Sundae Sparkles Oral History Interview, December 3, 2019

LAURIE KURUTZ: Today is December 3rd, 2019. Would you please introduce yourself and tell us what you do?

SUNDAE SPARKLES: My name is Sundae Sparkles, I'm she/her, and I am a Burlesque performer.

LK: So, where were you born and where did you grow up?

SS: I was born and raised in Grants Pass, Oregon. I moved to Portland briefly. I went to floral design school and lived there for a few months, but then I came back.

LK: What did you do in your formative years that led you toward performance?

SS: I was always interested in dance. I was interested in theater, but I had a close friend who was very into theater and made the choice that I was going to be the dancer and she was going to be the actress and stuck with that. So, I did 00:01:00ballet and jazz dance, and just as much of dance as I could get my hands on until I met horses, and then I became a horse girl. As much as I was into horses, I wanted the performance aspect there, as well. I go into dressage, which is kind of like making your horse dance. So, I stuck with those through high school, until I was out of high school, and kind of teetered between dance and horses.

LK: What formal education or training do you have?

SS: As far as dance or performance, very little. I did some college, I went to design school for flowers, and that's pretty much it. Everything else is just kind of me. I mean, all through college, I took every art class that I could get 00:02:00my hands on. I grew up in an artistic family all the way from my grandparents to my parents, who were both art majors. I grew up in a craft store hobby shop and married an artist. So you know, I've dabbled. If it's artistic, I've touched upon it at some point.

LK: In those formative years, was there anyone who was an influence or an inspiration to you?

SS: I mean, that's just such a vast question. It doesn't pertain so specifically to the Burlesque side, but Alphonse Mucha has always been one of those artists that the beauty and the stylizing and just in general his bodies, the way he painted, I've always been drawn to. And so I think that when I costume or when I create pieces, that is in the back of my head, the way that he framed people and 00:03:00pieces and the flow. And then I remember very young I watched "Gypsy" and saw Gypsy Rose Lee and was like, "I don't know what this thing is, but I love it."

LK: And so, what year and how did you get started in Burlesque?

SS: I've got notes for that because that is a convoluted little story. I had my son in 1999 and was a stay-at-home mom. I hit a point where I just needed something, and so I started belly dancing in 2003 and met Darby Doll and became just immersed in belly dance for years. I competed and did showcases, and just very much loved belly dance. Then through one thing or another, my husband and I reopened a comic book store and it was beyond full-time. We started homeschooling our child, opened a comic book shop, and I stopped doing 00:04:00everything that was not those things. And lost a lot of my passion for my art, I guess is a way of putting it. And it was weird, it was just a crazy time. Then in 2008, I saw Tease-O-Rama here in Ashland and it was my first time I'd ever seen live Burlesque anywhere. And it was amazing. And so that was all within that same amount of time: we started the comic shop and I saw that and...

LK: Tease-O-Rama?

SS: Tease-O-Rama! Oh man, it was a traveling show that had rotating huge-name performers, and they would... I'm not completely sure, but I think they would 00:05:00have people who would travel the entire country with them and then they would pull in from the West Coast different people. And, I mean, on that I got to see Satan's Angel, with fire tassels and just I mean... And Catherine D'Lish and her martini glass and just... It was amazing. It was an amazing, inspirational thing, but I was at a point where I couldn't do any of that. I was in a comic shop where you're teaching small children and you're around all of that. So, it just kind of simmered in the back of my mind.

Then we sold the shop in 2014 and I threw my husband's 40th birthday party. I wanted to do something different. He's an artist, his best friend's an artist, and at the time ran an art college in Grants Pass. And so he let us use his 00:06:00space. And I wanted to do different little scenes with different models that they could come and draw or photograph, and have these little vignettes. And in between, I wanted Burlesque. And I wasn't at that point doing it myself, but I knew Darby was getting back into it. And so I invited her and I did a little birthday thing and she did an amazing fan act. And so, that was in March of 2014. And I heard about BurlyCon and I went, "I want to go to that."

LK: What was that?

SS: BurlyCon is amazing. I think it's the world's only, for certain the United States' only Burlesque convention and it's in Seattle, Washington every fall. At that time it was in October. And it's four days of learning and immersing 00:07:00yourself in the world of other performers and teachers. And going into it as a complete newbie, it was terrifying and amazing. I was by myself. My mom went with me. I was vending, I was supposed to be vending at a convention in Seattle that weekend and so I said, "Hey mom, you want to go vend for me this weekend while I go do this?" And so, that's what I did. I just went and I dove in. Coming from an area where there are no Burlesque classes, the closest is four hours away in Portland and you can't drive four hours for a weekly class. It just wasn't in my budget to be able to figure out a way to do that.

So, being able to go and have four days of learning how to twirl tassels! I had never had anything in my life that showed me that. Everything from how to sew a tear-away bra, like I had played on my own from YouTube videos, like in my own 00:08:00studio, like how can I make these things happen, but didn't have the background of how to create an act that incorporates the tease and those pauses, because as a belly dancer, your choreography is different structure. The pause to be able to remove something or pause to create that tease or that reveal, it's a completely different headspace.

Going in there with no knowledge was just amazing because I just started sucking it all up. And I took a class from Iva Handfull and I'm a rock girl. I love pop, but rock and metal is like my... And so, taking a class from her on choreographing and her way was just like... I remember I came home that weekend and my husband said, "I don't know what this weekend was, but you're glowing. 00:09:00Whatever this weekend gave you, I want you to have all the time. It's changed you." And it absolutely did. It was just absolutely amazing.

So the next August, it took me from then to August to create and talk with Darby and say, "I want to do this. How do I do this here?" And we had the opportunity to perform at, they do a horror film festival here Ashland, or they did at the time at the armory. And they gave us stage time and I said, "Okay, let's do this." And that was my first time on stage and it was a handful of people in the audience, but it was amazing. And it kind of took off from there, and that's my little...

LK: So, what do you do outside of performing?

SS: I am in manufacturing, but not really. My husband's an amazing artist and we have come from having a shop and selling the shop, to now we are full-time artists. And he is a cartoonist, he does pinups as well, and has made me amazing oils. And so we create from his artwork, we make products and then we vend. We have a huge booth set up that we do at comic conventions everywhere. We've been doing San Diego Comic Con for 18 years or something like that. We travel a lot. I'm gone at least once a month, if not a couple of times a month, traveling up and down the West Coast all the way to... I spent 13 days in Wisconsin this last summer, vending as a fair there. And then from there I drove to Boston and did a week in Boston before coming back. So, I'm on the road a lot for work, which 00:11:00makes scheduling shows difficult. I'm constantly like, "This would be really fun, but I'm going to be gone. Sorry!" So, yeah.

LK: And so, you've talked a little bit about the Burlesque community or the lack thereof in this area. So, what is this Burlesque community like and how is it different from others?

SS: The Burlesque community as a whole is amazing. It's the most inclusive group of people, and I feel like I'm in a relatively inclusive group for my work because, comic nerds, there's a camaraderie there. It's similar, but Burlesque is even more so. I don't think that I've met a more just loving group of people ever. Our area, being so small, we, Darby and I and a few other people who have 00:12:00been here with us from the beginning, have built our community. And so it's like we are bringing the performers in almost more than them coming to us and saying, "Hey, I hear you're producing a show. We'd like to be a part of it." Or, "Here's my act and I'm submitting that." It's more a matter of kind of helping them grow into some performer that can be a part of our show. And never having been a part of a different community, I can only touch upon...

One of my best friends who I met through Burlesque and lives in Chicago and who performs out there, and so I have been to shows out there and know her experience, it's huge in Chicago. Every weekend there are multiple shows. So it's a matter of if you're not part of a troupe, you apply to different shows or 00:13:00look for a troupe that is doing something similar and be able to just network within that city or even outside that city. I mean you're close enough, you could go to Madison or wherever and you have all these opportunities and you can be more niche.

If you're a big-bodied performer, there are troupes and shows specifically looking for you, or if you're a person of color then there are those shows that are looking... Versus a variety. Whereas here, where finding people that have a sparkle and bringing them and helping them, kind of grow them up to perform I feel like. So, I think that's kind of the difference we have being in as small of an area as we are here in Southern Oregon, versus even in Portland which has multiple shows and variety.

LK: Can you describe that festival circuit and how you apply, how you get into 00:14:00it, what that's like, who pays for what? Just give us a little snapshot.

SS: My festival experience has been relatively limited mostly because I am already committed on most of the weekends, it seems like. So, I have applied for a number of festivals and have performed at the Oregon Burlesque Festival, which was fantastic, just an amazing experience. And being able to go up there with my dance partner, Darby, was just fantastic. It was great. And it's nerve-racking, even more so than submitting to someone's show that you know, like they're doing a show in this bar and they're looking for an act that's food related so I'll submit, "Here are my food related acts," if you will.

A festival has higher stakes it feels like because it's bigger and it's more... 00:15:00And so you choose a festival and you will submit your act, your video to them, and pay the fee which is usually, on average, about $10-$25. A lot of times, if it's $25, you can submit two acts and they will choose from those if they want and then you wait. And you wait. And then you either get the, "Yay!" or the crushing and then you go cry in the bathtub and it's fine.

But the festival experience is really, it's very unique. It definitely brings a whole different feeling and I feel like you get to meet different performers from further away or from different avenues that you might not meet by just going to a local show because it's those bigger stakes. I've been lucky enough, I performed twice at the Seattle Marathon, which isn't a festival per se. It's a show, but it's kind of similar and it was always the Sundae after Burly Con. And 00:16:00so people from all over were there, so it kind of had the same festival feel of being able to perform with people that you might not normally because they're from Australia or they're from New York or...

LK: And so, traveling to perform: who pays for what? Housing, transportation, all of that.

SS: In my experience, it's always the performer. I'm sure, were you to reach the level of a headliner, that changes. Having brought a headliner in, it's a little different. But on the level I'm at, it's all on you. Luckily, it's such a tight knit community that if you know people you can always say, "Can I crash on your couch? I'm coming out there." And trying to book a circuit... So, if you know, if I'm going to California and I'm going to do this show, if I can book 00:17:00something on either side of it so that you're hitting two or three, it's definitely... And I, for the few times that I traveled further, tried to book it where I could be out there for work and then stay a week. Or I did Chicago. I did an amazing charity event that a friend of mine puts on, that's a hockey tournament during the day and then it's a Burlesque show in the evening. And so I stayed with her and got to go out there for that, and got some fun time in, as well as going to go watch hockey, and I got to perform. So, it has it all together.

LK: So, shifting to artistic aspects: What's your process for creating a new piece of Burlesque for yourself?

SS: My process is... Well, it depends. So, sometimes I get just a crazy weird 00:18:00idea. One of my acts that I'm best known for is my Bigfoot act. Being Pacific Northwest, it just kind of seems like it fit. And truthfully, I think I was at a costume shop and I was with my son and my husband, and they were talking about how they were going to do this art booth where they all dressed as gorillas and you had to buy your art from a gorilla. And so we were joking around looking at gorilla costumes and I saw this Bigfoot costume and was like, "Well, if you guys are gonna do that, I'm gonna make a Burlesque act where I end up as Bigfoot." And it was kind of almost like a "challenge accepted" kind of thing, and it just sat with me and it wouldn't leave me alone. And finally I was like, "I have to go buy a gorilla costume," which as of now is one of my more expensive costumes just because you're starting with a $100 piece of fur.

So it's like the concept comes and sometimes that concept comes from a piece of music and sometimes you have to find the music that fits. And for me, for that 00:19:00act in particular, the song "Believer" just kind of made me think, "Well, I believe in Bigfoot, so it makes sense." And then how do you then take your concept idea and the music and tell the story? The way I was kind of taught Burlesque structure is that there are three things that go into a great act, and that is your movement, your story, and your costume. And if you're strong in two of those, one of them can be slightly weaker, but if you have strength in all three, that's going to give you the best. So, it's a matter of going, "Okay, I have a costume idea. I'm gonna start out as an adventurer and then I'm going to end up as Bigfoot." I've got that basic idea there. I have my song that speaks to me and I know makes me excited to move to it. Now, how do I tell a story that the audience can understand with no words, with movement only? That works, especially for us, you never know what your stage environment is going to be. 00:20:00So, I have performed it on a huge stage where I can't get to the audience and there's a part of it that normally I am interacting with the audience. You're not always able to do that. I performed it in a dome tent on grass in 110° weather at a festival where, at the end, I'm in a full fur suit and I am dripping sweat from dancing for the full time. So, you just kind of have to be prepared, but be prepared to tell your story that you're making your act around within your three minutes to whatever you end up with, whatever your stage is.

So it's a lot of trial and error and I'm lucky enough to have a lot of creative people around me, so I can run through it and say, "Is this working? Do you get this?" Between my husband, and my parents are artistic people. I have friends I 00:21:00can send clips to and say, "What am I doing that's not working? How is this?" So I feel like that feedback is very helpful and I think that being able to run through an act a number of times. I've done that one, I can do it in my sleep. I've done it so many times, which then brings about another like, "Okay, it's getting stale. How do I make it new? What do I do to make it fresh again?" But for me, that's it. I'm always inspired by something and how do I expand upon that and bring the sparkles.

LK: So, shifting the topic a little: Cultural appropriation is talked about a lot in the Burlesque world. How do you define cultural appropriation, and how is that a consideration for you when you are creating performances?

SS: I would define it as someone taking something from another culture, say a 00:22:00white person taking something from an oriental culture, and being like, "Now it's mine. I'm going to make this amazing thing with it, and it's fine!" with no consideration to the fact that that just isn't, it's just not for you. And coming from my belly dance background, I have really sat with that a lot because when I started belly dance, that wasn't ever talked about. It was just, you're going there and it's just fine. You can wear whatever you want, and you can wear a bindi and do these things. And as I progressed in it and finally stepped away from it, that was a big part of it is just the difference between appreciation 00:23:00and appropriation. I can appreciate the music and I can love the costumes and I can want to know as much as I can about something without having it necessarily become that I'm trying to wear that as myself, as my...

I grew up in a nonreligious household, but we were very close friends with a Native American family who lived up the road from us and we spent a lot of time with them and went through a lot of their spiritual experiences. And kind of the same thing, I never would have thought, "Well, it's okay for me to take it upon me that I'm going to do this as my religion now." But being able to go through with them was beautiful. I feel like that's kind of the same thing of being able to appreciate it without having it become part of me. And that is always in the back of my head as I am creating acts.

I have a tendency to kind of be a little wacky. So, mine aren't necessarily... I haven't come across that as a problem so far in something because generally I'm like, "I'm gonna be a goose now." But I know it is more talked about and people are more aware of it in the Burlesque community than any other communities I've been a part of, and I appreciate that as a lot of ways that Burlesque is very aware of the diversity that is within it, and how to be aware of that. I don't know that I fully answered it, but...

LK: I'm hearing other people talk about respectability politics. Can you describe just a little bit about what that means to you?

SS: I don't know that I have an answer for that.

LK: That's fine. You've already described being in the creative industries, an entrepreneur. What are your skill sets in that?

SS: That is, I'm going to say, being able to have touched upon everything. Growing up not only with an artistic family, but growing up in a hobby and craft store, I have done everything from how to put together an RC airplane to full on sewing. My grandmother was a seamstress and I learned to sew with her. And then I went to school as a floral designer and still do that part-time. So, it's like creativity and taking an idea and finding a way to make it, is something that 00:26:00I've been lucky enough to have that be a part of my family. And I can go to my parents who are thoroughly supportive and be like, "I need help. How do I get this thing to work?" Or, "I need a box to do a cat act on." And my dad's like, "Okay, I'll build you something." You know, it's like I don't have time to do it myself.

So the skill sets, it's one of those things, if you want to do it yourself which is the most affordable way, you have to know how to put it together or know somebody who can help. If you can't sew, then know somebody who you can trade: I'll rhinestone this for you if you sew this for me. Verses, "Well, I'll just go buy it," because it gets so expensive. It was so expensive anyway, but especially if you're buying fully finished costumes. I can't even... I'm not at that point.

LK: People in Burlesque have told me it empowers them. What's your take on that?

SS: Absolutely. It is, by far, one of the most empowering things. And I came from, I've always felt very centered in myself and I've always felt very strong in myself. I was a very shy child and the idea, if you had told me at 12 that I would be on stage... I would be in ballet and I would be in the back. That would be my... Until I hit about 15 or 16, and actually through 4-H, I joined a group of camp counselors and as a leader of younger children you couldn't be that shy, quiet person. And so, a lot of the training that we did to be camp counselors, I 00:28:00still fall back on some of those things and, at that time, the ballet troupe I had been doing things with, I got a solo and I wasn't terrified of it. I was nervous, but I wasn't terrified. And I think those kinds of things went hand-in-hand in finding that way.

So then, I grew up in the '80s where it was big hair and big boobs and skinny is what you gotta be. And then, you know, I had a kid and I gained a lot of weight and from the outside never felt like I was going to get back to that point. I never felt that way from my family or my husband or any of that. It was always just part of that, just that, "I'm never gonna be that skinny, pretty girl again." And I had a fellow at a grocery store tell me, "You know, with your 00:29:00build, you really should have bigger boobs." And it was just that internalizing thing that just kind of sat there. And so getting into Burlesque and seeing we are all beautiful and we are all able to get up there and entertain and put on this performance that people are inspired by and entertained by turned on by and all of that was just... It was huge.

My first performance was the year I turned 40 and so I there was something about that, of being onstage, taking my clothes off in front of people at 40, having grown up as a nudist and never having any body shame that way, but being on stage and saying, "No. Now you're gonna look at me because I want to show it to you." It just was huge, being able to step out there in that way and show that. There's nothing else that compares to it for me. And I know, talking to other 00:30:00performers that kind of feel the same, when I'm walking down the street I don't want people looking at me, but when I get on stage then it's in my control and you can have what I'm giving you. It's huge. It's very empowering. That's just the word that is constantly there.

LK: So, you've talked about empowerment, you've talked about diversity in the Burlesque world. What are your thoughts about Burlesque as a force for social change?

SS: I think that from its origins, it's always been touching on the social politics of the day. That's just not going away, that stays. As much as there 00:31:00are shows that maybe on the surface look like, "Oh, it's just about being onstage and being pretty," it's, again, women on stage showing you what they want. It's men on stage showing you what they want. It's non-binary people being on stage showing you, "I'm here and you get this from me." That alone is a huge social change, but I think beyond that it, as a community, is very aware of the social issues of all of its people and is our very conscience of helping and moving forward. And I don't know that you could come into this art form... I don't think you would go far in this art form if you weren't aligned with 00:32:00helping and pulling in others, building others up. It wouldn't go. I just don't think that it would spread as well.

LK: What do you see as the future of Burlesque?

SS: I think it's just going to keep getting bigger. I think that as more people learn about it and see the shows and even in smaller towns, it's just going to continue to grow. I don't think there's any slowing it down. I think it has so much potential and it can be so vastly different that if the sparkles and the classic isn't for you, there's going to be a show out there that you can go to, watch, participate in, create that's dark and gritty and macabre and blood, and 00:33:00whatever it is that you're interested in. It's out there and, if it's not, it's time to create it. Make it happen.

LK: And so, final question: What would you like the general public to know or understand about Burlesque?

SS: Short answer is that it is not cheap and we want your tips. That it is an expensive art form and to support the art in coming to the shows and, yeah, tipping. As a larger answer, I think I would like the public to know that it is so beautiful and has so much history and has so much inclusivity from all 00:34:00around, that they are going to come here and see something that they probably won't see anywhere else. It's going to be something that is inspirational and it may be something that isn't for them. They may see an act that just is the complete opposite, but I think that's what art is. It should make you feel something and it doesn't necessarily have to make you feel something good. Art can make you feel something that you are uncomfortable with and that you need to sit with and understand why and what it is that it's trying to show you through that uncomfortable moment. And then come back and see it the next time and see what it does for you the next time, if you're in a different place. Give it a try.

LK: Thank you very much.