Jasmine Armas Oral History Interview, May 30, 2017

LRP: My name is Lyndi Petty and I will be conducting this oral history for my undergraduate thesis at Oregon State University. Today is May 3oth, 2017 and the time is 2:50 p.m. Our interviewee will introduce herself.

JA: Hi! I'm Jasmine Armas, and I am a fourth year studying zoology.

LRP: So, to begin, I'm going to ask you a little bit about your childhood. So, where were you born and raised, and what was it like growing up there?

JA: So, I was born and raised in Los Angeles County. Different cities, but the most, the one that my grandparents moved to was Maywood, California, and then my mom moved us to Lakewood, California, a few years into my elementary school. So, I regularly visited back in Maywood, California, so I still consider that my hometown. It was predominately, a predominantly Latinx community, with about 97% 00:01:00being Latinx identifying. And so, it was just very homey, I would say. It was just, I grew up with a lot of family because we all lived in houses that were across the streets from each other and they were multi-family homes, so I lived with my cousins. And, my cousins were my best friends.

LRP: Describe the, I mean you already mentioned this, but describe the community you grew up. How did your community shape you as a person?

JA: So, as I mentioned, my cousins were my best friends. They're the ones I went to school with, I regularly saw every day. And when I was growing up in Maywood. And when I moved to Lakewood, it was on a weekly basis. So, I would say that I grew up really needing that family aspect in every facet of my life. And, I got it at school through sports, through band, through different organizations that 00:02:00I met. They always filled a kind of second family role when I was away from home. So, I think my family was very, made sure to take care of each other, and our community made sure to take care of each other. And I'm not going to say there weren't toxic behaviors, and things like that, in my community, but it was always trying to take care of each other.

LRP: Nice! And is that something you feel you carry through in the work that you do and.... [laughs]?

JA: Yeah! I would say that! Behind me is a quote, my favorite quote, by an activist named Harsha Walia, "Be as loving to each other as we are dangerous to the system," so really tying that community aspect is essential to resisting systems of oppression.

LRP: Thank you, so now I'm going to ask you some questions about your time at 00:03:00Oregon State, including the Speak Out. So why did you choose to come to OSU?

JA: So, I am a first-generation student. And so, I went to a high school in a wealthy area that did try its best to prepare me for college. But I still didn't have a lot of knowledge about it, outside of the internet and what my teachers were pushing me towards. They were pushing us towards University of California schools, so UC schools, and Ivy league schools, which is not a route that I really wanted. And so I chose Oregon State, actually, because I missed the application for all California State schools and I thought that I needed to go to school immediately after high school and I didn't want to "get behind" or whatever, so I was looking at schools out of state. And I actually chose Oregon 00:04:00State because of their menu, like their food menu, and their zoology program because I'm vegan so I had to make sure that I could eat on campus. So yeah, that's essentially why I chose Oregon state, because they had a zoology program, they had a vet school that I could look at, and they had food. [laughs]

LRP: [laughs] Food is essential! So what was your first impression of OSU once you arrived?

JA: My first impression was not the most all-encompassing of OSU because I came in through Luis Stokes Alliance for Minority Participation [LSAMP], so minorities in the STEM field. So, we did two weeks together, or about a week together, where we toured the campus with other folks who were people of color or women in STEM. And so, we toured the campus; we did a lot together. We spoke to the faculty. They tried to get us into the research immediately. But like all 00:05:00my friends, so all my friends when in Los Angeles when I was down there were people of color most often, because it was pretty diverse. And then here, I came in with that group of people and I assumed that it would be diverse. Cause I didn't pay attention to, I didn't really, when I saw 70 percent of the population was white, it didn't really click in my head what that really meant until move-in day. And move-in day was the first, it was such a cultural shock. I had never seen so many white people in my life before. So that was shocking. And then just to ground myself and to remind myself who I was, because people stare, I just always had my headphones in and I was always playing Spanish music, and just minding my own business. It was an interesting transition.

LRP: So what organization did you get involved in after you arrived at OSU? You mentioned you were LSAMP? And then, what led you to be involved with those organizations?

JA: So LSAMP was actually, I was recruited when I was applying to OSU. I think that's actually one of the reasons I chose OSU because I got flyers and stuff in the mail from the LSAMP program and I was like, "Oh, I should apply to OSU then." That helped me with the science portion of it and making connections with professors and students in the same field that I'm in. Aside from that, I'm really big on, I was really big on environmentalism before I came to Oregon state, so I joined the Waste Watchers, which is a group on campus that focuses 00:07:00on education around waste reduction. And I learned a lot through that organization, but I ultimately left it just because it was very centered around, I guess, the majority of the people in there were white and it was centered around, I guess, a white experience with environmentalism. That was not something I could connect with, or international students who came to try to join the organization couldn't connect with. So I ultimately left after a term of really being involved and then at the end of the year move out, that was the last, I think, big thing I did. And I did Repair Fairs, where we sewed; I helped sew things back together and then I did demos, like DIY stuff. And then outside of those organizations I didn't really get involved with organizations per say, but I got involved with departments. My roommate, she was hired for the black, 00:08:00the Lonnie B. Harris Black Cultural Center, and so I spent a lot of time there, and that's how I ultimately got involved with Racial Aikido, which is an amazing social justice retreat. And from that, I ended up getting involved and getting hired at the Cento Cultural César Chávez. So most of my involvement has not been through student run organizations but departments on campus.

LRP: And now, do you still work for the Four C's [Cento Cultural César Chávez]?

JA: No. So I did four years at the Cento Cultural César Chávez and I did one year as a social, or, a dialogue educator for the Social Change Leadership programs. And right now, I'm working as a Peer Advisor for Student Leadership and Involvement. So, it's ultimately club support and that stuff, yeah.

LRP: Awesome! Sounds like you've been really busy during college [laughs]. So, is there anything else that you'd like to touch on about being involved in clubs or with your organizations?

JA: Oh! I, so, I'm also, my first year I joined Kappa Delta Chi Sorority incorporated, which is a Latina founded organization. And through that I got involved with the unified Greek council. So, that's the all-encompassing council for six multicultural organizations on campus. So I would say those are the ones that I got predominantly, mostly involved with outside of work. And I do want to mention that the Social Change Leadership Programs position, our department was specifically tailored and made to keep Miguel Arellano, who was the GTA for the Centro for two years. He was graduating and leaving OSU, and to keep him here, 00:10:00on campus and still working here, they created an entirely new position. And so that first year of Social Change Leadership Programs was the 2014-2015 year, it was him just getting really trying to really narrow down what specific focus of the department was. And the second year was when me, Jesseanne, and Haniya got hired for the position. And so that was the first year they had students in the position and then the last year, because they ended the program after, after we worked there last year.

LRP: Sad, but awesome that you were so involved. So, while you were working for the Social Change Leadership Programs is when you also organized the Speak Out. 00:11:00So how did you become involved with organizing of the Speak Out, and why was it important for you to create a platform for students of color to voice their concerns and experiences?

JA: So one of the biggest things about the Speak Out that we were supposed to distance ourselves from was our position as a dialogue educator and not, that the Speak Out wasn't organized because our jobs, our student jobs. But I think the only way that we would have organized the Speak Out, is the only reason that the Speak Out came to exist the way it did was because me, Jesseanne, and Haniya were hired together in this department. Because that's how I got to know Jesseanne, and Jesseanne was the person that did come to me and Haniya after a meeting, really upset about OSU not responding to students of color's concerns. 00:12:00And then that with the activism happening on other campuses, that was started by the activism in Mizzou [University of Missouri], all of that really tied together and helped us put on the student of color Speak Out, yeah.

LRP: So, was there a specific catalyst moment that sparked the Speak Out?

JA: I think the catalyst moment was just Jesseanne getting together with me and Haniya and us being like, well them primarily, being like, "This is not okay. Just, the apathy from OSU is not okay, and we need to do something about it." I think, I would say that was the catalyst moment, just us deciding, "We're going 00:13:00to do this" and then organizing it within a week.

LRP: That's impressive! Seriously, I did not know it was a week. I thought it was months. So, what were your overall goals of the Speak Out, and what did you hope to achieve?

JA: So, I don't have our list of demands from the university, which I was trying to look up earlier. For me, the ultimate goals was giving students of color a voice and just shaking up the administration. I am not a fan of institutions, and so just the student of color Speak Out really threatened OSU's marketability. And I wanted to see them actually do something about students' 00:14:00concerns on campus, and if that meant threatening their marketability, then that was what we needed to do. So I really wanted it to be a point and catalyst for Oregon State to actually act on what it speaks it does. So that's primarily what was my goal, outside of giving students of color the space they needed to talk about their concerns and address the climate of racism and white supremacy on campus.

LRP: So, there was really two primary goals, was the, providing a platform and then also really sticking OSU to their word?

JA: Mmhmm [in the affirmative]

LRP: Okay, awesome. So, describe the process of organizing the Speak Out. How long did it take? Well we alluded to that. Were there any challenges that arose in planning the Speak Out?

JA: Yeah, so it took a week. I remember, I think, I'm pretty sure we started, 00:15:00actually started on a Tuesday and then the Speak Out was the following Monday. So, I would say there were a lot of challenges. The primary one being the department, the departments we were working for did not want to be associated with our Speak Out, Student of Color Speak Out. And so they really hounded down on us about not talking, even saying the word, I feel like, about organizing a Speak Out while we were in the office working. So the challenge was still trying to get our work hours in and plan the Speak Out at the same time, and so there was that challenge. And then also, the departments that we worked for would come 00:16:00in during our work hours to talk to us about a Speak Out that they didn't want to be involved with, giving us advice and information as to what to do, even though they were telling us that they don't want to be involved in anyway shape or form with the Speak Out. And so, that was just really emotionally draining, just knowing that the people that are in positions that you thought are there for you and that would be supportive, were not, but it was also really refreshing to see other people, or other areas, or people, reaching out to support us. So one of the two, the concerns were mostly like as students we don't have the same resources that student employees do in reserving space and getting a livestream for folks who are not able to come. So the space was provided to us by the director of player personnel, which was Rachi Wortham? I 00:17:00can't remember his last name right now. And then the livestream, OSU Livestream, was paid for and provided to us by Susie Brubaker Cole. So we were supported by other areas that I didn't really expect support from. And then, so that wasn't something that we had to worry about, primarily because Rachi reserved Gill Coliseum for us and then Susie Brubaker got the livestream. But then, we were still, it was still emotionally draining, continuously being bombarded by our departments. And then, in a form of self-care, we actually took that weekend and spent it together. And on the Sunday before we had the Speak Out, we all cut our hair in some way. So I, this is still growing out [points at hair on side of 00:18:00head] I shaved this part of my hair, and then my hair was dyed red, was just doing a lot with my visual representation of myself.

LRP: And what was the reason you wanted to do that?

JA: Just like a change and just, yeah, a change

LRP: So you all did a change?

JA: Mmhmm [in the affirmative] Haniya and I cut both sides here [indicates both sides of her head] and Jesseanne got the back [indicates the back of her head] shaped like a triangle, no, yeah, some shape.

LRP: That sounds awesome.

JA: Yeah, it was just spontaneous.

LRP: So were there other folks involved with organizing the Speak Out, or was it strictly the three of you?

JA: In terms of organizing how the Speak Out would look it was primarily me, Jesseanne, and Haniya. And then outside of that, we had that support from Rachi 00:19:00and Susie B-C.

LRP: So no other students?

JA: Mmm Mmm [in the negative]

LRP: Did other students know about it? Obviously, they went to it, but while you're planning it?

JA: I can't really remember, if, how, because it started with, Tuesday, Haniya sent out an email to all administration, the President Ed Ray and all the VPs of all the different areas on campus, demanding their time to come and listen to students of color's concerns. So I think once that letter was sent out, we had a Facebook event, yeah, so students did know about it, and our friends definitely knew about it. So, people knew about it, especially since it was within a week. But there weren't other people involved, or other students involved.

LRP: So was the Facebook event your primary method of marketing the event, or was it a lot of face-to-face, word of mouth stuff?

JA: I would say it was both, Facebook and word of mouth and telling people about it.

LRP: Nice, and obviously your marketing worked really well.

JA: Yeah, and then President Ed Ray sent a letter to the entire student body. That's where we got a lot of people coming from. And then, since I was involved in Greek life at the time, or I am, I was able to connect with the director of fraternity and sorority life, because a lot of the language around our student of color Speak Out was being warped and turned into a "dialogue" and a "discussion" which is not what we wanted. And so that was another challenge actually.

LRP: So clarification, Ed Ray sent an email prior to the event?

JA: Mmhmm [in the affirmative].

LRP: Okay, to just advertise, okay.

JA: Yeah, to the entire student body about the student of color Speak Out, not naming it the student of color Speak Out, naming it primarily a "dialogue."

LRP: Oh.

JA: And then that's the language other departments go to advertise it to their departments or college. So that was one of the causes for concerns so with those departments we had connections to we tried to clarify that language was not right.

LRP: Okay. So how were you feeling leading up to the Speak Out?

JA: Nervous. I wasn't good with crowds. I also had a conference call right before the Speak Out. I think in the livestream you can see me. Leading up to 00:22:00the Speak Out I was on a conference call with somebody. It was like a 30-minute conference call. And so I was nervous, but I was also trying to deal with other stuff at the same time. So yeah, I'm not, especially the amount of people that came was a lot, I was like, "Whooo."

LRP: Do you know how many people came in the end? Did you get an official head count?

JA: I don't think we got an official head count. A lot. I can't even conceptualize how many people were there. Just the whole stadium on one side was full and then the sides. Hundreds.

LRP: Yeah, there's pictures to prove to my friends. Sorry I'm asking you all these additional questions, but I realized as we're talking that I never actually asked the other two. What was the campus climate prior to the event and were there certain needs that the university wasn't addressing? Which you 00:23:00mentioned part of your proposal, but?

JA: I don't know, my memory is not that great, so I'm not sure I remember the campus climate before. I think the recurring campus climate of apathy and just ignoring the students of color's concerns. And learning the bias, just send in a bias report, just send in a bias report, was the primary method of dealing with racism on an administrative level and nothing was done with those bias reports.

LRP: So, I'm trying to follow your specific highlights. Describe the immediate response from the OSU administration regarding the Speak Out. Did they invite 00:24:00you to future conversations? If so, did you feel that your voice was heard?

JA: We were invited to speak with President Ed Ray and his team. I'm not really sure what the rest of the VPs of the school, I don't know what the structure looks like. But we were invited to a conversation with President Ed Ray, and there were the three of us as students and then a whole table, conference table, of other people, that, whose names I will never remember, and half of the faces that I don't. I primarily see two, three, of the people on, that were at the table, on a semi every few months kind of thing. But I can't tell you who was at the table, except President Ed Ray and me and Jesseanne and Haniya.

LRP: How did you feel about being asked to come to this conversation?

JA: I think, for me, I was hopeful. I was actually very positive and hopeful that this would enact some change, and so I was really hopeful about us being invited to the table. But when we got there, I felt like it was a lot of complaining? I don't know. My immediate, the things I remember from the conversation was President Ray continuing to be like [pounds hand on table] "We cannot continue business as usual," and him just saying that over and over again. And that's exactly what I feel happened after that conversation.

LPR: But were you able to provide your thoughts and express your concerns further at that meeting?

JA: I want to say we were given a small amount of time. The majority of it was Ed Ray speaking, taking up a lot of space.

LPR: Interesting. How did you feel about the initial response and action of the administration? So referring to the email that Ed sent to everybody, creation of the Office of Institutional Diversity.

JA: And the town halls.

LPR: And the town halls, yeah.

JA: I, well since I, my initial reaction to just the creation of the town halls? Oh! [Armas receives a cell phone with Ed Ray's email] Oh this is all the stuff that President Ray said he would do? Oh yeah. Okay, so he said he would do, he'd 00:27:00create a Chief Diversity Officer, which he did, and was just hired this year, she's going to start June. Student representatives to Oregon State's existing leadership council. Quarterly town halls, that was a thing that I don't see anymore. I think there were two?

LPR: Two.

JA: There were two. And the first one was a lot of Ed Ray talking back at students after they had addressed their concerns. So students would address their concerns about different things like people wanting more space than they had, I think was primarily a lot of what was being asked, for disability access services and then veterans. I remember those specifically and I remember Ed Ray just responding to that and saying, " Well, we've come a long way doing this and 00:28:00this and this and this," and just taking up a lot of space to the point where someone had to actually call him out and the tell him how instead, "You are here to listen and not to defend the university," essentially. And then I didn't, I don't think I went to the second one, but I heard it wasn't that much better. So I think my initial, my, to the town halls, I just was very disappointed. University will create referral systems and resources to address bias concerns, a hotline, will develop required online educational programs as well as orientation programs, interracial awareness, civil and social justice and diversity for entering students. That is one thing that I think at the end of our time as dialogue educators we were asked to be part of, specifically with 00:29:00Student Leadership and Involvement, and that's where I work with now. And so, that's what I assumed I would be doing for some of the year is developing those online modules, specifically with a social justice framework and that's not what, that, just, that program, or that vision, just ended up dying sometime in the summer.

LRP: So you never actually got to be a part of any conversations about it?

JA: Mmm Mmm [in the negative].

LRP: Did they tell you why it fell through?

JA: No, because primarily for the student leadership and involvement, as a peer advisor, the online module that I'd be making would be specifically for clubs and not the first-year students. But my supervisor [camera cut]. That the online 00:30:00modules that we made for clubs and organizations, student-run organizations, would be applicable or in congruence with the first-year ones. But the first-year modules never, I never heard anything about them since, so my supervisor's vision just kind of died out with that. [Head nodding] Yeah, I think my initial, just, I felt like a lot of councils were said that they were going to be made and I didn't really see, I, we made it very clear that we didn't want to be the only students that were helping out in these councils. And that's what I felt they wanted, was that we would be the three primary people 00:31:00helping them in their councils. And I remember having a list of students who reached out to me and wanted to be involved with these councils. And I remember reaching out to the dean of student life [unintelligible]. I remember reaching out with that list and being told that they already had enough students on the committees, and that adding anymore students would essentially mess up the weekly scheduling of those meetings. And then after that conversation, I was asked to be on the committee, and then I had said, "Well, I have this list of students that had wanted to be involved. Can I forward this information to them?" I was still added to that committee without being asked if I actually 00:32:00wanted to be on it, so.

LRP: And, they were saying there was too many students even though it was just the three of you? Were there other students that they pulled in?

JA: I think, I definitely saw on email chains that I was involved with one or two other students, but as far as getting other voices in that I know wanted to be part of these conversations, they, their first, the first time I asked them was, "Oh, we have enough." And the second time they just kind of ignored me.

LRP: Interesting. So how do you feel that the OSU community, which includes other students, staff, and faculty, responded to the Speak Out and the events post Speak Out, and did anyone specifically reach out to you?

JA: The one... I remember the day after a lot of people were coming up to us that we never seen before in our life thanking us for the Students of Color Speak Out. It was a lot of administrators and faculty. I remember the department that we worked for, that had wanted nothing to do with us when we had actually organized the Speak Out, hosting a department sponsored debrief about the Speak Out, getting a lot of, I think, fake congratulations from them. And then I remember Luke Kawasaki had been working with the College of Liberal Arts, and trying to, I remember we had a Skype call with them to talk about what the College of Libera Arts could do to help support students of color. And so that 00:34:00was the, aside from just random people congratulating us, I think that's the one college or person that actually reached out to us to see what we wanted, what they can do.

LRP: And was that for students within the College of Liberal Arts, or were they trying to...

JA: Yeah.

LRP: Were they thinking of the whole campus?

JA: I think it was predominantly College of Liberal arts, and what they can do for their own college and their own students in that college, and then also how they could support our demands from the university.

LRP: So after the event, in what ways did the university decenter students of color?

JA: Let's see... Well primarily that piece of not wanting too many students 00:35:00involved with their committees. Which I don't know if half of them even exist anymore or what they're doing with them. I think the lack of transparency and communication from President Ed Ray and the fact that we don't even know what those committees are or what they're doing, or what OSU's currently doing. I think, just the overall lack of transparency is decentering students of color, because we're not being told or informed about what progress is being made within those departments, the Department of Institutional Diversity, or just the various committees that they had made afterwards, or the online modules. So just the lack of transparency. If I'm not hearing about it, then nothing is being 00:36:00done, in my opinion. So nothing is being done for students of color, if you can't tell us you're doing something.

LRP: And the point was to bring students into the conversation, not continue to leave them out?

JA: Yes. Perfect. Yeah. Another thing, I think, I didn't talk about it earlier, but we had to meet with the Board of Trustees. And the first, so they had wanted us Thursday night to have a dinner with them, I think at 8 o'clock, and then the following morning at 9 a.m. they wanted us to speak during the Board of Trustees meeting, before they had their actual meeting. And I remember, at the dinner, it was the three of us and the student representative on the Board of Trustees were the only students there with the Board of Trustees. And I remember, I honestly, 00:37:00they said something about getting to know them more, and I thought it would be us conversing about strategizing how to bring students of color into these conversations and just make this campus better. But, that's not what we got at all. I feel like it just further widened the gap, for me at least. Just hearing the conversations that they wanted to have with us instead of talking about the Student of Color Speak Out, being 15 minutes late to the dinner, getting tipsy during the dinner, and then just having conversations about their properties and the buildings they wanted built at OSU, and just all the money that I'm listening to them talk about that they're essentially, I felt, wasting, instead 00:38:00of talking about how to address students of color's concerns of racism and white supremacy on campus. And so then, the previous day, the next day, Friday, we had breakfast with them. I remember being late. We had breakfast with them and then we had, they had questions for us about what our goals were with the Student of Color Speak Out. I remember the department, the heads of the department we were working for being present for that conversation and I don't remember why? They were introducing us. They didn't even introduce us right. And I...

LRP: Did they mess up your name, or something?

JA: They messed up our positions and the depar-, Social Change Leadership 00:39:00Programs. I don't think they messed up my name at least. But yeah, and then I remember after that meeting, I remember someone talking about using more, essentially what I heard was using more delicate language around what the issues we were speaking about. And I think I remember Jesseanne getting into the mic and saying, "We're talking about racism, that's what we're talking about." [laughs]. I remember that part. And I remember after we left that President Ed Ray was given a $20,000 raise by the Board of Trustees, for the amazing work he's doing on campus, for the school.

LRP: And how did you feel about that?

JA: He was being rewarded for our Student of Color Speak Out, with money. I had just been hearing about them and their vision about what they're going to build. 00:40:00As an out of state student, I already know that most of my money goes towards that and so just seeing that they're going to use another $20,000 to just give to President Ed Ray, which I know he used for his scholarships, but that's not helping all OSU students. And so, they could have just done something else with that money. They could've not given the money. They could just stop wasting our money. That's another issue. [laughs]

LRP: So, you've touched on a lot of the things in the question I'm about to ask, but do you feel that the university is doing enough to address the concerns that were brought up during the Speak Out? In your opinion, what else could they be doing?

JA: Aside from being more transparent, about what they're actually doing right now, I think, yeah I'm hearing a lot about plans still, planning to do this, 00:41:00planning to do this and it's almost been two years. So I'm wondering what's actually been enacted outside of making the office of, or Institutional Diversity Office? And so I know there's only, I think one person right now, and there's going to be three by June? I think there's two now, and then there's going to be a third. But having three people work on systematic and institutionalized racism is very, it's going to be hard for them, and it's not enough people working on this. So, I don't think they're doing enough, yeah.

LRP: So, kind of leading off of that question, you don't think that they're 00:42:00doing enough, so would you say that the campus climate, as it is now, has not changed since the campus climate two years ago?

JA: It's definitely changed, for the worst. Just because of the current administration with the Cheeto Puff in office [referring to President Trump], and so a lot of white supremacist feel a lot more empowered on campus and are given room to feel empowered. And so I, aside from, I, you can't, I can't really "aside from" this entire Nazis in office deal, but the university is definitely not doing enough to respond to white supremacy on campus. When we did, when we 00:43:00had protested white supremacist building names, the university was very adamant about policing the way that we protest, and then had a town hall afterwards, which was not productive. It was not facilitated well, and there wasn't enough input on these, on the questions that they wanted input on because of all the side conversations and things that were going on within the people that were present, specifically this little white supremacist corner. And then, but then when there as white supremacist or white nationalist posters on campus, they were quick to respond and say, "This is not, this does not represent our campus," And so, I just don't think OSU is doing enough. And that our campus 00:44:00climate is changing for the worst because of our current administration [presumably referring to the Trump Administration] and it's still just isn't enough being done.

LRP: Do you think that the administration has created improved avenues for students of color to have this platform to talk about the issues that they face?

JA: The President and his admin-? The OSU President? Ed Ray and them? I wouldn't say that they've really created platforms because the town halls that they were supposed to have quarterly don't exist and weren't facilitated in a good way. And so, I would say that no. I'd say that departments on campus and specific 00:45:00areas of campus are putting on great events that are trying to bring space for students of color, but not the university as a whole.

LRP: Well, that is the last question I have regarding the Speak Out. I want to thank you again for your time. And then I guess one last closing thought or question would be, do you have any advice for future students who are trying to navigate OSU?

JA: Yeah! In terms of being a student, well actually no, I'm just going to be in terms of trying to do activism on campus, there's just a lot of apathy on this campus and it comes with white fragility and it comes with just a lot of white 00:46:00fragility. But also, in terms of a university standpoint, I, this is my fourth year and I'm going into my fifth year, and every year there's always been something that we've had to protest for and every year our responses and our demands are not met, so I'm quite tired of working, or trying to work with the university and go at their pace of molasses. So, my advice is, so I mentioned earlier OSU cares a lot more about its reputation and marketability to future students, as we can see with approximately 2 million dollars they're spending on this logo change, after raising tuition. So, they care more about their marketability than their students, I feel. And so, if they're not responding to 00:47:00your demands for a more inclusive campus climate, then just in any avenue that you can, threaten that reputation, in any avenue. If that means bringing reporters on to campus from different, like the Gazette Times, I don't know what, I'm from LA, CNN? No, I don't know if CNN is around. I don't know.

LRP: The Oregonian, maybe?

JA: Yeah, The Oregonian. OSU really cares about its reputation. I saw that, in, from I think Steve Clark is the VP of Marketing? Yeah. He really cares about that reputation, more than the programming that's going on on campus. So just threaten the University's reputation. Slander them.

LRP: Well, thank you for those closing thoughts. Thank you again for this oral history.

JA: Oh yeah, and be resilient, like this nopal [motions to cactus drawing behind].