Sage Briddon Oral History Interview, February 10, 2024

JOZIE BILLINGS: Okay. Today is February 10th, 2024. I'm here with Sage Briddon, over zoom. And I'm in Corvallis. Where are you today?

SAGE BRIDDON: Corvallis.

JB: Corvallis too, amazing.

SB: It's pronounced "Brid-don".

JB: All right. Good to know. I should have asked that before. Okay. My name is Jozie Billings, and we are doing this interview as a part of my honors thesis project, Beyond the Binary. Okay. Welcome to the interview. Good afternoon!

SB: Good afternoon.

JB: Okay. Okay, let's start with the basics. Do you just want to repeat for the, for the recording? How you identify and what your pronouns are?

SB: Identity. I guess the most accurate label would be like genderqueer or just queer. But, like, I've got a non-binary sticker on my cane, so, like, that's like the public. It's like the trench coat of identity. And then if you open it up, it's like three possums inside of it.

JB: And the three possums are genderqueer, queer...

SB: Genderfluid, genderqueer, like agender. Just like there's a bunch of frogs and the sleeves that are the day to day.

JB: Amazing. So do you, like, kind of like change how you identify depending on the day. [Sage nods yes] Yeah, okay.

SB: It's like...

JB: What are you feeling like today?

SB: Kind of like "none gender with left dude."

JB: I can respect that. That's a good way to do it.

SB: The button up.

JB: I like it. It kind of looks like a lab coat.

SB: It is a lab coat.

JB: Amazing! What's your major?

SB: Natural resources.

JB: Do you work in a lab?

SB: No.

JB: No, just felt like the lab coat. I can respect it. Okay. So let's start at the beginning.

SB: When I was a boy...

JB: No, literally, like, for your, like, surrounding your childhood, like, were there any experiences that you thought were pretty formative to your gender or like, what activities were involved in? Yeah. Anything like that.

SB: I was the child that no one wanted to play with. So I wasn't really involved in any of the, like, formative gender playing. Like, I didn't play house or anything, like ball. I was just up in the corner by the trees, kicking leaves into piles.

JB: Oh, no. So that kind of little natural resources major a little bit in your childhood? [Sage nods yes] Interesting. So you didn't do any sports then? Did you do any other extracurriculars, like in high school or anything?

SB: I didn't have time for extracurriculars. I was just trying to survive.

JB: Oh, survive?

SB: Survive high school. Cause both my parents are teachers and both my grandparents are retired teachers, my maternal grandparents. So I was just like, trying to keep my grades up. And so, extracurriculars *shakes head no.*

JB: Okay. Was school kind of hard for you?

SB: Oh, definitely. I got that autism. So.

JB: Yeah. All right. Oh, when did you start to kind of, like, start to question your gender, I guess.

SB: I'd say like 2019. Like, the earliest I can. I remember thinking about it was when I was in Clark College up in Washington. And there was this person in one of my classes that I didn't quite know the gender of. So I'm just like, okay, I'm going to find out if they're boy or girl. So I am going to introduce myself but I'm going to introduce myself as she/they. And then I'll be safe. I'll be a safe person and they can tell me and then I'll know the gender secret. So. So that's where it started.

JB: Yeah. Did it work? Did they tell you?

SB: Yes. It was like he/him.

JB: All right.

SB: I found the gender secret.

JB: Found the gender secret. So. So it kind of started with seeing other people be queer in some way, and then you're like, hmm I can do that. Or it kind of, like, brought up something for you. Or you, like, maybe, like what I am now isn't right for me?

SB: Could you repeat that question, please?

JB: Yeah. Did you think that seeing someone else be, like, openly queer? Was it, like, more of a, oh, "I can do that kind of thing," or more of, like, an internal, "like maybe something isn't like, right with how I'm currently identifying" kind of thing.

SB: It was more like a huh, I didn't know that could be a thing.

JB: Interesting.

SB: It's one time in high school, two my buddies were like playing around, and one of them was like "they're sitting on me!" and I was like, there's only one person on you and there's just like, no, the guy goes by he/they pronouns and I'm just like, ah, that's a thing?

JB: Interesting. Yeah. I forgot to-

SB: Neutral pronouns were a thing before then.

JB: When, like, where did you grow up?

SB: Camas, Washington. It's up by Vancouver.

JB: And when did you graduate high school?

SB: 2020.

JB: 2020. Okay.

SB: The year of the plague.

JB: Me too. I actually graduated in 2020, too.

SB: Graduated over zoom.

JB: I did too. It's a good time. Okay. I'm thinking where to take this. Okay, so you graduate over zoom, right? Do you think that that had anything to do with it? Like, maybe like seeing that people be, like, openly queer and then you just kind of got, like, shoved into lockdown and like.

SB: Definitely, it was just like, okay, I can't control the state of the world, but I can control my pronouns.

JB: It's true.

SB: Big brain.

JB: Big brain. So how? How did you start to identify? She/they?

SB: It started out she/they and then like they/them and then like I don't really care. You know, and now it's just like, I don't care, but just like, not, not cis.

JB: So did you have any role models as a kid, whether that was like a queer role model or non queer? Whatever works.

SB: Like any kind of role model?

JB: Yeah.

SB: I'm glad you asked. I got his book on my bookshelf. Jeremy Wade.

JB: "River Monsters."

SB: It was like the show about fishing, and I watched it religiously as a child.

JB: And did. Is that what, like, let you get into natural resources?

SB: Like, I was that kid that did not play with dolls. I played with little plastic animals. And every time I played, they ended up, like, getting revenge on humans.

JB: Nice, that's awesome actually.

SB: Yeah, it's just like, oh, the mean poachers have the animals. The animals kill.

JB: I mean, at least you recognize that a young age that like, you know, animals, we shouldn't really be treating them the way we are. It's true. Okay.

SB: Thing was, I played those games the most in therapy. Oh. So, like, therapist took a lot of notes. Yeah.

JB: That's funny. Okay. So, you, okay. So, you mentioned you, like, kind of saw that person and like, oh, you can do that. So, in what ways did you start to explore your gender besides just changing your pronouns?

SB: I changed up my hair. It used to be like, down to here, and then I cut off into, like, bob. And then one day I was just like, if I don't get this hair off of my neck, I'm going to implode. So I just [hand gesture of buzzing head]. And I got home that day and my grandma was just like, what possessed you? Just like, what possessed me? Is autism. So like then I figured out the like name thing and, you know, chose Sage because it's got a lot of meaning. Like sage means wisdom. Wisdom's a value I really try to emulate. Plus, it's got ties to one of my special interests, which is Journey to the West.

JB: What's that?

SB: It's a Chinese classic book. And it got like, it's a big media thing, like. And one of the characters, Sun Wukong, one of his titles is "Great Sage Equal to Heaven." And he's one of my favorites. So plus it relates to a plant that I saw a lot in my first field work. So I chose it originally because like, oh, it means wisdom, I like wisdom, and then now it's got like multi-layer.

JB: That's cool. Where was your field work at?

SB: Down in the Klamath Basin. I actually did it last summer. It was very fun. I got to see a lot of birds.

JB: That's cool. Love a good bird. And lots of sage there too? [Sage does a finger pointing gesture under their chin] Okay.

SB: This was my textbook for that.

JB: That's cool. Sagebrush Country.

SB: I've got my bookshelf behind me.

JB: I can see. Is a book your object? Or did you bring something else for your object?

SB: Actually, I do not have a book as an object. I have clothes as an object. So first off, I got this lovely skirt. You know.

JB: Lovely. Yeah.

SB: You know, it's a good texture. And when I saw it, I was just like, oh, this is great. This is going to fit well. You know, this is going to fit well. I could use more skirts in my closet, and it is too small on me, so I can't wear it comfortably. So it just sits in my closet until I can figure out how to mend it to fit me. And then this is a historic vest that my dad gave to me. And, you know, again, it looks comfy. You know, it's an okay texture, you know, comfy, pockets, but it's too big, so again I can't wear it comfortably. And that's kind of like how masculinity versus femininity feels like if I wear femininity it's just like, owe, that pinches. But if I wear masculinity, it's just like, this is going to fall off sometime. It's just a matter of when. But like if I wear something like my lab coat, then it fits perfectly. Like it's comfy. I've worn it before, I like it. So that's kind of like easy. I also did a bit of a painting. It's just, oh, it's on my lap. It kind of illustrates it, like, got blue. Kind of traditionally masc colors over there, you know, pretty cool. Got like pinks, oranges, traditionally femme colors over there. And then you got this weird green thing in the middle, and that's me.

JB: That's cool.

SB: Yes.

JB: I loved your analogy for the clothes. That's really original.

SB: Thanks, put a lot an effort into it. Also, this skirt is such a good texture. Cannot wear it yet. Not comfortably at least. Yeah. Take some wiggling.

JB: So you, have you worn either of these items out or do you like put them on and you're like, this isn't happening today.

SB: I put them on and then it's like, oh no, not happening. Because like, I'm scared to get this one dirty because, like, it's historic.

JB: Yeah. It's beautiful and it's white. So it is like-

SB: Just figured out that there's like a tie in the back, so I'm gonna be trying that out, but like this one. It takes wiggling. So, I can put it on. I can wear it, but it's going to pinch and it's not going to feel great around the waist. So like, I just stick with, like, cargo pants slash shorts, t-shirts, tank tops. I've got a really good, like tank top I like. It's very gender. It's got like, Vincent van Gogh's sunflower painting on it.

JB: Nice. Love it. So do you pick your clothes more for comfort rather than, like, expression?

SB: Bingo. Bingo. Like sometimes I'll just like, feel very masc, so I'll put on like suspenders, button ups, slacks, you know, really dressed to the nines. Sometimes I'll feel fem and I'll just wear, like, a pretty dress. And then normally I just wear cargo pants. Or if I'm having a bad knee pain day, I'll wear a skirt because it's easier to get the braces on. And like if I'm wearing a skirt, then on a masc day it's just like, yes I'm a dude, I'm wearing a skirt. I'm not wearing it to look girly. I'm wearing it so I don't have to wiggle my knee braces off and on under the pant legs. Please do not perceive me.

JB: Yeah. You mentioned okay. So you mentioned that the skirt kind of represents the femininity and that it's like pinching. It's too tight. So do you think I'm kind of wondering, like what you think about femininity as like a whole in society. Do you think it's kind of, like, restrictive?

SB: Definitely. Like, have you seen the stuff they still sell in stores? Just like, [disgusted sounds] like, bro. Why is this jacket pre-ripped? Why are these jeans cut in-? Do you need to mend them? I mend a lot of my clothes myself. It's because, like, I cannot stand having holes in clothes. And I go out and I see all these, like, trendy clothes, and it's just like. And that is specifically in the feminine section. Like no one sees a dude with ripped jeans and goes, oh, he's so trendy. They go like, Well. That guy's pants are ripped. Wonder what happened to him.

JB: It's true.

SB: Like masc clothes. They just fit better. Like, they're more comfortable. They're more utility focused. And I think that's important not just for like, my comfort, but what I do on a day to day basis because, like, I carry a lot around a lot of stuff, and sometimes I just want to put them in pockets and not in my backpack. Like, if I got pockets, I can put rocks in there. I can put moss in there like, but if I go for like a skirt, then there's no pockets. I can't put anything in there. So, like, it's pretty. But is it useful? I had a point, so I don't know where it was going.

JB: I feel like it makes sense. I, I mean, you mentioned the masculine clothes as, like the metaphor for being too big, like it's going to fall off. Can you...

SB: Like it doesn't quite fit, but, like, it kind of fits. Like, but it's like falling off. It doesn't fit great. I'm like, it fits my dad better than me.

JB: Do you think that for masc clothes in general or just that one specific vest.

SB: That one.

JB: That one. Okay.

SB: I just chose it for the metaphor because it's like big, and I only own two vests. Including that one. The other one's like slightly too small, but I wear it anyway because I love it so much. It's got like patches on it. Safety pins. It looks so pretty. I think I might have it over here.

JB: That's cool. Okay. Go grab it.

SB: Found it. What did I just sit on?

JB: Oh, very cool.

SB: Like that's good. Like, is it functional? Not really. But is it pretty? Absolutely. Does it have meaning to me? Yeah. But like. This is kind of more like form over function. I'm a very utilitarian person.

JB: Except for when it comes to that vest.

SB: Except for when it comes to this vest. And even this one, I can put like a pen in this pocket, I can, I can put patches on it. I got Friends of the Willamette Valley patch on it.

JB: It's a little bird.

SB: Plus I got it at my first pride parade. There was a dude selling clothing out of his car trunk, and I was just like, ooo. It's free fashion.

JB: That's cool. I mean, so even if you do say you go for more function over form that still has like special memories to you. So, it kind of does serve a function of you keeping it.

SB: Yeah. Plus, since it's kind of small, it can correct my posture, which is important because I slouch.

JB: Me too, me too.

SB: It's the curse, the curse.

JB: It's true. Okay. So you mentioned you went to Pride. Did you want to speak more on that? Or maybe if there's any other events.

SB: I went there once.

JB: You want there once?

SB: Only once. So far.

JB: What was it like?

SB: It's pretty cool, you know? Lots of flags. There's this one person there. Oh my god, they had like Sharpie-on facial hair and just like a button up that was like partially undone down to their cleavage.

JB: Nice. I've never been to a pride parade, but I assume that's probably something you'd see there.

SB: Yeah, it's pretty cool, but just, like, kind of loud. It's like any social gathering.

JB: It's true. Do you go to social gatherings a lot?

SB: Not often.

JB: Not often. How do you usually like to dress up for those? Or like, how do you like to present yourself for those?

SB: Kind of like "is that guy or girl?" "I don't know." "Okay." It's like neutral. Like, when I was working in a school district, I wore, like, black, buttoned up black slacks, suspenders, and this little, like, first grade girl calls me over and she goes, "are you a boy or a girl?" And I went, "that's a good question." And I walked away.

JB: Classic kid question.

SB: Yeah. Two kids have asked me that, and I was like, that's a good question.

JB: And then you just walk away. And I think that's an answer in and of itself.

SB: Yeah. Gender. I do not care for it. Give me a gander. Give me a good bird.

JB: So, what is euphoric to you when it comes to your gender? Is it like achieving that state of neutrality that you look for? Oh.

SB: I gave-I made a list.

JB: Amazing.

SB: Okay. Things that are gender: like wearing shorts. Like. Especially with pockets. Like lab coats, hoodies, tank tops, high necklines. Like being perceived as a cryptid, but in like a slightly masc way, you know, like masc-neutral and then like, it's just like gender in general, just like I don't care for it. And like. What was the question?

JB: It was, what is euphoric to you? But I guess you could also talk about what is dysphoric to you.

SB: Okay. Euphoria. Being perceived as neutral. I'm just like neutral or like, slightly gender. But like, more masculine. If that makes sense. Just like. Kind of, neutral colors as well, like greens? A-plus. Grays? A-plus. Blacks? They nice. Yellows? I'll wear them. Pinks? Cool. Blues? Cool. But just like vibrant colors, ew, it's like crypsis in a way. Like. If I was in a different environment, then I would like wearing vibrant colors, because in that vibrant, in that different environment, I would be more comfortable in them. But since I'm in this environment, I like neutrals more. That's a biology metaphor [dabs].

JB: You said "crypsis"?

SB: Yeah.

JB: How do you spell that?

SB: Hang on. C r y p s i s. This is basically a fancy word for natural camouflage. Okay. Like it's how parrots in the tropics have all these bright colors. And then shorebirds are just universally, like, tan and gray.

JB: Yeah. So it's just like the animal is fitted to their environment kind of thing.

SB: Exactly. Okay.

JB: That's cool. I've never heard of that. Yeah, I guess it makes sense. My cat's meowing. Sorry if you can hear that.

SB: Oh a kitty! What is your cat's name?

JB: My cat's name is Chirp.

SB: I love that so much.

JB: I know the shelter named for that. And she kind of chirps like a bird. So we're like all right it stays. Okay. Are there any other significant influences on your gender? I don't know if you're religious, but this could be like your religion. Maybe the type of job you have, what location you're in, where you were raised?

SB: I think something that like influenced my fashion sense, like historically was "River Monsters," because Jeremy Wade just wears like these utilitarian type things, just like neutral dark colors, just like, what a look. Religion wise? Not really. But, like, historically. My grandma was, like, a really big Methodist-type person. Yeah, Methodist. So, when I was, ugh, I just remembered! We were in the car once, going to pizza. It was me and my grandma, and she just comes out of the blue and goes, "I noticed you've been dressing more like a boy lately." The fear I felt in that moment. And she's just like, "are you a boy now?" And I'm just like, "not really. I'm kind of in between." And she's like, "oh, okay." Okay. And I'm just like.

JB: But what was that fear from? Was it from having to explain or like not being accepted?

SB: Kind of both. But she's getting really good at it. Like, she's using my preferred name and everything.

JB: That's sweet.

SB: And my [indistinguishable, most likely "papa"] was just like, oh, are you planning on going on testosterone? And I'm like, not really. He's like, oh, okay.

JB: That's nice that they were like trying to like, you know, discuss with you about it though. And like, maybe they probably did some research to learn that too.

SB: It's so sweet.

JB: That's very cute.

SB: Just like.

JB: Yeah?

SB: What?

JB: You said, "just like" I was just wondering if you had anything else to add.

SB: I might have, but I forgot.

JB: Okay. That's okay. So, were, you mentioned your grandparents, right. Do you think they had any sort of... are they a good role model to you, maybe, or like a good, like, parental figure?

SB: Definitely.

JB: Yeah, why do you say that?

SB: He's just like a dude. He is just like a guy. And I love him so much. He is a retired science teacher, and he is just very kind and accepting. And I aspire to be like him. It's just. Why be mad when you could be accepting? You know.

JB: It's true.

SB: There is an airplane going overhead and... I can hear it.

JB: We can just, wait for it to pass.

SB: Okay. It's going. It's gone.

JB: So did you ever come out, or did you just just kind of start, you know, presenting the way you wanted to, and you're like, if they figure it out, they figure it out.

SB: It was like that with the grandparents. And then I'm with my mom. I'm just like, hey, mom, I think I might be like, nonbinary. And she's just like, that's not really a real thing. Like, did you have like a historical thing about it? And I'm just like, and she just went, or is this like a way of coping with your stress and I'm like, maybe, but, like, it doesn't negate it. Like, do I have stress? Yes. But does that directly correlate to gender? No. Correlation does not equal causation, mother. But she's gotten better about it.

JB: That's good. Yeah. That's interesting. I also have like a lot of stress and anxiety and a lot of, you know, stuff going on. And I'm also, like, non-binary. And I've always wondered if it was because of all that that I like, started to identify this way. But I kind of I like your perspective on it. Like maybe it was, but it doesn't change the fact that it's how I feel.

SB: Yeah, like. Gender feels bad. It's like if someone made me eat the odd brussels sprouts. Wrong.

JB: Oh.

SB: Like, if you try to put me into a role that I do not want to be in, it will feel bad no matter what the situation is. But like. Specifically, like gender. It's just like, I don't care for it. Please get that out. [Sage does a shooing motion with their hand] That's not it. That's not good, go.

JB: This is a, like a, whatever. So this is a question that leads into the next question. Do you use social media or, like, any internet of things.

SB: Too much social media.

JB: Too much. Do you think that social media has impacted your gender in any way?

SB: Maybe. Like. A lot of the people I interact with are, just in some capacity, queer. I just realized I'm drawing a turkey.

JB: You just realized, it's true.

SB: It just got, like, the feather style. What was I saying? Oh, yeah. So, like a lot of the people I follow online are like queer in some capacity. So maybe it influenced, like, the fitting in aspect. Yeah. But, like, at the same time. Probably not all of it. Does that make sense?

JB: Yeah, that makes sense. So, you know. Maybe not really impacted, but you still like, interacted with like online queer spaces. Yeah. Were they pretty positive for you?

SB: Yeah.

JB: That's good.

SB: And one of my buddies is a trans dude. He's, that guy's a character. Like he influenced me to like, do what I like, even if it weirds people out. I have stories about that man.

JB: That's a good perspective to have, is to like, do what's comfortable to you. Did you like I mean, did you have any trouble like getting over that, need to try to fit in?

SB: Yeah. It's just sometimes I'll think like, oh, I should present like this because that's how people want to see me. But then I think if I present like that, I will throw up in my mouth a little. I will not do that. And then I don't do that because I don't want to throw up in my mouth a little.

JB: Yeah.

SB: It's about being comfortable in life. Because if you're not being true to yourself, then what are you doing? Like we're here for a good time. Not a long time. Human lifespans are too short to do what feels wrong. This week on Sage Wisdom with Sage.

JB: Sage wisdom.

SB: The number of times I've gotten that joke from, like, dudes. Like middle aged white dudes. Twice.

JB: But just like something you say and they're like, wow, that was like sage wisdom.

SB: No, they saw my nametag when I was working and they're like, how do you have any sage advice? "Heheh" Just like. Yeah.

JB: Oh, beautiful. Turkey. Turkey.

SB: Thank you. Birds. I have bigger things to worry about than like figuring out the specificity of gender. Like I used to worry about it when I was first figuring it out. Like I was just like, oh, I've got to be in this little box. But like, no, no, sweetie, calm down. Life's too short for that. Yeah. You don't have to go in the box. You can be in the box if you want, but you don't always have to be in the. I am noticing that I talk, a lot of metaphors.

JB: It's good. I mean, they're nice, I like them.

SB: Ah, thanks.

JB: I'm really bad at making up metaphors, so I like it when other people do it. [pause] Okay. So you kind of mentioned that you get your inspiration for your gender expression from River Monsters, right? So what are what are like your goals in your mind of, like how your expression would you want your expression to be?

SB: I guess I want people to look at me and be like, I don't know what gender that person is, but I know they probably just came from the woods.

JB: Cryptid.

SB: Or, I want people to look at me and think, what? Instead of what are their pronouns? Like, I'm going for mad scientist.

JB: Then it works. You already got the lab jacket to start.

SB: I do.

JB: It's true. Okay. Kind of along the same vein, when have you felt most at home in your body?

SB: When I'm out in the woods or, like, out in the wilderness, away from everything. Just like. Calm. There's birds and like no stress. And no joint pain.

JB: Why does being out in the woods of your joint pain? Or is that just like an additional thing?

SB: That's an additional thing. Okay.

JB: It's like the woods have magic healing abilities.

SB: They do after you eat the mushrooms!

JB: Oh!

SB: No, no, don't eat mushrooms out of the woods-eat mushrooms. Well, but look, if I'm out somewhere, nature and there's no pain, then I feel comfortable. I feel safe. I can focus on being alive rather than just like surviving. And like that's important to me because I want to live. I just I don't just want to be, like, clinging to life, like some half-frozen cricket.

JB: What do you think it is about being out in the woods that creates that sort of space for you to feel like that?

SB: I read this really cool book that was-hang on-said that being out in the woods actually helps with a lot of mental issues. So I think that has a lot to do with it. I'll try to focus more, I'm so sorry.

JB: No you're good.

SB: It gives me like freedom from like being put in one kind of cage of society, you know, like society puts you in like all these little packages like feminine, masculine, other. But the woods, they don't care. If you die out there, they're not going to put like an obituary on your headstone. They're not going to be like, oh, she, they, he. They're just going to be like, oh another one, okay. And I find that comforting because if the woods don't care, you can just be out there rather than be something. Does that make sense?

JB: Yeah. No it does. It's like, I mean you just mentioned being buried, like if you're in the woods, like you'll decompose the same as anybody else.

SB: Exactly, there won't be like any embalming fluid. Like there won't be someone to see your corpse and judge it, just like you'll be out in the woods decomposing.

JB: This is a little bit of a tangent, but do you have a preferred way you would like to be buried?

SB: I would love to feed the condors.

JB: Condors

SB: Just leave me out for the birds of prey to eat, like sky burial.

JB: That's so cool.

SB: Yeah, I actually have a book on condors. Somewhere in here, found it.

JB: Beautiful, one giant bird.

SB: They are giant. Look at that guy.

JB: Yikes. It's cool way to be buried.

SB: The amount of bird books is absurd.

JB: Is that your focus in your major? Or just, like, a special interest?

SB: Interest.

JB: That's cool.

SB: I have. I don't even know how many field guides I've got right now. But I got a lot of them.

JB: Okay. One of the last questions I have, actually. Well, this is like a set of questions, but. So you go to OSU, right? You're a natural resources major. I was wondering if your college experience has influenced your gender in any way.

SB: It's definitely been like, more freeing because, like back home, I was just like, I didn't have a lot of social life because, you know, lack of walkability. But like, here, I can just go out and be my best self and people will be like, oh, there goes a guy, there goes a little dude. Why is he carrying a trash bag that looks suspiciously heavy?

JB: Why where you carrying a trash bag that looks-

SB: Five pounds of English ivy that I pulled off a tree in a parking lot.

JB: To replant or.

SB: No, it's an invasive species.

JB: Really? I didn't know that.

SB: It's, one, like, on par with Himalayan blackberry. Like Himalayan blackberry. It mainly takes over the countryside. English ivy takes over the suburbs.

JB: That's interesting. I've heard of like, kudzu, like in the South.

SB: Oh that was, hmm, "the vine that ate the South."

JB: Yeah, I saw that. Yeah. I saw this map of like kudzu in the US. And there is actually some of it over in the Pacific Northwest.

SB: Oh, joy.

JB: I know, I'm like, they better get rid of that before it takes over. Okay. Another thing relating to college. Do you feel like OSU is a particularly welcoming environment for people?

SB: Pretty good, like the professors are nice, you know. It's pretty cool. Everyone's being nice. No one's just like, oh, you use neutral pronouns? That's kind of concerning. Get help. Just like I can go up [to some-] one and be like, what's up? And they're just like, what are your pronouns? Because I cannot for the life of me tell. That has happened so many times.

JB: That's awesome.

SB: Yeah.

JB: All right. Checking over my list of questions.

SB: You're doing great.

JB: Thank you.

SB: Oh.

JB: I didn't really have any other questions. Is there anything else you wanted to talk about that you think is particularly pertinent?

SB: Not really.

JB: Not really? Okay.