Muthukrishna (Ram) Ramanujam and Kalyani Ramanujam Oral History Interview, August 7, 2016

ST: My name is Sravya Tadepalli and I'm here with--

RR: Ram Ramanujam.

KR: Kalyani Ramanujam.

ST: And it's August 7th, 2016. And we're at their home in Corvallis, Oregon. So, to start off with, where and when were you born?

RR: I was born in a place called Tiruchirapalli, in southern India. It is in...in a state called Madras. It used to be called Madras State. Now it is called Tamil Nadu. It's one of the four southern states in India.

KR: So I was born in the village, small village, called Kariyamanickam. The village name is Kariyamanickam. It's Tiruchirapalli district. The same south 00:01:00India, where he was born. The place where I was born is like...fifteen miles from my place to his place.

RR: Within the same Trichi town.

KR: Within the same Trichi town.

RR: It's a village near the Trichi town.

ST: And when were you born?

RR: OK, I was born October of 1950. The day before Halloween (laughter).

KR: I was born on May 25, 1958.

ST: Do you know when and where your parents were born?

RR: Um...I...no...yeah. My parents, I know where they were born. In fact, my mom was born in a village, same, in Trichy/Tiruchirapalli...within maybe two miles 00:02:00from the village that she (Kalyani) was born. My dad also must have born in the same village. Yeah, my dad's year of birth is 1924, April. And my mom was born in 1929, February.

KR: My dad, I believe he was born in Tiruchirapalli City, Trichi City. He was born in 1926, April. My mom was born in the village where his (Ram's) mom was born, the same village. She was born in 1933 August.

RR: '33 August, right.

KR: Yes.

ST: As of now, what are your current occupations?

RR: I am retired. And I'm enjoying my retirement! I used to work as a design engineer for Hewlett Packard.

KR: OK, I work at HP, Hewlett-Packard. I work for the company called Linebridge. That's outsourcing company for Linebridge, so I've been there for eight years, working for Linebridge at the HP, Corvallis site campus. I am a quality control...I work there in the quality control. Where R&D division, where they do the printer testing, pen testing, ink testing. My job is the quality control job, over there at the R&D testing area, in Corvallis.

ST: So kind of going back to India, what were your towns in India like or your 00:04:00lives in India like? Do you have any special memories of what India was like? Just talk about that experience, growing up.

RR: Tiruchirapalli town itself, population-wise is...it's a lot bigger than Corvallis. But it is situated on the banks of the Kaveri River and it's pretty nice town. It's...but it's not very cosmopolitan, ok? It's relatively...I mean, compared to Indian standards, it's relatively a small town. And my village where my grandma used to live is very close. It's within fifteen miles, ok. And...I 00:05:00also went to college over there in the same town, even though I never stayed at home during the college days. I stayed in the...they used to call hostels in India. So I used to stay there. There are a lot of Hindu temples in Trichi town and we used to go to within the temples when I was growing up. It's...yeah, it's a pretty nice place to live.

KR: The village where I was born is a small village. Even today, it's still the same. It's a small village. I think there are probably about fifty homes, facing each other in one... It's called Agraharam. It's...only the Brahmin people live there. It was...my childhood...you know, growing up in the village, it was 00:06:00really fun, and... I have...we are six of us, six children per my parents. I'm the second one, with my sisters and I have one brother and four sisters. So we all grew up, such a...you know, the loving family. And also my dad, he was into agriculture so we had--we used to have a lot of cows and you know, it used to be fun. It was fun growing up in the small village. Such a nice, small town. And we have a temple in the same street where we used to go. And then there was a river. We used to go take a bath in the river. Even today, the river still runs the same place. It's very close to the Kaveri River. It was fun, such a...you 00:07:00know, fun childhood. There's so many good memories. So many to, you know, list. But overall, the years, you know, until I got married, you know, it was fun growing up over there in the village.

ST: Do you want to share, like, maybe a couple memories?

KR: Well, I remember when...not I remember...we...I...in the village there is no high school. So we have to go in, come two, three miles away from the village. So my dad...we used to have a cart, a bullock cart. So we used to go in that cart to go to school. And then we have the guy, who--you know, he would take care of us. He would take us...take us to school and bring us back to school. 00:08:00And then we also had a small...it's again...it's two-three miles away where my dad had...it's like a small...not small--it's a huge area with a lot of coconut trees and mango trees. It's such a beautiful place. We used to go...all our sisters and with my parents, we used to go have a picnic over there. It used to be so much fun. And then, the river...so we used to...there is a...what is it called?

RR: Yeah. There is a day in a month.

KR: There's a day in the month, once a year. It's a celebration we do there in South India. I think--

RR: You take food there. Do a picnic.

KR: Food over there, do a picnic. The whole village people will do picnic.

RR: The whole village people will do picnic.

KR: Do the picnic, take food in the evening. Just...you know. We also do the dandiyas (stick dance). All the girls, young girls will play dandiyas all the 00:09:00way from the river to our street back. So, so much of good memories.

ST: Do you want to share any memories?

RR: Memories...it's...we...I had a very, very close friend when I was growing up...we're like...like twins, and he's still one of my best friends from my school days. And we used to study together always and I used to go to his place. And we will study together. We will do math together, ok? And there were so many 00:10:00other kids in the same neighborhood, ok, but we two stood out from the rest. We were more focused on our education rather than other kids. They were not that serious about studies and we two were different, ok? We belonged to two different groups of the Hindu community. But still, I mean, we were very close. When I look back, those are my best days, growing up. And knowing him and being his friend. And he helped...I definitely got a benefit out of being friends with him and I feel he feels the same way.

KR: And what about your summer vacation with your grandpa's house?

RR: Yeah, summer vacation I used to go to my grandparents' home in the village which is very close to her (Kalyani's) village and used to have fun with my cousins who are of my age. Other than that, I don't know, I don't recall.

ST: Are you still in contact with that friend?

RR: Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, I'm still in contact with him. Whenever I go to India, I still see him. He is one my best friends. And...anyway, he was very interested in chemistry and I was interested in physics. And so at some point we diverged. I mean, he went into majoring in chemistry and I went to engineering school. I am still interested in physics, so that's why I went and did electronics and communication which is more physics-based than other branches of engineering. Yeah, I'm still in touch with him. In fact, I went to 00:12:00attend his son's wedding one time. Yeah, we are good friends.

ST: Going off of that, what was your education in India like? Either elementary school or going into college?

RR: I did my undergraduate degree in India. I finished...I did engineering...bachelors in engineering in India and I did electronics and communication major. And it's a pretty good school in fact. And then I worked in India for a few years before I came to the U.S.

KR: OK, so, I didn't go to college. Living in the small village, it was not possible for me to go, because...and also at the same time, my grandmother, my dad's mom...she was kind of, you know, "No school, college for girls!" You know, 00:13:00those days. "The girls are supposed to be in the home, get married! And have children, take care of the husband and family." So anyway, my grandmother and then my dad, they both were on the same...so I only...I didn't even finish my high school, you know. And then before that, I...you know, stopped going to school. And then, a few years later I got married, and then...yeah. My life--

RR: She was seventeen when she got married.

KR: I was seventeen when I got married. And then...we...so, yeah, I didn't...I didn't go to college.

ST: When did you stop going to school?

RR: Long time back.

KR: Long time back. Long time back.

RR: So...just before your wedding, right?

KR: Yeah. Just maybe a year before my wedding. And then I didn't go to school. 00:14:00Then I got married. Then we moved to a different place. That was the first step for me to move out of the village. I never...I never gone anywhere until then. You know, I mean, going to my cousins' house, who were living in Trichi, in the city. Every time, you know, every six months we used to go and spend some time with our cousins. Other than that, I never went anywhere far until I got married. After I got married, we moved to Hyderabad. That's where he was working. And then...that was a big thing, moving out of the small village. That's the first step for me to know the outside world, you know. Until then, I 00:15:00was just in my own world, you know. So that was a big change for me. That was a big change for me.

ST: So you talked about getting married. How did you meet before you got married?

KR: OK, so this is--our marriage was arranged marriage, of course, you know. So my dad, you know, found his family and they came to know about him and then he was...he finished his studies and he was working in Hyderabad. So my dad came to know through somebody else, so ,"Oh, their family, they have a son, let's go get the horoscope." You know we match the horoscope in India, arranged marriages. My dad went and got the horoscope from his parents and they...you know, they matched the horoscope. They had to go to some astrologer who can...you know, 00:16:00read the horoscopes to make sure both horoscopes are... you know, matched. They have to go through so many matches, you know, to consider, ok, these two horoscopes are matched, they can get married. So ours...you know, matched, according to whatever is supposed to get matched. And then my parents went and told his parents that "We took the horoscopes to the astrologers and everything seems to be good so now it's up to you guys to accept." Whatever they want. So we...then his parents, they said "OK", you know, they also took...because each family has their own astrologer, so they took my horoscope and his to their 00:17:00family astrologer, to make sure he says the same thing. So he also said, everything looks good, it's a good match. So then, they both sat as a family, they talked more, and finally, they all agreed, OK, we'll do the wedding. That's how our wedding happened.

RR: We never saw each other.

KR: We never saw each other.

RR: We never saw each other before the wedding.

KR: We never even saw our pictures or anything. He trusted his parents. I trusted my parents. Because we both knew that they will do a good job of picking the right person for us. So that's how. It's basically...our marriage happened based on trust, knowing that our parents would do a good job of finding a right person. It's working great. You know, we celebrated our 41st anniversary in this 00:18:00May, so yeah, it worked good. I think they did a good job of... So I saw him on the day of the wedding. So he was...our wedding happened in my village. Our wedding was 4 days, 5 days?

RR: Something like that. 4 or 5 days wedding.

KR: 4 or 5 days. Those days you do the elaborate weddings. In the some...three, four, five days, every day they will have some ceremony will be going on. And so our wedding was 5 days. I saw him on the day of the wedding, which was, what? Second day?

RR: Yeah, something like that.

KR: Yeah, second day of the wedding. So I saw him.

RR: I didn't see her before the wedding. And my sister was telling me, "Hey, maybe we can send you photo or something." And I said, "no need."

KR: Yeah, he was the only one who didn't see me. From his family, his parents, his sisters, they all came to see me. And they all came to talk to my parents. They were OK with me...but he didn't see me until...So the same way with me, I saw everybody in his family except him until the day of the wedding.

ST: Just missed each other.

RR: I know. It's kind of...I mean even for the Indian standards, even in those days, the guy will go and see the girl and talk to her a bit and all that. I didn't do anything. I mean, it's an arranged marriage and if I'm not going to have a whole lot of things to say...it should be just fine. That's the...

KR: I think later on, later years, I think it slowly started happening. The boy and girl start talking to each other.

RR: Now--

KR: You know, going out for a movie or something. They started doing after maybe like...another--

RR: Few years later.

KR: Few years later.

RR: Not when we were.

KR: Yeah.

ST: How was it adjusting getting married and living in Hyderabad?

RR: It wasn't...it wasn't all that difficult. My mom and her grandmother came with us to set up the family unit basically, ok, and they lived with us for a month or two. And you know, it's different in India, OK. Your...as husband, your 00:21:00primary responsibility is to take care of your wife. That's how it is set up, right? And it's love and all that...I think it comes later. It's primarily taking care of the other person. She didn't work and I was going to work. We were young and she was eighteen and I was twenty-four. She has to get adjusted to new place and I have been living there for a while. And I...well...by then. It wasn't that difficult. And I mean, she is also...very, very flexible. She is very interesting. Lot more interesting than I am. So it wasn't that difficult 00:22:00for me. It may have been difficult for her, but it wasn't difficult for me.

KR: It was...for me, it was, in the sense...like I told you earlier, I had never stepped out of the village. Not farther than...you know, fifteen, twenty miles. Just leaving everybody back home. Yeah, I knew, I knew that I married, and now I have a new...I have a husband, I have new responsibilities, and I....I...my life is going to be totally different from here on. So I left everybody back home. That was kind of...because I was only eighteen, I was kind of...it was hard for me to leave everybody. And then I felt like...I'm being taken away from this 00:23:00family to start a new life. And I...you know, once I came to the place where he was working, to Hyderabad, and then I started liking that place, I started liking my own life. This is...I have a responsibility. Just like how he felt he has to take care of me. And I felt, OK, I'm his wife, I have to take care of him. So now...then... then the year later, we had our first daughter, so we had more responsibilities. Now the husband and the baby, for him, the wife and the baby. It's...I think over the years we had more responsibility and we were becoming more mature and tried to deal with everything happening in our life. 00:24:00Yeah, that's what we did. And then three years later---first, the next year we had our daughter--and then our daughter when she was three, and then we had our second child. And then...when I was nine-month, eight-month pregnant or something with my son, so I came to my parents' to have a baby. I did the same thing with our daughter also.

So my mom...my parents brought me to the village. It's very common in India, especially the first baby. The parents, you will, you know...are supposed to take you to their home and take care of you throughout the delivery, even after few months later after the delivery, so by the time you come back to your own place, the baby will be three-four months old. So yeah, that's what I did. I 00:25:00went for the first child. Stayed with my parents for three months. And I left him a lot in those days because...right after the marriage, a year later, I have to go to my parents' house, be there for three months, came back, and again three years later, then I had to go back again, stayed with my parents, and had our son. Yeah. It was...you know, lot of learning experience. Lot of learning experience. I learned a lot in the first 5-6 years of my life in Hyderabad. I felt like...OK, I'm in charge of everything. It was nice. It really was a good...we made a lot of friends. And it was nice, nice to live in Hyderabad. We 00:26:00really enjoyed the time over there.

RR: It was always a big move for her, because every place I took her, she came with me. And she didn't know anybody in that place. Hyderabad is the same, because people didn't speak the same language. They spoke Telugu and we speak Tamil. And it's harder to...I mean, communicate even with your neighbors, OK? Then I came over here and she has to come and get adjusted to this new place.

KR: So, that's why--

RR: So in '79, as soon as my first...second child was born, OK...he was month-and-a-half old? I left India to come here.

ST: What made you come to the United States?

RR: You know, I told you I studied electrical and communication--electronics and communications engineering, that's what it's called in India, ok. And that's a pretty new field in India. There were not very many challenging job opportunities in India at that time, for that field. Had you been a mechanical or civil engineer, you would have found a challenging job. For electronics and communications, if you specialize in televisions and radars, there are not very many jobs. This is what really made me to coming to U.S. Looking for challenging jobs, go for higher studies. Those kind of things. And so...I started applying 00:28:00to U.S. schools for higher studies. And I couldn't get it when I graduated from college. Then I worked for few years and then tried again. In 1979, I applied to 3 or 4 schools in the U.S., couple of them in East Coast and one in Oregon. I never knew about Oregon except their electrical engineering program looked pretty good. And the tuition fees were not too expensive at that time. I thought I may be able to manage. So that's how I ended up in Oregon. It's mostly to...I mean, looking for challenging opportunities in the field of electronics.

ST: What was the reaction in India of people when you were planning to come to America?

RR: Mixed. My father-in-law didn't want me to leave India because he was a little bit worried I am going to leave his daughter in India for a few years. And he wasn't too happy about it. My father...he has been to U.S. once before to visit his son-in-law and he thought it would be a good fit for me to do my higher studies here. So he--I should say he kind of encouraged me or somewhat neutral. So some people...all my friends were excited because many of my 00:30:00friends, I mean... some...they were also in the process of applying to U.S. schools for admissions, OK. And some have already...some of my friends who have already gone to U.S. when I was working there...it's kind of mixed feeling. I mean some people got really excited when I said I am applying. And I got admission to Oregon State. And some of them were asking, "Why do you want to leave India?", you know. But I was very, very focused because I wanted to do my graduate studies in double E, and I thought the U.S. was the best place to come and do it.

ST: What about for you?

KR So for me...like he said, our son was just a month old baby, our second child, so I was with my parents. And I didn't tell him not to go and I didn't 00:31:00tell him to go. So I was kind of in the neutral way because... And I definitely told him I didn't want to come with him because I didn't know how everything would be here. I mean, bringing the two children. And coming to a new place. And especially him going to be a student, and I didn't know how everything would be, so I definitely didn't want to come with him at that time. But he was making all the arrangements for him to come. So I don't know whether I should say I was a hundred percent supportive of that. I also had the mixed feeling, you know. I felt that...yeah, it's a good opportunity for him to come here. That he always wanted to come to U.S.--he always wanted to...because his uncle...his uncle was 00:32:00the first one from his side of the family to come to England for higher study, to medical school and all that. So he always...you know...was a role model for him. And then his brother-in-law came to this country. His sister's husband. So looking at both of them, and he always thought, OK, I should also go and get further...you know, higher study. It'll be more opportunity for me to do lot of challenging work and everything. Because he's always interested in doing challenging work, you know. So I was...then OK, I said OK, that's fine, if that's what he wanted to do, I should...you know, support his wishes. And so I stayed with my parents. It took three years--

RR: Almost three years.

KR: Almost.

RR: It took almost three years.

KR: Three years for me to come with the kids. He came once...after...little over two-and-a-half years. That was the first time we saw again, after two-and-half-years later. He even saw the baby. He was two-and-a-half years--one month old baby, and then he was two-and-half-years old when he came to India.So he applied in between for us to come, but some documentation was not there, so they didn't give me... they didn't issue the visa for me. So that took some more time, another six months or so. So yeah. I ended up staying with my parents, my in-laws. And then our daughter started going to school. Because there was no good school in the village, so I had to kind of move in with my in-laws, because 00:34:00in the city... there was, I mean, good schools in city. So I stayed with...I lived with my in-laws, and then every weekend I would go stay with my parents. So it was kind of going back and forth. But...yeah, it was...the kids--

RR: They stayed in India for--

KR: Yeah.

RR: Little over than three years.

KR: Three years, yeah.

RR: OK.

KR: Because Chak was a little over three by the time he came here.

RR: Right. Because...I left India in 1979, September. They came here in '82 December.

KR: '82 December.

RR: And I went to India in '82 June.

KR: Right.

RR: And when she came here, she came with the green card, okay. So after two years of my grad school, I went and worked and I applied for a green card and 00:35:00they processed the green card for her as well as for the two children at the same time. And then she came with the two kids in December of 1982, few days before Christmas.

ST: Halloween, Christmas.

RR: Yeah, right.

ST: So what was it like to move to the United States for each of you? What were some of the major culture shocks?

RR: Cultural shock...First--I came to Corvallis to study, OK. This place--I mean the very first day I landed here, OK, I mean, I fell in love with this place. It is so green. It's so nice. It's very, very clean. And it's not as crowded as any 00:36:00of the Indian cities, OK. And it's...for me it was an ideal place to live, OK. And it's...Yes, I missed home. I missed her, and the kids, and my...the Indian surroundings. But...and then this place looked like a perfect place to live. So I was here for two years and then I moved to California for a few years. And I always wanted to come back to Corvallis. It felt like home to me. Home away from home. So culturally...I don't...I'm not exactly sure. It's a big difference in the sense, I mean, I didn't know anybody when I came here. I mean, no friends, 00:37:00no relatives. It's just you and school. And over the years, we started making friends. So that was...it's the loneliness, that's pretty hard. Other than that, I mean, it was overall a good move.

KR: So I came...I came with the two kids in December of 1982. So I came through New York and then uncle (Ram) came to pick me up from New York. So it was like...December, cold right, coming from the hot place, India, you know, weather, and then coming here...and for me, it was a language problem. I could not speak English. I did not speak English at the time. Even though I started 00:38:00reading just before coming here. I bought English books...you know, at home and started reading six months before, but still, you know, it's not like something I speak on the daily basis, right, so I could not speak English, I could speak very little English. It was...it was a big...another...coming to...leaving from a small village to Hyderabad was a big step. And then from Hyderabad to U.S...that's even bigger move for me. But luckily, you know he was in California at that time, he already had few friends who were very close and then speaking the same language. So when I came, I fell in with the...you know, the culture right away, I mean because they were there. They were always there for anything 00:39:00I need or anywhere I needed to go. Or somebody to even talk to.

RR: They spoke the same language.

KR: The same language, you know.

RR: It helped her.

KR: It really helped me. And...so...then I slowly start liking the place. Like he said, I really like the cleanliness of this place. I mean, the...less crowded. It's not like in India. The weather is nice. It's not too hot. No mosquitoes. No mosquitoes. It was nice. I mean culturally it was different because...the language. I can't really talk to too many American people here. It took some time for me. But slowly, you know. Then I started going to school. And I did my high school here. And then I took evening classes, took some computer 00:40:00classes, some accounting courses and all that, uncle (Ram) would...I didn't learn driving for quite some time. I didn't want to drive because I was kind of scared to drive in California. That took some time for me to...I wanted to get to settle down in the place and get to know everybody. Feel comfortable first before I started to do anything on my own. So I had to depend on uncle on for almost for everything. Because, first of all, I didn't drive. That's a big drawback in this country, right. If you don't know driving, then it's very...you know, hard to go anywhere. So then, slowly, you know, I gained my confidence there, by slowly...going to school, and then I start meeting more people at 00:41:00school and then I started talking little more. I didn't have that much nervous like how I used to be. So I slowly start talking to people, making friends. So it took some time for me to... My kids were--actually--they were a big influence on me because...they went to school here, right, so they would correct me if I say something wrong in English and even the way I pronounce, you know. In India, our pronunciation is a little bit different. Our accent is different, right?

RR: They will correct.

KR: So the kids would correct me. I learned a lot from my kids, actually. And I used to watch a lot of TV, to...just to learn English. You know, I used to watch so much TV. After the kids went to school, I watched a lot of TV. And then he (Ram) was giving me English lessons in the evening. So it was good. I grew up. I 00:42:00learned a lot. And then I really started liking this place. I made more friends. I felt really comfortable after a few years of coming to this country.

RR: By the time we got settled down in California and she got comfortable in California with our friends circle, I decided to move back to Corvallis. She has never been...well, she has been to Corvallis once before, because we came to visit our friends when we lived in California. And then I said, "Oh, I'm...we are moving to Corvallis." And she wasn't too happy.

KR: Yeah.

RR: Because leaving California...with all our friends, okay. It''s a bigger Indian community and she had quite a few friends over there. I decided to move back to Corvallis because I felt...Corvallis is a good place to bring up the children.

KR: Safe place.

RR: Safe. Good schools. If you remember, I mean, in the mid-80s, there was so much...drugs at school--

ST: In California?

RR: In California.

ST: Where did you live in California?

RR: We lived in--

KR: Santa Clara.

RR: Santa Clara, San Jose, London. We lived for three months in Sacramento.

KR: Yeah, Sacramento. I think that's where the schools were...you know...

RR: No, generally. I mean, they were about to go to middle school, and we felt that...bringing up children in Corvallis would be better than bringing up children in one of those...California...I mean, schools.

KR: Big cities.

RR: Because of the...I mean, you hear about drugs all the time in schools, OK. And Corvallis may be a safer place, better place to bring up the children. And that was one of the main motives to come back to Corvallis. As I told you 00:44:00before, I always liked this place. So I looked for a job at HP in Corvallis. So, as soon as I got a job at HP, I decided to move back. OK, that was a big move for her because she knew one of my friend who we visited earlier and they have also visited us back in California, but other than that we didn't know anybody. So that's a big move for her.

ST: So...I have Corvallis a little later on. You talked a little about the drugs that were being used in the 1980s. What other things do you remember were happening in the U.S. politically when you were here?

RR: Oh! Oh, there were--.okay, going back, in the 1980s, when I was a student, I 00:45:00came here in '79, 80s...and Jimmy Carter was very unpopular. And Reagan got elected as president. And '80, I was here in Corvallis when Mt. St. Helens erupted.

ST: Oh, OK.

RR: OK? And we could see ash, I mean a layer of ash on the windshield in Corvallis. It was...yeah...I never thought about eruptions of that kind before. It was quite interesting. And I...when I was in California, I mean...we encountered the first earthquake, which I remember.

KR: Right.

RR: First time ever. I was at work and there was an earthquake. I went under the desk.

KR: Yeah.

RR: And then...yeah, and then there was a major earthquake in Oakland. We were living in Sacramento at that time. I'm sure it was--

KR: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's when the...

RR: The whole bridge fell.

KR: The bridge fell. Right, the car stretches, hanging.

RR: We could see the car going down, right?

KR: Down.

RR: The TV, yeah, right. That was a major earthquake in Oakland at the time. What were the major events during the time? I think that was '81 or '82, the San Francisco Forty-niners won their first Super Bowl.

ST: OK, that's pretty significant! Did you ever face prejudice from Americans 00:47:00based on the fact that either you were Indian or that you were immigrants?

RR: Not really, okay. In the Bay Area, when I worked for National and Intel, the workplace was completely, very, very diverse. There were Indians, there were local American...whites and people from China. From various parts of the world, okay. I mean, if you enter any of the Intel sites, and look at the groups, it's very, very diverse. In fact, I worked for a manager who was from Pakistan at the time and when I worked for National, the guy just moved from England to manage this group. So, we're a bunch of people from different parts of the world. Never 00:48:00felt discriminated or anything. When I moved to HP it was different, because there were fewer...very few...at least HP Corvallis site--didn't have very many others. It's mostly local Americans...whites, few Indians here and there. But discrimination, probably not. Not really.

ST: What about you?

KR: Yeah, I never felt any discrimination. When we were in California, I didn't definitely feel anything because there was large Indian community and other diverse people, right. So I definitely didn't feel anything. After coming here, 00:49:00it's a small town. People were...I mean the adult people were very friendly, and their... the kids, you know, I remember, they were very curious about if I wore a sari and go out, they'll be kind of staring at me. "What is this?" You know, if they see me. "What is that?" Other than that, you know people are so friendly. I never felt that...people were discriminating me or not wanting to talk to me because I am different...I never anything like that.

RR: Never felt that way.

KR: Even at work, we have so many...I work with so many people, American people. It is diverse, HP is a really diverse workplace. We have all kinds of people. I mean, lot of American. They're all very nice, very nice. I always feel they are 00:50:00nice people. You know, nice people are everywhere, right? It is not just in your own country. Nice people are everywhere. So I never felt anything...intimidated. I never felt they are treating me in the bad way or anything. I never felt that way. It's always good feeling about how people are nice over here.

ST: So...what was kind of surprising about Corvallis?

KR: Well, you know, there...because I had so many people...so by the way, our third child was born in California, so that was another excitement/addition into 00:51:00our family. And I meeted so many friends over there. We were getting together. Lot of get-togethers. The temple, we used to go to the temple. Friend's house. Just...you know, we kind of settled down in that place. We were very comfortable with the surrounding and the people over there and friends over there. And then we had to move to Corvallis. So because it was a small town in the Corvallis, I didn't like it in the first place. I felt that...you know, there's nothing here to go, other than the university here. Very few places you can go to. For everything, you have to go to Portland. We used to go to so many Indian restaurants in the Bay Area and there was another drawback over here when we 00:52:00moved here. And also not too many--our kids didn't have that many Indian friends, because there were not too many kids on their own...same-age kids when we moved to Corvallis. So it was kind of hard on them...they didn't have any...it was hard for them to get exposure to Indian culture. Other than just, you know, the home, they were following everything we do, the Indian culture at home. Outside they were following the American culture, because the friend circle were Americans. So that was kind of hard on them. It felt that...you know, they would have had more...the exposure, Indian culture exposure if we were still in California.

RR: There were larger Indian--

KR: Large Indian community.

RR: Community over there.

KR: And their own, each kids. There were lot of friends, their same age, growing up.

RR: Of Indian immigrants.

KR: Indian immigrants, yeah. It took some time for me... but it didn't take too long, you know. But...it was...I started liking this place because the place is so nice and green. It's such a beautiful...you know, town. It's a small town, but it's very beautiful. People are nice. Again.

ST: So how was Corvallis different at that time from how it is now?

RR: Actually, it hasn't changed a whole lot. I mean, it has gotten a little bit bigger. When I came in '79, I think the population was more like 37, 38,000 maybe. And then in '88, it was more like 45. Now it maybe is something like 00:54:0055,000, maybe 57. I mean, it has grown but not that much. It hasn't changed a whole lot. It's still the nice place that it was when I came in '79. There are more buildings at OSU. The campus looks still pretty green. Culturally, there are more...I mean...diverse restaurants, Indian restaurants, some few more Italian restaurants. Few more shopping centers than before. But otherwise it is still pretty much the same.

KR: More homes, I think right?

RR: Yeah, little bit.

KR: Lot more homes.

RR: I mean...but not a whole lot of changes.

ST: So...how has the country as a whole changed from then till now?

RR: That's a good question. How has it...how has it changed--

KR: Well, this year, election is being so chaotic. I mean, we have never seen election like this, right?

RR: Not like this before.

KR: Not like this before. Oh, and I'm so happy we have women selected...nomination for the...you know, Democratic party.

RR: For the major party.

KR: Major party. That's a big change. I'm really looking forward to that. Yeah, other than that, I--

RR: I mean, if you ask for a big moment, like when Obama got elected. OK, that 00:56:00was a big moment.

KR: Yeah, that was a big moment.

RR: I mean...we never...we wouldn't have thought that--

KR: The African-American--

RR: African-American will be president of this country. That was a big change. That was really a big change. Clinton being the nominee of the major...one of the two major parties this year is a big change too...and...yeah, those are the two I could think of, okay.

KR: Hope more changes would come.

RR: Good changes.

KR: In the future, good changes.

ST: So how has India changed from when you left?

RR: Oh, India has changed a lot in this time period. If...actually when I said earlier that I came here because I wanted to look...do a challenging job. 00:57:00There's no need for Indians to come here anymore, OK, because there are a lot of challenging opportunities for them to do in India now. And because they're doing pretty good stuff in India these days, okay. Because I used to work with Indian engineers, while I was working here, okay, and they are doing just as good as what we're doing here in some field. So I feel India has really changed quite a bit in the area of technology. There is no need for engineers to come to U.S. looking for challenging opportunities. Challenging job opportunities.

KR: It's the same thing. Oh, I do want to add one thing, though. In the early 90s, right? We became U.S. citizens. That was really--

RR: Yeah, I think we became--

KR: Big, happy. '92, '93?

RR: '92, '93 timeframe, we became U.S. citizens?

KR: And that...along that time, we became U.S. citizen.

RR: That was a big change.

KR: So it was a...big...we were so happy and glad to be--

RR: Big change for us.

KR: Big change for us, so that was a big moment for us to become citizen of this country. So we're glad we did that.

ST: So what was the first election you voted in?

RR: Do you remember? Okay.

KR: I don't know.

RR: Because...we became U.S. citizens in '92. And I must have voted for Clinton the second time.

KR: Clinton the second time.

RR: I think. Yeah, yeah between '92 and 2000. So I must have voted for Clinton during the second time, not the first time around. '96 elections probably. First 00:59:00presidential elections in '96. So I voted Democratic. I am a card-carrying Democratic party member.

ST: I wanted to actually ask about your kids. How was it for your kids going to school here, growing up here? How do you think that impacted them? Their schooling, not knowing many Indians here.

KR: They adapted to both places very well. So...you know, in the beginning when we moved here from California...so, I was kind of thinking, how they are going to be. Of course, we were always worried, they should have good friends, we're 01:00:00hoping...you don't want them to fall in bad circle of friends. So we were really...worried about that. But luckily, you know, they chose their friends, you know, who studied well, who are going to school well and all that. So they had good friends. They didn't really affect them in any way, so they were pretty happy with their friends. They didn't have a whole lot of friends. But they had...the friends they had--

RR: Good friends.

KR: Good friends. The friends whom we can trust them to know them well, that they will be good for our children to have friends in their life. So it didn't really make any big impact on them--they adjusted really well.

RR: They adjusted pretty well.

KR: Yeah, they adjusted pretty well. It didn't affect them in any way. They 01:01:00turned out to be good kids. They all had a college education. We're so proud of them, you know, now that they're all working. They work by themselves. So all married and the two of them have already children and Madhu, our youngest son, he got married three years ago...couple of years ago. And they don't have any children yet. So yeah, we are so proud of them. The achievement they made. And we are so happy we were able to provide them everything they needed and brought them good kids. We are very proud of them.

ST: So what change or impact do you think you both had on your work, or 01:02:00Corvallis, or the community?

RR: In Corvallis, okay, I mean, we have to say we are very...pretty proud of celebrating this Indian community event, called music festival. It's done once in three years.

ST: Oh, the Thyagaraja Festival?

KR: Yeah, Thyagaraja Festival.

RR: Yeah, Thyagaraja Aradhana. Yes, we are a big supporter of that. And the Indian community has grown, okay. We tried to get involved in the Indian community when we knew people...we tried to get them involved as well to the 01:03:00extent that's possible. At work, I have always worked on some fun stuff which is state-of-the-art, always. Before I quit we were working on cameras that are going to go into automobiles. There's already back-up cameras in cars. But one we are working on will have four or five cameras in an automobile. So I was working on the design of those cameras as part of a team, okay. I always worked on the leading edge of technology. I worked on the microprocessor for Intel and then...computers were just coming out and personal computers were just coming out...and then I worked at...ICEs for the printers. And the PC printers were just then becoming popular. Worked on chips for digital cameras, okay. So I was 01:04:00a little bit...and always I had the newest products technology-wise. It's always fun.

ST: You?

KR: To me, like he said, about Aradhana, I'm very glad that we do it, we get a chance to celebrate that function. And also the Dhussera, Navaratri celebration we do, it brings the whole Indian community people together. It's just...North, East, West, South, people from all over from India, we have here, living in Corvallis. That one festival, I always see, bring everybody together. We have so much fun, you know, nine days, I'm sure your mom would have told you about that. 01:05:00We celebrate the nine days of dussehra every year. All of the ladies, we all have fun. It's nice. I'm so glad that...you know, being in the small town, it's possible to bring everybody together...I don't think it'll be possible...places like California, the bigger cities...because they all...they have their own group of friends. But it's possible, we are able to do in this small village.

RR: Not small village, small town.

KR: Yeah, small, not small village. Small town. I'm thinking about my village. It's the small town. You know, bring everyone together. And everybody's having lot of fun. As far as my work goes. I enjoy what I do at work. And...I work well with people, you know, I have a lot of friends. All kinds of friends at HP. So, 01:06:00they treat me very nicely, so I'm very, very happy where I am.

ST: And do you want to share--what are some of the best memories you had in the United States or Corvallis?

RR: This is the last one?

ST: Yeah.

KR: Best memories in U.S.?

ST: Or in Corvallis.

KR: In Corvallis.

RR: Who's going to go first?

KR: So in Corvallis.

RR: Well, in U.S.

KR: In U.S. So we always enjoy travelling. Not only here. In, around the world, you know. We have gone to Europe a number of times. And we want to do a lot more travelling in the future. That's one thing we both really enjoy doing that. There is something...you know, here, is so much easier, everything, you can get 01:07:00it done, everything. Online. You know, just think about it, and book the ticket, and then you just go. You do...you are to do so much already, you are able to see so much. So...yeah, we always enjoy our trip. We had a...we made a trip to Costa Rica a few years back. Just a while ago we went to Italy for three weeks. We like to enjoy...travel together.

RR: If you are asking for the best moment in U.S. for me, OK, when Madhu was born, our third child. OK? Because for the other two kids, I mean, as she was telling before, I mean when the two kids were born, I mean, she went to her home and then the kids were born, and then they will send me a letter, telling that, okay...

KR: "You have a girl."

RR: You have a baby boy or baby girl, or something and then it will be a few weeks before I go and see them. Whereas when Madhu was born, I was there when 01:08:00the baby was born and I could hold him right then, as soon as the baby was born. That was the biggest moment for me in U.S. Of course there were others.

KR: It should be mine too, right?

RR: But for you, the other two. For me, I mean, because I was there, that was a big moment. Because the kids getting married, that comes later.

KR: Oh, that's true. Oh, and also, the grandchildren. Big moments for us. So we have five grandchildren. Three or four granddaughters and one grandson. So we are so...you know, lucky to have grandchildren.