Kat Wondergloom Oral History Interview, February 22, 2020

LAURIE KURUTZ: Today is February 22, 2020, my name is Laurie Kurutz, my pronouns she/hers. Would you please introduce yourself, say your pronouns if you care to, and tell us all the jobs you do.

KAT WONDERGLOOM : My name is Kat Wondergloom, pronouns are they/them, and I'm a producer of Love, Lust and Leather Burlesque, and I'm a Burlesque performer.

LK: What is Burlesque?

KW: Burlesque by definition is to exaggerate or parody something. It is a mixture of creativity and sexuality. A Burlesque show consists of acts usually containing comedy and strip tease.

LK: Why do you do Burlesque?

KW: I enjoy the sense of community. I have been in quite a few troupes, and have 00:01:00guest spotted in a few more shows than that. And I just appreciate the way everybody comes together. I appreciate the sense of community. I like the support system that it gives to branch out. And it supports Queer art. I appreciate the empowerment aspect.

LK: Just for people who don't know, what's the difference between stripping in a strip club, and stripping in Burlesque?

KW: I would say the costuming is different. The money is handled differently. There's not an element of touch really in Burlesque. And I think the biggest 00:02:00difference is the views of people who don't have experience with one or the other or both. So like the viewpoints of the outside world.

LK: When you say touch, you mean audience-performer interaction? Or, what do you mean like that?

KW: There's no special lap dances [in burlesque], or- or things of that nature to get more money. Of course, there's audience interaction as far as wanting your audience to participate in your show. Maybe performing games, or things of that nature. But there's not really an element of touch between the performer and the audience member.

LK: Where does Burlesque fit in the spectrum of sex work?

KW: Basically, I believe that we are the audience's therapist. We sometimes act out fetishes that they would like to explore, or shame that they have surrounding certain things. In my show Love, Lust and Leather, we perform spankings and floggings for a small fee. And sometimes this is the first kind of interaction that people have to being kinky.

LK: You mentioned therapists, and some people talk about the sexual healing aspect of Burlesque. Do you see that? How do you see that play out?

KW: So, are you asking about the people that are watching it, or the people what are performing in it?

LK: Oh, good question. Tell me about both.

KW: I feel like the people that are performing it kind of get the sexual healing 00:04:00from it because we are able to express our sexuality in our gender, and our Queerness, if that pertains to us, in a way that not many other art forms allow themselves to do so. We're able to put that at the forefront, and put it in people's faces. And, they're paying for us to do it, which is fabulous. And, then, like I said, as far as the audience goes, the sexual healing is with the- watching us possibly perform something they've never seen before, never explored before. Like I said, in Love, Lust and Leather, we are very kink-based. And some 00:05:00people kind of see that and think "oh, I've never even thought of that kink before."

LK: Can you talk about the do-it-yourself-- and I don't mean "vs" professional aspects of Burlesque--but there are very- there's a nice wide range of production and participation in Burlesque. Can you describe that?

KW: As far as production and participation, I like it because you can kind of- the thing about Burlesque is that you don't need to take certain dance classes, or you know, the way that ballet is. [In ballet] you have to have years of experience, And, then you have to wear certain costumes, And, then you have to do certain things. The thing about Burlesque is everything is sort of different 00:06:00depending on the performer. It's all as you were saying, do-it-yourself. You make your costumes, you decide on the music, you decide on your choreography, And, then a lot of people like myself are getting into producing. The thing that I like about producing my own Burlesque show, is that I get to kind of go outside the norm of what people think Burlesque is supposed to be. Love, Lust and Leather is a kink-body-gender inclusive variety show. We focus on bodies of all sizes, people of all genders, kinks of all kinds, ages of all- people of all ages, and people of all abilities. So I think that that is really important. 00:07:00Some people may choose to have Classic shows with all skinny girls. And that's totally okay, that is totally a valid form of Burlesque, that's just not the form that I choose to have my ideals in.

LK: Where were you born, and where did you grow up?

KW: I was born in Modesto, California, and I grew up in Antioch, California. In the Bay Area.

LK: Are you from an artistic family?

KW: So, my dad and my brother are really good artists. They like to draw, but I'm the only one who is following an artistic career.

LK: What do they think of your performance art?

KW: So, my dad knows very little about it. He knows that I produce variety 00:08:00shows, but I think that that's kind of the extent. But he knows- he knows that there are like Drag queens involved, and there are like, skits and stuff like that. But he doesn't know the strip tease aspect. My mom is very supportive. She has taken me to the New Orleans Burlesque Festival. And- where I've Kittened- and -

LK: What is that?

KW: Kittening? Kittening is the person that picks up after each performer to make sure that they have all of their belongings. They exist because it creates a more professional air to the performer instead of picking up after themselves after they've just stripped away all their costuming. It just looks more 00:09:00professional to have someone else do it for you. Although I have, you know, early in my career, been one to scoop up all my clothing and all my tips and everything after that. It just doesn't have the same effect.

LK: What brought you to Oregon?

KW: Southern Oregon University actually. I went there, and studied art. From California, I moved when I was seventeen, to move into the dorms and pursue art.

LK: What year was that?

KW: That was 2010.

LK: Did you do anything in your formative years that lead you to performance?

KW: When I was little, we used to put on talent shows for my family where we would sing and dance. And then in middle school, I started acting in a local 00:10:00children's theatre, which I think is where I began realizing my passion for theatre and the stage, and just performing live for people. In high school, I became interested in the techie side of theatre. The backstage. Sound, lights, prop design, set design, etc., and as well as producing, and I actually won an award for best producer for a school play my senior year.

LK: Congratulations!

KW: Thank you.

LK: You went to Southern Oregon University. Any other formal education? Did you get a degree?

KW: I got a degree there. I got a Bachelor of Arts in studio arts. And then I minored in philosophy.

LK: And then in performance, do you have any other training?

KW: Like I said, I grew up doing children's theatre, And then in high school I pursued acting. I also did improv in high school. I was the only girl on the improv team. And like I said, technical theatre. I was also on the color guard team in high school, which if you're not familiar with what color guard is, it's the people who do the flag twirling in band. And kind of my biology teacher would call us the reject cheerleaders. So, basically, we were the ones who performed with the band.

LK: Have you ever been to BurlyCon?

KW: Yes, I have been to BurlyCon. I went to BurlyCon X where I took some classes 00:12:00in dance and production. I was able to take a class with one of my idols Lola Frost. She's fabulous. I'm trying to think of what else. That's all I'd like to say about that.

LK: Then was there anyone... an icon, a Hero, a Shero...

KW: "Shero," I've never heard that before, that was great.

LK: ...that was an influence or inspiration?

KW: In the children's theatre I'd say that my hero was the- I sounds kinda cliché- was the director, Frank Balisteros. He- because I was spending so much time in the theatre- pretty much all my free time, and, then some- he became 00:13:00kinda like a father figure when I didn't have one. So, that was really nice. And, then when I went to high school, my theatre teachers were really supportive. Jackie and Robert were ...theatre in high school was how I came to know about Ashland. We visited the Shakespeare Festival, and that sort of thing. When I transplanted here, they were supportive. They continued to visit yearly with their class, and then I would visit with them. Then when I got into Burlesque, they were also very supportive of that. So, it sounds very cliché, but they just continued to inspire me to follow my dreams and stick with the theatre aspect.

LK: Nice. In what year, and how did you get started in Burlesque?

KW: I found out about Burlesque in my senior year of college, in about 2011. I kind of heard about it through Burlesque dancer Dita Von Teese, who is sort of the poster child for Burlesque right now. Just as far as what most people when they've have heard of Burlesque, that's what they know and think of. But I kind of pursue it further. Looking into podcasts, looking into YouTube videos. Reading up on it, websites and everything like that. I found an ad on the 00:15:00internet for a local Burlesque troupe that was forming, so I messaged them. And they were very open to new performers and so I joined their troupe. There were a few Drag queens in the troupe, and they sort of taught me about make-up and costuming. The director of the troupe taught us about marketing. That's how I started with my producing. The first show I produced was called the Rockin' Pin Up Revue, at Johnny B's in Medford. Actually, we have a show coming up in Medford. I can't think of the date right now, at Johnny B's. So it feels like 00:16:00it's coming full circle.

LK: What do you do outside of Burlesque to pay for your art?

KW: I'm a nanny. I've been a nanny for four years. I nanny twins. Teenage twins. I also do a lot of side hustling. I sell content, I sell clothing, and I recycle bottles and cans, which I know is extremely glamorous. I also try to occasionally teach workshops, as well as make costume pieces for people.

LK: How did you learn your costume skills?

KW: Costume Skills. So, my costume skills, when I say costuming for people, I mostly mean rhinestoning or bedazzling. Embellishing is what I should call it. 00:17:00That's probably the better term for that. But it just took practice. Mostly on my own costumes, and lots of hot glue and E6000.

LK: We live in Southern Oregon, and your career is in traveling- a lot of small towns- Astoria, -well, Bend isn't really a small town, but can you describe what Burlesque is like in the various small towns, in the venues? Just paint us a picture of each of those places.

KW: So, I would say that a lot of them are similar. The difference is how much you come to know your owners or your contacts at the venue. And then how much- 00:18:00not control you have over the advertisement, but your ability to advertise. And what I mean by that is with local shows, I'm able to put up posters, and pass out fliers. Give out business cards, things of that nature. Word of mouth is really important, but in shows that are farther away, and especially shows that I have never- or areas that I've- cities that I've never performed at before, I don't have the word of mouth more than what the venue can provide. Or the posters that they can put up. Street teams are possible. I don't know if you 00:19:00know what a street team is? A street team is a group of people that are kind of your advertising team. They put up posters, and get the word out. They do a lot of social media which is good. Like I said, if they're local, then they know the groups that they can post in on social media. Social media is a really big advertising way though. I have a whole list of groups that I post when I have shows in... for each individual city that I perform in.

LK: For example, in Astoria, if you were going to produce a- sorry, I'm gonna mess it up- Love, Leather and Lace? Did I get it close?

KW: Love, Lust, and Leather. That's okay.

LK: ...show, what would that be like from start to finish? You decide to do a show, and you...?

KW: So first, uh... Am I allowed to say names, is that okay?

LK: Yeah.

KW: Okay, so, the woman that I'm in contact with in Astoria, her name is Terry. She owns the Labor Temple, as well as the sports bar in town, The Merry Time Bar. The Merry Time Bar is actually where I met her and got my start in Astoria. But anyways, she has since focused the Burlesque more at the Labor Temple, now that she owns that. It's a bigger venue and just lends itself better to that art form. But basically, we're in contact pretty regularly. And she contacts me, or I contact her saying "hey, I have this idea for a show" or she messages and says 00:21:00"hey, I have these dates open for a show. Are you available to do them?" Then I look at my calendar of course- I use Google calendar, and everything is color coded for what days I have shows, or what days I have to travel for shows. And big work engagements, and other things of that nature. But, then we confer. I usually consult Bayou Betty. She is my main host of Love, Lust and Leather, and if she is available, then she is my first choice of host. Otherwise it's Bella Nocturne, who is Seattle based. I like having her in my shows anyways. And, then 00:22:00I put out a casting call saying I have this show coming up, here's the guarantees that I can do. Do I need to explain what a guarantee is?

LK: Sure.

KW: A guarantee is the amount of money that you are promised, as like a flat fee to receive for a certain number of acts. And the things that, when I am making a guarantee, I take into account how long you've been doing it, how- I kinda like to know your training, or your background kind of thing. Because if you're a newbie or whatever, you definitely still deserve to be paid. I firmly believe that newbies and Kittens, and anybody like that, if you're using their time, 00:23:00they deserve to be paid. But, a guarantee, it includes if you are giving them lodging. And, then if- oh, sorry. I was like what does that mean- And, then lodging, and than also how far away they're coming from.

LK: Wow, how do you provide lodging?

KW: I'm not always able to provide lodging, it just depends on the venue and if they are able to provide some kind of stipend when it comes to lodging. Or if they give us a guarantee, like as a flat fee for the amount of performers, then sometimes I'm able to work it into the availability for the performers. But 00:24:00normally what we usually work it into is sometimes we share a hotel or an AirBnB, or sometimes we stay with friends. So if that's available.

LK: That's a lot of work, producing.

KW: Yes, definitely.

LK: And so, the audience. Who are the folks who are typically drawn to a Burlesque performance?

KW: So, drawn to a Burlesque performance? Or drawn to our Burlesque performance?

LK: Oh, both.

KW: Okay, when people hear Burlesque, they often think of the movie because not everybody has much experience with it otherwise. Another thing they think of is Vegas showgirls. The skinny, big feathers, you know, generally cis white kind 00:25:00of- still sparkly, still very glitter induced, but- I'm sorry could you repeat the question?

LK: Just wondering what kind of audience members, what you've observed about the audience.

KW: Audience members, okay, of course. So, for Love, Lust and Leather, like I said, we are a Queer Burlesque troupe and we advertise it as such. We also advertise that we are body positive. So a lot of people also come for that. I kind of say that we're the punk rock version of Burlesque. And that doesn't really- that doesn't really have to do with the music that we use, although people like Betty and Sarah do use punk music. But what I'm saying is it isn't 00:26:00the Classical feather fans and gowns and things like that. It's very much Neo-Burlesque. Would you like me to explain Neo-Burlesque vs Classical Burlesque?

LK: Yes.

KW: Okay, so, Classical Burlesque is the gowns. The very sultry music. Fan dancing is big in Classic Burlesque. So then Neo-Burlesque, you can use any type of music, you can use no music at all, you could use clicking sounds. You know, whatever you think would fit best with your act. Costuming is different, it can be whatever you want. You don't have to have a certain dance background in 00:27:00Neo-Burlesque or choreography, for that matter. You want to have an idea, but it can be improv. And it- you know, it doesn't have to be what Betty, Bayou Betty explains as "doing the wash." Which is you wash your arm, you wash your legs, you wash your chest. That kind of thing, and sort of the prance and peal. So, those are the differences between Neo and Classic Burlesque. But Love, Lust and Leather is sort of geared more towards Neo-Burlesque. And so, the audience members know that. In Astoria in particular, word of mouth has gotten around 00:28:00because I've been performing there for four years or so. So, Love, Lust and Leather has become sort of a name. When we come to town, we have regulars. Some people come from Portland. We get Kerfuffle, which is the local troupe there. A lot of people from Kerfuffle come. So it's a mixture of a lot of locals, and people from Portland and performers.

LK: How do you get a bar, or a venue to partner with you to produce a show?

KW: First what I do is I go to the venue's website and I look for some kind of contact email. Email is best, some people use social media, and I just think 00:29:00that email is more professional, although social media is more updated- or common I guess I would say. The nice thing with email is you can connect to your drive to show video and things of that nature. But what I have is a highlight reel from Love, Lust and Leather show that I did at the Talent Club. I send that to them, and I compliment it with a video of just myself performing, so they can see a whole act. Then I say here's what I can offer you. Here's the economics of it. What do you think? And, then I mention my accolades, like dancing for Hubba Hubba Revue, and that I won Best Performing Artist in 2015. Then sometimes- you 00:30:00know, sometimes I'll wait for a response. Sometimes the response is "no thank you." Sometimes there is no response at all, And, then sometimes when you're lucky, the response you get is positive. Like "yes, let's do that, let's talk more" and you go from there.

LK: Great, you just mentioned a couple things I don't want to lose. What is Hubba Hubba Revue?

KW: Hubba Hubba Revue is a really big, well-known show in San Francisco and Oakland. They have two different venues. It is run by Jim Sweeny. They have a Monday show I believe, in Oakland every- well, obviously weekly. And, then they have a monthly show that's their big show. And people come, performers come from 00:31:00all over, like, literally from different countries to be in Hubba Hubba shows. It looks really good on a resume, and it's a really good community. Like I said, you get to meet people from all over. I have performed for Hubba twice.

LK: And you mentioned winning an award in 2015. Tell me about that. What was that?

KW: That was for the Rogue Valley Messenger. They did a vote on a bunch of different artistic... like, bands. They did a vote on different local bands and things in the area. Theatre, and all different kinds of art forms. So, one of the awards was Best Performing Artist and I was voted number one.

LK: Congratulations!

KW: Thanks.

LK: Back to getting a bar or a venue let you produce shows there, what is the economic argument that you make?

KW: It just depends. It just depends on the venue. Basically, what I do is I ask first for a guarantee. If that doesn't work, I say well, then let's keep the door- the cover charge for the show, Then I- we also get to keep all of our tips. Then something that I do in my shows to ensure that my people are definitely getting paid, is that we do a raffle, we do a game, and then we do floggings and spankings. And all of those things cost money to do. And so, all that extra money together, everybody splits and so- And, then normally, we like 00:33:00to ask also for some sort of bar tabs, or drink tickets or meal tickets. So, any combination of those things.

LK: You travel to perform at festivals and shows, do you do shows that one has to apply to?

KW: Let me think about that for a moment. I don't. I don't do that many shows that I apply to. I think that the reason that I don't has to do with a thing that we call in Burlesque "imposter syndrome." Imposter syndrome is when you feel you... I don't want to use the word imposter in the definition, because 00:34:00that wouldn't make sense, but basically when you feel that you're not at the caliber that people expect you to be. So, although I produce my own shows, and- although I produce my own shows, I have fears about rejection. Of course, everybody does, but- I guess that's all I want to say to that, I don't know. I don't know how to elaborate on that.

LK: Sure. This all sounds very busy. Can you describe a week in the life of Kat Wondergloom? I don't know how you fit the nannying in! Can you just give us the arc in a week?

KW: Yes, okay, so I have my days extremely planned. It drives my boyfriend a 00:35:00little crazy. Basically, I use a Google calendar to- and like I said, I color code everything to keep everything on track. And I also have a Burlesque notebook, so any ideas I have, or in case anyone says "oh, I need to change an act, or I need to change-" anything having to do with the Burlesque stuff, I keep a notebook. And, then I keep a copy of that in my phone. So, I use all those things to organize, first of all. Then, so, basically what my week looks like is- weekdays, every weekday I nanny. And, then Monday nights- Monday nights, Tuesday nights, and Friday nights are spent with my friends or my partner.

Wednesday nights, Thursday nights, Thursday mornings are spent on a show. Like specifically we'll sit down and work out show logistics, work on choreography, work on costuming and things like that. Now, that's not to say those are my only times. I'm constantly- like I said I keep my Burlesque notebook with me everywhere I go, and I also keep that stuff on my phone. So anytime I- you know, something comes to mind, or- I set reminders the one month mark before a show. Put out poster, you know, one month poster. Or, contact this person for this show. You know, double-check that these people can confirm for this show. So, I'm constantly working on show stuff. But my week as it stands is kind of 00:37:00designated in those ways as it stands.

Oh, and, then of course, weekends. Saturdays I do shows, And, then Sundays- I was working three jobs. I just quit one of my jobs as a beauty consultant at a department store, that's what I was doing on Sundays. So, I would come back from a show, and I would immediately go to work. So, I have no free days, and no free time. But, I like it that way, I have ADHD, so keeping my mind busy is very helpful for me. And all my lists are super helpful for me. I use an app, is it okay if I talk about an app?

LK: Yes.

KW: I use an app called To-Do-ist, like to-do-list without the L. You are able 00:38:00to break up things you need to do into projects, tasks and subtasks. Then you can also color code everything. You can set little reminds, and it will send you reminders and tell you to do things you have for the day and stuff like that. So, I use that a lot too.

LK: Shifting to more artistic aspects, you just mentioned creating a new piece of theatre, or Burlesque, what is your process for creating a new piece for you to perform?

KW: It usually starts with a song, or an idea. Sometimes I hear a song and I just feel in my bones that I need to perform this. I don't know how I'm gonna do it, I don't know what I'm gonna wear, I don't know what the overall theme is 00:39:00gonna be. I just know that I have to do this song. One of the examples of that is Save My Soul by Big Bad Voodoo Daddy. I was obsessed with that song for like a year before I finally decided to actually make an act out of it. Then the other way that I create acts is from an idea. So for my Bad Romance act, I- it's an act where I am dressed as a turkey, And, then I have a '50s housewife, and she undresses me, or dresses me, right. She takes off my feathers and then she preparing me for Thanksgiving dinner. And it ends with her about to stick a turkey baste in my rear, and so that was my idea starting out. But I didn't know 00:40:00what song I would do. And, I ended up using a Bossanova version of Lady Gaga's song, A Bad Romance. So, like I said, so it just depends on whether I have the idea first, or the song first.

LK: Where do you get your costumes and props?

KW: So I do Burlesque on a budget. I like- Bayou Betty says that if you find something sparkly, or you find something weird, you should just buy it. I mean, obviously, if you can. Then, you know keep it, and, then- and, then keep it, because you never know what you're gonna use, or what's going to spark inspiration later. So, I shop at a lot of Goodwill, thrift stores, consignment stores, those sorts of things. Then for my under things, for bra and panties and 00:41:00things like that, I usually shop at department stores. Like cheap department stores.

My whole thing is like functional, but affordable. And of course comfortable. Comfortable is a big thing in Burlesque, because you don't want to have your bra digging into your chest while you're trying to fan dance, or do other things. Then what I do is I shop at Dollar Tree, and I buy Dollar Tree rhinestones. They look just as good as Swarovskis when you have them covering everything, and it hits the light just right. Another thing I would say is just use good glue. Because you don't want to have to put in all that work, and then have it fall apart. Hot glue has a time and a place. Tawdry Hepburn, who is on my troupe in 00:42:00Eugene, called Unveiled, she- her tagline is "held together with hot glue and a dream." She makes some amazing things, props and outfits and things, out of literally just hot glue and cardboard. It's amazing. So, I definitely feel that Burlesque can definitely happen on a budget.

LK: We've been listening to some noise from outside, so just to explain that [to anyone viewing this video.] Around some topics, cultural, sociological topics, around cultural appropriation. What are your thoughts about that in terms of Burlesque, how it's used, or misused?

KW: First, I'd like to kind of describe what I would consider cultural appropriation. So, I think that's the adoption of practices of a marginalized group adopted by a people of a more dominant group, I guess is what I would use. And so, ways that people do that is, you know, people who do cultural based acts 00:44:00that don't follow the culture that those people actually are a part of. So that can include sugar skull Dia de Los Muertos. That can include Geisha sort of acts. Some genie acts can fall into that sort of thing. So, I think what the most important rule is, one that I follow is that, if you are worried that it might be racist, it's probably racist. So the best thing to do is to ask people that it might offend. Ask people that- and if it- it also has to do a little bit with like- you have to take into account people who are not cis straight white people. Ask people- and people who are not your friends. Ask people that are also in the business, and say "hey, do you think this is racist? Do you think 00:45:00this is cultural appropriation?" see what they think.

LK: On the topic of diversity, how do you define diversity, and how do you go about achieving that in shows that you produce?

KW: I would define diversity as variety, or a range of different things. The way that I achieve diversity in Love, Lust and Leather is I go out of my way to invite people of color, different abilities, people of different genders, you know, races. All that, and I think people of different levels as well. I like to include a newcomer each show. Whether that be a performer, or a Kitten, or a 00:46:00Money Bunny. Which is also known as the Tip Tart, which is the person that collects tips and kind of controls the money for the show. But I think that's a great way to get new people into the show, I think that's a great way to get people that you haven't worked with into the show. So, just go out of your way to invite people. Do not wait for them to come to you. Make sure that your show is accessible. I meant that both physically, for people with different abilities, as well as people of different cultures, and people of different genders. And things of that nature. Make sure it's open for everybody, make sure it's a safe space.

LK: When we first started talking you said you did Burlesque because of how it empowers you. Can you explain more about that?

KW: Something that I don't think a lot of people understand is the amount of control that you have in Burlesque. I kind of mentioned it earlier a little bit. Basically, you're able to control your choreography, your costume, your music, your lighting, the way that you're introduced, the way that you interact with the audience. Everything is controlled. You tell the audience what to think, what to see, how to feel. And I think that that's very empowering. You are able to express yourself, your sexuality, your humor, your intelligence in a safe space.

LK: People talk about how Burlesque can be a force for social change. You've touched on some of that, can you explain a little more?

KW: What I feel that Burlesque does is kind of give a voice to marginalized groups. It kind of, it puts them at the forefront. Creating space for them. It's a great way to talk about social issues. These can include gender equality, a big one is fat phobia, and race of course. So, like I said, it gives people a voice, and kind of makes people sit down, shut up and listen.

LK: Is the very fact of the kinds of people you just described being onstage a political act?

KW: I believe that it would be. Especially for Black women, and Queer people, and fat people. All those people, I mean, just look at Lizzo. She's all of those things, and she has such a strong following, and such a- she's able to kind of create this cult almost. This cult following because we've never seen anything like that before.

LK: What are challenges facing Burlesque today?

KW: I think a couple challenges, like I was saying, is the fat phobia- is a big one- of directors, or producers not wanting their - their acts to look a 00:50:00certain- or specifically that they do want their acts to look a certain way and performers of all sizes do not always fit into that. As well as performers of color do not always fit into that. Another thing is that personally is for me and other performers to charge their worth. What you have to do, is you have to, obviously, take into account the face value expenses such as travel, hotel, food, gas, those things.

But then you also have to take into account the years that you've been performing, the experience that you have, the amount of time that you put into your costuming. The amount of time that you've put into your choreography, your 00:51:00hair, your make-up. The of classes you've taken for all of those things, and I think all- the amount of distance that you've traveled, I think people forget. Putting all those things together can create a pretty substantial guarantee. So sort of a balancing act that we have to do as performers is do a cost benefit analysis of, like, "well, this is how much it would cost me, my time, and my gas, etc. but this is what I'm getting out of it, whether that's money, video, photo's, networking, contacts, things of that nature." So sometimes, even if you're not making that much money on a show, you're still making really good 00:52:00progress in your- kind of your arc.

LK: What do you want the general public to know about Burlesque?

KW: I think the most important thing about Burlesque is that it's for everybody. You don't have to have a certain amount of money, or spend a certain amount of money. You don't have to have a certain costume, dance a certain way, have a certain dance background, look a certain way. Whether that be race, gender, body type. It just takes dedication to your art and creativity. It's very empowering, and I think that people just need to get into it, laugh, and immerse yourself in 00:53:00the glitter.

LK: Great, thank you.

KW: Thank you.