
stuff. When you have a new kid that comes to town, it's hard for some people to
00:20:00reach out.
TEM: Well, especially at that junior year.
LA: Yeah.
TEM: With people who have been together presumably since kindergarten.
LA: Yeah, exactly.
TEM: Or possibly since kindergarten. So, then you decide to come back. Then did
you live with a friend back here?
LA: Yeah, somewhat a weird situation. My best friend she lived next door to this
woman, Carol, who had a daughter who had just graduated, or who was at this time
when we were setting it up was about to graduate, and her husband had taken a
job working in Tacoma, so he was gone most of the week and would come back on
weekends, and then her only daughter was going away to college. She actually
offered, and I knew Carol and stuff like that. It wasn't just a random person.
00:21:00She had been involved with Girl Scouts with my mom and all of that sort of
stuff, and I think they were talking about it, and she's like Lisa can come stay
with me. I would love to have someone in the house type of thing. So, I lived
right next door to my best friend. Yeah, Carol allowed me to live with her for a
year. That was really cool.
TEM: I'm just curious, did you, how it felt to come back, then, this place that
you've lived for, the community that you've lived in, you take a year break,
what was it like? Did you come back feeling reinvented?
LA: A little bit. I think I had less of the senioritis. I definitely wanted to
get out but I think less of the senioritis than a lot of my friends did because
I had gone away essentially for a year and had come back. It was funny because a
lot of people, and even now my friends will talk about junior year, yeah, junior
00:22:00year when I was gone. They were like, oh you remember blah, blah, blah. I'm
like, no, wasn't there. Wasn't there. Especially in college when we'd all get
together. Now I really only see two, well, one of my friends from high school
occasionally. The second one, but she lives in New York, so. Yeah, that happened
a lot, especially like senior year and then in college and stuff like that when
we'd all get together, like, oh yeah, remember this? It's like no, I wasn't
there for that. They would say, it was just like you were like sick or something
or just not there. You were there in spirit. Even people, like acquaintances at
school and stuff like that they were like, you didn't go here last year? Kind
of, and I was like, no. I wasn't here for an entire year and they're like, oh.
TEM: That's so funny.
LA: So it was just like I was like, yeah people didn't realize. I went back at
00:23:00one point and visited during the year-did I come back more than once? I know at
least once, possibly twice, and people were like, you don't go here? I'm like, no.
TEM: Maybe it's a testament to how high schoolers pay attention.
LA: I know. Exactly. Yeah.
TEM: They're thinking about other stuff.
LA: Yeah, exactly. But, yeah, that's, I mean, it definitely, and I think it was
not quite as difficult for me to transition, then, when I went away for freshman
year of college because I had already lived away from my parents for a year and
already experienced that.
TEM: When you were thinking about finishing up high school, planning, what did
you think you wanted to study? Because you had a lot of varied interests and skills?
LA: I had not really that much of an idea [laughs]. I decided, kind of like,
00:24:00probably sophomore, junior year, I started getting into Egyptology type of
stuff, and so I was like, okay, what can I do that's similar to that or getting
me into that field, so I looked into archeology, anthropology, and that's
actually what I ended up going towards at Oregon State. My whole idea was always
that I was going to go for a couple of years to Oregon State and then I was
going to switch schools. That never happened. Because there's no, if you
actually want to go into being an Egyptologist, there's no Latin at Oregon
State. You essentially need the Latin in order to do that career.
TEM: Was there ever a question of whether you would go to college?
LA: No. It was just assumed that I would go to college. Now looking at it, I
00:25:00wish, I know now a lot of kids are taking a year of in between high school and
college and maybe going to community college, taking some classes, figuring out
what they want to do. I kind of wish I would have done that, because at one
point in college I did want to switch my major, but I kind of felt stuck. Even
my advisor at Oregon State was like, well... you're going to have to do this and
this and this if you do that and blah, blah, blah. I was like, okay, I guess I'm
doing this then. I am curious if I would have switched to being a science major
if I would have taken some classes at a community college and just worked for a
year. But I felt like I had to go to school and so that's what ended up happening.
TEM: Did your parents move back to Tualatin, or did they move directly here to McMinnville?
00:26:00
LA: No, they moved to.... hey moved a lot after that
TEM: I guess there's another option.
LA: They moved a lot after that. They moved close by. The moved to Durham, which
is kind of like in between Tigard and Tualatin, essentially where Bridgeport
Village is, which did not exist when they lived there, of course. That was being
built once they moved again.
TEM: But basically like Willamette, upper Willamette Valley.
LA: Yeah. I mean, close to Tualatin. I still was not very far from my friends
and stuff like that.
TEM: What was it like, what are some of the things that you remember about your
first months, first year at OSU?
LA: Oh, man.
TEM: Lasting impressions.
LA: Yeah. I was... I mean, go ahead.
TEM: I should say, I'd forgotten that any, so what year did you graduate from
high school?
LA: I graduated from high school in 2001. So, I started September 2001 was when
00:27:00I started. Actually, so I tell people the school I really, really wanted to go
to was NYU, and if I would have gone to NYU I would have been there during
September 11, and then I probably would have come immediately home because it
would have been like, fuck this. I'm not staying here. At Oregon State I was in
the Poling Dorm. I'm just kind of amazed at how different people, people's
attitudes are different in college versus high school. I became friends with
people that I don't think I would have necessarily been friends with in high
school, which I think is really cool because you just don't care as much, I
guess, about like, you know, there's not the popular group and the nerdy group
and stuff like that. I had a really cool floor and we got along really well and
00:28:00hung out a lot and that sort of thing. It was kind of weird. I had a very pretty
roommate and so all these guys would always come knock on the door, is Crystal
there? Is Crystal around? I'm like, no. She's not here [laughs].
TEM: What was dorm life like? What are some of the...?
LA: I mean, I definitely think staying up later than you usually would, I mean,
I probably never went to bed before I would say 11:00 or midnight, which was
unusual for me, because if I know I have to get up early I want to get a certain
00:29:00amount of sleep. I mean, you're around people essentially all the time, so
that's kind of different, too. You're essentially around your friends all of the
time, which is kind of fun. I played rugby at Oregon State, so that was a huge
part of my life, too. I'd heard about the sport when I was actually in
California. I had a friend that played, and he was telling me about it. I was
like, I want to play this sport, and they didn't have high school rugby yet in
Oregon. I think it started the year after I graduated or something. I was like,
went to Oregon State, found the rugby team, signed up, and started playing that.
That was a huge part of my life, practice and all that.
I mean, college is, it's all about meeting new people and stuff like that. I
00:30:00think it's different experience now. A lot of kids go in and they know the
person they're rooming with and all of that stuff. It's actually funny, the girl
who was my roommate for fall term I got a different roommate after that because
she went and moved in with someone else, but she actually had also gone to
Tualatin, but had graduated a year before me. We vaguely knew who one another
was but didn't know each other very well or anything like that, but I was just
like seriously? I'm trying to get a random roommate here and you put me with
someone from Tualatin? She was never there either.
TEM: Was this the pretty one?
LA: Yes.
TEM: She knew guys would be knocking on the door.
00:31:00
LA: Yeah.
TEM: I've heard a lot about the separation, students are on campus that never
the town and campus shall meet. Did you feel like you lived in Corvallis? Or did
you feel kind of university-bound? What was your impression of the whole city?
LA: I would say definitely freshman year I think you're more, especially because
fall term I didn't bring my car to school, because I knew it would be ridiculous
with football games and stuff. A couple of people had told me don't bother
bringing your call in the fall because it's going to be ridiculous finding
parking. I did feel like mostly, staying mostly on campus definitely my freshman
year, and then I lived off-campus my other three years at Oregon State. I mean,
you definitely for the most part I would say stay on Oregon State, on the
campus. Even the shops that are on Monroe now didn't exist when I went to school
there. Those became a thing, of course, right after I graduated. You have the
00:32:00Beanery that was there and American Dream Pizza and stuff like that, but that
was about it. You didn't have the Dutch Brothers and the McMenamins and all that
stuff that's there now.
TEM: I think there might be more than one tanning parlor, too.
LA: Probably. That never really concerned me.
TEM: They have a lot. When you were there, you're studying, you're in
archeology, right?
LA: Yep.
TEM: So, you're studying archeology. Did you know people who were in the
fermentation science program or was that something that was even on your radar
at all?
LA: I kind of knew about it because I had a couple of classes in, it's Wiegand,
right? Yeah. I had a couple classes in there, and so I would see the different
things for dairy and all of that stuff, and then actually one of my roommates,
00:33:00she was a year younger than me but she was trying to figure out, she started as
a math major and then changed to an engineering major and then actually was a
fermentation science major. She decided on that. I think it was her sophomore
that she figured it out, that, like I think second part of her sophomore year
she was like, okay, this is what I want to do. So, I did. I knew her. Actually,
so that's, I was like, I took an intro to beer, wine, and spirits class with
her, and I was just like this is really cool. This could be something that I
could see myself doing, and then I looked in-because my parents had always been
into good beer and wine and stuff like that. I knew that that stuff existed, and
I went and checked out what requirements for that major and I look into it and
I'm just like, yeah. I would be here for another 3 or 4 years if I change my
00:34:00major, because I didn't have any of the background classes. I would have had to
start all the way down at the bottom.
TEM: I can imagine there's probably more overlap with engineering than archeology.
LA: Yeah, exactly, and math.
TEM: At that point, definitely now the career that you're in, the work that
you've done since graduating is very ingredient, flavor-focused. Were you into
food? Was there, I don't know, a budding or established flavor person? That was
a horrible question [laughs].
LA: I would say it was more, it was actually more alcohol-based. My dad being
really into wine taught me how to taste at an early age. Not super early, but
00:35:00when I was probably a teenager, my dad would have me taste wine and stuff like
that. I mean, I enjoyed cooking and that sort of thing, but I've never been very
good and I think this is funny, I've never been super adventurous when I cook. I
feel like I know other people that are just like, will put flavors together that
you are like those aren't going to taste good and then it comes out. I'm less
adventurous doing that sort of thing. I had always been that way, but yeah. I
don't know. I was going to say I've always been, I have always been interested,
though, like in, I would say, good win and good beer. I was the annoying kid
when I was under 21 and would have people buy stuff for me and be like, can you
get a 6 pack of Mirror Pond? They're like, no. You're getting Coors Light. I'm
00:36:00like, damn it. I was like, please? I'll pay you extra. But then they would make
fun of me and stuff like that, so it's like, fine I'll take the Coors Light.
TEM: So, definitely the college-age craft beer snobbery had not reached down to
the college yet?
LA: Yeah, and I will say, too, I was never one of those people that grew up with
Budweiser in the fridge. It was always craft. My parents, even when there wasn't
the good craft beer it was always Henry Weinhard's or something like that, which
was at least a little bit more decent than some of the domestic stuff. I had my
grandparents lived in Sun River. So, growing up I remember when Bend was like
nothing of a town and my parents would like stop at Deschutes when it was like
the only thing downtown and get growler fills and stuff like that of different
00:37:00beers and all of that sort of thing and going to McMenamins, because I think the
beer has changed since then but my parents, we could go there, and my brother
and I could get a burger and fries and they could have a decent beer.
TEM: It's funny to think about the difference in Bend between then and now, that
that would be, that Deschutes would be one of the only, or if the only choice.
LA: Yeah. I mean, and there was like nothing in Bend. I mean, they had outlet
malls. I mean, it's so much different now from when I was growing up. It's just
ridiculous how much that place has grown.
TEM: Yeah.
LA: Going back to the flavor thing, and I did enjoy cooking. Actually, my friend
and I, one of my other roommates (not the fermentation science major one) I
would actually do a lot of the cooking and stuff like that. We had roles divided
00:38:00as like I would cook and she would clean up. It worked pretty well.
TEM: When you were at the end of your time at Oregon State, how did you, what
was that concluding time like and how did you decide what to do next? Because
obviously you're not an Egyptologist.
LA: Yeah, obviously not. I had no idea what I was going to do after college,
because I knew if I wanted to continue pursuing archelogy I was going to have to
go to, you essentially need a master's degree to get most jobs in archeology,
and so I actually just decided to travel and I wanted to go to New Zealand, so I
just was like, I'm going to travel and work in New Zealand for a year. That's
what I decided, and so I got all of that, I got my visa and got all of that set
00:39:00up so I could go do that. Then I had something to tell people when they asked
me, because I was tired of being like, I don't know.
TEM: Yeah.
LA: I just decided I'd do that. It's like I'm going to New Zealand. I'll figure
it out when I get back because that's my plan for right now.
TEM: So what did you do there?
LA: I traveled a lot and I worked primarily, and I wasn't there for quite a
year. I think I was there for about 6 months. I did get a little homesick. I
primarily worked serving. I tried to find something else to do, but that was the
easiest job to find and where I could make the most money and stuff, too.
TEM: That's the other side of the globe. That's a big leap.
LA: Yeah. It was fun.
00:40:00
TEM: Were you there for, did you get the whole year of summer?
LA: Yeah. I did. So I actually left in October, beginning of October 2005. I was
there until March of 2006, and it was really weird, though. So I get back and it
had been still relatively warm in New Zealand. They were just kind of getting
into fall when I left, and drive to, my parents were living at the coast at this
point, and get there and the next, I think it was the day or a couple of days
after I got back it snowed here and on the coast. There was snow, which never
happens. And I was like seriously?
TEM: Well, you have to have winter.
LA: Exactly, it's like we're not going to do an easy transition for you. It's
just going to go straight to snow. That was an interesting experience.
00:41:00
TEM: But you got a year of summer, so that's a good chunk.
LA: Yes. I did. That's really weird. Being in, I remember calling my parents
like Christmas Eve, I think, and I'm in shorts and standing outside and it's
like a beautiful day, being like, yep. It's really nice here.
TEM: When you came back what was, you'd had a break. So, how did you make the
transition to wine, then, at that point?
LA: It was a couple years. I actually worked as a server for a few years. So, I
worked, I was living close to Pacific Cities. I actually got a job at Pelican,
working as a server for the summer and then actually went and helped open the
McMenamins on Monroe, had the shittiest manager I have ever dealt with in my
00:42:00entire life. Luckily I don't think he works for the company anymore, and worked
there until I think February. I think I started in September, was there until
February, went back to Pelican for another summer and then that's when I
started, I worked at Brick House Winery in fall of 2007. My parents were good
friends with the owners of Brick House, so I got a job working harvest there and
was also studying to take the GREs and doing that sort of stuff while I was
doing harvest, because I was thinking about going to grad school. So, I took the
GREs and was actually also applying to grad school and stuff like that in
historic preservation, and my friend I was working harvest with, she actually
00:43:00had just come from working a harvest spring of 2007, well, our spring of 2007 in
New Zealand. So, we were talking a lot about New Zealand, and she convinced me
to go back to New Zealand to work a wine harvest in 2008, because she had her
boyfriend at the time (now they're married), he worked at this place. She's
like, I can totally get a you a job there, blah, blah, blah. I was like,
tempting. So, I'd essentially applied for all my grad school, that was stuff was
done, and then I left for New Zealand like at the end of February to work
harvest down there in 2008. That's' when I realized, I had been accepted into
grad school at that point, actually in England, was planning on going to England
to do historic preservation, get my master's, and kind of really thought about
it and was like, I don't know if I actually want to do this, because I'm
00:44:00probably going to end up sitting at a desk my entire life, which I don't really
know I want to do. That's when I was looking more towards wine when I got back
from New Zealand.
TEM: Were you interested at being at Pelican or being at McMenamins and then
doing harvest, were you interested in the production side of it? Did you find
yourself hanging out the brewery room?
LA: Yeah. I would ask, well, at that time, too, is when my dad was starting
Heater Allen, because he started Heater Allen in 2007, officially, and I would
talk to the brewers a lot at Pelican, too. Well, not the brewers I would talk to
Ben Love, who is now at Gigantic. But Darren's a little scary. Well, he's not
now, but then he was kind of a little scary. But, yeah, I would talk to them and
00:45:00I mean I would brew with my dad on occasion and stuff like that and ask about
the process sand stuff like that, so I knew what was going on. I mean, I didn't
delve too deep into it then, but I knew the idea behind brewing and that kind of stuff.
TEM: And you were curious.
LA: Even the brewer at McMenamin's, I would come in and ask him, how's the brew
day going? What's going on? What are you brewing? Da, da, da. One of those
people, because, you know, and then especially after working in the line too you
become more interested in the process and looking at what they're doing and that
sort of thing after doing the actual production yourself.
TEM: Yeah, it seems like your, I can imagine that the product would be appealing
to make it, not just pick it. So, when you came back from New Zealand then you'd
00:46:00made the decision not to go to grad school and then was it a natural transition
or a sort of easy transition?
LA: Yeah. I kind of realized when I was in New Zealand that I was kind of like I
do think I do want to do this wine stuff. I like the process of it. I like being
involved in making something. I think that's really cool and, I mean I kind of
had a little bit of a knack for it, I think. I started trying to, I worked, I'd
essentially already been promised a job at Nick's Italian Café here in town for
when I got back from New Zealand to work the summer there, and so I was working
there and then also trying to find a job in the wine industry. It's kind of
hard, I was looking a little bit too early for harvest. So, it was really hard
00:47:00to try and find a seller position. So I actually ended up working at Argyle in
the tasting room. I actually interviewed for the both the seller position and
the tasting room job. It's funny because the assistant wine maker who
interviewed me, he's not there anymore, but he actually told me, he's like, I
wish we would have hired you in the seller. I was like, you should have hired me
in the seller, you jerk. No, but, I mean I think it was good to have that
experience and to learn. I had the serving part down, so I knew how to talk to
people and that sort of thing and that actually allowed me to start taking
classes at Chemeketa in the wine making program there.
TEM: Culturally, can you talk a little bit about what it was like to be both, to
have your feet in both worlds? To have your foot in the wine world and the beer
world? What was it like in the mid to late 2000s?
00:48:00
LA: I would say, I mean, I didn't... it was, I mean, it's hard to-they're very
similar but I think very different at the same time. The wine world, one thing
that I've noticed about the wine world is people are, there's not as much a
sharing of information as there is in beer. I don't think I really realized that
as much, though, until I started working, I don't think I really realized the
difference as much until I started working full time at the brewery. When I
started full time at the brewery, I took time off to work a harvest at a winery,
00:49:00too, and I think that is when I really realized the difference between the two,
but I don't know. Because wine is so seasonal, too, it's a different kind of
experience because you have, you're so busy during one time of the year, whereas
with beer, you know, you're spread out throughout the whole time.
TEM: Did you feel any difference in, or were you aware of gender, being a woman,
felt different in one industry or another industry?
LA: Not really. I mean, I actually would think that being in some ways, I mean,
I think I've, I experienced more like being as a woman in the beer industry than
00:50:00I did in the wine industry because I really was just a harvest worker and stuff
like that. I mean I would get, I would say at the tasting, when I worked in the
tasting room there were certain people that would talk down to you because
you're a tasting room worker and it's like, you know, and you're a woman.
Whereas it's like I'm actually taking wine classes, you jerk. I probably know
more about this than you do. But for the most part the guys at Argyle, too, the
wine makers there, I mean the seller was mostly men but they were super cool
about answering questions and didn't treat me like some question was stupid or
anything like that. I don't know how it would have been working there, but as a
tasting room person coming in and asking them questions that sort of thing, they
00:51:00were very responsive and nice and stuff like that. I think the places the other
places I worked harvest and stuff like that, I never thought I was being left
out for being a woman and stuff like that.
TEM: I mean, I guess, you're in different positions, too.
LA: Yeah, exactly.
TEM: It's hard to tell whether it's your position in the hierarchy.
LA: Yeah. Exactly.
TEM: So, you finished the certificate in wine making, but then how long...
LA: I didn't technically finish it [laughs]. I'd taken most of the classes.
There were a couple of classes I didn't think and I actually think, I found a
loophole in Oregon State's rules where if I took a certain class I didn't have
to take a speech class. Which I don't mind giving speeches, I just, I was like
all my friends told me how awful this class was and stuff like that. So, I found
00:52:00a loophole where if you took an extra writing class you didn't have to take this
speech class. I think it had to be a certain writing class, and the one I took
was a journalism class, a newspaper writing class. In order to actually, I think
I, I think there are a couple of wine making classes I actually didn't go to,
because one was during harvest. I was always working harvest, so I never
actually took that class. Then, actually did I take that class? Now I can't
remember. No I don't think I took that class. I'm like, now I can't remember if
I did. Because I still was taking some classes while I was working at the
brewery, too. So, I didn't take this speech class. That was technically required
by Chemeketa for me to officially get my certificate in wine making.
TEM: That's pretty funny.
LA: But I'd taken most of the classes.
TEM: So what year did you leave Chemeketa with almost a completed wine making certificate?
00:53:00
LA: 2010, I think was the last like spring of 2010 was the last term I took classes.
TEM: At that point, though, were you feeling like you were becoming more solidly
a brewer?
LA: Yeah, so I started at the brewery after I worked at a harvest down in Napa
in 2009, and that was when my dad was like, could you help me at the brewery
before you, because I was thinking about going and working in Australia. He's
like will you help me in the brewery for a little bit. I was like, yeah. It'd be
nice to just live in one place for a while and stay put. So, I would say, and I
mean I was cleaning a lot of kegs and doing a lot of grunt work type stuff, but
I think that's definitely when I started to get more interested in brewing. Then
00:54:00I would say when I worked harvest in 2010 after that I was like kind of more
into beer than I was into wine.
TEM: I guess flashing forward a little bit to that 2010 point and thinking about
what the industry was like, so you're close enough to Portland, certainly you
feel the influence of Portland.
LA: Yeah.
TEM: But your far enough away that McMinnville is a...
LA: It's very much a wine town, yeah.
TEM: Yeah. So, what was that like being in the beer industry in a wine town?
LA: Recently it's gotten better, but I would say that sometimes it's frustrating
because we don't, I mean even in our own town I don't think we get enough
recognition and stuff like that. I think people are, when they find out, oh you
00:55:00make Heater Allen. You guys make really good beer, but, I mean there still are a
bunch of people that are like there's a brewery here? Besides Golden Valley and
Grain Station? Because we don't have a restaurant. We're mostly production. I
mean, it is very like wine-based. I would say, which is one reason why we've
never, until recently, have not had open hours and stuff, it's because we've
tried it before and we sat here all day and maybe had one person come try beer.
It's like why am I wasting my Saturday for one person to come taste beer,
because it's all like, people-oh, is this a winery? Oh, no. Never mind. When, I
think though that McMinnville is just a little bit behind Portland. I think that
beer culture is starting to get more involved here, but I mean in 2010, I mean,
00:56:00it's hard being removed from all of that, because you want to meet people and
become, and I still feel removed from the Portland beer scene. I've made more
friends and stuff like that and tried to go to more events, but I mean now
traffic is so crappy getting into Portland I have to leave here at least, if I
want to go an event on a weekday, at least 2 hours before the event starts. If
it starts at 6:00 or it starts at 5:00, that takes time out of my workday. There
definitely is, I think, a bit of a removal between here and Portland. I don't
know if that even answers your question.
TEM: Yeah. Well, no. I think I'm just curious. I did an interview with the guy
who started Apple Outlaw, and he was feeling like the southern Oregon wine
00:57:00industry was actually bringing in more tourism for the cider side. I'm
curious-for him he's seeing the benefit of being a cider maker in a wine
industry. I was curious what the experience has been like up here.
LA: I mean I think that definitely as we're getting more tourism, McMinnville is
having this big push on tourism and stuff like that. I think as that is
happening it is beneficial for us. I think people are seeing beer as more like,
oh, this is something I can go do a tasting flight or whatever. I don't have to
just go sit down and have a beer some place. But, I don't think, in some ways, I
think if you're a wine drinker, I think probably you have a better benefit if
you're cider-y than brewery just because a lot of the people, it's a, I guess,
00:58:00less of a transition between wine and cider than it is between wine and beer.
So, cider's like the middle man. It's like wine, cider, beer. We do get people
that are like, man, beer, yes, after drinking wine all day. All I want is a nice
cold beer. We do have that, too. A lot of the, actually, wineries buy beer from
us. We see that, too. Because as they say it takes a lot of beer to make good wine.
TEM: What about, shifting a little bit to community and where you find support.
Do you feel like there is, where do you find your community? Where do you find
00:59:00your community of support in the industry?
LA: I would say from the other women brewers that I've met a lot. I mean, I've
met some, you know, male brewers as well that I'm friends with, but not as close
as I am with some of my friends that work in the Portland community. I've gotten
pretty close to Natalie Baldwin, who's a brewer at Burnside, and Whitney
Burnside, Sonia Marie at Leikam, and then Tonya Cornett who's at 10 Barrel. Just
kind of that community of women that I feel comfortable, and I've met other
women brewers, too, that live in other parts of the country that I wish they
lived closer. There's certain people, too, that I see out and about that work at
01:00:00other breweries and it's always cool to see them and say hi and all that sort of stuff.
TEM: Do you think that, I mean Pink Boots is definitely a very deliberate organization.
LA: Yes.
TEM: There isn't necessarily a companion male organization, so do you feel like
part of that you come together more intentionally because Pink Boots exists?
LA: Probably. I mean, I think, I don't think I would have, I don't know if, I
probably at some point would have met these people, but I don't know if I would
have gotten as close to them as I have if it weren't for Pink Boots. I would say
the only exception to that is Tonya, because I met her at a completely different
event, but definitely Natalie and Sonia Marie and Whitney, I mean, those ladies,
01:01:00I definitely like probably wouldn't have gotten as close to them if it weren't
for Pink Boots.
TEM: It seems like they do stuff. They organize club brews or they have brew
days so that there are things to do together.
LA: There are things to do, yeah. Our Portland chapter's kind of crappy with
stuff, which is funny, because it was essentially started in Portland.
TEM: I'd say irony.
LA: Yeah.
TEM: What do you feel like the benefits to the whole industry of having an
organization like Pink Boots is?
LA: I think it's getting, I think it is beneficial to get more women into the
industry, and I think it's helping with that. It's, I think, getting the word
01:02:00out, too, that there are women brewers and we are like competent, able, people,
and getting the, I don't know, just having, I think it helps when you are in a
male dominated field to have, you know you have support from people. I think
just having that helps a lot. It's actually funny. I'm actually officially not a
member right now of Pink Boots.
TEM: It's on the tape.
LA: I know. It is. Because I haven't paid my dues [laughs].
TEM: [Laughs] Neverminded all the questions I just asked.
LA: But I have been a member for a really long time. They just changed it so
that there's a yearly due. So, I'm trying to decide, I appreciate all that Pink
01:03:00Boots has done for me when I started as a brewer, but I don't know how
beneficial it will be for me in the future, in a sense, as I've met all of these
women and I feel more comfortable about reaching out to women if I need to.
Because Natalie and I have talked about this before, that it'd be nice to have,
sometimes you go to Pink Boots meetings and it's a lot of media people. It's
like, I don't really, I mean, I like meeting other women who are passionate
about beer, but at the same time, it's like I want to meet other women brewers
or other women in QA/QC and stuff like that. I'm struggling right now.
TEM: Which I guess makes sense, as any organization grows and expands, how does
01:04:00the, the big tent.
LA: I completely understand why they're starting to charge for dues and stuff
like that. It's just one of those things I probably will eventually actually be
a paying member. Just not right now.
TEM: Well, maybe it's served its function, too. It connected you.
LA: That's one of the things I've thought about. I don't think that, and I don't
know if this is true. This is probably me just being like thinking too much
about stuff, which I have a tendency to do. I've applied for several
scholarships from Pink Boots and haven't ever gotten one and I think part of the
reason is they look at me and it's like well, you already have a brewing
position. You essentially work for your dad. You work for a family brewery.
You're not going to like probably ever go on from that. So, what's, how does
this benefit the industry for you as a woman brewer if you're going to be at the
same brewery? I don't know if that's just me overthinking things, but I'm sure
01:05:00there were much more qualified people to get the scholarships than me, too. It
is what it is. But I do, I mean, and I do like the events. I like the meetups
and stuff like that. That's what I like going to, not necessarily the
information meetings. I like going and drinking beer with other women who like
drinking beer.
TEM: It's like if you could go to a staff meeting or happy hour.
LA: Yep. Exactly.
TEM: Well, I think it would be fun, we haven't talked, sort of intentionally,
about this company itself, since there's somebody else here who might be part of
that story. I've heard a rumor. But I guess I'm just, before we step back in
time, if we can step forward in time. So, what do you, I don't know what do you
01:06:00think about the future? How do you see yourself growing in your profession,
influencing beer in Oregon?
LA: Well, I mean, I just think that we kind of have a point at Heater Allen of
making a very high-quality product and a very consistent product, and I think I
just want to continue on that path and take more on a role here of, I would say,
more of like a head brewer role as my dad transitions into kind of slight-ish
retirement. He's smiling at me.
TEM: You could be her assistant brewer. You can transition.
LA: Because I would say that I've more been like brewer, seller person
01:07:00essentially, so kind of transitioning more into that world. I'm trying to really
start to recently in the last, actually, the last week or so, I've kind of been
trying to take more data on the beers and stuff like that to have that sort of
stuff and looking towards that. I think staying consistent and, I mean, there's
a lot of breweries that are coming out that are like, oh, well, we're going to
do loggers and that never ends up happening because they realize how long to
make a quality logger takes. So, they stop. I think that just staying consistent
with our quality and the consistency that we have and maybe helping develop more
of a spot, though, for craft loggers.
TEM: Within the industry.
01:08:00
LA: Yeah. Within the industry. I think that people's pallets are kind of going
that way, too. I think it's, as I talk about beer snob people, I feel like it
starts-you start with IPAs and then you move into the Belgian and sour category
and then you slowly move out of that into loggers. Because I know people that
essentially like just flat out tell me I don't like logger beers and I think
part of that, though, is that they haven't had a well-made, a good logger, that
sort of thing. I mean, I, for the lost time I do not like doppelbocks. There's a
sweetness to them. I just do not like them. I like our doppelbock, though,
because it doesn't have the weird sweetness that all these other doppelbocks have.
TEM: Well I imagine, too, if what you're drinking a lot of and have access to
are really, really hoppy IPAs and then it can feel, that's a hard transition.
01:09:00
LA: Yeah. I'm just trying to slowly, and slowly make improvements. It's hard
when you are and have been working at one place to make improvements I think to
what you're doing. Right now I'm trying to take a look at what we're doing and
seeing how we can improve stuff and doing kind of the stuff that we haven't done
before, like writing out procedures and stuff like that. All that fun stuff.
TEM: It's the 10th anniversary, not reorganization, but [LA talks at the same time].
LA: Yeah, exactly [laughs].
TEM: Well, do you have time to tell the story of the company? Do you want to be on?
RICK ALLEN: Sure.
TEM: In the spotlight?
RA: Sure.
TEM: We can have you right next to each other. I can make it a wider.
RA: I'll come.
TEM: A wider...
LA: He's kind of sick right now, so he's.
TEM: This is, we can continue to talk about what the weather has done. Okay, let
01:10:00me see that you're actually in the frame. Okay. It's stable. So, for the good of
the historic record can you say your name and your date of birth? We don't need
to have today's date or where we are.
RA: I'm Richard Allen. I was born February 6, 1953.
TEM: We've heard some of your work history as told through your daughter. So,
you started Heater Allen in 2007. Can you talk about how did you get here? Why
did you start a brewery in 2007?
01:11:00
RA: Well, I had gotten out of the financial services industry in, well, the end
of 2004. My wife and I ended up working for different wineries. I was working as
an accountant for a winery and she was working as a tasting room person up in
Santa Rosa. We worked there long enough for me to figure out the winery that I
was working for was basically bankrupt. So, basically I said, okay you guys are
bankrupt and I'm leaving.
TEM: As the accountant that's something you would notice.
RA: Yeah. Well, they were 3 years behind on their financials. I got them caught
up and then it was kind of like, okay. You can't afford to pay me. So, I mean at
that point I was really, really interested in doing something in the wine
industry. We came up to Oregon to live in our beach house so we could de-tax it.
While I was sitting over there and kind of looking at the market and what was
going on with the housing situation, it was pretty clear there was going to be a
01:12:00pretty bad recession. I was thinking, I'm really not sure I want to get into the
wine business and be fighting with the other 400 wineries in Oregon trying to
sell the same thing, pinot noir to everybody. Plus, you know, hiring a wine
maker and the fact that it takes about 3 years to come up with a product from
the start to finish, I just thought this is too long and it's too expensive and
all that. I just thought maybe I should get into making beer. I have always
loved a really good pilsner. That was always my holy grail whenever I was home
brewing, was making a really good pilsner, and so basically I sat over at the
beach and I was brewing pilsners over and over again. I brewed 14 in a row while
I was trying to, testing different yeasts, just doing all other stuff with the
01:13:00idea I'll open up a small pilot project and see if people will accept logger
beers, because at the time no one made logger beers. The craft brewing business
was much more of kind of really focused on English styles, the pale ales, IPAs,
porters, stout, that was the world of craft brewing.
So, I was looking for a place to do this and didn't want to do it on the coast,
because my thought was I wanted to be close to Portland so that I could deliver
into Portland because I knew that was a really important market for me if I was
going to do this. I was looking at either Salem or Corvallis or McMinnville.
McMinnville was probably my first choice of the 3, but I found property here, or
a place to rent here first so that's where I started. As it turns out it was a
01:14:00great choice, because McMinnville has probably the best water of the three.
McMinnville is one of two towns in Oregon that actually owns its watershed. So
they have a lot of water and they have really, really soft water, which if
you're making a pilsner style beer that's really important. So, McMinnville is a
great place to be.
TEM: So, you moved here then from the coast in 2007 with the intent of starting
this where we are?
RA: Yes. Well, it was, we have 2 bays in this building, and it was in the other
bay where the brewery started. The brewery is still in that space where we
started, it's just a lot bigger than it was before. To start with I was brewing
20 gallon batches. It was really just get out there, have people try it, see if
they liked it, figure out if it was something worth pursuing, and it was. People
01:15:00loved it. People couldn't get enough of it. I couldn't make nearly enough of it.
TEM: What was that introduction phase like? What was your strategy for, because
you're not necessarily on the, you're in the middle of wine country, you're not
maybe on the ale trail, beer tourism. People aren't going to come to your
facility. So, how did you take stuff to them?
RA: Well, I started out really thinking I was going to market to wineries,
knowing that wine makers, even if a lot of people in general in McMinnville
don't appreciate brewers, wine makers do because they like to drink beer.
LA: Well, after your processing grapes all day the last thing you want to have
is a glass of wine. You want to have a beer. Like, the refreshing. And pilsner's
perfect, too, because it's a refreshing beer. It's just like nice and easy to
01:16:00drink, nice and cold.
RA: Nick's Italian Café here in town, you know, kind of the old venerable
restaurant basically put me on tap and that helped a lot. They only have one tap
at the time. Now they have two. But they only had one tap and Nick always liked
to have Sapporo on tap. Eric and Carmen finally talked him into taking that off
and putting on my beer. So, that helped a lot. Then I was doing bottling. I was
bottling them all by hand and I started talking to the guys at Belmont Station,
and so they wanted to get my beer up there, and so, or at least taste it. So, I
brought a bunch of beers up. They really liked it. So, they wanted to stock it.
They were my only account in Portland for a while and then I did a tasting and
01:17:00people from a bunch of other grocery store chains came to the tasting, tasted
the beer, and then they all wanted it. At that point, I can't make that much
beer. I mean, I could barely take care of Nick's and Belmont Station. So, at
that point I needed to get a bigger system.
TEM: What did you feel like that transition-did it feel like explosive growth?
Or did it feel like you were able to pace yourself slightly to keep up with
demand or did it feel kind of urgent?
RA: I think for the first 5 or 6 years we could sell everything we could make
and it was almost like, well, just how much beer can you make because as much as
you can make is as much as you can sell and then some. It's only now that we
have 60 zillion breweries in Oregon and all that kind of things that things have
slowed down a little bit and we can make a lot of beer that things have slowed
01:18:00down a little bit. Up until, that first period of time, it was just crazy.
People were calling and I was just saying no. I don't have any beer for you. I
got a call from a seller down in California. They wanted to put our beer on the
list. I told them no. They called back...
TEM: I was going to ask you.
RA: They called back and I did say yes later on.
LA: A couple years later, yeah.
RA: But to begin with I was like no. I don't have any beer for you.
TEM: That has to be sort of a, I don't know, an awesome moment. You're like...
RA: It was kind of fun.
TEM: So, how did you find support in the beer community? What had been your
thoughts or reflections now as you head towards almost 10 years?
RA: Well, I felt I got a lot of support, I mean, the community was a lot smaller
back 10 years ago, but Mark Vickery who's a brewer at Golden Valley at the time
01:19:00was very supportive. I could talk to him and I'd go over and brew with him so I
could learn how to brew on a bigger system. Ben Love over at Pelican used to,
when I was making beer at the coast, used to put up with me bringing over my
home brew so he could try it and let me know what he thought of it. Even Darren
was very helpful as well. Then Christian Ettinger who was just starting out
Hopworks at the time was really, really helpful and allowed me to come over and
spend time brewing with those guys. Then actually about, I think about 2009 or
2010, maybe it was in 2011, but in that period of time I took a class. It was
just a one year deal through PCC where a couple brewers gave a class on the
01:20:00brewing business, and I took that. I met Van Having, who was hugely helpful to
me in starting this up.
TEM: Well, and you came in with a financial background, which certainly a lot of
people who were starting during those explosive periods, mid 90s/mid 2000s,
maybe didn't have that pre-career.
RA: Yeah.
TEM: In the financial world. I imagine that probably was a benefit.
RA: I think it was a huge benefit, because I had a business plan. I have a
forecast out like 3 years of where I want us to be and what I want us to be
doing. I can look at the numbers and figure out what are we doing and how do we
look and stuff like that. So, I think that that's been an enormous help. I
always, it's a saying in the wine industry but I think it's true in brewing,
01:21:00too, is that half of the business is selling the product. If you don't
understand that side of the business and have a financial plan around it, a
business plan of how to do that, you can make great beer and it's just going to
sit around. You're never going to really get it sold, and all that stuff.
TEM: Which is the point.
RA: Which is the point.
TEM: When you established this business, did you think of it as a family
business? Did you think that you would bring your daughter in not that much longer?
RA: No.
TEM: No.
RA: No. I thought she was going to be a superstar wine maker. I really did.
TEM: In New Zealand.
RA: She didn't, she's been underplaying it. I had, see I was really a wine
drinker. I was a home brewer, too, but I was a real wine geek and so I'd have
her barrel tasting when she was 19 years old. We'd go out to various wineries
and go through the barrels and stuff like that. There's still guys that want her
01:22:00to come and taste through the barrels with them so that she can basically give
them her thoughts on it. She underplays, she has a fantastic palette, much
better than mine. Of course, mine has gotten worse.
LA: That's what happens when you get older.
RA: Yeah, I know.
TEM: It's the cold.
RA: Well, it's that too, yeah.
TEM: Was there any question as she was transitioning over to the beer side about
whether, what it would be like to have a family business? A family brewery?
RA: I think there as a little bit of trepidation about how we would work
together and stuff like that. Would we end up just screaming at each other all
the time?
LA: I would say it took us about, like a year or so to get used to...
RA: We haven't been screaming at each other very much at all lately.
LA: No we haven't.
RA: You haven't thrown anything lately.
01:23:00
LA: No. I haven't. I have a tendency to bottle up all of my emotions and then
have one big explosive event, so I think I've been in a lot better place recently.
TEM: Well, it is a very different dynamic to go from being father-daughter to...
LA: Sometimes I think we do, at family events we'll end up just talking about
business stuff instead of like... it probably annoys Mom somewhat or something.
RA: Oh yeah.
LA: At dinner and talking about like, so, what do you think if we do this at the
brewery, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
RA: Yeah, sometimes. But it's been, I think it's been great. I think once she
started and once she showed a real aptitude for it, from that point on it was
like, okay, this is great, because you know, the way I look at it is this is my
retirement. I can come in here, and if nothing else I can do the accounting and
01:24:00all that type of stuff until I'm in my 70s, easily. But having someone who is as
anal-retentive as I am about brewing and is really going to focus on making sure
we make the absolute best beer we possibly can I think is really important.
She's all over that. So, it worked out really well.
TEM: What about your son? Is he interested in beer and brewing and your wife? Is
she interested in beer and brewing? I guess it's hard to not be interested.
RA: My son is interested in beer. He is a high school teacher, and that's
exactly what he should be doing, because he's a very gifted writer and he's also
very gifted at teaching writing and so he's better off just doing that and not focusing...
LA: And he'd rather drink like triple IPAs.
01:25:00
RA: And he's, I think, probably a little bit too impatient with the process and
be like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Let's get to the important stuff. It's kind of like,
you don't understand. This is all important. You have to do it exactly this way
and he would probably have a difficult time with that. It's, I mean he's
occasionally talked about getting into the family business, but then it's like,
no. No. Just keep doing what you're doing. You're doing fine. Then Jan, my wife
will probably end up working in the business at some point.
LA: Once she retires.
RA: Right now she's working as a school counselor and I think she loves working
in tasting rooms. She loved the year that she worked down in California, because
compared to working with all these screaming kids and stuff where they're not
happy to be there, she says it's really fun to work with people that really want
01:26:00to be there and to work with adults, too, instead of a bunch of little
8-year-olds and 9-year-olds and stuff like that. I think when she retires, she
come over and run the tap room for us.
TEM: She is the Heather in Heater Allen?
RA: Yes.
TEM: So, she's already sort of here.
RA: Yes. Someone on Facebook was posting that Lisa was going to be in the tap
room by herself and so it was really the Allen brewery, and I said, no. You
don't understand. She's the real Heater Allen. I'm an Allen. She's a Heater Allen.
TEM: So, what are, I don't know, what are some concluding thoughts? Things that
get you both here every day about the work you do or the impact you have or the
kind of place that we live that is such a beer mecca? Reflect on your role, I
01:27:00guess, in all of this.
LA: Well, I just think for one, I mean and this is something about being a small
business and only having 3 employees or whatever. Stuff has to get done. I mean,
and it's one of those things, too, I may not, and I don't have to that often,
but sometimes if something needs to be done on a Sunday, it's like I'm coming in
on a Sunday because that's what needs to be done. He's probably here at least,
short, every day.
RA: Every day.
LA: Every day, like if you have to like turn down a fermenter or something like
that, just something really quick, but just to check on everything and make sure
everything's going, and I mean you have to kind of care about what you're doing
01:28:00and what you're putting out to the public.
RA: I think from my standpoint, it's, my name's on the label, and so I want to
make sure that what I'm putting out there is a really, really, really top notch
product and if that requires a little bit more time, like coming in on a
Saturday or Sunday or something like that, I'm going to do it. The other thing
is that this business is so interesting and exciting, because there's so much
stuff going on and everything's in a state of flux and a lot of what we're
dealing with are relatively small companies, which I think is really cool. It's
not like we have a couple, well, you've got Budweiser and Miller and those guys,
but really when you talk about craft beer in Oregon. It's a lot of smaller
companies that are all kind out there trying to find their way in the world.
There's always stuff to learn about. There's always beer to make and always
01:29:00small changes that need to made, little course corrections that need to be made
in terms of what you're doing and how you're doing it and stuff like that. To
try to understand all that is really, really interesting and engaging.
LA: I will say, too, we've noticed recently, I mean this isn't something that
gets us here every day. This is just like a kind of observation, but it's as my
dad was saying about the market-I mean, it shifts a lot. It changes a lot. It's
really.. it's not, the beer market's not really super predictable. Recently
we've always sold a lot of bottles, and recently bottle sales haven't been as
great. But it's not just us. Everyone is seeing that. So, it's just one of those
things. Then you're, okay, well we're going to keg more beer, then, and kind of
adjusting to what you need to do.
RA: If people aren't buying bottles and taking them home and drinking what are
01:30:00they doing? Are they going to tap rooms? Do we need to reach out to tap rooms
more and sell more beer at tap rooms and that type of thing? But it's those
types of things. There's always something going on. There's always something
that's interesting. My wine maker friends say you've got harvest every week.
That's cool. I mean, they're like, that's awesome. Because harvest is fun.
Harvest is interesting.
LA: It's tiring.
RA: Well, yeah, but we have it every week. What's not to like about that.
TEM: Do you guys go to hop harvest?
LA: Well, I went and did like a hop school thing up in Yakima, which was fun and
interesting and kind of learning about more of the hop side of it. It was kind
of cool. I'm learning what certain breweries do.
RA: I've gone and watched hop harvests. It's pretty amazing.
01:31:00
TEM: Are there any smaller hop farms up here? I mean, obviously there's the big...
LA: Well, we have Crosby.
RA: Well, that's over in...
LA: I know, but it's relatively close.
RA: Actually, most of them are on the other side of...
LA: Of the Willamette.
RA: ... of the Willamette. So, you've got the Mission Bottom down near Salem and
then you've got over towards Woodburn and Woodburn and down through Mt. Angel
and Silverton and all that area seems to be really, but there used to be a lot
of hop harms around McMinnville.
LA: It's mostly grapes and hazelnuts. I was about to say filberts.
RA: And grass seed.
LA: And grass seed.
TEM: You should call them filberts.
LA: I know that's a true Oregonian. I should say filberts. I was talking to
someone about that recently.
TEM: That's how you know that you know a filbert and a hazelnut are the same
thing. So you're not seeing those kind of smaller, couple acre hop farms popping
01:32:00up yet?
RA: No. I haven't seen that.
TEM: It feels like it's happening more on my end of the valley, these smaller,
as you get into Eugene.
RA: I think one of the problems in the Yamhill Valley is that there are, the
water rights are pretty tight. I mean, it's like Carleton doesn't have enough
water. Lafayette doesn't have enough water. None of these cities have any water.
The surrounding areas don't have that much water, either, which is why they
grow, you either grow wheat or you grow grass seed, because you basically don't
need water to grow those things. So, a lot of its dry farm. I think it's a
little bit different when you get over in the Willamette River drainage. You
probably have a little bit easier to get water rights and pump water up and
01:33:00water things.
TEM: It's funny to think of this as a dry spot as we sit in the middle of our rain.
RA: I know. As it's pouring down rain.
LA: I was going to say no one's going to need to water at all this year or this
coming season. It feels that way anyway.
TEM: Well, thank you both for being recorded. I will pause in case you have
concluding statements that you would like to make, things that you thought I
might ask and I didn't.
RA: Well, and this is like verbal history of the brewing industry right? Going
back, you know, I mean it's pretty amazing. I mean, I started home brewing about
the same time that Bridgeport came into existence and there was Bridgeport and
Full Sail, and Widmer, and Deschutes and McMenamins. That was about it. It's
amazing how much things have changed since back in those days.
01:34:00
TEM: Were you part of the Oregon Brew Crew? Were you close enough that?
RA: No. I was living in Tualatin. I mainly just made beers so that I could drink
it. I was brewing, and I was never into medals or competitions or anything like
that, because to me I really didn't care if it won a medal. I just wanted
something that was going to taste good to me. As long as it tasted good to me
then I was perfectly happy with it and didn't feel like I needed someone else to
pat me on the back and say good job or something like that.
TEM: Did you find it hard to get supplies then?
RA: Well, let's just say that the supply you could get were really limited. You
could get, when I first started out and you were just doing extracts, you could
get like light syrup or you could get amber syrup and that was basically it. You
01:35:00could get this crystal malt or this crystal malt and that was about it. Now,
there's just so many things out there. The hops were, you could get a cluster
and I mean, they were really limited what you could get in the way of hops. I
mean, it was all just a fraction of what you see out there now in terms of
things. I mean, the [unclear] were still really busy. It's not busy like it is now.
TEM: Well, and having, even having the internet now. The things that you can.
LA: Yeah, because you can order online and stuff like that.
RA: That new-fangled internet.
TEM: That new-fangled internet.
LA: It's weird to think. I mean, as we were talking earlier, this doesn't have
really to do with beer that much, but thinking about how it is different, like
growing up without a cell phone. It has to be just like different now. All of
01:36:00that sort of stuff, like I didn't have a cell phone and they would let me drive
all over the place in California and stuff. Didn't worry too much about it. It's
just like weird to think about.
TEM: Yeah, well, and I think, or thinking about those early breweries and how
they got equipment and put stuff together that it required so much more, you
can't sit and look at your computer.
RA: Have you talked to the guys at JB Northwest?
TEM: Not yet. No.
RA: Well, you should. Because you hear some of the stories that they tell about
when they were first making equipment for Deschutes and stuff like that.
LA: Well, and Mark Vickery, if you haven't talked to him he would be a good
person to talk to, too, because he started at Deschutes and then.
RA: Back in the... yeah, he worked with John when John was at Deschutes back in
the '80s, I guess. So, you know, he's been in business for a long time. But, JB
Northwest has got some great stories about some of the stuff that they did where
01:37:00they had no clue what they were doing.
LA: It was like, can you do this for us? Uh, sure.
RA: Sure.
LA: We'll figure it out.
RA: Yeah.
TEM: That's what I think is so awesome. I feel like there is still that spirit,
you know, well, let's just try this and see what happens if we do this.
RA: When we put in our system from JB Northwest, we have a mash mixer, which
most breweries don't have a mash mixer. It's more of a logger thing, but there's
this big paddle n there that's supposed to be, it stirs this mash around and
keeps it moving. Because you're heating the outside and you want everything to
get heated uniformly throughout, and so it's just turning this over constantly.
You look at the paddles and they got this big paddle and this little fin on the
01:38:00end of the paddles. When they first made them they made them all just one way.
What they found was it didn't do anything except make the whole thing go around
in a circle. It didn't really turn it over and you had to have those little fins
on the end to make it turn over. So, the first one they built for Deschutes
didn't have those fins and didn't work. So, then they had to go sneak a look at
what somebody in Germany was doing and come back and fix it so that it would
actually work.
TEM: And I can imagine, too, that having the per capita number of breweries and
having a company that can talk to those brewers who are smaller and maybe, well,
it's funny to call Deschutes smaller, but they could give feedback and could try
things out, too. Yeah. That's what makes it awesome.
01:39:00
RA: Yeah.
LA: Yeah.
RA: You already talked to God, so you're good there.
TEM: [Laughs].
RA: John Harris.
TEM: Done.
RA: [Laughs].
LA: Oh, man. That's really funny that he's just like, hold on a sec. Got a...
TEM: That's what happens when you talk to people who are involved.
RA: Yeah.
LA: Yeah. I think that's it.
RA: Yep. Good.
TEM: Alright. Thank you.
