Ollie Parsons Oral History Interview, February 24, 2024

JOZIE BILLINGS: Today is February 24th, 2024. I'm here with Ollie Parsons over zoom, and I, I'm in Corvallis today. Where are you at today?

OLLIE PARSONS: I'm also in Corvallis.

JB: My name is Jozie Billings, and we are doing this interview as a part of my honors thesis project, Beyond the Binary. Welcome to the interview.

OP: Thank you.

JB: All right, so to start, do you want to just tell me a little bit about your childhood and if you had any, like, significant experiences that really helped your-like, were really formative to gender in any way?

OP: I mean, I had a I had a pretty good childhood generally. A big thing for me was I was in ballet for most of my childhood. Which is a very gendered environment. And so I, you know, it took it actually took me a while to sort of, like, I did question my gender even when I was little. But it took me a really long time to entertain those thoughts at all because, I was just in such an aggressively gendered environment. And, my parents are pretty liberal generally. And, but, they had never talked to me about that, ever. Like, I learned about gay people from the Percy Jackson books. Like, I like they just never really talked about that. So I just didn't really think about it or think of it as something that I could talk about, you know? So, I only really started sort of like exploring my gender when I stopped doing ballet. Because, like, like when I was, like, in, like, middle school, I was doing ballet all the time, but I really wanted to cut my hair, but I couldn't cut my hair because I, we all needed to have, like, our hair and buns and everything. And so, you know, I wasn't really able to express that side of me. I was also like, a pretty, people pleasing child. So, everyone in my family thought of me as very feminine because I did ballet, and, and I was like, I don't know, I read books and stuff, and I was like a good student. I don't know, like, I, I mean, I don't know, I wasn't a great student, I have ADHD, so, but I don't even know. Sorry. I have to get in the zone.

But I guess probably the most like formative parts of like developing my gender was probably just being online, honestly. And, like, in, like, late middle school and early high school, I started sort of being more active online and like seeing, you know, more queer people. And like a lot of my friends at the time were queer. But, most of us were like identifying cis at a time and like, that wasn't, you know, that sort of thing generally comes a little later. I feel like, and. Because I did know I was queer from, like, a pretty young age. I just didn't really know what to call it, you know? Sorry, I, I should have maybe, like, written something up, say, like, make sure I hit every, every point or whatever, but, yeah, I started being, like, active online and in, like, fandom community and stuff, which I'm not really anymore, but it was definitely like a big part of, like, figuring out who I was because people were just very casual about sharing their pronouns and talking about gender and stuff. And so I just sort of like that made a lot of sense to me. And I really understood it even before I realized that I was non-binary. And I went through many years from basically eighth grade to like junior year of high school, of like switching my pronouns all the time and like, you know, like my Instagram bio would like go from like she/they to they/them to like they/she and they'd be like, no actually I'm like just cis I go back to she/her and like that was like many, many years where I just like did not. I was pretty confused about my gender generally. Because it's like I am non-binary and that can be kind of like a it's not a confusing experience once you realize it, but it can be a kind of confusing experience to try and figure it out because it doesn't really fit into, like, you know, by virtue of just like literally by definition, it doesn't fit into any of like the categories that like we're generally given in society. So yeah, I'm just yapping, I don't know.

JB: No, it's good, it's good.

OP: One other thing, also, like when I, so like I, that being out online and like being active online and stuff gave me also the ability to express my gender and try things out. Right. Like try like names out and everything. I actually didn't change my name until senior year despite, like being out of some binary from, like, from junior year, because that was a whole other thing to think about, I guess. And, what really ended up making me want to, change my name and then eventually go on hormone therapy - I've been on T for a little over three months - was, I met my girlfriend who was a trans woman, and, she and one of her friends, who is also a trans woman, were, like, both on estrogen and sort of like, you know, I had other trans friends, but most of us were sort of still in, like, I guess the, like, baby phase. Right? And like Ellie, my girlfriend, had like very much sort of thought about it a lot. And she was on hormone therapy and stuff, and she sort of knew a lot about that. And like, it was really cool seeing someone who had done that and taken the leap to like, start hormone therapy and like, knew a lot about trans issues and stuff. And like, she was very happy, with like, also she like very much like fully accepts her gender identity, which is something that I didn't really and at the time and still have trouble with, mostly because of my family, which is a whole other thing. But, I was like, I was dipping my toes in being in, like, being trans and like, because I was too afraid to really to take like, the full leap, you know. But Ellie like really helped with that. And I'm like, much happier now, like being on hormones and everything. But yeah. So I don't know if you can get anything from that, but, yeah.

JB: Yeah. I'll just, I wrote a couple of things down. I'll just start, like, back at the beginning. So you said that you questioned your gender when you were little. Do you remember anything specifically about that?

OP: I mean, I do remember one time, that was kind of like, I still remember this because it was like, "whoa" to me. When I was a kid, I must have been like 7 or 8 or something. And like, I used to take like gymnastics classes. And I went to my gymnastics class in, like, a t-shirt and like, shorts or whatever, instead of like. A leotard that I usually wore because, like, my leotard was like in the wash or something. And like some kid asked me, like, are you a boy or a girl? And I was like, [mind blown motion with hands] oh, that was like a crazy question that no one had ever asked me before. And like, I thought, I literally like, I couldn't get it out of my head for like a few days because I was like, like part of me was like, how could they ask that? Like, I'm like, clearly a girl, you know? And then part of me was like, like I was thinking about it way too much, you know, because like, the other part of me was like, okay, but like, why did they ask that, though? And like, what did they mean by that? And like what, what do I, why am I thinking about it? And like, why is this like in my head all the time? And so that was like crazy for me. But like, I just wasn't really given the space to question that or the ability to express, like, you know, what I wanted and everything, like, most of my clothes were hand-me-downs, so, like, I didn't really. And, like, we didn't really buy new clothes that often. And so, like, I didn't I couldn't really go, like, you know, I don't know, like, try to like, I mean, I was pretty young, right? So I couldn't really, like, express myself beyond what my parents were like, giving me to wear and do and look like, you know. And like I said, I was, like, very much a people pleasing child. So, like, I was like, okay. Yeah, this is like what I have to do, you know, like, I have to, like, go along with this. But that was definitely like a crazy experience. As, like, small as it sounds, you know, I was like. Like I just never thought about that before and it made me feel very conflicted. So. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know.

JB: Oh. That's good. That's nice that you remember that. I don't really remember anything from my childhood. So, you mentioned that being non-binary is kind of like a confusing experience to figure out. Can you talk about that more? Maybe, if you have anything?

OP: I don't know. I, I don't find it confusing now. You know, like, I really understand my gender a lot, and I think it's it's it's very silly and funny and, it doesn't really fit into any category I can try to put it into. But I do understand it now. Like, I'm not confused, but, when you're trying to figure that out, I think it can be confusing. It's confusing for any trans person because you have been told you're this thing for your whole life, and then you're like, you're realizing that doesn't fit you, and now you're having to figure out where you stand, you know? But, I think, like for me, it was it took me a while to figure out because I was like. You know, like. I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to say. Like, I guess I wanted to fit myself into a box and I wanted to feel happy about the box I was fitting myself into. And that just wasn't really an option with how I was feeling on the inside, you know? And so I was like, just it usually I was confused, but it usually wasn't distressing for me. You know, like, it was usually just like, okay, I'm gonna figure this out. I would get distressed, though, because I would be like, something's wrong, and I don't know what it is. You know. And. Yeah, so I don't think the confusion is necessarily a bad thing, and it leads to acceptance, right? But, like, being non-binary, like, like can be. I mean, just being queer in general, you know, you're trying to figure out, like, who you are and everything. And, like, a lot of things are telling you that's not who you are, or you're just like. Like it's a phase, you know, and that kind of thing. And that can be confusing for a kid. I think it's a lot more confusing for queer people growing up in, like, a heteronormative culture than it is for heterosexual and cis people to see queer people, if that it makes sense, like because people talk about it being so confusing or whatever. It's a lot more confusing for that person who's trying to figure out their gender identity in the society that doesn't give space for that, you know? But I don't know. I don't want to be like, oh, it's so confusing to be trans because, like, I don't feel confused anymore, you know? But yeah, yeah.

JB: Yeah. No, no, that makes sense. Yeah, and I get it.

OP: I'm trying, I'm trying

JB: No, it's good, it's good. It's kind of like. Well, it's not something that people talk about a lot, so I think it's okay. Take some time. You mentioned trying to fit into the box of a label, but I know a lot of non-binary people kind of see, like, non-binary is like a box, like without, like or, like a label without a box. Is that like, I know you see it? Or...

OP: Yeah, I mean, I definitely see it that way. I find it very, a lot more freeing to, I mean, like, I, because I used to want to fit into a box, you know, that I could easily define. But it's so much more freeing for me to not really fit myself into a box. Like, I don't really define myself by many, like sub-labels of non-binary. You know, there's like a lot of those and I don't really care about those personally. I'm and like, I'm like trans masculine, but I don't really identify like, I don't identify as, like a trans man, you know? And so, like, I'm just like trans-masc non-binary, you know, and that's about as deep as I'll go. Because I don't really want to fit myself in a, into a box, and I don't really want to think about it too hard, honestly. I just want to do, like, what I feel. And so, I don't know, like, I definitely have wanted to fit myself into a box before, but it was definitely more of a coping strategy or feeling like, I need to do that. And, you know, it didn't end up working very well. And I'm glad I don't feel that need anymore, but, yeah.

JB: Yeah, you mentioned that your girlfriend was kind of, like, not really a role model, but somebody that, like, inspired you. Where, do you know of, like, any other role models?

OP: I mean, yeah, I definitely wouldn't call my girlfriend, like, a [air quotes] role model, cause that's sort of silly, you know? But, like, I definitely-she definitely did inspire me. And like, I was able to see in her, like, how happy it was, how happy she was to have, like, fully accept herself, you know? But, I don't know, I guess I had, like, some, I like people online who I knew, who were like adults and had been queer and trans for a long time. And, those were definitely I would say those people were probably like the closest thing I had to a role model for, like gender and sexuality. Because I didn't have a lot of that in real life. I don't like my parents don't really know, like, I don't really know any queer adults in real life. Like, I know, like, a couple, you know? But, it's not that. It's not some people like, not people that I really would feel comfortable talking to about stuff, you know? So I guess most of my role models were probably online, and that might be why I really sort of started like, like thinking about my gender more when I got online. And I definitely think that, like, being online is a very common experience for queer people because and figuring yourself out more online, is also a very common experience because, like, there's not really space to do that in real life. And if there is, it's usually created by queer people, which is fine. But then when you're like a child and you don't or you're just starting to think about things, you're like, oh, well, I don't want to go there because like, that's not me. You know, like, I don't know, like, where do I fit in, you know? And so, like, being online is like, I mean, it's often you're pushed to online communities because you feel isolated, you know, but then like, the online communities are there for other people who feel isolated. And then you can like, find community, you know.

JB: Yeah.

OP: Yeah. So I don't know about role models, I guess I had them online, but not really in real life.

JB: Yeah. No, that's, that's good. That's valid. You keep on mentioning, like, online spaces. Does that like, did that include social media or is that like go to like something separate from that?

OP: Yeah. For me it was mostly Discord. I honestly started getting into like online communities through fanfiction. And I would join discord servers. Like, for the fanfictions that I was reading. And then that sort of like, would create new communities and stuff. And I don't know. So, sorry, what was the question I like I don't know why, but like, your exact wording just slipped out of my mind.

JB: Like, was there any relation to social media at all?

OP: Oh, yeah. I did have social media, but it was not related to like, the, to, I mean, I guess if you count Discord as social media then like, yes, but, I had like Instagram and stuff and Instagram was kind of my place to try and conform as much as possible as well. So like, I was trying to explore my gender, so I was like, have my pronouns on my Instagram bio. But I was, like I said, a big people pleaser and I still am, but like, and I really wanted to portray and an like an aspect of myself that people would like, on Instagram. And I didn't feel like being queer or whatever was like, you know, or especially trans, like, I was out as queer to basically everybody in my community. As a middle schooler, I was I was like bi, you know, but I still wanted to be, like, palatable. Right? And I didn't want people to think I was weird. So, like, I definitely was not like on Instagram. I would post, like, pictures of me, like, you know, like being really feminine and like, you know, like trying to be as, like, pretty as I could, you know, and trying to make it seem like my life is like, perfect because that's I feel like kind of what Instagram is for in ways, so I don't know if it really had a big connection to social media, unless you count, like, Discord, which I guess you would, but, I don't know. Yeah, I was mostly just like I was on discord servers and like, had online friends and stuff. I was on Tumblr. I forgot about that. I don't know why I forgot about that. I guess most of my online friends were actually made over Discord, like, so not on Tumblr, but I did have a Tumblr account where I talked about "Avatar: The Last Airbender." [JB: Nice.] Which is still one of my favorite shows. Definitely. I would say my favorite show. And I have written fanfiction for it. I was pretty active in the fanfiction community in like, high school. But yeah. Anyway, yeah, I feel like that's kind of all.

JB: Um. Yeah. Like you mentioned Avatar, were there any other, like, forms of media that you were really drawn to?

OP: I mean, I'm like such a stereotype for this, but like, I did really like, children's television and, like, TV shows, like, you know, I watched "The Owl House." I didn't watch all of "the Owl House," but I really did enjoy what I saw. I watched "She-Ra and the Princesses of Power," which is like the queerest show ever. I watched, wait, there's another one that's in my head that I feel like...well, there's "The Dragon Prince." I watched "The Dragon Prince." I don't know if you know any of these, but you're nodding, so I think you do. Probably. I also started getting into anime a lot in, like, middle of high school. So I had a whole anime phase for a few years. So, yeah, I mean, like, I did, like, I guess watch a lot of like that, you know, and like that, that was like, in general the like online spaces for shows like that are very or like overwhelmingly queer, which is nice. So yeah, I don't know. Fandom is just overwhelmingly queer, generally.

JB: Yeah, I would agree. So, you mentioned that you've been on T for three months. [OP: Yeah] Do you want to talk about that any more? You don't have to if you don't want to.

OP: Well, it's been awesome. It's been really cool. I've been on gel, which is like, because there's, like, gel and shots. And gel, it's like, it's just like a gel that you apply to your arms every day. And like, for some people, I think that's like a lot of work, but I really like it. It's like, therapeutic for me. You know, it's like, okay, well, like, every day at least I have to wake up and I need to, like, do this, you know? And so it, like, gets me out of bed. But, yeah. No, it's been really cool. I've, like, really liked all the changes I've had. I, wanted to be on it earlier because I did come o-I mean, I came out in junior year and I was like, really on and off about whether I wanted to go on hor-I'm a freshman now, so it's been like 3 or 2 years...ish. How long has it been? It's been almost three years. Yeah... But I wanted to be on it earlier. Like I definitely like, especially when I met Ellie and she would talk about how HRT was really helpful for her. I was like, oh, I actually like do want to do this. Like I'm realizing that I actually do actually want to. But my parents didn't want me to. So I waited till I got to college to do it because I knew I could do it through Student Health Services. Which is where I am getting my T from right now.

But, yeah, my parents have, especially my mom, have been probably the hardest part about, like, the hardest part of coming out and being for the past few years, just being trans. Definitely. I haven't really encountered too much significant, like, roadblocks except for my parents, who did not react well and still don't really understand at all. And when I told them I wanted to go on T, well, my dad got really freaked out and well, I told my dad because I was scared of telling my mom. Because my mom, my dad just sort of, like, doesn't understand, but my mom has, more of an ideological thing against trans people. And so I was I'm a lot more comfortable with my dad in general. My relationship with my mom is very strange. But I told my dad, and, like, he sort of freaked out, and he was like, you're, like, ruining your body. And it's a terrible, awful thing to do to your body, you know? And it's like, not natural and everything. And then like, I was like, okay, well, I'm still going on it. And then my dad was like, okay, actually it's fine, like, and like, you don't have to tell your mom, like, I'll tell her and like, I'm actually going to support you or whatever. And then because my mom was away on a business trip at this time. She came back, he told her, and then she must have convinced him not to support me, because then they sent me a two-page, double-sided typed letter about how I shouldn't go on T. And so, yeah, I mean, my dad would probably be better at it, like, be better with it by now if it weren't for my mom. But they do usually use the right pronouns for me and call me Ollie and everything. That's been a long time in the making, but they do that now, which is really good. But yeah, so that's been not great, but I've really, really been happy that I've been on T. It's like been super awesome for me. The only time I ever feel bad about it is when my mom tries to make me feel bad about it, but, it's really just awesome. It has improved my life so much. So. Yeah.

JB: Yeah. Well, so it sounds like maybe moving out of your parents' house must have been a pretty good experience for you.

OP: Yeah. It definitely was. My parents' house was kind of difficult to live in for a while. It sucks because, like, my little sister still lives with my parents, like she's 13. And so, like, I want to still have a relationship with her, but a lot of the time, like, I just like, like I do go back to Eu-so I'm from Eugene. And I do go back to Eugene a decent amount, mostly to see my girlfriend who's still there. And I, like, stay at my parent's house when I'm there, and that's fine. You know, it's okay. But I'm, usually when I'm there, I'm, like, always out doing stuff because I don't really feel super comfortable in the house, but I don't want to, you know, leave my sister behind. Right. But, she's getting older, so hopefully she'll be able to, like, come visit me, you know, or, like, we can do stuff that isn't in, like, the house, you know? So. Yeah.

JB: So you're at OSU now, and you mentioned that you're getting your T through OSU's Student Health Services. How has your, like, experience at OSU, then?

OP: It's been good. Yeah. I mean, like, I. Yeah, it's been great. I like, you know, I wasn't super nervous for, like, the transition and everything. No pun intended. I was, you know, like, I was pretty excited. Mostly because I was like, I'm getting out of my parents house, but also just because it's college and it's exciting, you know? And I haven't really encountered that many people who have been weird about my gender. People do, like, misgender me and stuff, but that's okay. You know, like, I mean, I don't, it sucks, right? But, it's, I've also had people gender me correctly, especially as I have, like, been on the T more and stuff. That's cool. So yeah, overall, it's been a good experience. And it's been awesome that I can just like, like getting T from Student Health Services was like really easy-easy, but also felt like a, you know, thought out process and everything. So. I, you know, I've been really happy with it. Generally, just like with OSU in general, I mean, I've had, like issues outside of gender, you know, like trying to adjust to the vibe, you know, like college and everything and like, making friends. That's hard. But like, that doesn't really have to do with my gender, you know? Yeah.

JB: Yeah. All right. I'm gonna I'm going to loop back around. I forgot to ask you a question earlier.

OP: Okay. Oh, it's alright.

JB: So, can you talk a little bit about, like, what is euphoric to you, in terms of your gender and what is maybe dysphoric to you?

OP: Yeah. I mean, I guess I just have mostly dysphoria about my body. Obviously, that's the thing, right? And how I'm seen by other people also is a big thing. I mean, dysphoria is very social, right? So it's like, like there is a component of dysph-and this is true for everybody, I think-there is a big component of dysphoria that is obviously just physical dysphoria about your body. But there's also a really big part of dysphoria that's about like how you're seen by other people. And being nervous, and even if other people are being accepting, it's still like, well, do they actually really think of me as this or do they just think of me as like a confused girl or like a [airquotes] transtrender or whatever? Like, I don't know. I lost my train of thought. Um. I totally lost my train of thought. I'm sorry, I don't know, um, but-

JB: Another, another part of the question was: what is euphoric to you?

OP: -and euphoria, yeah. Yeah, I, I mean, I have, like, clothing that I really like. That makes me feel good. You know, I, it's really euphoric to not just see the results of testosterone, but also the, just the fact that I'm on testosterone is really euphoric to me. And it gives me euphoria to put it on every day. And I really look forward to it and stuff. I've been, like, working out recently and going to the gym, and that gives me a lot of euphoria. Because it's like, oh my God, I'm getting buff or whatever, which is like, I don't I'm not the kind of person who wants to be, like, super muscular, but like, it's fun, you know? And like, I'm definitely going to build muscle better than I ever have before while I'm on T. So, and I don't know, also just like being silly with gender, like, I don't know how I, how I can really explain that, but, like, I like wearing dresses and stuff, just, like in a boy way. You know, like, I like, I mean, maybe not really in a boy way, but in, like, in an almost boy way, I don't know, it's hard to explain. But like, yeah. And so, yeah. Just like. I don't know. It's hard. Like a lot of my clothes make me really euphoric. They're just like I have. I mean, I kind of wear the same thing every day, honestly, which it's mostly a coping mechanism for the fact that I really like how I look in certain outfits. But like other outfits that I haven't, that I, like, haven't, like, checked with myself or whatever, that I haven't worn a lot. I'm like very prone to getting dysphoric in them. So it's like I have to make sure that I'm wearing outfits that I like. But the outfits that I like, I really do like and make me feel cool and stuff.

So yeah, clothing is a big part of being-of feeling, like, euphoria and everything. Just like, most of my friends are trans and just, like, being with my friends and feeling really affirmed and stuff, I guess is like very euphoric to me. Like, I don't know. Sometimes Ellie calls me her lesbian boyfriend, which is kind of true because-So I do identify as a lesbian, which is kind of silly for some people to understand, kind of difficult for some people to understand because I'm like trans masculine, but I do identify as lesbian. And so yeah, I am a lesbian boyfriend. And I think that's really funny. And in general, I just like, enjoy experimenting with stuff. It's harder here because I, like, don't have all my clothes and everything, you know, like, I don't have all my stuff, but, you know, it's okay. And, yeah, I don't know. I'm trying to think, like, there are random things that give me euphoria that don't really have anything to do with gender, actually. But, like, I don't know, like, sometimes I get, like, dysphoria about, like, how my room looks or something. I'll be like, does it look too feminine? Like, would someone think this was like a girl's room and stuff, which is like, silly. And I'll think it out about, like, my items too. Like I'll be like, like my phone case. I'm like, does this look feminine? You know, but then, like, I have, like, a cool leather wallet and I'm like, oh, that's cool. That's, like, masculine, whatever. I don't know. It's like silly because there are a lot of things that just don't really have anything, literally nothing to do with gender. But I just, like, ascribe some kind of sense of euphoria or dysphoria to them for some reason. Yeah, I don't know.

JB: Speaking of objects, what did you bring today for your object?

OP: Yes. So I brought my DND dice. So, I love DND, and I didn't really mention that. I kind of forgot, but also, like, I couldn't really find a good way to tie it in. It definitely, like, I probably should have tied it in because, like, I picked my DND dice because they were very, not the dice specifically, but DND. It was very important in, like, shaping my gender and stuff, but I guess I was thinking more like in the far past, you know, because DND is like. I mean, I have been playing DND for a while, but I only ever really started, like, using it to explore my gender, like, pretty recently. Because, like, I started playing DND when I was like 11 or 12 with my dad. But like, as I've gotten older, I've sort of used it as a way to, like, explore myself and stuff. So yeah, that's why I brought dice. And they're pretty cool. They're metal. Yeah.

JB: Very cool.

OP: So, yeah.

JB: Can I ask who you play as most of the time?

OP: Well, I have a few characters. At the moment, I mean, I have many characters that are sort of in, like, hiatus, you know, because a lot of the time I'll, like, play a game and then it will get put on hiatus and stuff. But like the two active campaigns that I'm in right now, I play a rogue, Kieran Haschak. And he's like a spy and he's pretty cool. And then I play a monk, whose name is Nora, and she's like Yuan-Ti, which is like a snake person. I don't know if you play DND, but I love snakes. They're my favorite animals. So I was like, I should play the snake person. But it's interesting because, like, I don't usually play female characters in DND, because I sort of run the risk of feeling dysphoric. But I love Nora, and she's just like me, for real. And, I don't know, I also, I mean, DND is very important to me because I think I use it as a way to not only explore my own gender by playing characters that either are sort of manifestations of my gender or are different genders for me, you know? I also use the DND as a way to like, honestly, just like process trauma and things that have happened to me in my life because, I can sort of, I don't know, project onto my characters, honestly. And I think all the DND characters are self inserts to an extent. And I wouldn't say most of my characters are self inserts, really, but they have a lot of pieces of me in them. And like Kieran, for example, he is trans, he like, he is canonically trans and he is like, his whole fate, his whole story is like a trans allegory, basically because he used to like be a spy for the evil empire, basically. And then he defected and he is like on the run now and he's working for, the like, they're not really great, but like for like, good guys compared to the Empire. He's working for them, but he's still trying to find a sense of identity, and, he, he doesn't feel like he fits in anywhere. And, he sort of tries to, like, compensate for feeling lost by, like, seeking pleasure and being like, you know, irresponsible and stuff, you know, whereas like, but like, he is responsible and he is a good spy and everything, but he like, he's just constantly sort of floundering and looking for identity. And I think that that like is a step in that you have to sort of go through in that process of being trans and, because it is about a search for meaning. Right? And like he was, he used to work for this evil empire, which was terrible for him. And he put so much work into being, into being like into, like rising up in the ranks in this military, you know, and being the perfect spy. But he was realizing, like, it made him feel terrible and it wasn't him. Like it wasn't him, you know, and I don't like as silly as it sounds, I do think that is kind of what it's like to be trans, because you're trying to fit in for so long and repressing stuff, and then eventually you're just like, nope, this doesn't this cannot happen anymore. And you step out of comfort and into like the total unknown. But like, you're you're you're seeking happiness, you know, and that's kind of like his thing. And so he's like, I can sort of explore transness through him. And then Nora, the other character I play, she's like the only female character I played for a while. And she, I would say she is like almost a deliberate self-insert in ways. Because I very much use her as a way to process trauma. And she is a little bit of like a, an avatar of myself as a child. A little bit, because like, like I mentioned, doing ballet as a child. And that was pretty traumatic for me because, you know, ballet is often pretty traumatic for people.

And it was very much for me because, like, my teacher was generally pretty abusive, and didn't really allow for any sort of actual expression, and was mean to people, which is like, I don't even understand how that like, you're literally working with children, you can't be just randomly mean, but you can apparently. And so that was very damaging to me. And I actually ended up with an eating disorder because of it, which was not great. And I also think that dysphoria played a huge part in my eating disorder, because, like, when I look back to, like, what I was like, what I really hated about my body, it's like similar things to what I don't like now. I just think about it in a different way, you know? And like, I just I didn't like the parts of my body that made it look feminine. And I hated going through puberty because it was like body horror for me, you know, and I didn't realize why, but it was like, oh my God. Like, this is like, something's so wrong with this, you know? And so I sort of took that out on myself, I guess, kind of, and, tried to find a way to make myself feel better, and try and find a way to, like, fix my body. And obviously my eating disorder didn't work for that, because it never really does for anyone. But I'm much healthier now. But anyway, ballet was, like, pretty damaging for me. And like Nora, she lives in, like, an evil cult. She's actually out of the cult now, which is good, but, she she's from a cult, and she has, like, an adoptive father who sucks. And she kind of tries to, like, like a monk in DND is like a sort of character who, like, basically a martial artist, I guess. And, she's really trained her body to the extent, like to, like, like, super high extents and everything. And that's kind of what I did, you know, and, like, trying to prove yourself and trying to, like, you know, give yourself value because you feel like you lack value inherently. I don't know, that's like sort of something that's like her part of her character. And that's definitely also something that I relate to a lot. So like, I sort of use her as a way to process that. And it sounds silly because DND like just like a role-playing game, you know. But like, I very much it has a very special place in my heart. And all of my characters are very much avatars of myself in ways, so, yeah.

JB: Yeah. That's cool. I like that. Makes sense. I feel like a lot of people do that with their characters.

OP: Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

JB: Yeah. I think that's all the questions I had. Did you have anything else you wanted to talk about?

OP: I don't think so. I mean, like, I could talk about my parents, but I don't really have to, you know.

JB: That. It's up to you.

OP: I mean. It's kind of a tale as old as time, right? Like most trans people, I think, have some issues with their parents. I don't think all of them are quite as bad as mine. But a lot of them are very much worse than mine. So, I don't know. Yeah, I don't I don't have much to say about it. I guess, it does get better, you know, if you don't back down and you keep trying to advocate for yourself and making sure and like trying to actually push your parents to accept you, because not for everyone, but for many people, eventually they will realize that they at least have to be somewhat courteous to you if they're still going to want to have a relationship with you. But that isn't true for everyone, sadly, because some people's parents never realized that. But yeah. Anyway. Yeah.

JB: Yeah. Would that maybe be your advice to like, future OSU like, future queer OSU students like if they're dealing with the same thing?

OP: Don't even know what I don't even know what my advice would be, everyone's situation is so different in that realm. You know, like some people, their parents feel weird about it at first, but then they'll like, sort of quick, like do their own research and understand or some, some people's parents will never understand and they'll just things will always be weird. My parents are kind of in the middle of that. I guess I would say. Yeah. Don't like let don't let like people's doubting get to you because for a while I very much let that happen and was even after I was like feeling super comfortable with my gender, I would still have like these doubting thoughts and stuff that were like, not at all my own, but just like feeling like I like I was feeling bad about being trans, and I still have a lot of shame about being trans, but mostly because of my parents. And I would say just like, yeah, I guess my advice would be is just don't try not to let that get, get through to you. Because it can really suck to feel like you do love yourself and you do understand yourself, but you still just can't feel totally happy about being trans because you're worried about what other people think about you. You can't really be worrying about that, especially not when you're trans, because there's always going to be people who are weird about you. So yeah.

JB: All right. Well, anything else? Yes.

OP: I don't I don't think so. Okay. Sorry. I was sort of all over the place.

JB: No. You're fine. It was good. A lot of people do it like that, so it's whatever. All right, well, thank you for the interview.

OP: Yeah. Thank you so much.