Robert Boyer Oral History Interview

RUTH KORNBERG: This is an interview with Robert Boyer at his home in northeast Portland on October 22, 2019. What we really want to do here in this interview is kind of a life history, obviously we can't really do a life history in a few hours, but we want to get not just general but specifics about your life and we're mainly interested in your experiences of living here in Oregon. But, also interested in, and we know you come from Philadelphia and how you got here and some of the differences. Let's just start out with let me ask you where you were born, where you grew up and tell us just a little bit about that background and 00:01:00then we'll go into next step of how you got here.

ROBERT BOYER: Well, I was born in Philadelphia in 1939. I got here two weeks early, so I messed up my mother's Thanksgiving holiday. I was born on Thanksgiving Day. I was the youngest child, I was the only child, but I was the youngest child in the family for about 8 or 9 years, so I had the older part of my family, my grandmother, grandfather, great aunt, and cousins. I was the youngest one, so I had to grow up listening and strict discipline until I went to, I was the only kid in the neighborhood; we were the only African American family in the neighborhood at that time. So, the nuns would see my playing with 00:02:00the other kids. We had Italians on the south side of the block and Irish on the north side of the block. All the kids went to Catholic school. The nuns saw me playing and then went and talked to my mom and convinced her to send me to Catholic school. So, I went to St. Malachy Elementary School from the first to the eighth grade and the nuns would keep me after school because my mother was one of those maids that made $5 a day and 25, 30 cents car fair. They knew that she made minimum wage. So, after school they gave me a snack and made sure I did my homework, and until I went to the eighth grade. Then I went to an all-boys Catholic high school, a Roman Catholic high school for boys and I started going 00:03:00there in '54. I graduated in '58.

Then, I developed running track. I was real good in track and high hurdles. I also started going to the 23rd PAL, called the PAL of Champions in north Philadelphia. Out of that PAL six years. Joe Frazier came out of there, Sonny Liston, Bone Crusher, Tim Witherspoon, Larry Holmes used to come up there. I began to meet a lot of the champions, and they expressed to us about discipline and the reason why we train, the reason why you just don't get up one morning and get in the ring. A champion shouldn't fight without training. So, I learned 00:04:00that discipline, how to prepare. When I graduated from high school, I had four years of math, four years of science, and four years of language. So, I took Latin and French. When I graduated in June, I got a job in July and it was a buddy system in the Air Force. A couple of my buddies, I talked to them about Army, Marines, Navy, and they said well, Air Force is probably the best because my hobby was fixing all the radios in my family. I had little cathode-ray tubes that you could test. Then you go from one phase to another and after it didn't phase the amperage, then you would check that out with a tube tester. If enough amperage didn't go to one phase it either had to be the tubes or cold solder 00:05:00joint, if the sound didn't come out the other end. Well, I used to fix all the radios in the family. When I took my test in the Air Force, they told me-I went to a class before I went into the service at, it was called, Drexel Institute had had a class for electronics. They taught us about electronics. So, when I went in the service I already had that knowledge of electronics. Unfortunately, I took a bypass test to show your knowledge in certain areas, and dog gone it, I didn't have to go to tech school Biloxi, Mississippi, so I just went in communications on the job training, because I had the knowledge and I knew about the names of the tubes and all that kind of electronic stuff. I started working 00:06:00on multichannel transmitters and receivers in Texas.

RK: in the Air Force?

RB: In the Air Force. I stayed two years in southwest Texas.

RK: What years was that?

RB: That was '59 and '60, or a later part, or early part of 1960. Then they sent me into British Columbia, top secret radar site around Canada, mid Canada. There, we could identify the altitude and direction and the speed of aircrafts. After aircrafts got past the early warning system in Alaska, if we couldn't identify, we could identify the speed, the direction, and altitude of aircrafts unknown. Well, we found out. If not, on the other side of the 15 minutes we had 00:07:00the ability to pull the Nikes out of the silo. We had to guard McChord and the submarine base in Barrington. That was our job. Then, they said, well, Boyer you're going to Portland. I said, alright. Well, it'll take me about 2 hours, two and a half hours to get to Philly. No. You're going to Portland, Oregon. Oregon? So, it was 5 of us. Said, where's Oregon. They said that little state between California and Washington. Said, well. I got here in '61 and just fell in love with the state. A big difference from Philadelphia. One of my friends said, yeah, well, we have a million and a half people in Oregon. Right? We have a million and three quarters in Philly, so I don't know what you're talking about. Since I've been here in Portland, Portland has blessed me.

RK: So, when you first came here, then you were released from the-

RB: Air Force. Got my discharge. I didn't go back to Philly.

RK: So, then, where did you strike out to live and what was the process of trying to find a place and stuff?

RB: Well, I had no problem finding an apartment. One of the nurse's husbands, his name was Alfred Richardson, and he had an apartment and so his wife introduced me to him. He said, yeah, Boyer when you get ready just let me know. So, when I was discharged, I paid I think four or five month's rent ahead of time. It was only $50 a month for a studio apartment. I had transferred from communications to vehicle maintenance in the Air Force because I fell in love with the '62 Pontiacs [laughs]. Of course, I bought one. But I learned how to 00:09:00work on cars. When I was discharged, I started working at a car lot, or at a mechanic's shop. Then at that time they had a Black racing club called the Chevrons. All the members had a Chevy, so we all had, I had one, too. I was, those, a lot of people had stick shifts, so we had to put in pressure plate and if anything was wrong was that we put in the clutch. So, I started doing that and a lot of the guys on the air base they needed cars. They wanted nice cars. So, they would call me. I would tell them we put a new pressure plate and a new clutch in a Chevy or a Ford or Pontiac, whatever. They would go to the car lot. 00:10:00I would give them the license number and they would pick the car out. So, the owner, Max Agner, came to up the mechanic shop and said who's this Bob Boyer? I said, me. Well, you're selling more cars working on them than my salesman. How about coming down and becoming a car salesman? So, I became a car salesman at Sagna Motors at Union and Fargo. I did that for a year and then I started working at the shipyard as a sand blaster and ended up being a painter. I worked on sand blasted the ships. Oregon shipyards was closing down, so I sand blasted ships and then painted them and then also I went on the St. Johns Bridge. I sand blasted St. Johns Bridge and painted it. Then people liked the way I worked. I 00:11:00had that work discipline. You never know who's watching you and who's looking at you. So, one of my foreman say, Boyer, how much education do you have? I said, well, I got, I was a math major in high school and I was a technician in the Air Force then a mechanic. He said, well, look, the Southern Pacific Railroad is looking for some African Americans as a test, we wanted at least 10 and my brothers one, and I'd like to recommend you.

I went down to the train master's office in my red lead, talked to them, and he said, well, you really want this job. So, we're going to give it to you. We want you in Eugene at the hump yard at 8:00 tomorrow morning. Well, I went home and 00:12:00about, so I started working on my car, make sure I could get down there. I got a phone call. The clerk said, Boyer, did you know anything else about railroading? I said, yeah, I used to lay track temporarily when I got laid off from the shipyard for the Northern Pacific Railroad. So, I was a real John Henry. I pounded those spikes for $2.50 an hour. He said, well, you don't have to go to Eugene. You just go to the Brooklyn yard, because you have your railroad watch. You have your schedules. Then you have laid track, so you know the basic functions of the railroad. I said, yeah. He said, well, why don't you come to Brooklyn yard instead of going to Eugene? I went to Brooklyn yard and I started. 00:13:00In 90 days, I got promoted to a foreman. So, I was a yard foreman for the 77th railroad for 5, 6 years before I went on the waterfront for 30. On the railroad I got tired of getting laid off in the wintertime. If the river would raise up you couldn't take a train across the steel bridge because the water'd be too high because ships couldn't get under it. I worked as a casual on the waterfront for 18 months. Then I got hired. I worked graveyard. As a casual, low seniority, you go anywhere they tell you to go. I worked in Camas in 1968. I worked in West 00:14:00Linn. I worked at Wauna, Oregon. Different places that the tug boats would pull the barges. We had to unload the barges. Worked in Astoria at the Bumblebee factory. It gave me a better understanding of how Oregon was laid out. After working there almost 30 retired, I retired. At the same time, I showed some leadership ability. That's what they told me and so they also paid for my education, my college education. I was able to, I asked the top management to point out the classes they'd want to see in a supervisor in management. They told me public speaking, analysis of different situations, how to solve 00:15:00problems, accounting, and marketing. So, I ended up with a degree in business management from Marylhurst. I never dreamt that I would graduate from a Catholic elementary school, an all-boys Catholic high school, and then graduate from a Catholic college. Marylhurst was an all-woman Catholic college when I started in '67. It changed when I got there.

RK: Were you the only man?

RB: No. At that time there was a few of us, probably 3 or 4 of us, and then it changed when a lot of the graduates from Portland Community College started coming there and other colleges. We went and approached the board of directors 00:16:00and board of regents, saying how are you going to call this Marylhurst school for Catholic college for all women and we got all these men here? So, they changed the name in later part of, I think it was the winter of '74, changed it. I graduated in '77, so I was the first African American male to graduate from Marylhurst and probably one of the top 3 males to graduate from there then.

RK: Let's go back, then, to, well, before we go back, let's talk a little bit about your experience in the college. So, you were one of the very few men. Were you also one of the very few African Americans as well?

RB: Yes.

RK: Was there, what were the relations like with the students and the teachers, the social relations?

RB: Well, one of the things, when I first was interviewed there and talked at the classes, all I was saying I worked for Crown Zellerbach. The folks didn't know I was a labor person. Many of the discussions, I would come up with a solution to the problem that they were talking about that they had with the workers. Not until I graduated they found out I was a worker. I wasn't management. But, getting along with the students I had to be focused. So, I was working different ships. I had already finished Portland Community College for five years, because my working different shifts I couldn't have continuous classes. I had to take a class. I missed one or two sessions and then I would 00:18:00pick up another one. That's why it took my 5 years at PCC. I started out my junior year at Portland State. I went there and then into my senior year, I went to Marylhurst. I got my last 30 hours at Marylhurst. [Break in recording]

RK: Okay, so now, let's go back to then when you first arrived here. Just in very short words, give a few little incidents of what was different about Portland and Philadelphia.

RB: Okay. Well, number one when I got here I found out that the state population was a million and a half. In Philadelphia itself was a million three quarters. 00:19:00Then the African American community was very small. When I say very small, so I decided to the history. I checked with the census bureau, find out at Portland State I was the only African American Boyer in the state. Then, the African American community was, at that time, was 18,000. I went to the census printout and saw that they had catalogued by numerical, the different years that African Americans was there. By that time in '61 it was 18,000, according to the census. In Philadelphia, we have 30 houses, three stories high on one side of the street. So, 18,000 folks would be about 10, 11 blocks, or 12 blocks in north Philadelphia. Well, since I was an only child and I could get along with 00:20:00different groups of folks, so, I started making friends and getting along with people. Working at the shipyard I learned, I met many of the large families, like the Allens and the Kellys and the Browns and so forth, the Mangnums. I got to meet many of the men who had 5, 6 kids or more.

RK: There were the big African American families?

RB: Yes, who worked at the shipyard. Then, I still wanted to continue my training as a boxer, so I went, now it's called Matt Dishman Center. Then it was Knott Street. Everybody called it Knott Street. That was a converted athletic building from an old elementary school. So, I got to know a lot of the guys. So, 00:21:00I had told them that I knew more about Knott Street boxing team than I knew about the city of Portland. They said what do you mean? I said the Knott Street boxing team traveled. Oh. I said, yeah they traveled to different states, to New York, to box, and different places that we also went at Philadelphia. Well, the 23rd boxing PAL in Philadelphia was known as the PAL of Champions. Now, let me explain that. A lot of champions came out of there. For the last 50 plus years, there's always been somebody from Philadelphia, 23rd PAL in that top weight class either champions or in the top 5 or 10. They are still doing that now. Here in Portland I got to meet the different families, and the people knew I was 00:22:00respectful. So, us Air Men, we used to give skating parties at the Imperial Skating Ring. So, we got to know a lot the other folks here. Then we had a racing club and we met a whole bunch of other folks. At that time, in the mid '60s they started the War on Poverty programs. The one I first joined was called the War on Poverty Program and then it was Portland Metropolitan Steering Committee. Then I was the youngest person elected to the model cities program. Then we brought in Head Start. I came up, I matured here in Portland, on non-profits.

RK: Tell us a little bit about those programs and what each of them was.

RB: Well, the War on Poverty program, it was to give the folks, it was under the 00:23:00umbrella of President Johnson's War on Poverty. Never won a battle, but it was called War on Poverty. It gave the African American community an opportunity to move up the ladder with their administrative expertise. As folks started moving up the ladder and they were able to buy homes and get their education. A lot of folks associated with it today, that's where they started. In fact, one of my friends, Senator Jackie Winters, she started in the Model City-well, this was one of her jobs in the Model Cities Program. We met her then. Then, one of our African American city Counselman, Charles Jordan, I was on the committee that hired him out of California. He did well here in Portland. Well, I had the 00:24:00opportunity to meet a number of the politicians. I was able to meet Ron Wyden, Senator Wyden when he was with the Gray Panthers. Then I became a precent person, then a district leader in the Democratic Party, then eventually ended up being chairman of Multnomah County Democratic Party. A lot of the politicians who was on the city council, county commissioners, and representatives and state senators, I knew when they started. I mean, like Earl Blumenauer and so forth. You see how people grow.

At the same time, I grew. I could call someone a politician and they would either, their staff or they would call me back, because I enjoyed giving them, I 00:25:00didn't, at my age now, I don't give bad advice. When governor, when Kate Brown was running for state rep and then when she ran for state secretary of state, and when she ran for governor. We were friends all that time back County commissioners. I knew Deborah Kafoury's mom Gretchen Kafoury, so she was our state rep. But at the same time, I moved up the ladder of making, we call it networking. I enjoyed that, but this was one of the classes I had in college that really stuck with me, is networking and organization, learning different people. When I got in labor as working the shipyard then working at the railroad, then working on the waterfront, with all those 40 years in organizing 00:26:00labor. So, at the present time, last 14 years I've been working with a pre-apprenticeship program training young men and women how to get into the trades. That has broadened my perspective, my network. After I retired from organizing labor in '94, or '95, since there's a program called, I was saying, Model Cities, I was the youngest person, well, we got together, the committee, and we wanted to have citizens' input of what was going on. So, we created the Neighborhood Associations. The city, especially Neil Goldschmidt, mayor Goldschmidt, enjoyed that so much, saw the positiveness of it. So, it went from 00:27:009 neighborhood associations to over 90. This gives citizens an opportunity to make a presentation, take some of their plans to the city council. First they would get neighborhood support. Then they would go to the other neighborhood associations in their unit and then they would go as a unit with getting citizen input to the mayor and the city council. They would listen to them.

RK: The fact that you were an African American, did that, in what ways that influence your networking process and people's attitudes towards you?

RB: Well, one of the things I found out from a kid, is that if you had ability and people recognize that, so when I ran track in Philly, people recognized that 00:28:00and talking about the ability. When I became a boxer, when you get in the ring, it's not who you are or who you look like, it's what you can do. So, I learned those lessons. Whenever I got in a debate, I'd say I'll make sure I prepare just like in the ring. You do your sparring and you prepare for the big fight and you go in with knowledge. I like to use athletics when I'm trying to explain different issues to folks. For instance, when you're in life and you're at a situation, at a point, and then I bring in athletics and say well, you get to kick off and you're at the 15-yard line. You look back and see you're at the 15-yard line and you see how far you have to go. Then after 3 plays or 3 years or 30 years, whatever, you say well now I'm up to the 50 or 55. I see how far I 00:29:00have to go and look back and see how far I've come. Using those athletic characteristics is what has driven me, been my support in politics, in neighborhood associations, and in life.

RK: That's interesting. Now, what about your, we were sitting here in your home with your wife. So, I do know that at some point in your life you established a family and maybe more than one, I don't know. Would you like to tell us a little bit about your family life and your children and that part of your life?

RB: Well, Judy and I just celebrated our 38th wedding anniversary. I courted her for 2 years. I always say 40. She has been a blessing to me, family, foundation, 00:30:00we have had a property management business for almost 40 years. We have rentals. My children, my youngest daughter's a Ph.D., vice principal in one of the high schools. One of my daughters has a beautician business for the last 20 years. The children have been a blessing and grandchildren and great grandchildren. We've had a blessing. It's been a blessing for marriage.

RK: So, how many children do you have and is this a first marriage or second marriage?

RB: Well, this is my third and we had 6 biological and 18 grand, and 21 great grand.

RK: Can you keep track of them?

RB: Oh, yeah [laughs]. At different holidays or Christmas we buy gift certificates that way we don't get them mixed up. So, we buy our grandchildren, if they have great grandchildren, we buy a gift certificate for the family. Then, the older ones we give them individual. It's a blessing. We have a whole, well, now, 4 generations here in Portland. Yeah, getting here in '61 and children, grandchildren, and great great grandchildren and me.

RK: That's a lot. What changes do you think have been taking place from one 00:32:00generation to another?

RB: Well, I look at electronics. I can recall very clearly the computers we worked on in the '50s, those huge monsters. Smartphone right now, if you had the same applications and memory on the computers in the '50s, you'd need an 18-wheeler to pull all that, because the memory on those computers in the '50s was reel-to-reel tape and the input. This room right here is just big enough just for data entry and that was paper, punch cards, things like that. Then, each unit had to have an air condition, because the tubes would heat up, 00:33:00cathode-ray tubes would heat up. We could, to fix a computer in the '50s took us less than 10 minutes. Of course, they were built like the units on a stereo system. We would pull one unit out and put another unit in, but make sure the amperage was transferrable from one unit to another. Youngsters they ask the questions, well, I'm in Vancouver and you're in Portland. This radio station I can get down as far as Burnside and I can't get this station anymore. Well, that's because of the atmosphere. Atmosphere, what do you mean by the atmosphere? Well, the ionosphere in the daytime is higher. It comes down lower at night. Then, it angles. The vibrations on the crystals vibrates. Oh. Well, we 00:34:00didn't know that. It plays a big difference. You're surprised you're driving the car you get one station in Portland. Then you get to southeast you don't get it, but at nighttime you can maybe pick it up in Salem.

RK: Let's go back also, then, to your first place that you lived was in a little studio apartment. What part of Portland was that?

RB: That was northeast Portland, right at Union and Fargo.

RK: Union and Fargo. That's what you said, yeah. Then, tell us a little bit about each place where you lived and why you moved there and who was with you and what was-

RB: Okay. Well, we moved at 14th Place and Emerson. I was able to buy a house for $6,000. My down payment was my sweat equity. I was already a painter. So, my 00:35:00first wife and I we bought that. $85 a month for 10 years. Then I bought my second house at Mallory and Killingsworth. That was $11,500 in 1971. At the present time, they built four $500,000 townhouses right next to it. So, that went up in value. Then, my third house I bought at 15th and Going, and I bought it for $50,000 in I think it was '79. I just sold it a couple years ago. I paid $50,000, and sold it for almost $400,000. We've seen the growth, for instance 00:36:00when I moved to my first studio apartment at Union and Fargo, then I was able to join a group of people and we changed the name from Union Avenue to King Boulevard. We've seen growth in the community. As the youngest person on the Model City Planning Board, and we've seen the growth of Head Start, because it was only, Model Cities was only supposed to be a 5-year demonstration program. But look at Head Start is still here. So, I grew up on War on Poverty program, so non-profits. I'm still on a non-profit board, a couple, Constructing Hope. We train young people how to get into the construction trade. I usually give or I have a time that the director let me give orientation to the new students and 00:37:00then I usually give closing remarks at their graduation. Last week they needed 1,000 carpenters here in Portland, 1,000 electricians, 1,000 sheet rock, 1,000 roofers because the growth. There's over $3 billion worth of growth construction going on in Portland. We were the premiere pre-apprenticeship program in the city of Portland right now. We average 25 students, 3, 4 times a year. When we graduate those students, some stay. A few may drop off. But they go right into the apprenticeship program. We have the itinerary of the trades that we work by. 00:38:00There are certain things, first think you know we teach them safety. Then we teach them how to identify the 2'x4's, 2'x6's, 2'x12's. Then we go on field trips, where they're building a building, so they can identify what the people are doing.

A lot of youngsters have, do not understand the jargon for electricians. For instance, there's heavy electrical and low. Young ladies come up to me and say, yeah Mr. Boyer, our dad told us about becoming electrician and we don't know the difference. We don't want to climb any poles. Said, well, if you don't want to climb your poles, that means you want to go to low voltage. What is low voltage? Oh, that's security. Oh, you can put in security systems. Oh, okay. And they 00:39:00graduated and they expressed to their trainers what they wanted to do, and they made sure that they put them in low-voltage. It's so much that these youngsters they miss, especially in mathematics. I was telling Greg, it's kind of strange, because when I got here I said how do these kids graduate without 4 years of math, 4 years of science, or 4 years of language, but that was college prep back in Philly. So, here the youngsters say well I talk to them about, I give a class on fractions. Say, fractions? What are fractions? I said, when's the last time you took a fraction? Oh, we took that in the fourth grade. I didn't understand it then. I don't understand it now.

RK: So, are the people that are participating in this program, is there a, I know it's not going to be many because of the ratio of actual African Americans 00:40:00and Whites that live here, but does it have an over-representation of African Americans or?

RB: It's half.

RK: What are the demographics?

RB: It's about 50%. We're a 501(c)(3), so we accept all the students who come in here. We had students come down from Longview. Every day they were never late. We had kids coming from Corbett. Was never late. Kids come up from different areas, Gresham, whatever. We say we have a good relationship with the northwest labor council, with the different trades. We have trade people form the trades come in at certain times. We're talking about surveying, heavy equipment, electrical, carpentry, roofing, framing, steam fitting, plumbing, all the trades 00:41:00are represented and their now board, which I'm on the board last 14 years, are made up of representatives from Hoffman, which is the largest construction company in the state of Oregon. Then business agents from electrical, from labor, from plumbing, and then they have an opportunity to come and give a presentation so the youngsters, I can call them youngsters, the young people, so they can understand what they're getting into. Then we also explain to them that if when they go through apprenticeship they have to keep a record of what they do, because say for instance, they say well, I really, I want to go to a warmer climate. I want to go to Florida. Well, they have to take that apprenticeship 00:42:00tracking where they need to go. Or, if they become journeyman people, then we call our travelers. They can take their travelers and go to other cities and states. With the boom, the building boom here in Portland, it's fantastic. We've had some of our graduates end up becoming contractors. Kids they call back, oh, Mr. Boyer, we've finished our journeymanship and now I'm working as a contractor. I'm doing this. Thanks for all the help.

RK: I'm going to kind of veer away a little from this aspect and ask you a little more about your social life, what are your interests? What do you do for recreation? I don't suppose you box anymore?

RB: [Laughs] I still exercise. I take Tai Chi. So, I do that not for strength. That's for flexibility. When I got into my 70s, no problem bending down but the problem was getting up. Those joints say, hey, okay it's time to quit. But I'm still on 3 or 4 boards. I just stepped down from being the commander of an organization of veterans called NABVet: National Association for Black Veterans. We help veterans get their benefits. Then, I'm on the board of Constructing Hope. This is my fourth, fifth year because I just, carpentry was my hobby and then I'm at church, my church life. Then, I'm on the board for property tax 00:44:00appeal for Multnomah County. This is my 10th year doing that. Then as a whole, I call old statesman, well, I used to be a state senator. I took Senator Bill McCoy's place when he died because the wife and I we were involved in a program called Operation Big Vote. We were going down registering people to vote and we helped create District 18. Senator Bill McCoy, no State Representative Bill McCoy. Then, got appointed by the Multnomah County Commissioners to be state senator over two representative districts. People knew me from going around knocking on doors, getting people registered to vote, and certain issues, like changing the name of Union Ave to King Boulevard, so they knew me. Then they knew that whenever I got involved in an issue, I would do my homework. I began 00:45:00speaking at different opportunities, and so people began to understand that I had some political background.

RK: Tell us more about that, your whole life in politics.

RB: Well, when I first got involved in politics was in the mid '60s. Emanuel Hospital decided to expand and Portland Development Commission was their, end up being a nemesis in the community. Well, Emanuel Hospital's on the west side of Vancouver at Morris and Stanton, the hospital. They wanted to expand. So, PDC decided-

RK: What is PDC?

RB: Portland Development Commission decided to demolish 167 homes on the west side of Vancouver from Fremont all the way down to Russell. So, when they did that, I knew some of my friends had homes and lived in that area. So, we were able to contact some folks in the community and we created a program, an organization called the Emanuel Displaced Persons Association. They created that, and so many of the people were renters. The few people that owned their homes, we saw in the mailer that if a home owner had to be displaced because of a hospital, a school, a freeway, something like that they could get a $5,000 00:47:00relocation grant. Some of my friends, I talked to them, and they said, yeah we will do that. They didn't want to get a low price on their home at that time. I made a presentation before Mayor Schrunk and the city council and recommended that they do something to help the people. Portland Development Commission put two trailers at Vancouver and Ivy to help the folks transfer from their home in the Emanuel area that they were going to demolish and gave them a little money to move other areas of the city. I got involved in that.

Then, registered people to vote and then we were able to, we were at that time, 00:48:00I started going to PCC. No, it was Cascade Christian College. I said, well, a little money if followed the students going from our local high schools, I think it was Jeff[erson] and Roosevelt, Benson or one of the other schools. The little money followed them. They could get little scholarships to go over to PCC. I said, well, so I talked to the director of the Model Cities Program, Charles Jordan, said, since we meet here, it's in the community, why don't we change the name. I talked to the director of Portland Community College, said we need to name this your Cascade campus. He says, well, I don't know. I says, well, our 00:49:00next meeting. So, I went and lobbied the folks in my community who were representative on the Model City Planning Board, and they brought the question up. We're going to change this to PCC Cascade Campus. So, we were able to change the name. RK: What was it in yourself that made it possible for you to take on these leadership roles? Somebody else comes to Portland, they have a similar background to yours. Then, you know, you go and live in your neighborhood and you have your family and you go to church and do whatever you do for recreation, but you don't have whatever that is that makes you be active, to take leadership.

RB: Well, one of the things that happened, I think after becoming a yard foreman 00:50:00at the Southern Pacific Railroad, I take the work environment that I'm in and I transferred those characteristics to other situations. For instance, when I build a train going to Eugene, I had to make sure that if we have to drop off 10 cars in Salem that they would be on the end of the train. See, a breakman is just a switchman on the road. The way we build trains, we build them according to stops. So, if I had one in Woodburn or Brookings, or Kaiser, they would be on the end before they got to Salem. So, it would be easy for a switchman to unhook the trains and drop them off. Well, I look at, that's the way I try to solve 00:51:00problems and look at situations. Where is the most serious problem? I look at problems like hurdles. When hurdles are on the front of you, that's how I become a high hurdler. You have to jump over the most serious problem first.

For instance, when I talk to young kids, and they say, yeah, Mr. Boyer, well, this is what I did at King facility for the school district. These youngsters coming in for, at that site we had state juvenile probation and the county juvenile probation office. If I didn't know the kids, I knew their parents or their grandparents. If the kids come in with their pants sagging, I would stop 00:52:00them and explain to them why their pants were sagging. The thing I would tell them, I said, you know what a penguin is? Yeah, I know. You ever seen a penguin run? Yeah. They can't run fast, can they? That's why the big whales eat them up. Oh. I said, now you ever kids getting shot? Getting hit? Because they can't run. Oh. Well, I tried to give them a situation where they can understand the lesson I'm trying to tell them. So, the parents would come in say Mr. Boyer thank you. I've been trying to talk to that boy [laughs], and thank you for explaining to them. Or, when I taught the Sunday kids about being tough. I said, you're real tough, huh? Yeah. I said, okay. Ever knock anybody down? No. Ever knock anybody 00:53:00out? No. How many fist fights you have? Oh, 4 or 5, 3 or 4 whatever. Oh. You ever had about over 50. No. People ever try to take your clothes? No. Well, the lesson is you need some knowledge. So, if you want to be a fighter, you need to get in the ring. That's where you need to fight at. But if you want to gain knowledge and respect, this is the people you have to associate yourself with. Oh, because look at all your friends who are hard headed. Look where they're at. They're doing time. I don't want you to do that. You have to go another way. I try to use life experience to explain to young people how they can do better. I find myself as being a senior, a senior is to pass on knowledge and then most of 00:54:00all understanding. So, I try to do that.

RK: It sounds like from the very beginning you had that part of your personality was already there leading the way. In jumping back, you lived in these different houses that you've bought and lived in. They were all in the northeast area of Portland?

RB: North and northeast.

RK: Uh-huh. Tell me about the different neighborhoods where you did live and what it was like living there and who you were living with at those times, your relation with neighbors.

RB: Well, from my first house to this one, we lived in four or five different 00:55:00houses. Being the only child, I knew it's better working with your neighbors. You don't have to love your neighbors. You need your neighbors, because if your house is on fire it's your neighbors if you're at work then they would call the fire department. The skills I would gain, for instance when I was working at the railroad I got laid off. Like I told you, I was tired of getting laid off in the wintertime. Well, my neighbor, his name is Ralph, he said Bob, you've been laid off work. I said, yeah. He said, I know you can go down there and work with me. I straightened out bumpers. So, I started doing that. I said, it's always nice 00:56:00to get to get to know your neighbors, have a cup of coffee with your neighbors, because if you have a certain problem, they can help you. For instance, when I was cutting grass on my lawn, another neighbor said, hey Bob, I see you got that hand edger. Yeah, well, why don't you borrow my gas edger. People would come and help you out. Some of the kids, they knew I enjoy working on cars because we had a racing club. They would come on over and ask me about how to fix a car, how to change a carburetor, so, I took a class at Portland Community College how to rebuild carburetors, four-barrel carburetors. Well, we needed that because we were racing. Then, they found out how to put oil in the rear end and take out 00:57:00the technical part of cars. You learn that by observation. When I would look at the master mechanic at the shop, he taught me a lot of things. So, that was one environment.

In another environment I took a class on woodworking from a master carpenter. He was about 83. He showed me how to build a deck. At the time on the waterfront, you called a dunnage, a 2'x4', I mean 2'x6's. It would happen one end of the 2'x6' would be crushed, well maybe that was 9'. I laid out my deck for 7', 2'x6'. So, what are you doing with all those 2'x6'? We're throwing them away. I 00:58:00said, I was seeing them throw away. They had nails and whatever. I got permission and the slip to take them home, pulled the nails out, cut the bad ends off and build a deck. The master carpenter showed us how to take 3 dimensions to get our permit, and how we should have blocks under the deck for support. He taught us how to build a deck and so that increased the market value of the house. That was it. Then, I wanted to put a - learning people in the neighborhood to get acquainted. I wanted to put a dryer in my basement. Well, one of my neighbors said, hey, look all you have to do is go down to Sears, get a book and take the type of box that you have, your electrical box, and they 00:59:00probably have a book on that. Well, I went down. A salesman told me what I needed to do. My neighbor told me how, what kind of ¾" plywood I should put on the board to put a female plug. So, I say, well what is, how come it looks different from the regular AC plug? They said, well that's 240. What's 240? Yeah, that's for the dryer. That takes more amp-age to run it. I said, mm. He said, that's not. He said, what did you do in the service? I said, well, communication. He said, well you just put them together. What? Yeah, that's a gang switch to a 120 [laughs], and here's the switch. I put that in, and put in the plug and it worked. So, that's why I said you don't have to love your 01:00:00neighbors; you need your neighbors. I began to learn the names of all the neighbors on my block. When we created the neighborhood associations, that's who I went to. I talked to the people and they got on our board and in King Neighborhood and Vernon and Humboldt. So, when we put the Neighborhood Associations together, this is how I was able to say collaborate. So, from that I ended up meeting the different pastors of the churches. I began to explore and learn the different individuals in the community. That helped me grow.

RK: Let's go back a little. You were senator during what years?

RB: '96.

RK: From '96.

RB: Yeah, I took Senator Bill McCoy's place when he died.

RK: So, was it for, then did you run again?

RB: No. When I found out that, after experiencing traveling back and forth to Salem, and the money that they paid, I couldn't afford the cut in pay. I just filled his spot. Just for a year. I didn't want to run again.

RK: So, when he, so then you did run for a whole election, I mean you went through the whole process of an election.

RB: No. I got appointed.

RK: You were appointed.

RB: Yeah, I was appointed. That's why I only did that for a year.

RK: Ah-ha.

RB: That was '96. That was the largest exodus of state senators in Oregon history, because then they were talking about having the extended period, because it was every other year. A lot of the state senators, when Goldschmidt was speaker of the senate then. Then he went on to run for U.S. senator. Many other senators were business people and lawyers, that they had to go back to their jobs. At that time, I was working for the school district as a manager.

RK: Tell us about that, your work with the school district.

RB: Well, at the King Neighborhood Facility was a collaboration of a number of organizations that got together in the '70s through the Model Cities Program to 01:03:00build a facility where we could more or less house the different non-profits. So, we were able to get the DeNorval Unthank., Dr. Unthank's son. Dr. Unthank was our third African American doctor in the state of Oregon. So, DeNorval was his son who was in Eugene. We were able to persuade him to come up here and draw the plans. So, he drew the plans for the King Facility, which was on the south end of King Elementary School. Then, the city, PDC, knocked down some houses, so we could have a parking lot and close off Wygant Street, that went all the way to Union Avenue, build a King Park extension of, just to have a nice park to go 01:04:00through. They also built a tennis court, a tennis court right there. James Loving was the first manager for the King Neighborhood Facility. Then, Mr. Ford, Charles Ford, and then when I retired out of organized labor, Charles Ford and some other people came and persuade me to throw my hat in the ring to be manager, and this was '95. So, I got hired to be the manager of the King Neighborhood Facility. I did that for 10 years. There we had state juvenile probation, Multnomah County juvenile probation.

We also had a community courtroom. Then we had northeast coalition office. Then we had the neighborhood mediation. Then we had 3 cubicles that we could rent to small non-profits that couldn't afford the brick and mortar. They would be stationed there. There also we had, I'm trying to think of the name-not Black educational center. Becky Black had a program there that she trained the youngsters. It was an after school program for educators. They trained the kids. I'm trying to think of the name of it, but then different organizations would come in. We had the NAACP for a while. We had all the organizations, now have 01:06:00SCI in the building. It was part of the facility was for temporary non-profits and before they went on they got to brick and mortar. We had neighborhood meetings there. We had, different organizations had socials there. It had a nice courtyard and we could have different activities in the courtyard for folks. We arranged, at that time, we was able to get the money from HUD to build it. Then after 20 years it transferred to the city, but the school, Portland Public Schools, had the janitorial and management. It doesn't belong to the school 01:07:00district. It belongs to the city.

RK: When you had socials and you did those activities, was this mainly African Americans? Was it a mixed group?

RB: No. it's for everybody. Then different organizations have meeting space. They come in there and ask for meeting space. Then, when I was there we had the opportunity to have the Good in the Hood had come to the community. Well, Paul Knauls is my hero here in town. Him and one of the national blues singers, Norman Sylvester, said, Mr. Boyer we would like to have the Good in the Hood here. I said, okay what do you need?

RK: What is the Good in the Hood?

RB: Good in the Hood is, we have, it's 3 days. We have food. We block off 6th street and we have food. We have 20, 30 different performances by all types of 01:08:00folks, from dancers to Native American, to different blues entertainers that come in, different song entertainers. We have step dancing. It was a big community picnic. We have a parade, and the last few years we've been marching from Williams and Russell all the way down to King Boulevard, then up King Boulevard all the way up to Alberta. Then we swing around and go down to King Park. So, at King Park we have 2 stages there. Then we have a beer garden under a tent and then we have different vendors. People come in with vendors, and 01:09:00that's city, state, different organizations come in there for information and sales. Then they have an area for kids to come and play in the park. Would you call that bouncing unit? Oh, and then they paint kids' face and then my organization, we can purchase an area, national Association of Black Veterans and the Urban League, the city water, whatever. Different venues that people can come and get information from and it's usually 20 to 25 of those. Then people have tents and tables for sale. So, all kinds, all different ethnic groups.

RK: Does that happen now?

RB: Yes.

RK: Is that once a year, then?

RB: Yes. That's once a year.

RK: When does it happen?

RB: That's in? What's that May. I think that's in May or June.

RK: So, it's a big community?

RB: Yes. Yes. Thousands and thousands of people.

RK: It's in here in Portland?

RB: Yeah. Then, what do you call it, the parkways, all the kids ride their bikes up different areas, the kids and their parents riding bikes and they have an area that they bike in, and so King's one of the areas that they start in.

RK: That brings in a kind of cohesion-

RB: Yes.

RK:-in this whole northeast area?

RB: Mm-hm. Well, the summer, too, when they have different marathons when people run through the community or the bridge to bridge [laughs]. That's neat. That's neat.

RK: Tell us a little bit more about your church, what church you belong to and the activities?

RB: Well, at the present time the wife and I, my wife grew up in a Lutheran church. We go there every Sunday and then my wife has the largest Sunday school class at the church and it's called Trinity Lutheran. But we're also at Holy Cross Lutheran where I became the president of the congregation. Just a few years ago, you never know who's watching you, found out that the head of the board of regents was member of our congregation, and he also was the head of the senate. So, he liked some things I was doing. I was completing projects around 01:12:00the church. He said, Mr. Boyer I'd like to nominate you for a committee. I said, okay. I didn't know it was the member of the senate. Well, folks didn't know me at the other churches. So, he came back and I had been the president of the Concordia neighborhood association. Their finance person and one of their art teacher was on the board at Concordia. They recommend me and he talked to me and, so he said, Bob I'd like you to come to this meeting Saturday meeting. I said, okay. I went to the meeting and said yeah this is chairman of the senate and the board of regence. I'd like to nominate Bob Boyer for board of regents, and he's here [laughs]. I got a unanimous vote. So, I'm looking, I said, yeah this tough boxer out of north Philly, this labor man on the board of regents on 01:13:00a Lutheran University? Then it was Concordia College. We were on the board of regents there for 9 years, helping to give scholarships to young people and okaying budgets. I had background in how to analyze financial statements, those types of things and management. I had the credentials, and young kid come out and said Mr. Boyer I heard you're on the board of regents. Said, yeah. I thought only Ph.D.s and millionaires. I said, well, I'm a millionaire in property and I'm a Ph.D. in the community. Oh, okay [laughs].

RK: That's what it sounds like. Right.

RB: I have 3 generations graduated from Concordia-my wife, my daughter, and one of my granddaughters.

RK: Talking about community participation, so during the Civil Rights Movement 01:14:00in the '60s and '70s and things that were going on here, what was your participation, if any, in that?

RB: One of the things, I think it was, must have been in the early '60s, some kids were raising a little stand on the union avenue. So, I was with the Model Cities Program and the Portland Metropolitan Steering, so I got in my car and some of the kids that I knew personally, I would pick them up and take them home. Said, hey, you don't need to be out here. You don't need to be out here. So, we had a committee that met with police department. I said, look, your police officers don't know the folks in the community. You need to get out and have a walking patrol, so you can get to know the folks in the community. The 01:15:00mayor agreed. Then, I was saying I was one of the, either the Urban League or NAACP filed a suit against the Southern Pacific Railroad and Longshoreman. So, I was one of the first 10 Black men to do, besides land tracking, cleaning the engines, become a switchman, brakeman, or fireman at the railroad. That was '64. The guys down there, we broke the myth that we didn't know how to run trains and become switchmen, put them together. I said you got to be crazy. When I would 01:16:00talk to the guys at the station, I said, well, don't you guys read. Oh, I said, well, who you think put the coal in the engines? Put the wood in the engines? It's why they're called fireman. Because you look at the mode of operations, especially on the wagon trains, now who brought the pioneers over to Oregon? Because they were giving away land, they sent them back. Oh. I said, well, who you think John Henry was? Who pounded those spikes? You didn't. Oh. Now, you call smitties in England the people who pounded the steel and the iron, but here you come to America they call them blacksmiths. Oh. Said, well, who do you think did all the work for Thomas Jefferson in Monticello? Oh. Who was his lead 01:17:00carpenter? So, I said let's open the book. It's right there in front of you. When I all of a sudden there on the job, not only the truckers but the local guys would come to me and ask me, Boyer, what about such and such? Well, if I didn't read the book I would come back and explain to them about the book. One theory-truck drivers would come in and have over 100 trucks. So, we got trucks coming all day, all day, and I was the terminal foreman and I always made a fresh pot of coffee for the truck drivers, so the guys knew my name, especially after they come back on the run, a local run, statewide run, or a national. They'd come in, hey, where's Mr. Boyer? Where's Mr. Boyer? Mr. Boyer, what about this? So, one of the guys come in, and he was out of Texas. He had his cowboy 01:18:00hat and cowboy boots, a truck driver, and said, oh, man, he said, these cowboys having problems. I said, what do you mean? You truck drivers have all the hats and boots. We started laughing about it.

So, one of the guys said, yeah, well, that's a straight-knee [?] cowboy. I said, yeah, sure is. Said, you wouldn't call that. Guy said, what do you mean? I said Caucasian wouldn't call cowboys. They would call cow men, the cattle men association. But when those African American start learning how to twirl those guns and shoot and become sheriffs on posse, the term sheep boy, house boy, I dare you call me a cowboy and I'm 6'4" with a 44 magnum on my side. But when the name got popular, here you get a dollar a day riding behind a herd of cattle. 01:19:00You didn't do that. You had other people doing that. But when it got popular, then you started doing that on the Chisholm Trail and things like that. Then you say, okay, you can call me a cowboy. How you know that? I said, the book. Riding horses in Pendleton, Round-Up, all that kind of stuff. Go ahead and check who's the statues up in Pendleton? Bill Pickett and all those guys. Oh. Well, he was what? He was a bronco rider. He rode the bulls. You know what he did to submit the bull? What? He bit his nose. Oh. I didn't know that. Well, there's a lot you don't know. The thing about it is so, I found all of a sudden I was thrown in a position of explaining things.

So, when I went down on the waterfront before they made me a foreman and when 01:20:00they made me a foreman, it looked like everybody was Missouri, show me... hey, Boyer, we want you to show me things or show me that. I was able to do it. Say, okay, okay. So, they made me foreman on graveyard because I was unloading those trucks. See, you have to have a layout how you put those 4,000 pound rolls of paper that goes to the Oregonian, because if you don't load them right when those trucks turn the corner, it'll topple over.

RK: Right.

RB: Something the older guys showed me how to do that, so I wrote a book of all the different ways that you would load the paper. Then, we don't use feet, we use cubits on how you load the railcars. So, certain areas you can get so many 01:21:00on the floor. If a railcar needed 500, I would know you had to have so many on the floor.

RK: So, you knew.

RB: So, I wrote that down. I had a little book.

RK: So you knew.

RB: Okay, with going to work with the Southern Pacific Railroad, I found out it was either the Urban League or NAACP who helped me get in. So, I had allegiance to that group. We start going to the meetings, and then they had meetings in different cities I started going to, and, so, they said well, Boyer don't mind traveling. There was an election, and I got elected as vice president of Pacific Northwest for the NAACP and the president was Judge Johnson out of Seattle. So, 01:22:00he would say, well, here I got this labor man I know he got my back. Then, we prepared for the 1978 National Convention here in Portland of the NAACP. I got elected as a chairman of the finance committee, and so a number of the cities from Seattle to Burlington to Tacoma to Eugene to Corvallis to Salem to Portland and I would go to Vancouver, I would go to the different cities to assist after they had a problem. One of the problems was you have 2 lists of members, one local and another list people who joined the national. When they would have an 01:23:00election, the local wouldn't have the national people on because they would just come out for elections. They would call me and I would go to Vancouver, and say, well these people are eligible to vote. I would go to Tacoma or Seattle or Burlington, places like that, or Eugene, Salem, and I said, okay these people are eligible to vote. Then, by being in labor all these years, my hero was A. Philip Randolph. He was the first African American to be the president of a national chapter, national Brotherhood of Sleeping Car, Porters, and Redcaps. We had a chapter here, and Judy was the secretary and I was the president. That was before we got married. That's how we met, at a meeting, labor meeting, trying to 01:24:00explain to folks why they need to go to the labor union meetings and understanding and reading their contracts. So, we had different seminars for national figures coming in town. But, I've come up through the non-profits. I was always on the board of at least 7 to 8 non-profits before I worked with one, which was the Portland School District.

RK: During the Civil Rights Activities when there were demonstrations and so on, did you participate in those demonstrations out on the street?

RB: Oh yes.

RK: Tell us about that. Give us the picture, describe the whole picture of how that looked and what you were doing.

RB: One of the things, if there was a demonstration, I'd go there and get in 01:25:00line and sometimes I would call the cadence of the marches.

RK: What's the cadence?

RB: Okay. Kind of forget them now [laughs]. It was that, said no peace-I'm trying to think of the name of that you would say. But it was different cadence that you would say something, I would come right back. No peace, no this or no that. I would make it into a rhyme. We would talk in rhyme and all of a sudden people on the sidewalk would join in. If you were demonstrating for a particular issue, maybe if we were applying for jobs and gentrification and people didn't 01:26:00know why they were doing it. Well, here, for instance, a guy come to me and said Mr. Boyer, he says I need your help. I said, what's up? He said, folks call the police on me. I'm cutting my grass and playing my boom box. Here's a neighbor two blocks away walking their dog complaining to the police about me playing my boom box on my porch and I'm cutting the grass. I said, okay. So, I'd say, well, I wrote the policeman, that name down, and found out he's out of northeast precinct. See, the northeast precinct used to be Fred Meyer and they converted 01:27:00it and that was part of the conversion. Made some recommendations when they converted it.

RK: The building?

RB: Yeah. So, we talked to the commander, the watch commander, and said, well, we need to have a meeting. So, we had a meeting. The police officer, the resident, and myself and the commander. Say, well, what was wrong? Why did he come up and talk to this resident? Oh, the neighbor complained. Did the neighbor talk to the resident? No. Did the neighbor, the one who complained, did they live on that street? No. Well, what was the complaint? Oh, he was playing music. Do you know what the law is about music? Or did the police officer know? I don't know. Ask him. Well, he's just playing music and the neighbor complained. Okay, do you know you cannot play loud music after 10:00 p.m.? Here 12:00 in the 01:28:00afternoon, man cutting his grass and he wants to hear his music. Why did that neighbor complain? Why didn't she come up and ask him? She was walking the dog. So, the police officer apologized. See. So, those are the kind of things when I was at the King facility, people would come up with different problems. One, here, 2, 3 kids was on the porch on a Saturday visiting a house. This particular neighbor, we called it gentrification, moved in to flip the house and called the police because the kids were making noise, didn't know that that was their grandparents' house. Those kids grew up there. They had been come in there, what 25 years, and the parents bought the house in the '40s, but the person who moved 01:29:00in didn't know. Well, here folks and gentrification would buy houses to flip or move in without getting to know the whole aura of the neighborhood.

We have one street we call Mississippi. We have a Mississippi fair every year, blocks off about 5 blocks or more from Fremont all the way up to Skidmore. 25 years ago, folks wouldn't drive up and down Mississippi. Now they have nightclubs and cafes, $400,000/$500,000 apartment townhouses and so forth, and they block the street off and the people bringing their products out. So, you have to walk. You can't drive. You walk up and down Mississippi listening to good music, and the funny thing about it, I was at Sunnyside, Kaiser, getting my 01:30:00feet done. I used to have my feet done every few months, once every other year or something like that. The lady was telling me about a national musician was playing on Mississippi [laughs] at one of the venues. It is very exciting, but I remember the day.

RK: Tell us more about the, you really know the neighborhood, the history and something also about the way, how people are responding now to the gentrification, the flipping of houses.

RB: Well, there was a booklet we put together called the Albina plan. It was financed, Model Cities Program and Portland Developer Commission. They got a 01:31:00number of us folks together and we started with 9 neighborhood associations. The city liked the program so much that now it's 90 neighborhood associations and there was an ability for people in the community to get together with their neighbors and complain about a certain issue. One of the issues we had when Judy and I moved in the neighborhood had certain drug houses. The people were complaining when I became president of Concordia Neighborhood Association, they would complain about here you know their neighbor. You know they got one or two cars, but if you see a car coming every 15 minutes, stop, and stay 5-10 minutes, come in and leave, you know something's wrong. Well, we found out. I told her, 01:32:00we need a study group. Find out what is really going on. The neighbors come up, say there are different cars coming every 15 minutes. The people who rent, it's a rent house, and one of the things they didn't do, they didn't pay for trash collection. So, here we got these black bags piled up on the side. So, I called down to the precinct and told them we need a representative to come down and talk to us. They sent Lieutenant Moose. He came down and he would give us an update. Said, this is the houses that we want to look at and we want you to have a cold call. The police officer would go up, knock on the door, say hello. Your neighbors think you run a drug house, so we just want to let you know we're 01:33:00watching you. Then that house would move. The people would move. It was about over 20 and the people said, no. Don't want to go to Concordia, live in that area anymore. Then, the neighbors was having the meetings at night, 7:00. At wintertime it gets dark. So, some of the people who had been coming said the reason why we can't come it's dark plus we got a light out on the porch. I said, what? Yeah, our porch light is out. We can't get up there. I went around, there was 5 of them, and start putting new bulbs in. People even baked me blackberry cobbler. Little things like that, and all of a sudden, going back to the neighborhood coalition, they elected me chair of the neighborhood coalition and then from there they liked what I was doing so I ended up running for state 01:34:00senator. But, it's grassroots. You start at the bottom and work up. I wasn't thinking about running for a state senator, but folks know I had negotiating skills and I cared. Folks come in to a neighborhood, we call that gentrification, and don't know the neighborhood. Here they see kids doing certain things, well, they don't know that's grandkids or great grandkids and them people been living there 50, 60 years, because all they want to do, some, come in and just want to flip the house over, do a little cosmetics and then move. While they are there, they want to complain.

But, for instance, when I got here in '61, there was a million and a half people 01:35:00in the state of Oregon. Now, it's over 4 million. We've definitely seen some changes. When I got here, the normal lot, housing lot, was 50'x100'. Now, first the city council changed it to 25'x50', like back east, because they didn't like the density, but with the people moving into Portland, people's minds change. Now, they would take out a house, single family home, on the 50'x100' lot and build a 4-plex, a 6-plex, or 12-plex or something, because now we're talking about housing density. Well, if you look back in Europe, you'll see that housing density, how they built rowhouses. Folks say, well, we don't like the term rowhouses. You don't? Oh, they just changed the name. What do you mean? They 01:36:00call them condominiums. Oh [laughs].

RK: Townhouses or rowhouses.

RB: Mm-hmm. Yeah, but we've seen some changes. We've seen a whole new development just south of the Willamette, the Columbia River, the infill that they dug up, made the channel, the river deeper and put all in infill because when I got here all that was farmland. The east end of Portland was 82nd when I got here, now look it's all the way out to 148th, and looking at expanding into Corbett.

RK: In the Albina District here, with this gentrification is there any resentment going on that people are coming in and doing that?

RB: Well, unfortunately-

RK: And it putting people out.

RB: Well, unfortunately, some of the folks who bought their houses less than $10,000 get offered $150,000. They go and sell. Well, then the houses that went up in value appreciation of the retail value, some of their kids are not making enough money to make the mortgage. So, you have different banks or the county foreclosure, people losing houses, people don't have the upkeep, property tax. Now, I sit on a board for property tax appeal, and one of my favorite most questions asked of seniors coming in, said I haven't put a gallon of paint on my 01:38:00house in 10 years, but my house, my property tax went up $300. Why? Well, I have to explain to them. I said, well, you have kids? No. My kids are gone. Grown and gone. Well, grandkids? Yeah. Well, you saw that bond yesterday that came up for the schools? Did you vote for that? Yeah. Well, in the small print it said for every $1,000 that your property is going to go up $100 or so, no, every $100,000 your property tax will go up $100. So, if the appraised value of your property is $300,000, then your property tax will go up $300. Oh. I didn't read that. 01:39:00Because I wanted to help remodel the schools or hire the teachers. That's been more common questions being asked of seniors. Well, here it brings tears to a rough guys eyes like me when you hear them say well, we're just living on our Social Security and little pension, and here we have to pay $3,000/$4,000 a year property tax, we have to cut back. So, I have to tell people they have to watch, they have to watch when they're voting for those different issues that will increase their property tax. When you look down that whole list, you're paying for Portland Public Schools, Portland Community, police pensions and so forth and so on, different organizations that you're paying for, water bill, and all that.

RK: What do you think they should be doing?

RB: Well, they have to be aware of what's going on. Now, people talking about well, the question is should I get a reverse mortgage or not? Well, not if you got relatives. You have to be careful. There's so many areas coming in, because here you have seniors over 80 who's been paying property tax since the '60s, now they got the carve a little out of their Social Security each month for their property tax besides their regular life expenses?

RK: Do you have any suggestions for solutions for this problem?

RB: [Laughs] I've been talking to some folks. I've been talking to some folks about that. It's just conversation right now, brain storming.

RK: Do you want to share any of that with us?

RB: Well, I definitely been saying well, folks who have been paying 20, 25 years or over 80 ought to be cut way back down for them, their property tax, especially if they've been paying over 20, 25 years. In that same location.

RK: Mm-hmm.

RB: They've done paid for that house, that property tax.

RK: That's right. That's right. Well, I think we've been covering many things here. It's probably time to bring us towards an end, because we can obviously go on. There are many, many more questions and areas that we have, but to wind this 01:42:00up a little bit, when you look back at your life, what stands out most in your memory?

RB: What stands out most in my memory is my wife, because when we met and had our union, look, everything we touch just blossomed. She's been my backbone and my foundation. I've been a blessed man.

RK: What would you say are some of the best parts of your life and those that weren't so good?

RB: Well, all my children. That's my best part, seeing them develop, grow. My 01:43:00youngest daughter is a vice principal of a high school. Saw her grow all the way up. My oldest daughter has a beautician business, 20 years or more. Then here comes the grandkids, are doing well. Working. Going to school. Going to college. My youngest grandson, one of my youngest grandkids, started community college. I have another one, he's 6'6", named David. He went to Southern Oregon for a year. He got homesick [laughs]. So, he's back up here in Vancouver. To see your legacy in these children and whenever they have grandchildren, the older one if they 01:44:00have a problem they call, grandpa what about is. The granddaughters, what about this? I try to find the answer for them or I know somebody who does have an answer. So, my older grandkids they bought homes, then working with their families and it's a blessing to see them grow. I think as a senior on the doorsteps of 80, these are some touching moments. Growing up as an only child, a lot of times I explain to them how precious it is to have brothers and sisters. Say, I don't care if you fight like cats and dogs with your brother and sister, but when you get in a corner you know who's going to come and help you. It's 01:45:00family. I think that's the blessing, is the relationships you build. Judy and I, 40 years we've been together and that's half my life [laughs]. I've become a better person because of that. So, those are the good parts. I lost a son at 19. Got away from me and hung out with the wrong kids. I told him. He died in '85. That's the low point, but the high point is with my wife.

RK: Well, thank you. Thank you very much.

GREGORY BLACK: Well, there's a couple questions I don't mind to ask.

RB: [Laughs]

GB: So, give us some information about the athletes that you knew at the University of Oregon back in the late '50s, '60s, those eras, and the opportunity to talk about those gentleman and what you might have gained from them, insights and what you learned over the years from them.

RK: When I got here in '61, Mel was still in high school.

GB: Mel?

RB: Mel Renfro. But, I knew his brother better, Ray.

RK: Tell us about who those people are.

RB: Okay, Mel Renfro was an athlete from Jefferson High School who was top 01:47:00echelon in the 100, in the state and top echelon in the hurdles in the state and then he went on to University of Oregon and did well in track. But, he played Jefferson High School state championship team and then he went on to the University of Oregon to play football as a running back and then he went on to the Dallas Cowboys and become a defensive back. He was fast and he created the whole position called free safety. That's a guy-you have a safety on the left, safety on the right. Mel was in the middle. Mel was so fast, he could get to have double coverage on a wide receiver on the left or the wide. So, he created that position called a free safety. Then, I think Dick Daniels went on to 01:48:00Pacific and then he went to the Dallas Cowboys and played on the Super Bowl team. Then, Claston Welts, he went to David Douglas, and I don't know if he went to University of Oregon or not. These are guys that I knew who went on to play professional football. Then, there was a number of other guys here in Portland: A.C. Green went to play professional basketball, and Brandon, Terrell Brandon, played for professional basketball, but when we, Judy and I went down to University of Oregon in the '70s it was a program called LERC, Labor Education & Research Center and going around. I saw a lot of my friends. There was a program 01:49:00called Operation Uplift, or something like that. That was giving a scholarship to the kids in the neighborhood to have that college experience, but from my main athletics it was boxing, and that was back in Philadelphia. The guys in my neighborhood we were only making about 75 cents an hour or less. We would have a little smokers, they call them. You boxed Monday, Wednesday, and Friday night. The big money in fight was Saturday. Then you got a chance to Madison Square Garden and other places. Many of the kids in my neighborhood who went to the gym ended up being champions or in the top 5. They worked hard, training hard, in 01:50:00their profession.

My coach, Willie Reddish and Yancey Durham, they ended up being Joe Frazier's coach and manager. He would tell us about preparing for a fight, that you have to be a thinking fighter. So, you have to study your opponent and understand that. I'll tell you one thing, he'd say, all I do is now, why do you think we have shadowboxing? He'd say, we want you to do that. Well, I'm not boxing anybody? No. We want you to shadowbox for 2 minutes, shadowbox for 2 minutes. Well, all of a sudden when you get in a fight, if you didn't prepare yourself for that jab, all of a sudden that jab would come down in the 3rd or 4th round 01:51:00and then you'd get popped and knocked out. I understood preparation. When I ran relays or ran the 100 yard dash, the coach, everybody on the track team had to run cross country, two and a half miles. You had to run cross country. Said, wait a minute, coach, I'm running the hurdles. I'm running the 100. Why do I have to run cross country? Say, it'll come to you. All of a sudden, you see on the mile race the last 100 yards that's when the race starts, the last 100 yards of a mile or less. I've seen guys who lead the race all the way around and somebody, well call it draft, you run right behind them and they pass them. I'd say, well, I'm running 100. They'd say, well, you'll see. We've seen, we had a 01:52:00big race called the pen relays. Schools from all over the country, they'd get in 100 relays and running the quarter mile, the half mile. No longer is quarter mile race more or less jogging race. It's a sprint. The mile, kid in Philadelphia broke the 4-minute mile. They were running sub 4-minute miles out of Villanova. Say, well, that's practice. You run each quarter. We just had a guy get, I forget what country he's from, ran a marathon and ran a 4-minute mile on the marathon. But it's all conditioning. It's all conditioning. So, when I scrimmaged for the local semi-pro team, if I got banged up in football, you play 01:53:00football that Monday morning, that Monday. All your muscles on your body hurt. I mean, even your feet hurt [laughs]. So, if I got banged up because I was a running back or a defensive back, I'd sit on the bench. The coach would say, Boyer you ready to practice? Nope. You ready to go? Nope. So, all the other guys, man, let me back in. Let me back in, coach. The fourth quarter, I would be all tuned up. I had my wind. I'm ready to play. That's what we call fresh legs. So, I could go in and I'd get an interception as a defensive back or I would juke the offensive or defensive player for 3, 2 or 3 quarters I would run into him and he would tackle me. I would run into him. I would get his mind set, the defensive tackle. The fourth quarter, he'd get ready to tackle me and I'd spin 01:54:00and run around him. So, I had some fresh legs. But, I'd try to use athletics annotation with everyday problems, and it has helped. It's not surprising that you have so many professional athletes on these talk shows as analysts, because they've been there. You sit down and listen and say, well that makes sense. Say, that makes sense.

Then, it's nice that they carry it out in to the business world or the rest of their life. Athletics to me was very important and looked like every time we had to go out of town and play some situation would come up and I couldn't go. Oh, I 01:55:00was upset [laughs], especially when the guys went to Seattle or Eugene to play or different towns, sitting around here to rest, but the Portland Thunderbirds were a farm team of, I think it was the Seahawks was one of the team. When, in the '60s you didn't have that many professional football, you didn't what, 30 professional football teams, but this is, the farm team is where they grew. They got their additional players and then they had an arena, football, that's where they got it from the farm teams and they started that. But when guys, when they didn't make it in the professionals, they went to the local teams, local farm teams, and they played a couple years after that.

GB: Did you know anything about Otis Davis?

RB: No, I didn't know Otis.

GB: Okay.

RB: I didn't know Otis, one of the athletes I didn't know, but Bobby Moore, I knew him in the neighborhood. Like I said, Bill Renfro in the neighborhood. Dick Daniels in the neighborhood. These guys went on to do very well. Rashad. That's his name, Ahmad Rashad. We called him Bobby Moore. His name was Bobby Moore [laughs].

RK: Did you box when you were here?

RB: Well, I trained, yes, at Matt Dishman. So, at that time I looked a lot younger than what I was, some of the older guys they thought I was in my teens. I said, man, I'm 22 years old. They say, oh okay. Well, we know you got some skills. We was talking about maybe you going pro. I said, well, I've been that 01:57:00route. They said, you have? They said, with golden gloves? Nope. You didn't fight golden gloves? You didn't go pro? No. We had gym wars. Gym wars? Yeah. We had 3 gyms in north Philly, east Philly, south Philly, and west Philly. They would take the best boxer in each class, that's why a lot of the boxers back east start, go pro, at 17. A lot of Mexican fights go at 16. What we do, they get the best weight boxer in that weight class and you challenge the different gyms. Now, here, Portland, Matt Dishman would challenge Mt. Scott. They'd go to Mt. Scott, then they would go out to a gym in north Portland or St. Johns. They call that the Charles Jordan Center now. That's the different gyms. Then, they 01:58:00had a couple professional gyms and they would send their trainers down to watch the fighters, so here at Matt Dishman, we had 2 of our local boxers fight in the fight off for the heavyweight championship of the world. One was Thad Spencer and one was Eddie Machen. They come out of Matt Dishman. Thad Spencer lost to Jerry Quarry and Jerry Quarry got knocked out by Joe Frazier.

RK: So, these people you mentioned, were they Black or White?

RB: Yeah. They were African Americans, yeah I knew them. We had Ray Lakin, he fought national. He was a national champion. Roberto Durán. We had Michael Culbert fought Tommy Hearns and Marvelous Hagler. We had Richard Sue. I was used 01:59:00to boxing with all them guys. We got one of the fights, called two pound, he's training now, but I would give him advice. Said, Mr. Boyer, man, what about coaching pro? I said, no I'm working. I got a job. I got a family, but I would give them good advice, all these boxers. They'd come back. The wife and I we were in Vegas when Mayweather had his fight and we were talking to some, after the fight, talking to a lot of guys. Hey, you know about that? You know about? Yeah. I sure do. Okay. I told the guy, I said, well, if he's not knocked down by McGregor in the 4th round, he's going to win the fight. Well, he fought 02:00:00defensive. He put his hands up and took all the blows and then the fourth round he started working. See, that's when you have to be a thinking fighter. A lot of people think that Ali, when he fought Foreman, he had to think, because he couldn't outpunch, outhit Foreman, so he had to let Foreman outpunch himself. He was tired in those later rounds, and that's when Ali won. But, that's why I take a lot of athletic lessons and used everyday lessons because there's knowledge in that. Okay?

GB: Okay.

RK: Any other sports questions? Or anything else you want to ask?

RB: [Laughs].

GB: No, I think I'm good.

RK: Okay, do you have any questions of us?

RB: Well, I appreciate you guys and your documenting and then Greg and I was able to talk about electrician and labor. The thing that we talked about Washington, D.C., and the neighborhood. You see, that's how I have acquired this ability to talk to folks. Then you listen where folks are from or what kind of work they do, or whatever. Then, you look at everybody's life, it's parallel. You have spouses and children and grandchildren and work and living expenses and homes and rentals, all kinds of stuff. It's similar. We're only 1 degree from being apart. That's family [laughs].