David Toyama Oral History Interview, April 15, 2007

EU: David, you said, before, you were a Nissei, second generation?

DT: Second Generation.

EU: Where were you born?

DT: Hawaii. In Eva, Oahu, Hawaii.

EU: Where were your parents from?

DT: They emigrated from Japan. And, the boat to Hawaii landed about 1918, or 17, or something like that.

EU: Where did they come from in Japan?

DT: From prefectures of Okinawa. The southern most -- Southerners, the southern islands are the poor, I mean, the southern prefectures are the poor prefectures of Japan. So, most of those that immigrated to Hawaii were from the lower, and 00:01:00Kyushu is the lower main island. And on Kyushu, that lower portion of Kyushu had a sign on there, "Kohosimon Sofo" (sp?), in Okinawa. Because they went there looking for employment in the cane fields and stuff, almost all of the immigrants.

EU: What did your parents do in Okinawa?

DT: I really don't know, because, uh, I think my father claimed that he was one of the few that was, so called, educated, that means high school, or whatever. Most, I understand, was intermediate, about sixth grade, then they have to work in the field and stuff, rice patties. I would assume that that's all they did, work in their own rice patties and things, because I doubt that there was any employment, as such, you know for the vast majority.

EU: How old were they when-- Did they emigrate together? They were married here 00:02:00or there?

DT: No. In Hawaii, they were married. The majority of them were picture brides, in those days. Well, the custom in Japan was all arrangement: arranged marriages. You know the parents would arrange that, so it was no different than a picture bride. The parents would have to, I guess, select them, send them the wife to be over.

So, my father came over first, and my mother several years later, a couple of years anyway, at least. Oh boy, if 1918, uh, I can't figure how old they were then. I would figure kind of young, but, twenty, or early twenties. My father, 00:03:00my mother was little younger, a couple of years younger. And the trouble is, if I can remember, I can't remember when my mother passed away, but she was just about ninety years old. 1990, twenty, and seventy-- I'm not sure, I think fifteen, 1918. (Unintelligible)

EU:: And so she was a picture bride?

DT: Yes, she was a picture bride.

EU: Did they ever talk about that? Tell you stories of when they first met?

DT: No, because that was almost like the accepted practice over there. And, in fact, even when I was over in Japan, I was surprised that a lot of parents try to arrange marriage for their daughters still, because of business relationship. And, so, this one young lady that used to come over and play with my two 00:04:00granddaughters, because she wanted to learn English, used to complain to my wife that her father was trying to get her to meet this person. She was going to University in Japan, and they don't like that idea, parents, generally. But, she said that the father kept begging her because it meant that, if he could arrange a marriage to this person's son, who was the [Chief Executive Officer], or the Chairman, the Chairman of a big steel company that I forget the name of, anyway, if he could arrange that, then this Chairman would pull him in as a Chairman and retires. He was ready to retire from the police agency anyway, you know, but they were still doing that arranging type thing in Japan. So, way back in my parents' age, it was just an accepted fact.

EU: Did any of their relatives, brothers or sisters, come along with them?

DT: My father's brother came along, but, two of them came. But, I hardly know them, because we lived on the island of Kauai, and they live on the island of Oahu, those two there. In those days, you don't have money to travel island to island, you know, because, it was, we were in a depression era anyways.

EU: You said you were born on Oahu?

DT: I was born on Oahu, because they first came to Oahu, and then they moved to Kauai, my parents. His brothers remained on Oahu.

EU: What were they doing on Oahu, when they first came?

DT: I am not sure what they were doing, but not in the cane field. It's a city, you know. What they were doing? I wouldn't recognize them too, because I was still young too. And I don't recall meeting them anywhere in Oahu, you know 00:06:00together in Honolulu.

EU: Why did they decide to move to Kauai then?

DT: My Father? I think because he heard that employment is easier to obtain in cane field working for a sugar plantation. And so, he moved to Kauai. And he started out working for the sugar plantation, but he, and that's why he claimed that he was a high school graduate before he came over, so about 18 when he immigrated, but he said he was going to learn English, and he went to high school and learned English. And, uh, he was, I guess, knew English sufficiently well that he was hired as the Kauai representative for the state building and 00:07:00loan association. That's a Salt Lake City loan association, and he was made the Kauai agent, or representative.

The reason they sought a Japanese, uh, is because a lot of the immigrants are Japanese over there, the workers in the cane plantations. So, they wanted their accounts, in other words. His job was to approach all of them and sign the papers (??) they put $2.00 down, or whatever the savings is, and he goes to a local back, and then ship it to them. They had a branch in Honolulu, so, the main branch, and that's how he was doing business. And, he was one of the very few that was able to buy a Model-T, because they gave him the money to buy, well needed a car to go town-to-town to collect money.

EU: So that was a full-time job for him?

DT: It was a full-time job.

EU: So he stopped working in the fields then?

DT: Oh, yes, because he stopped making good money then. He was really fortunate 00:08:00in that since. And this is why used to always hit us on the head and say 'You gotta study, you gotta get an education. I couldn't have gotten this job if I didn't study English.' He used to tell us this all the time.

EU: Did your mother study English?

DT: Not really, because our family had eight kids. So, eight kids, but not only that. I grew up with four of my cousins, because my father was the oldest, and, in their customs, the oldest, when these kids', my four cousins, parents both passed away, he had to take them. So he brought them over to Kauai, and they lived with us. They grew up with us.

EU: This was the uncle in Oahu then?

DT: No, they came from Hawaii. They weren't all, but he had to bring them over to Kauai to stay with us. By then he was able to do that, because he was making, you know, better than the $20 a month that the can fields used to pay. I don't 00:09:00know how much he was making, but, uh.

The youngest was about three or four, my cousin. The oldest was my age, we were the same age. So, they must--I can't remember how old, but twelve, when they came over. So we grew up as a family of twelve, so my mother had to stay and cook for twelve, fourteen, in fact, with them.

EU: What kind of house did you live in?

DT: Typical, well, the majority lived in plantation homes; row after row of plantation homes. And they had no electricity to the plantation homes then, but we had electricity, a one light bulb type thing, I remember, in the living room and in the kitchen. But, uh, because we lived not in the plantation homes, after he got the job, because he was able to get a house. But it was a typical old 00:10:00Hawaii type home with that metal roofing, you know, that kind of thing. Looking back now, it was a little better than a chicken coop, I guess. It was a simple type of house, but how fourteen stayed in there, I don't know.

EU: So did you speak English or Japanese at home? Or both?

DT: Both, because my father spoke English. So for my younger ones, nothing but English, he spoke. And my mother knew enough, because she would shoo them out in English and that kind of thing, you know. Even here today, some would understand, the older ones, very few terminology. They don't speak Japanese, because nobody spoke Japanese at home, and my parents would not, and their friends, they wouldn't. Because I was stationed in Japan for seventeen years, I 00:11:00learned Japanese, but at home it was almost all English. Except for the younger ones who wouldn't understand, you know. EU: And, of course, you went to school here?

DT: Yes, I went to school on Kauai and, uh, my first year in high school, 1941, and the war broke out in 1941, I think, yeah. My father passed away in about, that summer, in June, and as the oldest boy in a family of fourteen on Kauai, I had to drop out of school and work in the pineapple field. I think I worked in a cane field first, and a friend got me into the pineapple field, because in the cane field, young people like us, were lucky to make about $16 a month. In the pineapple field I got near, I think it was about $25. More than what the adults 00:12:00were making in the cane field type job. So, I had to quit and work about a year, then I figured I'm not going to spend my life, and remembered what he used to tell me, 'you gotta get an education,' and I had to quit. So I told my mother that I am going to go to Honolulu, and I am going to find a night-time job, and I am going to work at nights and go to school during the day, and I did that.

So, I went to Honolulu, and a friend rented me, and boy was [unintelligible], just the clothes we had on. We had enough to pay for the fare to go to the boat to go to Oahu. I still don't remember where he went. I found a job in a restaurant that paid room and board, and so I went to, in that time I finished Honolulu Business College. So at least I had the two year certificate in accounting. And although I had to work over forty hours at night, I still 00:13:00graduated with, I think, the outstanding accounting student, and so I was able to get a job right away in an accounting office, because of it. My career started out in accounting.

EU: How old were you during Pearl Harbor then, in 1941? Do you remember that?

DT: Oh, yes, because I was 15. I just made 15. Besides, I remember Pearl Harbor very well because we were in church and the minister, it was a Baptist church, Reverend Ganda (sp?), he said that we all better go home because somebody heard off the radio that Japan is attacking Pearl Harbor. So, he sent us home, and we went home, but then someone came in calling and says that I got to report to 00:14:00this Civil Defense. I had never heard of that before. It was a civil defense organization and everybody high school age, 15 or older, had to report, so I did. They asked, 'Who has a license?' I said I had a driver's license and my father had the Model T. So they said --

You know how I said I got the license? I never did go and get a test. I didn't even go to the Police Station to get it. My father, in those days everyone was real friendly, he took two chickens. It was a one-man police station, and he took the two chickens and said, 'you got the license.'

It was a good thing that I had the license, because then we made a convoy, and they drive us out there and say, 'you park your car here, and you park your car here,' you know. It was straight stretches, you know, to prevent the Japanese 00:15:00from landing. They did that. I do recall that very well.

Even if I didn't drop out of high school, I still would have had to anyway, because after they attacked, nobody would go to high school. They suspended that too, and the high school age people, we had a grade school, we had to go dip these zigzag trenches around so that kids could jump in the trench when there was an air-raid and things like that. And also, they used us to build an evacuation camp, way up in the mountains. They would take us to the mountains, and all day long, we had to-- Free labor, you know. We make cheap homes (??), we cut the trees down, and make a log home type of thing.

EU: Who was that for, the evacuation camps?

DT: The evacuation never did come.

EU: Oh, they never even did.

DT: But they did prepare for that. So, yes, I do remember Pearl Harbor.

EU: So, uh, of course, in the community, it was just only Japanese Americans, right?

DT: It was mostly Japanese, but the younger ones, my age, of course, were Japanese Americans. So, the majority in the whole Hawaiian Islands was Japanese during that era. Then, after the war, because all of the sailors and soldiers that went through Hawaii and got to know Hawaii, a lot of them came back to live in Hawaii. Then, with in a few short years, Caucasians were the majority, and the rest of them were less than that population wise. But, uh, yes, that was then.

EU: Was there ever any bombing then? Or any air-raids on Kauai?

DT: No, not on Kauai, no. On Kauai, Oahu and Kauai-- What was intended for Kauai, nobody know, but there is a small island close to Kauai, and it is known 00:17:00as Niihau, and that was an island that was own by somebody. I don't know, Robinson? It was a strange thing, but he would commit only Native Americans to live on the island. He owned an island, a pretty big, good-sized island, but one of the planes crashed landed on that. And the natives, I guess, captured or killed the pilot, I don't remember. But, there was the news that it crashed on the island. But that is the closest they came to Kauai.

EU: So, you were in this business school during the war then, right? During World War II?

DT: Yes, yes, because to go to business school, I had to move to Honolulu, as I 00:18:00mentioned, maybe in 1942, because one year after the attack, I was still working the pineapple field. And, I was in business school and working at nights then. I graduated after about a year and a half, and it was a two year school, remember, and in a year and a half I graduated. Because they permitted us to go ahead, and if you think you can do it, go ahead and accelerate yourself. It was real nice, and I did that. I obtained employment in an accounting office in a big corporation known as Von Hamm Young; I don't know whether they still exist, but anyway, in the accounting apartment.

Then I got my draft notice. It says, you know, 'you will report to the draft board on a certain and certain date. So, I went back and told my boss, 'I'm 00:19:00sorry, I'm getting drafted and I'm going to go.' And I went back to Kauai to visit my family, because they were still there.

And, uh, after I visited them I came back, and on the date that I was supposed to report to the draft board, I went there. There was a big truck there. They would call the names off of the roster, and they would jump on the truck. They never did call my name, so I asked them, 'I got this notice?' And the guy looked at it a little, "You're not on my list,' he said. So he says, 'You gotta wait 'til 8 o'clock, and when the office opens, you talk to them.' So, I went in there and they explained to me that I got a deferment because my company, Von Hamm Young, said that they had transferred me from their accounting office to their tire recap department, and the tire recap department was classified as a defense industry because it did all the recapping for the Navy and Army that was in Oahu. So they named me as the accounting clerk in the department, and so they 00:20:00got me deferred from the war in that sense. And then, so, that's why I never did serve during the war too, because of that deferment.

EU: So were, uh, did the people then who get drafted, did they get drafted into the 100th? Not the 442nd?

DT: The ones that got drafted in Hawaii were the 100th Infantry

EU: The 100th Infantry?

DT: Yes, the 100th Infantry Battalion. They were the ones that made, that became, after about 20 casualties (??) later, they merged them into the 442nd Regiment, as one of the battalions in there. But the 442nd Regiment, I mean Battalion, the 100th Battalion that gained the most fame, the most medals and things in the war of any unit in the United States. And this, so they, I remember seeing pictures, but in Hawaii, they used to have this saying, 'Go For 00:21:00Broke,' and that became their slogan for the 100th Battalion, 'Go For Broke.'

EU: Did you know many of those --

DT: Oh, yes, yes. They were mostly about a year older than me. Most I knew came back, fortunately, but there were a lot of causalities. I didn't know them, but there were. I didn't have to go to war because of the deferment. And also, they added on mine, also later, four people, four dependents, for the youngest four in the family, because they were not old enough to take care of themselves. The four children, plus the employment deferment, I never was drafted.

EU: Did you know about the evacuation of the people, you know, on the West Coast, you know, that went into all the different camps?

DT: Yes, we heard that because right on Kauai after grammar school, we had to run to Japanese school. Because the Japanese school there, if school was at 2:30, then Japanese school was at 3:00, and from 3:00 to 5:00. And the Japanese were very, very strict, and you had to be there before the class. All the classes would line up in front, and then the principal, there was a second floor there, and the principal would come up on the second floor, come up by the stairs, and one of the teachers would yell attention, and just like an army, snap. When the principal was standing there, the teacher would read this, I can't remember, this thing, this character thing. First I would listen to my teacher, next I would listen to my parents. I would listen (??) every single day, and what they were saying in class and things like that. I did learn the 00:23:00basics of Japanese. I went 8 years, to that. I was just starting my, they had a special, like a ninth year group, and I was in that, but then the war broke out.(Phone Rings)

DT: Excuse me, let me get that.

EU: David, you were telling us about the Japanese school that you went to for eight years.

DT: Eight years.

EU: Was that every day after school?

DT: Every day after school, Monday through Friday

EU: Did you just learn the language, or did you learn other things there?

DT: Well, uh, that's the three (??), reading, writing, that kind of thing. Mainly reading and writing. We would read from the text book, you know. They 00:24:00would have us write things out. So, we had to learn those Chinese characters. Now, to what extent we learned, I don't remember, but the easy ones, of course. You know, the ones that you start off with, they're basically that.

But we were talking about a relocation camp as well as the Japanese school. The teachers, by this time, I heard that all were sent to the relocation camps, because they were Japanese nationals. I guess they felt they had to close of ties with Japan.

EU: So, even from Hawaii, they were sent to the relocation camps on the mainland?

DT: Yes, some did, but they were very selective on who was sent to a relocation camp, but we knew that was going on because of that. It was very few though, really, comparatively speaking, you know, the numbers. Things like priests, 00:25:00because they had the Buddhist Temples, those priests were also taken. And, I think, Japanese fisherman, if you were a fisherman, I think some of them were hauled away too.

But, otherwise, the strange thing is, during the summers, when I moved to Honolulu, there is no school or class during the summer, so I used to work on a military base. The base, where I worked, itself is all Japanese-Americans. So, we were on military bases, like, I remember, one was a Naval Air Training Station. So, we were stringing that camouflage netting. They have this cable over this, they make bunkers, hangers, like in front of planes, with sand built up on the side. And there were posts up there, and we had to go on this cable, this thick cable, maybe 2-by-6 feet long, to cut the cables and string, tie the camouflage netting on top of that, so you can't see from the air. But, so they 00:26:00had us on the base, and we were closer to the Japanese coming down to Midway and all those places than the West Coast, because the West Coast, everybody got evacuated.

EU: Was there ever any anger or bitterness about the irony on the mainland, or people being put into camps?

DT: No, the funny thing was, in Hawaii, I guess, they didn't realize what really was going on. And, unfortunately, too, in that era, they never used to get a long, the state-side Japanese and the Hawaiian Japanese. Even in the 100th Battalion, the 100th Battalion was all Hawaiian, when they merged with the 442, then the majority was state-side Japanese-Americans, and I understand they used to clash a lot.

EU: Why was that?

DT: The Hawaiian people figured that they would stick together and the mainland people would stick together, and they had two different camps. So, my friend used to say, when I was in the Battalion Office, one of the guys in the office was with the 442, and he was from California, and he says-- This Hawaiian guy was there, and he says-- What do they call him? Uh, First Sergeant, or whatever it is. He got to go out and choose things (??), 'Get out, get out of here.' And then it was not nice anymore, 'Get the hell out of here.' They had to go out and form a line and clean the yard and stuff like that. And he says to the other person, there was this one guy, one kid came up and said, he said, 'Yo, pick me up.' And he says, 'Pick you up? Can't you walk by yourself?' See, I didn't know what he meant then, but what he meant is that he wanted to fight me. Except he didn't learn [unintelligible, slurred speech]. But they would not tolerate that, military wise, he got into trouble. You know, he may be a Private, and this guy 00:28:00could be a First Sergeant, and they didn't care. They never used to get along before. Why, I don't know.

They called the, the Hawaiians all called the mainland-Japanese 'Kutonk.' Kutonk, they said, because if you drop them, you hit them and they drop, the head would hit the ground, and they would say 'Kutonk.' So they named them Kutonk, because they fall easy. They used to tease them like that. It's really weird, the history of that one.

But, Hawaii people, I would blame them for that, that discriminatory attitude, because, uh, she, would be my, it used to be, my niece was going to school in Concordia, in Portland. That's a University that she got into, and I did help 00:29:00the mother to find one of the houses they rented and help them find second-hand, and by second-hand, you know, dining set, and things like that for them, but she was my niece. Once we drove up there, just for the lunch hour, and so here she is walking. The house is about one block or two blocks from the school. So, it was just a walking commute. She was walking back with two other girls and they all had these lunches, in little plastic boxes, and they went into the house and took out their food and started eating. And I said, 'Why do you guys, why do you waste time, you know it's a 5, 10 minutes back and fourth, and eat in the Cafeteria?' They said, 'Oh,' they don't like it. 'It's all state-side people.' So university kids and girls are stiff (??). Isn't that something? I was really surprised at them. Especially in my case, I have been living over here for how many years, since 1969, so about 35 years, you know. So my son is married to a 00:30:00Caucasian and my daughter is married to a continental (??). So my granddaughters are all-- But those three, I can't understand it. They're still like that. But the old days, I know that when the 442 and the 100th Infantry Battalion, they used to have problems, that same outfit.

EU: How did you get into the MIS, the Military Intelligence Service?

DT: The Korean War. When the Korean War broke out in 1950--

EU: So you were working in Honolulu throughout the whole war?

DT: Yes, at first I was working in that public accounting office. In the Von Hamm Young accounting office, and then I checked and understood to be a CPA 00:31:00[Certified Public Accountant], you had to first work five years in a public accounting office, not a corporate office. Because, you know, you are exposed to various types of businesses, in a public office. So, I worked in a public office. We had to take exams. I took the exam. I did pass, so I just opened, I got that something in my car and what not (??), a public accounting office. I did that. Shortly after I opened that public accounting office is when I got my draft notice. So, it must have been about September of 1950.

EU: So, you got a second draft order then, for the Korean War?

DT: For the Korean War, yeah. The first one I was deferred. But, so, this one, I was sent to Korea, the Korean War was going on, and we went there in December of 00:32:001950. It was real terrible, going from Hawaii to the mountains of Korea. And in winter, there was nothing but snow on the hills. And we were sent up to the mountain tops everyday, and you had to dig foxholes. At night, you get a shelter-half. They were so unprepared for the war, and theoretically, the two-buddy system, with the shelter-half, shelter-half, put together to make a tent. But those that didn't have enough, so some have shelter-half, some don't have. You just have your raincoat to cover yourself. It didn't matter too much, because every night we would be chased up the hill by the Chinese that came in. They would chase up the hill every night, we got chased up. In the morning then, 00:33:00since we have artillery in the Air Force, they would go and chase them up the hill, then move up the hill and back. That's all it was, back and forth, in the Korean War.

EU: Where did you do your training?

DT: In Schofield, that's in Hawaii. For three months.

EU: Had you ever been out of Hawaii then, to the mainland, before?

DT: Before that, no, I had not.

EU: So, when you went to Korea was the first time?

DT: I went overseas, yes, to Korea. And then about one month, I think, of just being chased up the hill every night and nothing but snow to live in, you know, we got kicked off the hill as usual, but this time, they chased the U.S. forces down the hill too. So, they over ran our kitchen train. The people working in the kitchen used to live in nice, big tents, and they didn't go up on the hill. They sleep in tents, but they got overran. So, about three of them got hurt.

And so, the next morning, after we got stabilized, they were saying, the whole company got assembled and there was about two hundred people, and they said, 'who wants to work in the kitchen?' Everybody wanted to step into (??) the kitchen, and everybody volunteered. The company commander said, 'Okay, I'm gonna make it fair." The mess sergeant, the guy in charge of the mess hall, and him would be the judges, and everybody go through the line and make the same breakfast: two eggs, because we had fresh eggs there, two eggs and three pancakes, I think. You make your own, and they watch you making that thing. And so, when I was going through the line, I said, 'this should be easy,' I said. Then I went to turn that pancake over to him, and there were some out there that had not even put it down yet. And that's when working in a restaurant while I was going to business school really paid off. I knew when to just flip it over. 00:35:00But the thing, I figured, well, I could be risky and take a chance, but, actually I was basically guaranteed to get in the kitchen train if I don't goof this up. I got the egg, and I cracked it in a frying pan, and we about had it. I broke the shell and tore the shell away, and I did two of them. And then, you had to make it over easy. So I never liked using a spatula to turn over, so I just used the flip I had, and flipped it over nicely. So they say, 'you are it.'

So, I got off in the kitchen train for about a month or two, then the word came out. It says, 'Does anybody speak Japanese?' And, I says, 'I do', and I says, 'Why?' And they said, 'Because the intelligence unit is looking for people to speak Japanese to become interrogators.' Because they wanted interrogators. I said, 'I speak enough Japanese.' So, they flew us from the frontline way to the 00:36:00headquarters, way, way down south, where an airplane had to fly you down there. And then this guy that was giving us this test in Hawaii (??) said, 'Okay, all you guys got one night,' and they gave us this military book, big book, I still have it, I think, as a souvenir, with all the military terminology. They said, 'you better study this tonight, because tomorrow the exam is on military terminology, which is what you are going to have to interrogate prisoners on.'

So, there was a book and I studied it and the next morning I took a test, and it says, 'Sorry, you just missed it. You got a 9.9 and you need a 10.0 minimum.' So, I told the guy, 'it's not fair. That book is that thick, and you expect us in one night to learn all that. He says, 'Have you ever heard half, or three fourths of the terms that are in there in Hawaii?' I said, 'No. If you ask me in simple language, I will give you the answer,' you know. We tried that. He gave some example, he did. He looked at things and the technical terms they have in the book. 'A mountainous region,' I ain't never heard that before, but when he 00:37:00says 'a lot of mountains,' I thought what he means is 'lots of mountains.' Yes, I know. He says, "Okay, and your 9.9 is close enough. So, with you, another night.' And I passed, and that's how I got into intelligence.

EU: So, who were you-- Why did they need a Japanese speaker in Korea?

DT: Because they found out that all of the Koreans, the North Koreans, my age and older, right, they all spoke Japanese, because Japan had occupied Korea for many, many years. They all spoke Japanese. So, our interpreters were Korean teachers. We had three Korean teachers, and, of course, they were fluent in Japanese too. So, and they were fluent in Chinese, too. So, these teachers, when we got Chinese prisoners, they would talk to them in Chinese. So, I learned many of the Chinese terms also because of that repetition, you know, day after day. But, so, that's how I got into Intel.

But, then, it was a one year tour, and every night we used to drink beer. And, 00:38:00of course, typical military, they would just sit around and drink beer. And these two fellas who used to be in civilian clothes, they had a separate table right close to ours, and with certain prisoners, they would tell us to refer to them. I forgot what the criteria was, but in any case, they were all in civilian clothes, and I didn't know what they wanted. Then one night we were drinking and he says, 'When you going back?' I was going back in like two weeks or something. They said, 'Would you like to go back and work in our outfit?' I said, 'What kind of outfit are you in?' They said, 'Counterintelligence school.' I said, 'Counterintelligence school, what the devil is that?' Then they said, 'Well, you wear a suit and tie in Japan. You don't have to wear a uniform.' Then I said, 'Well, heck yeah!' And then they said, 'Well, okay.'

Then they gave me a simple test and they said that they were going to mail it back to the unit and get it back right away. And they said, 'Okay, you're accepted,' they said. 'You passed the test,' they said. So, they gave me $300 00:39:00that day. They says, 'When you reach Japan,' he says, 'you go to the PX [Parcel Exchange] and you buy suit and tie and civilian shoes, and then you report to this address in the down town. I think (??) its an office building, and you can't go there in uniform. And that's how I got into military intelligence.

EU: Were you married at that time?

DT: No, I was single, but then I got into the Counterintelligence Corps and we were assigned to one field office, we had what they called field offices, and our job, mainly, is to work through the Japanese government agencies, the police agencies and the intelligence agencies, like a liaison. It was still the occupation era, so they were still under us. So, even the police Chief, if you wanted to see him, you didn't need to go there, you call him and tell him 'I want to see you,' and he has to come into our office, because it was still that type of period.

But, so, everything was, what shall I say, not like being in the service, or 00:40:00doing any working, and we had a carpool, a motor pool, would drive us. Anytime we wanted to go anywhere, we just a get a cop and they would take us around where we want to go.

EU: And so you were stationed then in Tokyo?

DT: Kobe.

EU: Oh, Kobe.

DT: First in Kobe. And, so then I wrote to Jean. I said, 'Hey, you want to come to Japan and get married? It's like our honeymoon the first year in Japan." And I described what I do, so you see (??), not the military life seriously (??). So she said, "Okay," and she came. So we got married in Japan.

EU: Where did you meet her? How long had you known her?

DT: I knew her from when I was going to Business College, because we used to part-time in the same restaurant. That's how I got to know her there. And so in 00:41:00Kobe, we got married. I got a picture there someplace. We had to get married three times, so we have three anniversaries; because they told me that first I have to register with the Japanese Ward Office, it's the City Hall, and I have to open a family registry under my name, and then add her on as my dependent, because she's there on a tourist visa. Then she would be a dependent of the military as far as the Japanese government is concerned. I had to do likewise with the American Embassy, go to the American Embassy, and it's, what do you call them, paper tight ceremony. I tell them, 'Yeah, she's my wife,' and then so I gave them my Marriage Certificate, so she would have a military dependent type visa, not that tourist visa that she came over. Then we had a regular church weding at the Post church. So we had three ceremonies.

EU: You said before that you had gone to the church in Kawai, a Baptist Church.

DT: Yes.

EU: So you were Christian then, not Buddhist?

DT: Yes, not Buddhist. No. Because, what did they call those people? Anyway, I went as far as being baptized, I remember, and baptism in those days was in the ocean, you had to go. I guess that why they call it 'Baptist' too, you have to be baptized. But that's how I got my name, David, too, because the Minister's wife, Mrs. Gonder, they're Canadians, from Canada. They were missionaries in China for many years, and this last assignment in Kawai was there retirement. 00:43:00You know, last assignment before retirement and go back to Canada. But they were there three years, and I was going to church and she told me that I would have to go and get the legal English name put on because my Japanese name, she says, you know it's embarrassing because people think I am Piecing you (??), because she pronounced my name 'Casanova.'

EU: What was your Japanese name?

DT: It's 'Kazunobu (??),' but she can not pronounce Kazunobu (??) so she said Casanova. So she said, 'You go get it,' and then she just picked a name, and said, I want you to go get the name 'David' in there too. That's how I got to be David. So then they legalized it. And when I went to Honolulu Business College, the principal was a lawyer. And when they asked me at school if this was my legal name, I said, 'Not really.' So they said, 'He'll legalize it for you, if you want.' So, I says, 'Yeah,' then he took the paperwork and made it legal.

EU: Did your brothers and sisters and your cousins, did they have Japanese names then or English names?

DT: Japanese names, that's why, let me see [unintelligible mumbling]. They never 00:44:00had English names, none of them, because of that. Uh, one of them, I don't know whether it's legal, but I guess if you use it long enough it becomes legal. One of them, was it Inrichihy (??) adopted the name Richard and was known as Richard. But the others are just regular Japanese names.

EU: So, can you tell me a little bit about Jean's family then?

DT: Jean's family, yes, they were-- When I first met them, they were in Honolulu, or Kaneohe, one of those towns or cities, whatever it is, across the island from Honolulu. It's a mountain range, and across there, they had a large banana patch there, huge acreage in the banana field. So, I know that they use 00:45:00to do that, the banana field. But, I don't remember, but all the sudden that family, her family, moved to Los Angeles. Of course, her parents were all retirement age too, or at least they were by then (??). So, they moved to Los Angeles., and I think they sold that banana patch and what not, and moved there so. Her brother, she has not brother-- Her sisters took a move with her parents, so they moved also to Los Angeles, and they all stayed in Los Angeles. So we used to drive down from here a lot to L.A., every summer you know, with my grand kids, and visit them. But, oh I can't remember the time, but they both passed 00:46:00away many, many years ago. Fifteen, twenty years ago, I forgot now.

EU: Okay, getting back to Kobe, then.

DT: Kobe?

EU: So you were first stationed then in Kobe?

DT: Kobe first, yes.

EU: So where did you live then after you got married?

DT: Where did I live?

EU: Where did you live? Did you have a home in a Japanese neighborhood? Or did you live on the base? Or where--

DT: No, they had military housing, so we stayed in there, in the military housing, which is real nice too. So we lived there from, uh, the 1950s, when we got married, she came over-- No, I got drafted in 1956. In '52, she came over and got married. The reason I stayed in, she wanted to stay. I was done, about ready to get out, because it was a two year, a two and a half year thing, the 00:47:00draft, and that's it. So, she wanted to stay in Japan a little longer because if they wanted to go to the PX, they get a car and a chauffeur to drive them down there. They had the real easy life. A lot of people had amazed (??) because all it cost them was about ¥9,000, which was $22.00 or something like that, a month, which was a good raise for them too.

Life was real easy, so I said, 'Okay, I'd like to stay in one year then." Then when I extended one year, they said, 'Okay, your status as special agent is temporary because you did not go through that course.' And I had to attend a six-month course that was in Baltimore at the time. And since I had already extended myself to one year, they sent me to that school.

EU: In Baltimore?

DT: In Baltimore. And, it was six months. I had to go through that intelligence school. And after I finished, they said, 'Well, you're going back to Japan.'

EU: Did Jean go with you then?

DT: Oh, yes.

EU: To Baltimore?

DT: Baltimore, too. And that's how nice that outfit was. Every place, except for when I went to Vietnam, of course dependants can't go there, and a one year tour in Korea also, not during the Korean War, but after when I became a-- In the intelligence unit, so '57, in '56, we were sent back to Japan, this time in Tokyo. Because by then I had the Kobe experience also, and they needed people 00:49:00that spoke the language a little more fluently because it's all national headquarters there, in Tokyo. And there are many, many agencies that we had to maintain a liaison with. And that's why they would not send me home, because they don't have enough people that spoke the language. And that's why we eventually ended up 17 years.

EU: 17 years?

DT: In Japan, yeah.

EU: So, you were first in Kobe, and then you went to Korea, and then Tokyo?

DT: Yeah, from Kobe, I went to Baltimore. Then finished the school, and to Tokyo.

EU: Oh, Then to Tokyo?

DT: Yeah, and I stayed there a long time.

EU: Where did you live in Tokyo?

DT: Well, uh, I know the second place. I'm not sure (??), but the first one was, uh, I forgot the name of it, but it became the Olympic housing. The military 00:50:00turned that housing over for the Olympic Village.

EU: By Yoyogi?

DT: By Yoyogi. Yoyogi Station. How do you know Yoyogi Station?

EU: I taught English in Japan.

DT: Eh?

EU: Yeah, and I lived in Shibuya.

DT: Shibuya, yeah.

EU: So, that was right near where the Olympic-- Yeah.

DT: The Olympic housing there.

EU: I forget what kind of housing-- As a matter of fact (??), the Yoyogi Train Station was there, and then right behind the train station is a Jasuke (??)-- Not a Yasuke (??) shrine, but some other shrine anyway.

EU: Meiji shrine?

DT: Is that a Meiji shrine? I forgot.

EU: Yeah.

DT: Then right in the back of the shrine is that housing. We stayed there, and later we got moved to Narimasu.

EU: To where?

DT: Narimasu. It's, uh, Narimasu would be, I guess, north of Shibuya. Going towards Saitama anyway, the next prefecture. Closer to Saitama more than-- There was another mess of houses and a neighborhood there. And that's where we moved to.

EU: Did you get out, I suppose, into the Japanese neighborhoods and all around Tokyo for shopping and things?

DT: Yes, for shopping we used to go down, especially even for dinner and things because-- In fact, over there, my, I don't know how all my daughters, in Japanese, they are 52 and 53 now, I remembered, how old they were, and my son, ten more. On nights, they would go out for dinner a lot, because there was sushi there, you know one bowl of a sushi thing, was something ¥100 or something. It was 30¢ you know. There was no sense in them cooking when they could go out. 00:52:00Also because I hardly go home at night, because the liaison and Japanese aides, all they would do is drink and party. And you know how big it is in Japanese custom when you go out with one section chief-- Every department has four sections, so you got to make sure that you make the same rounds because if they found out that you had been out with these guys and not with me and that type of thing, then you would be in trouble.

Likewise golf. That is why I started to take golf, because golf was becoming popular in the division chiefs and up can go golfing, so, if they go with me, because of liaison, you know. So, I had to go golfing every single day for five days. And since they were just learning, every single one of them wanted two 18-holes, two 18-hole rounds a day. So, we would go out early in the morning, play 18, have lunch, then 18, then they would take me to dinners. Everyday, 00:53:00everyday that happened. Saturday and Sunday, I would go golfing with my friends, but some times I would have to go with them too. But, uh, towards the end, after I became the, military wise, they called it the

Commander, in our agency it was known as Special Agent in Charge. The person in charge of the Tokyo office. I was in charge of that, so towards the end, so it was worse. If you were the head man in that office, and you don't go, you insult, you know, when they don't get an invitation. I know they valued education, so I told them, 'Look, I'm sorry, but I am taking classes at night,' which I did. I did that because after you drink every night and every night, it's really hard work. And so, I had to make assignment; you tonight, you tonight. Then I had to explain to them why, because I go to school. But, that's 00:54:00how I got out. A lot of these parties at night too. The Japanese that were doing business was, it sounds great: party every night, party.

EU: I am going to stop here for a minute.

EU: You mentioned going golfing, could you talk a little bit about the work you did? You said you were a liaison?

DT: Yeah, you want me to lay out the job as a liaison?

EU: You were a liaison between the American military and the Japanese --

DT: The Japanese agencies, yes. Because in those days, the Tokyo office was very busy, because, uh, this was during the Vietnam War. So, communist China was also 00:55:00a big US enemy too. And the Soviet Union was, of course, the biggest US enemy. And all three surrounded us, and the Tokyo office had the coverage of all of those places, and we had to, you know, cover those areas so it was-- So the liaison was the overt function like we do, but the main was, of course, collecting intelligence. But we do that a lot through the Japanese agencies, because they're after the same thing too. That's why you cooperate with them to work together. I suppose that I can't discuss the specific thing with you.

EU: You actually did go over to Vietnam then? You said--

DT: Yes, I went for one year, because, what they needed was, they sent me back 00:56:00to Fort Benning, Georgia, we had a unit there, because, at that time it was hush-hush, you know, but the, I can't even think of it, 25th division, the Lightning Division, I don't know military, but it was stationed down there and they were going to be sent over to Vietnam. But, it was supposed to have been a real hush-hush thing; because they don't want the public to know which units are coming and leaving. They were building up the US forces in Vietnam and so they needed experienced people to go along with them, and especially because the intelligence detachment that were assigned to these units that were going over 00:57:00to Vietnam, every single one of them were just out of that R.O.T.C and wanted to take the training in intelligence, but had no experience whatsoever. So, my assignment was, we had to go by boat, I couldn't go by plane, although some of them could, by boat because then, I think that is was only about 15 or 20 day trip, long trip, because from South Carolina, you go around Panama Canal, and up through California, across-- So it equals a lot. But, we had to have daily training sessions in our cabins, so we used to get in them and train them down there and whatnot. So, I ended up there for one year. The tour was one year.

EU: This was in the 1960s? In there?

DT: It was in the 1960s. I think about 1965, 66. The date is about then. That's 00:58:00why I have this thing. See, I'm not going to pull them out here anyway. I have many, many of this kind of award because of what I did.

EU: What kind of awards?

DT: Well, the folders are all in there. I don't know which one this is, because if I did it would say here.

EU: David is looking at photocopies of awards and citations and papers that list what he did.

DT: This one would be like Korea. When that one year I had to go to Korea when I 00:59:00was first serving with intelligence.

EU: The Meritorious Service medal.

DT: The Meritorious Service medal, umm hmm.

EU: In the Republic of Korea during the period following July, 1971 through July, 1972.

DT: Yes, and I was they called the Special Operations Section Chief there. Kind of like this special military operation that means it's an intelligence operation. Because, I guess, the long experience, you know, just the need for this and the need for that for that particular project. And this is how I came to Eugene, Oregon. I was the Commander, or Special Agent in Charge, in the Eugene office.

EU: When you were --

DT: When I was at the Tokyo Field Office --

EU: The Tokyo Field Office.

DT: The citation says Special Agent in Charge.

EU: So, this was in 1966-1969.

DT: Uh-huh, and that's how I got out here. Because, my daughter and son were already in high school and they didn't what to move no more in case I got out.

EU: When you went to, um, like, this training in Fort Benning or when you went to Vietnam, where was Jean then? Was she still in Tokyo or in --

DT: No, when I was in Vietnam, they were in Los Angeles.

EU: Oh, Los Angeles, so when did you leave Japan then?

DT: '69, I thought. This is the '69 award. Yeah, '69, it says July '66- '69. I was the Special Agent in Charge of the Tokyo Field Office when we left. Since we were there about seventeen year, they asked me, I had a friend who was in the Pentagon, and he asked me, 'Where would you like to be assigned? Since you have been there that long and we didn't send you home, we'll give you the field office of your choice.' And I told him.

He said, 'Do you want to go to Los Angeles?' No, because there is a lot of Japanese there. 'San Francisco?' No. 'Seattle?' No. I said, 'Send me to some small, out of the way office.' Then he said, 'How about Eugene, Oregon?' I said, 'Where is that?' So they sent me to the Eugene office because of that. [Unintelligible mumbling].

But this, this one is something. This thing is-- I have, it says 'Tokyo Office,' 01:02:00from when I was there.

EU: It's in, its dedication is written in Tanji, in Japanese.

DT: Yes. This is from the Superintendent gentleman from the police agency. This was something happening, real funny then. This is my office. The Tokyo office, when I was getting one of these awards and things. This is some of my office staff, not all of them.

EU: These are photographs taken in the --

DT: This is the Superintendents office when he awarded me this scroll.

EU: With a bottle of Sake on the shelf --

DT: This isn't my office. This is a different thing. This one here is when he gave this Japanese thing. This is, uh, the Superintendent General there. Yeah, 01:03:00this guy here, this is the Superintendent. He gave me this. This is a copy of a scroll, and with this I got -- I have a sake cup, a gold one, with the emperor's seal in there. And it says, 'if you win this award, you got this cup.' And then they give you this cup with a gold seal on it; the emperor's seal. What is still funnier is his administrative assistant came into my office and said, 'Superintendent Johns (??) wants to see you at ten o'clock tomorrow, can you make it?'

I said, 'The Superintendent wants to see me, can I make it? Of course I can make it.' I said, 'I'll be over there a quarter to ten.' He said 'No, no, no.' He said, 'You stay in the office, because I'll come over and we'll go together.' I said, 'Okay.'

So he came about a quarter to ten, he came and said -- And from our office, the Tokyo Field Office we had, it was about a block and a half, two blocks. We got a 01:04:00small house, a couple houses, and the agents live there. So, we took one of the houses there as an office. So, we walked to the agency, it was real close by, about two blocks down, but he said, ' No, let's drive.' Then he said, 'Come, come.' And we went to the parking lot by my office, it's a house in there, but otherwise (??). And we go there, and there is a sedan there, two motorcycle cops in the front, two motorcycle cops in the back. I said, 'What is this?' He said, 'Never mind, this is the Superintendent's car. He told me I got to pick you up, so you got to go in there. It's not me, you're going to upset him if you don't go in there.' So I go in the back, and he was in the front, and the cops go with the siren on. They start going out of the camp, and right outside of the camp, these two motorcycles stop right in the middle of traffic, they zoomed down there, and then there was a huge intersection. They had four cops posted, stopping all traffic, and these cops just go right through. Then we go to the Headquarters building. It was a five, six story building there. The front has a 01:05:00big patio, a lawn, almost like that moss plaza, or whatever it is, in front of the Carnegie building, around the corner, but it's a bigger one. It's huge.

So, the cop pulled up there, and then we got out of the car. Then he said, 'You got to go troop de line.' "What do you mean troop de line,' I said. He said, 'They got all the police line up. They say you have to walk on in. It's a fashion type thing.' I say, 'You must be kidding me.' He said, 'No, you have to, that's why they are there.' So, I have to go troop de line, and I did that. But I don't have a single, like I kept telling the guy and his assistant, you know, I don't have a single photo over the greatest honor I've ever had in my life, because they told me an ambassador and higher rank would get that, the motorcycle escort and would get to stop all traffic. Ambassador, he said, was only when they go to present their credentials, when they first come in. The 01:06:00rest, you have to be Head-of-State to get that.

EU: Yeah, and they gave you that. When did you realize that you were getting an award, then? Or did you know that with this motorcade?

DT: Yeah, when I had that figured, some kind of award. They gave me this thing here. And this one does state, in Japanese, uh, 'Zianichi Nihung is, in Japan, in Tokyo, the 74th military intelligence unit commander.' I got my name there. So, they gave me a nice send-off

EU: What a nice send-off. So, uh --

DT: That's how I got to Eugene, Oregon.

EU: That's how you got to Eugene, okay. How many children did you have then?

DT: Two.

EU: Two?

DT: My one daughter, Kathy, she's, you mustn't document Kensu Adonai (??), she's 01:07:00married to Tim Cunningham. Kathy works for Springfield, and she's the court supervisor there, in Springfield. And her two daughters -- The one that just called from New York, she's finishing her graduate schooling there. She's married. She got married to a person in New York. They met at Pacific University together.

EU: And what's her name?

DT: Trisha, uh, Trisha Koslaff. K-O-S-L-A-F-F. And her twin sister, Jennifer, is still here. She's been working as a veterinary technician for one of the veterinary hospitals and going to school at night at, uh, what's the on there, is that Willamette, the Christian college?

EU: The Northwest Christian College?

DT: The Northwest, the Northwest Christian College, right?

EU: Yeah, by the University.

DT: Oh yeah, yeah. Northwest Christian College. And she is not pursuing the -- She wanted to be a veterinary technician, but, I guess, she is not. She switched to hotel administration. But the hotel administration, from what I understand, it's just that, it can be either veterinary hospital, hospital, medical hospital, or regular hospital-hospital administration. This administration is the same thing. That's the two of them--

EU: So, you had two twin--

DT: Grandchildren? Granddaughters, yes.

EU: And then you said Katherine was your daughter?

DT: One daughter. And my son is in Salem. He's been with Sears for almost thirty years, I think.

EU: And what is his name?

DT: His name? Mark Toyama, and his wife is Sue. She's Caucasian, like you. Anyway, she's-- He's been with them for just about thirty years, I think, a long time. And he's the, last I know this, Assistant General Manager of that shop over there, that store. They very seldom come down here too, because, he says, in that kind of retail trade, you know, for example, Thanksgiving is one busy day where people search for everything for Christmas, their decorations and everything. And Christmas, of course, there is no way you can take that off. So when they come down for Christmas, like they usually do, its late January or February or whatever it is, when it's still down a little bit.

EU: So, you have been in Eugene ever since then?

DT: Us? Yeah, since '69. So, that would be [mumbles numbers] thirty-seven years or something like that.

EU: How long did you continue working in M.I.S. then, here in Eugene?

DT: In military intelligence, in Eugene? Let me see, I came here in '69, and I think 1970, that started the Korea one (??). Then in '70, '71, they needed 01:11:00somebody to be the Operations Officer for this special operations, they called that, intelligence, kind of a side operation they called it, but anyway, so, they tell me I'm going to have to go to Korea. So, this is only one year, from '69 to '70, I went back to Korea, and that was a one year tour. After that, this, he didn't made captain yet, but this lieutenant replace me, and he was here only one year, because I stayed a one year tour there. So, they didn't need two over here, so they said, 'Sorry, now you're going have to-- You can't come back to Eugene now, because this guy who replaced you is there.'

I think that he just made captain, but anyway they gave me Missoula, Montana, this little office. But I tried to get my son to come over there, but they didn't want to go. And I told them, 'You ought to see the housing that I got,' because they had Camp Missoula there, an old camp, but there was no units over there. So, in the military rules, you know how the generals rule, and there is about five or six big houses there, and there is field grade officers in all like them, that kind of housing. But since there were no agencies, if you were the head of any kind of agency, you get one of the houses. So I got one of the 01:12:00houses. It was one of the benefits of the commander there. And it's one of those colonial houses, with a big, what do you call there, a veranda, right, railing around the house. And it's two-stories, a basement, and in the back, the front is a garage back by the stable--

EU: For the horses?

DT: Back where the cabin used to be, the stable. But, can you believe I would commute from Missoula, Montana to over here. But, you know, our agency was, maybe I shouldn't say that, make an excuse to go to the Spokane Field Office, and one of the guys in the office would drop me off in Spokane. In Spokane, I would call them in advance, and they would say, 'Yeah, we got this one going down to Yemaquilla (??),' or what is it across the river? Like a Pony Express, because the Yemaquilla (??) office had business in Portland. Then I would catch 01:13:00a bus, and come down to Eugene.

You know, we have no real officer watching us do our work. If you take care of the cases, and have nothing to do, you can just take off. Even in the Eugene office, we had about six agents here. They check in the morning, and I look in my mail, and if there's two cases in there, two guys get assigned and the rest of them go home and come back tomorrow. It's a see what's in the mail type thing. I think by now they've reduced the size of the force, I don't know. They didn't need that many people.

EU: So, your son and daughter, your family, wanted to continue living in Eugene?

DT: Yes. They didn't want to go, so they didn't move to Missoula, Montana. That's when I used all my friends in the Pentagon, and said 'Get me back here!' 01:14:00They worked it so, I was supposed to go to Seattle, they had a spot, an opening, for me, and the person that was in charge of the Portland Field Office wanted to move to Seattle, so they switched us. So, I went to Portland and, but you know two hours commute back and forth, and I had to leave at eight o'clock. You know, it was still a hassle, so I asked them to carve out some of the counties that's close to Eugene, about three of them. Like Marion County and Lane County and Multnomah, I think. So, I got my own field office in one of the National Guard Offices there. When I got out in '74, there was one, finally. It took five years.

EU: So you got out in '74?

DT: 1974. I retired then.

EU: And you went to work for the tax service here in Eugene?

DT: Lane County.

EU: Oh, in Lane County.

DT: Sessman (??) taxation, they, uh-- At first, because I had an office no matter where I went, you know, I was in charge of an office, I wanted to get outside and work. So I found out that you can be an appraiser if you pass, eh, go to the state and take the exam. And I passed the appraisal exam, so I became a certified appraiser.

And I applied for the Conifer (??) job, and I got that job, but they looked at my résumé and they determined, 'Oh, you got to take over this office and then take over this office section.' And so I got put back in the office again.

I had, first, an appraisal section, then, like I tell people, the nicest guy in Lane County because I was a tax collector. But, honestly, I did, I told them, 01:16:00'Okay,' because the tax collector quit. She was there for many years, Joyce Lane, but what happened was 4J sued the county two million dollars in lost interest. Because everybody up here pays their property taxes on November fifteenth, right? And you have to distribute all that money that you collect for the schools and whatnot, you know, that have their budgets, and 4J realized that getting the money in late January, that two month's lost interest, and in their budget is hundreds of millions a year. So they made two million. It wasn't only Lane County, a lot of the assessors got together and went to the legislature, and the legislature excused the counties from bank liability, but they said, 'From here after, you must distribute that money in one month's time. If you 01:17:00don't do that, you pay interest.' You know, the regular way. So this lady, Joyce, said, 'There's no way, I only have twenty-five people in this section. You go to give me about thirty-five people, maybe then I can do it in one month. They said, 'We don't have the money to get that many people more.' So she quite, she resigned. And they asked me whether I would go and try to do that, you know, and since I retired once, I didn't care, I can retire again.

I said, 'Well, I'll go, provided you change the title from tax collector there to taxation section manager.' I said, 'I know English history and I don't want Robin Hood to come shoot me.' Which he did, but the joke was on me, because when I finally went in there, they told me, 'Okay, now you got to go see the Sheriff.' 'What do I have to go see the Sheriff for?' 'You have to be deputized.' A tax collector, in Oregon law, I didn't know, is a Sheriff. So, this is from an old English custom.

And so we used to go to these tax collectors conventions, and all these small 01:18:00counties on the east, they're sheriffs.

EU: They're all sheriffs, huh?

DT: The tax collectors there, he wears two hats. The big counties, of course, you can't do that, you know, the Sheriff is too busy too and so that's it. But I still got that I.D. card now. So, of course, when I finished that section, and we got it to process, I changed the whole system of processing within one month, see. Then they asked me if I wanted to reorganize another section, property records. I said, 'Okay, I will go over there.' And then the -- I had to turn in my badge and credentials to the Sheriff. So, and then, I forget his name, I knew him, and he said, 'I got to take that badge back from you,' that's one of the things that he said. "But the I.D. card,' he said 'you can keep that, but don't you ever pull that if you get stopped.' He said, 'I', not going to help you.' 'You keep that as a souvenir,' He said.

EU: So, how long did you work then for the tax service?

DT: Fifteen years.

EU: Fifteen years.

DT: And you know, I think I got a copy of the length of time. Yeah, I retired in 1989, it says. So that's quite some time ago. This, after I retired, well, let me back track. Before I retired, what I did at Lane County is, uh, we were, every section was, way back, about six month behind. So, we used to have a lot of trouble with tax-payers, and you can't blame them because they would call-in and they got their tax statement due November fifteenth and they get it, say, in February or March and they got a penalty on interest attached. And they would come in yelling and screaming when I was a tax-collector there. They come in screaming and I would say sorry and show them the Oregon ORS, it says that if 01:20:00you have property you should know that there is taxes and you should inquire if you didn't get the bill. You know, if it's lost in the mail, it's your fault. Of course they would get as mad as heck, everybody would get really mad because you tell them that, but it used to be that way. So, uh, also when I was the manager of one of the sections that was close to the tax assistance counter and I could hear people yelling and screaming that, 'I had to wait forty-five minutes in this line, and now you are going to tell me that I have to wait in this other line down there.' You know with thing, they were right and something was wrong, so I said, 'What we should do is try to correct all this.' And I said, 'In Japan, they have a system that they call the QC circle, the quality control circle.' And I said, 'I'm not trying to talk about how the system is good or perfect, because the QC circle was made by a guy named Dennan. He's an American. 01:21:00He's a mathematician. --That started that.

I must have that article; I wouldn't throw that kind of article away. Yeah, see. In the article, that guy is this guy. And he went to Japan, because he said that, in Detroit, no one would listen to him. They would say he's crazy. Quality control, a mathematician trying to teach them quality control. And he found out in Japan that all the workers, no matter which factory, in the morning they go half-an-hour early to work and they drink coffee or tea together, they chat and talk to each other. It was a proper situation for them to do that. So he used that circle and called a QC circle. The Japanese, what's a QC circle, they don't know, but he had his quality control. And what he would do is: the workers would decide what was wrong or what could be improved in there particular areas in the production line. And that's why this person is right, the US better watch out. 01:22:00And this is '84.

EU: 1984, yeah.

DT: Look at them now. Here in the auto industry, Toyota is overtaking even General Motors. Ford and Chrysler is in bad shape. It's all this guy that did that.

EU: Edward Stanley.

DT: Yep.

EU: So, you instituted that in the Eugene office?

DT: Over here at the Lane County, I told them, 'Why don't we try that?' And then I said, 'Well, the QC circle, some might know that as Japanese, you know, if they have been to Japan. They may not like it because we're trying to institute a Japanese system over here.' So, I said, 'Let's just call it the user circle.' And we did it, and I told them, 'Okay, I'll do it, but now you tell each one of the section managers that when we have that meeting, they can't send this guy, the person that's supposed to be in the meeting, representing from each section, to be at the meeting to discuss. And so the assessor dictated at one of the 01:23:00managers' meetings that, you know, that date, no matter what they are doing, you must release them to that meeting, because it is more important to try to fix the whole system. And the system was hurting because there was no communication between the sections. I couldn't believe that, but I used to have one section, this lady, manager come and tell me, 'Could you go and talk to this other--' in the same department and section. And I said, 'Why?' 'Why don't you go through with this,' I said. I called her, she won't answer my phone, and she won't return my calls. I leave a not on her desk, you know, 'Please call me,' and she won't do that. Total disregard of me. The two won't talk to each other.

And the truth is, it's a simple thing, and the funniest thing came out there.

Now when I counted his money and income tax, sometimes I feel like writing some of these things in. There's a lot of money they could save that actually they're not doing. Because there is this one section, where they do the vouchers -- 01:24:00Well, very quickly, if a person has to appraise something, they come down and your house is worth this much or whatever it is. Then this section here will say, 'change this, change this' or whatever changes are needed. They ship this to the, what do you call it, the data entrance section. They also type in all these changes through a computer, and all this stuff goes through like that. But one of the gals in this section, that was preparing vouchers, and this one was typing in the changes, when I said, we'll just use a fictitious name, Nancy. I said, 'Why are all your boxes different than all the other, you know, legacy (??) in your section?' 'What do you mean it's different,' she said. 'You have marked every single box, but three or four boxes there. Name, address, you have marked every single box; the others only put the changes. So, we just go to the page in the computer and we make the change. On yours, we got to look at every 01:25:00single page and see if it's the same information and see if you're making changes.' And she got mad as heck, and said, 'You mean you had me doing this all these years, extra work and not telling me I did.' I said they are forbidden from talking to each other in all these sections. It's amazing.

None of the changes, because the manager in this section didn't like this manager over here, so I asked the one working over here, 'Why are the vouchers, they claimed to have sent these things in two months ago, and it's still not on the computer, why?'

She said, 'The vouchers are stacked in her office.' I said, 'You mean the vouchers are stacked in her office, the manager's office?' And I said, 'Why don't you guys go in there and ask her if you can do that to them.' They said, 'If you walked into her office, you've had it.' They couldn't, she was that strict. But it turned out, what it was, is that she was looking for errors, so 01:26:00that she could get at that other manager there. Because when finally I went and talked to her, I said, 'You know, it seems that these vouchers are holding up the whole system, the tax system is going up late and stuff. Joyce, why do you have to do that?' Then she said, 'Well, there's this one box.' And I said, 'You can't change that box anymore.' She continued to do that, so I went back and said, 'Several months ago, we were told that we don't do that anymore. She's checking for that one thing, to see if they're still doing that thing. But once you start adding that one thing, you can't get caught up, and she did that. But that's-- I think that quality control did that.

So after I was rehired, in '89, that's a common one, they said, 'Can you attend our department meetings?' So, I did. Each section would update the other sections on what they're doing and problems on that type of thing. Now after 01:27:00that ended, he said, 'I want the David Toyama Award.' I said, 'What the hell is he talking about?' And they got a plaque there, and it belongs to the Alsinean (??) employee of the year. After the meeting, I went up to his office, and I said, 'What is this thing?' And so he had a big plaque up on the tax payer assistance counter. With the plaque, each year's winner goes on a small one along side. So, I said, 'I'm going to sue you and the county for using my name with without my permission. How can you being giving it away when I don't have it?' He called his secretary and he said-- He whispered, he gave her a note, and the secretary came back. And he told that secretary, the note said, 'Make a photocopy of the plaque.' He said, 'Here's your certificate.'

EU: So you never actually got the award?

DT: Well, I did.

EU: Oh, you did then.

DT: Isn't it nice. After fifteen years, I told him that it's about time that he stopped that. I mean how can he select the outstanding employee because the tax assistance counter has got plywoods, it's all blocked off. It's so much more than 'push number two if you want this or push number three if you want this.' And I said, 'It doesn't make sense.' And he said, 'Are you sure you don't mind?' and I said, 'No.' And he said, 'Okay, this year is the last time. I want the last one here and then after that--' I made it to the presentation of the 'Employee of the Year Award,' then he called me up and he gave me one.

EU: Well, David has-- I'll read the award here into the --

DT: Huh?

EU: I'll read it into the -- It say, 'David Toyama Award for excellence in 01:29:00public service: a demonstration of serving the public through positive public image and pride through workmanship, trust, respect, and support of others, active participation in shared leadership with management, responsibility and accountability, open communication, individual development and training, reevaluation of methods and systems' That's David's award in 1989. Oh, and there's the original, huh?

DT: It started then, every year, to the employee of the year. And the one thing that I was stressing to all the sections, when we used to have these meetings, we used to come up with a mission statement. What's the purpose, what do you want? And I told them, 'If you want sand on Laguna Beach, put that. Put whatever you want. If you want long coffee hours, put that.' And do you know what the biggest one that came out is, we selected, is this line here: 'trust and the 01:30:00support of others.' It was amazing. So they said that 204 (??) was the last year, fifteen (??), but after I presented this one to them, the assessor presented this one to me. He changed the wording a little bit, because for management type things too, but it kept all the other things the same. Anyway, that's Lane County.

EU: Okay, let's take a break here again.

DT: Okay.

EU: This is part 4 of the interview with David Toyama. David let's start talking about your activities within the Japanese community here in Eugene. I know that 01:31:00you have been active in founding some of these organizations. You said we should start with the Asian council.

DT: The Asian council. That was the first time I got involved with them it was 1989 probably when I retired. That's when I thought I could become more active in this type of thing. But, the Asian Celebration was going on about two years, two-three years before I become really active in this type of thing. When I retired they asked me if I can, as I mentioned, that the thing was a council and so the Japanese group was just a social group and mostly we just get together 01:32:00for a potluck; that was about it.

EU: What was the name of that group? Was that the Japanese American Association?

DT: No, it wasn't even an association it was just a Japanese group. Just a get together because we did start the Bon (Odori) dance before we organized that association the one; but, I guess we get to that when we get to the JAA portion. This one here, that was in '89 and they asked me, the Japanese group asked me to be the representative for that year because two from each group would go and form the council.

EU: Two from each?

DT: Ethnic group, Chinese group, Korean, Japanese, Indonesians, that type. But then, when I went and became the president of that I found that it was not functioning. It was difficult to get the representatives to come. So the meetings were all the same people and the others wouldn't show up and when I go and talk to them and they would say "Ok, they will find a representative from 01:33:00their group." That person would come one meeting and the next meeting you don't see them again. So I proposed that the group, we had a group who was almost like directors, and like Ken Nagao and Bern Hall was the main one then and Hasa Lee (sp?). But, I said "we should revise this council into a membership organization." And the council was formed mainly as a business league because this person, Bern Hall, wanted an Asian Chamber of Commerce. 2 That's what the group was formed as initially and the first celebration was done to raise funds to publish that business directory. So it didn't switch over completely into what it turned out to be: a cultural pride thing. In any case I told them that 01:34:00it wasn't working right because you can't get people to come out. If you make a membership, then it would be a formal organization and then you get your chairmen and secretary officially and it would function more effectively. They finally said "Okay," so I had to rewrite the articles of incorporation and bylaws and resubmit the paper work and things. I remember when I submitted to the, what do you call the--?

EU: Attorney General?

DT: Attorney General. You have register there with a corporation board and attorney general, internal revenue, and all these places. That office wrote back they would penalize us ten dollars a day since that first whatever year it was 01:35:00for two years three years because we failed to notify them to register, we were violating the law. So, I wrote back and I told them well "Firstly, we have nothing but volunteers. It was just kind of a council type of thing not a formal organization. That's one reason that we missed out on doing that and I said, "besides if we have to pay that then you wiped this organization out completely," which is true because we had no money. So then they excused us and we didn't have to do that. But then we registered with them to and all of that and they gave us membership and then I think it turned out much, much better too. The Asian Council did.

EU: How long did you continue serving with them?

DT: I think I was present for about three years. And then one year we stopped 01:36:00talking about the culture center, you know an Asian culture center, where the kids can practice their Taiko, their Chinese line dance. I used to go to the dancing party when I was the president of the consul to there the two group gatherings like potlucks and Christmas party. I remember the kids get out there and play the "bamboo dance." It was real neat they had the jumping and they just keep clapping and the timing. So I told Angie Dean, the one that was really active with them, I told her "you should get them on the stage," and then they did one in a few years. But, someplace where they couldn't even practice stuff like that these cultural things. To do Asian culture and they had some good ideas.

So I said I will go to the library and there was no computer then, at least I 01:37:00didn't know what a computer was and the internet and what not. But, I searched through all these directories and what not and I wrote to, I don't know maybe 20 organizations, foundations and big corporations and what not for grants. Almost everyone was nice enough to respond and says "here is the application and turn this in the annual determination is in March or February," and so you got to turn it in before January 31st or something. Every single one I read in there the application says, "are you a 501(c)(3) organization?" I didn't know what a (c)(3) was. "If so attach a copy of the certification from the IRS." And that's when I went to the IRS and I got the information and I looked at the thing and we were 501(c)(4). Which is a non-profit organization; but, the 501(c)(3) is a 01:38:00non-profit also but, people making donation to a (c)(3) can write it off on taxes, as a donation. Like you can donate to a church or a lot of this stuff coming and asking for 3 money. So I told the group that if we want to we have to organize a sister organization that can be a 501 (c)(3) charitable organization. Then we can ask for grants and this thing here. Then so nobody wanted to do the paperwork so they told ok you do it so I said Aito (sp?) is the president and I will the vice president and go and work on this paper work for the foundation. We got all the paperwork done then turned it in. Then we got recognition as the foundation our mission we to make scholarship grants for kids.

EU: Now this is now the Asian Foundation?

DT: Right. The scholarship grants we made it so unlike all the scholarships like (?) is only for their own people. You know, "I said that's not right, it's our community and we're all kind of mixed, so why don't we make it so that anybody can no matter who that helps us and participates in our Asian Celebration, like the Bon (Odori) dance, and cultural activities." That how it started off to do that and encourage them to continue their cultural activities by making these small scholarship grants, $500 whatever it be and before the end of the year. Because we not going to be active for all intents, whose going to do it? You got to get these young people interested in doing that. The scholarship we started 01:40:00off with that and the cultural center was a long range plan. Just recently we revived the efforts. This person Jason Mack (sp?) is, a works for the city -- making a cultural something.

EU: Cultural Diversity?

DT: Yeah. He is going to work on get grants like I was trying way back when. So perhaps we can get started again doing that. Ken has a friends that.

EU: Ken Nagao?

DT: Yeah. Has a friend that's willing to donate land but that cultural center would have to be to be slightly different purposed since he said it was close-by but it is uh [sniff] 20 minutes [mumbling] you can't get there it is a good half an hour drive in the county towards, uh, what pass what do they call that pass?

EU: McKenzie Pass?

DT: High pass, low pass? It's like going to the coast like Jackman City (sp?)? Right? I forget what, but it is quite a ways out but he says it is not that far but who is going to haul the Taiko kids and the line dance kids out there every Monday, Tuesday, Thursday whenever their practice is? It's is going to be a logistics problem for the kids, hauling the kids. That is fine if we want a museum or something like that but we should have one for the original purpose so that the kids can practice and get together and things like that. So they finally decided that Jason Mack would try for grants, for something that was here.

EU: Have that cultural center here in Eugene? Was?

DT: Yeah right, was so much more accessible [mumbling]. So that is what this 01:42:00foundation is working on. The scholarship program is going, we got organized in 1993. I think I got the registration completed and but I was the president for about 5 years and towards the end, I told them it's not right, a person shouldn't be president that long and the officers change and get new ideas and what not. So I asked the board members to make suggestions and only one gave me a written, Don Moon Lee. I don't know if you know Don, but Don Moon Lee was a chairman of the Oregon Community Credit Union. For about 10 years, long time and he was at the University of Oregon. I remembered when he retired that the university ordered him because he was working for how many years, I don't know, 01:43:00in different positions. But they named that one lane by 28th Ave? I think and just past University Ave. They named it Don Moon Lee Lane.

EU: Oh okay.

DT: Pretty good honor for a university too. Anyway he summated a suggestion that said some organizations have "up and out - one year." The vice president moves up to the president, and the president moves up to the advisorable chairman or whatever you call it; then up and out. I put that in the policies and procedures and then had the Board adopt that. So the following year, ok now that year, person to change, so I'm out and someone moves up. So we moved up the step type of thing.

EU: So was the Asian council or the Asian foundation?

DT: foundation. The council I left because of the they we couldn't get the council grant with the council.

EU: Okay, so then you formed the foundation. Are you still active with the foundation?

DT: Not really. I'm supposed to be an advisor. So I wanted to retire from that. I mean that's how many years? 15,17 years. But after '93 we finally got it organized, but on the onset especially scholarship grants and things like that still a lot of work to be done, policy and procedures and how we going to raise 01:45:00money? [mumble] There was going to be an auction. I had a good friend that was here in 1990 I think to 1993 for about 3 or 4 years as an exchange professor at the UO. He's two daughters that where in the Waka Daiko, the kids Taiko, with my twin granddaughters. They were all about ten years old or something at the time. He likes to drink beer too so my wife used to go to Taiko practice and we would sit around drinking beer so we became very good friends. Anyways. So when he left he attended our first auction to raise money at the Valley River one of the big halls or something. He brought a table full, a table full of 8 people from the university so he saw the auction and what we were doing and I introduced all the board members. I told him the first board members I really did that to, to 01:46:00make sure we had as much representation as we can at the different ethnic organizations. So I introduced each one of the board members to the group, he represents the Indonesian community. I remember I still had fun because I didn't know whether you know "Rusty" George Mayer? He is an architect, a designer anyways. "Rusty" Mayer. We have one minority representative [laughs] yeah old George. So anyway the foundation started going okay.

And this (someone's name?) has been getting his friends together, this group and supporting the auction here for a long time since '94 to about last year '96 for 01:47:00about 12 years and they don't send cheap things. You look at the ladies the Esei Ladies (sp?) like Joy Smith Sulliavan, Joyce, Yoki, Macdonald (sp?) they know that in Japan those things would cost a thousand dollars or more for a real kimono but they been sending that kind of thing for years now. Finally Kaniamo's (sp?) daughter have been here for about two summers for her certification and stayed with us. So one year we are talking and she said "how long are you going to have the auction going?" I said "Why?" She said "I heard my mother and father having a kind of discussion about obi." I can see each year is more expensive 01:48:00with gold thread. She said "my mother thought we shouldn't give it away but keep it for the two daughters." Father said "the kids will never use that thing here so why are we keeping that thing just give it away [mumble]" I just wrote the them and thanked them. I send thanks to all the people I know on the list every year. Cause their generous which is true, we raised sufficient funds now that we can make a scholarship grant through interest which is what we are doing. If we have a special occasion I will contact them again. That's what I told them so they won't have that squabble later. But that is true that it is primarily their donation that got us all that money that allowed us to have a 400-500 dollar 01:49:00scholarship grant. It is not big but it is good encouragement for the kids. So that is the foundation. The only one left is the JAA?

EU: Yeah the JAA or the Asian Celebration? Where you involved with the founding of the Asian Celebration?

DT: The Asian Celebration is sponsored by the Asian Council. So we are involved with them when I was president after that too, until recently. After that I provide information, staff the booth and stuff like that. The Asian Council and Asian Foundation is the same members, basically the same group in there. So majority is the JAA group.

EU: Did you help found then the JAA? When did that--

DT: The JAA in 1994 I did make all the organizational paperwork again like the IRS and getting the thing approved. But once you get money it is easier. I know the first time did with the foundation one or two, I forgot his name, I said you know I would like somebody to have an attorney to take a look at this I don't know what they are going to charge but because I am not sure what I am doing right. The Articles of Incorporation, the Bylaws and all those things. I have some experience with some of those thing because my last job in (location?) when I was a property records manager one of my jobs was to review and make approval 01:51:00for property exemptions for charitable organizations 501(c)(3). So know what a 501(c)(3) [mumble] it has to be that when you dissolve then that fund has to go to another 501(c)(3) or another government agency type, stuff like that. I would like to get it off in the right way.

So this attorney says I will look it over, the paperwork. He said, "You know what, I am sorry but you know what I talked to my friend he says I just can't do it he says because at least three times IRS is going to bounce it. It will take too much of my time. I can't do it." I tell him "thank you anyways." And I tried and sure enough the first time they bounced it. So when they bounced that, the 01:52:00funny thing is, they had this case control officer handling our case. I tried to call them because I got the name and they let me talk to him and it was a Chinese guy. So I talked to him you know I know you bounced it but can you give me a little help because we are only volunteers and we have no attorney on the staff or what not. And we are trying to do as indicated it is a charitable organization trying to make scholarship grants. He says "Well I tell you the reason this won't pass is that you have the Asian Celebration activities in this organization." So where going to move the celebration under this foundation but he says is "what they want to know is do any of your members have booths in that celebration?" So then it becomes like a scam, an inside charity, they making 01:53:00money he explained that to me. Sure enough we do have some that do their own. I said we have organizations that do it for food booth. He says "that is okay but individuals?" I know we had, so we deleted that and next time it went through no problem. So that took care of that and the JAA in 1994. I ask because we had this informal steering committee for the goodbye Dan (?) you know.

EU: Who was on that committee?

DT: I have the list someplace. It was, let me see, Misa Joe (sp?), Ken Nagao, Mary Mori, myself, and Saiko (sp?)About six of us on the steering committee. And 01:54:00we didn't have no regular organization because I remember two of you got to be the officers and because we had $200 to open the account for the organization. Mary and I had to be that. Mary said I should open that account because she had an office real close by.

EU: That is Mary Mori?

DT: Yes Mary Mori. She called me and said David you got to go sign that contract, they need two signature card, I went there as she said leave a space there for president. I said to the guy at the bank I'm not the president. She had signed under secretary treasure. The guy said that is okay, it is just a signature on the check. We had no officers really. We had the steering 01:55:00committee, but after I drafted everything I had the committee look it over to make sure they agreed. But it was standard, you know, simple, the only thing that it promoted Japanese American cultural activities like the Bon (Odori) dance and things of that nature. But the JAA otherwise was uhh--and the main thing too is in 199(?). The Bon (Odori) dance, 1990 it was started. The steering committee group was talking about the Bon (Odori) dance at that time; they were going to do the Bon (Odori) dance and the problem was. [Discussion of food and 01:56:00beverage -- hot plates]

DT: The reason why I did that too is we still had a steering committee but we used to have a meeting all the time and the planning and what not over here. Meanwhile the foundation was 7 going it was really too much and I thought, so that is when I suggested lets make a formal organization. They agreed so I wrote the thing again, as I say no one wanted to be the president. I said I can't because I am president of the foundation and I am just starting that organization. So I tried to talk Mary Mori into it and I told her you would be 01:57:00an excellent person to do that. Because we want to start of right and make sure we follow the bylaws. The bylaws are the guide of what the organization can and cannot do.

Since you are an attorney it would be perfect. She said no she's too busy. Third time I said "Mary, how about one year? Just get it off started." She said "okay but I may not be able to attend some meetings so you get me a good vice president. You know that person can do it." Then she says, "Okay I'll do it." So I was trying Howard Yamamoto to do that because Howard has been the manager for that employment agency for many years. In fact, I don't know what his title his, more than a manager because he had some sections he supervised more than managers do. Howard told me no he won't be the president. So I told him, if Mary 01:58:00be the president will you be the vice president? You are not going to run the meeting; beside we don't have that many meeting anyways. Very, very few in a year. So finally he says okay. That is how that got started, once you get those two, the rest is easy you get the secretary, the treasurer, and stuff. Then we worked again to get representatives for the board, and that is how the board got started. The JAA is one that is going real nicely.

EU: What are some of the activities? You said the Bon Odori?

DT: The Bon Odori is one, and the cooking classes, and stuff like that, more social activities. Cooking classes people want to learn different kinds of dishes and people like Saiko (sp?) used to be a? What did they do? Anyways, a 01:59:00nutritionist. We have an annual bowling tournament and an annual golf tournament, things of that nature, so the JAA is going real nicely. You know the Bon Odori is the biggest one and the other money maker was the celebration the food booth. The JAA has a food booth and the other one that also makes a lot of money is the one that Jean had the craft booth. She got about 8, 10 of the ladies to come every Tuesday: October, November, December and make craft items. This sort of thing has been going on since 1990, 1991 say it is about 15 years. 02:00:00So she finally said she can't continue and should get somebody else to handle that thing. And so--

EU: So the money that you raised, what do you do then? Do you give scholarships? For the JAA ?

DT: No for the JAA that is not what we proposed that at the foundation meeting. The foundation consists of all ethnic organizations and the JAA raises quite a bit of money now at the celebration and between. The craft ladies alone raised about $2,000 every year then the food booth makes about $3,000, $5,000 a year. The Bon (Odori) dance makes the money in front of food booths and things like that. So what the foundation is going to do is try to approach all the 02:01:00organizations and ask them to fund at least one scholarship under their name to be administered by the foundation so they don't have to worry about the paperwork and things like 8 that, the evaluation and things like that. So the last meeting of the foundation discussed that. That is what we should have done from the beginning but like I said everyone was just getting started so. So again the intent was the foundation and the Asian Council to get all the groups together. You know now a lot of the groups are very active separately, the JAA especially. To that extent the support the scholarship fund indirectly instead of being fully involved their own members that type of thing.

EU: So you're still active in the JAA?

DT: No.

EU: No?

DT: [laughs] I am still, after a couple of years ago, I handled most of the 02:02:00auction and that thing had two three hundred items. I got to make up the, what do you call them?, the evaluation sheets. I tried to organize that system by making donation slip, you know, a simple thing: name address, who donated, because you have to mail the thank you letters and things like that afterwards they donate that item, then a description of that item, and the value. Because that person because how many things I don't know the values so I have to find out the values of how many things. That takes a lot of time. Some like Don Lee, when he went to South East Asia he came in one night and had a whole bag there and he said, "Here I brought all this junk is for the auction." The bag is full 02:03:00of, what do you call those? tins, rings, cosmetic jewelry and that kind of stuff.

EU: So how could you put a value on that?

DT: I asked him what are these things? He said, "I have no idea, I just threw them in a bag and do whatever you want." I got to make the sheets out, donor want a sheet. This take a lot of time. This room was full with stacks and boxes of things - separate them into the four auctions shifts and things like that. Towards the end I said I have a group coming in, a potluck dinner, and then work on the pricing. I hate to do the pricing all by myself again. But the foundation 02:04:00is going okay now because the one thing we try to recruit and then one of the functions of the advisors like Ada Lee (sp?) former president and advisor. Ken is also a former president but I talked him to going back on the board because you need so old-timers too. Otherwise the direction completely lost by the new two. But at the same time I thought, we need to recruit new people otherwise everyone is going to retire and who is going to take over all this? Now we got a couple of young guys on the board too. Like Jason Mack (sp?) and David Tam (sp?). David Tam has got his hands full too he is the president of the council and president of the celebration, president of the Chinese organization. But the three organizations I think are going real good.

I did help, I don't think anyone knows, I did help them to organize the Chinese Group Kaba. Because the guy who was the actively handling that informally was Vern Whole (sp?), his sister Lan Whole (sp?) is in the foundation, Lanna (sp?). But Lanna doesn't know I helped her brother. Vern, I remember talking to him when he went to Hawaii and he said he needed to get an 9 operation and what hospital he was in. I called him and he says the doctor says he had cancer, I forgot what kind of caner, but doctor says "I got a year. I can handle it but that is all I know." After he came back we met once, I don't know what the 02:06:00function was, but Ada Lee (sp?) had something at her house and then she had us over and Vern was there. At that time Vern says "you know David the doctor tells me that now I have at most 6 months so I got a big favorer to ask." I said "what?" He knew that I organized the Council and the foundation. So he says "you know what has to be done to organize the Chinese organization. Before I go the one thing I want to form a legal organization." It was an informal organization too. So I says "well, now we got computer, it's easy." I wrote the bylaws on what do you call those? Floppies. I said "all you do is change when it says Japanese American put Chinese American." So I says very easy [laughs] He says it 02:07:00was good. So I got all the forms for him from the IRS and corporation commission and things like that. So we did that. Good karma. But anyway, I think we got three pretty good organizations everything is going real well. The celebration especially is real good.

EU: When I went to the dedication for the Eugene memorial, you stood up then with the others that where in the camp and the whole 42nd. Where you involved with that organization?

DT: The memorial?

EU: Yeah.

DT: Not over here. The thing is I was very active, unfortunately it was just about only me, but my friends in California they have a military retired 02:08:00officers association. All of them served in Japan because majority of them are Nisei like me and because of the language thing in the pacific they interrogated prisoners during the war and stuff like that. But when they did the national memorial after congress what happened is they petitioned one of them congress passed an Reparations Bill that gave each person $20,000 that was interned and also set aside a spot in that quadrangle in front of the capital building, the white house the big one where all the museums are in a choice spot did that and 02:09:00two presidents' made official apologies. So they raised money and Congress gave that thing but said you got to raise the money yourself so my friend was a president of that organization and we had very good friends still in Japan for many years almost 25 years over there, a long time. He asked me if I could do fund raising here. I said sure so he sent me all the brochures and things. So at the potluck meetings and what not I put down the brochures and I said what the thing is for and how people can help. But I guess people were not that much interested in New York because I had a difficult time the small amount of contributors do that so I had to contribute whatever I can to help out the thing too. Though we had one person here I won't mention their name but she made a very big contribution to. I think her father was in there too. Because of that 02:10:00those people that wanted to do that here by the time they did that, I had my friend in Oregon wrote to me and I agreed with them and I told that group over here. If they do that I will participate.

EU: David is going into the living room to get a book.

DT: I like what they did and I suggested they did that and I guess they didn't extend that to this. This thing that says "in good conscience." Actually the translation I don't agree with that but of course conscience with sincere 02:11:00gratitude like sincere thanks and what.

EU: The book that David is talking about is the title is in English is "In Good Conscience: supporting Japanese Americans during the internment" by Shizue Seigel

DT: Yes and this is all about--

EU: Oh, it says here "a the project of the military intelligence association of northern California."

DT: Correct. My friend what it is is he wrote me about this project and suggested we do the same: before the internment and after the internment they were many non-Japanese that had assisted the Japanese that had been interned and objected to that and helped them. And so they did a catalog of everyone they could find that did that and they published the thing here. So he said now "that 02:12:00we have a national memorial we should move forward instead of looking backwards, no go and find these people and thank them." So they published this book. He is the one that sent me the book.

EU: This book has been given you compliments of retired Colonel Harry K. Fukuhada (sp?).

DT: Mhm. It is all about those people that helped the Japanese, before and after. It is a real nice book and some are deceased but they said they don't care, they just want to find it and put it in and what they did was they published this together with the Modern California Educational Association or something like that. They funded this book for them anyways so they worked together with them and made a decent educational text book for the schools. To 02:13:00show that there was this Americans that helped; they see that it was wrong and they did nice things. Interesting book though. Anyway, there is nothing wrong with going to do this too because there was people that where sent from here.

EU: You mean the Eugene memorial?

DT: Eugene memorial. That made it nice to them and I know all of them too and I did mention that. But unfortunately I went along my military intelligence group. So we did the national. I did my share there. I did assist them in some ways to for Kenji's the carving in the stone and what not.

EU: Kenji Kobayashi (sp?)

DT: Yeah. He's for example, they wanted the flag the emblem for the unit. So I 02:14:00wrote to my friend and he sent me that and I gave it to Kenji. So that says I helped them too.

EU: Was it important for you to be recognized at the celebration for your service in the MIS?

DT: No. They ask me but I said [laughs] because it was the MIS only. They did ask me because the big donor here was that Indian tribe; the $50,000 for the project. And I meet one of them, Kenji in fact, at the Bon (Odori) dance told me this Indian guy he served in the military intelligence and then he says you have to come and talk to the group too. Because the Indians also had some in the encampments and I know they did because what they did is sometimes when the 02:15:00Japanese would intercept a field communication talking between intelligence people they were speaking in Japanese. The Japanese cut the line and they go in and talk to mislead the group. According to Harry what they sometimes do was Indian tapped in between and let the Indian speak so don't know what they were talking about. Playing games. This person apparently knew that too and told me. He asked me to please come and mention it. I said well you know I appreciate your invitation but I said the reason I don't want to go to the tribe, the tribal group gathering, because once you start asking money it becomes more then the military interrogation of prisoners. After they went to Japan after the occupation, after the war, these people all moved, like I was in counter 02:16:00intelligence and intelligence activities; my activities where primarily in counter intelligence and intelligence strategy. They ask me and I don't want to say no I can't talk about that. I say it would be awfully embarrassing because I don't know what I can talk about and to what extent.

So I said I think I better not. He said this is fine I understand. If it was a prisoner of war interrogation like I did in Korea that is fine but I didn't think I should. Because I know when we retired the one thing they warned us about was before we publish anything related to that kind of thing we make sure we get it cleared. There is thing that the government didn't want the public to know. But I talked to them. I loan this book to Misa (sp?) also, she wanted to 02:17:00read it. That is a second project that they could conduct here. I heard from these people, I don't know if it is in here, people borrowed it. The reason why the majority in Hawaii where never evacuated too is they said there was a Chinese guy. I have a friend named Chin (sp?) so I asked him of this guy named Chin there is rumor but they not sure. This Chinese business man was good friends with Eleanor Roosevelt was it Roosevelt? Yeah it was him. He was 02:18:00influential in convincing her that all the Japanese Americans in Hawaii where loyal Americans. She had a lot to do with that, sides like Alcatraz an island, it's an island anyways in the Pacific so you can't go anywhere anyways. They reasoned that okay, they say this guy really intervened. Chinese don't really like Japanese anyways he really went to bat for them. But they weren't unable to get that guy in there.

EU: So he was unable to make it into the book?

DT: No. Because they couldn't get verification of which Chin, there a lot of Chin's in Hawaii.

EU: Well

DT: This organization is really good. Where else do you find? I am from Hawaii which is supposed to be a so called melting pot. But the Japanese got their own function, Chinese have their own function, the Korean. They don't get together. I think it is only Eugene that all the 12 different ethnic groups get together and become personal friends. Like at Ada lee she took us to China. The first time we went to China I didn't want to go to China when it was the 50th anniversary celebration of Kombucha (sp?) 2000? I didn't want to go: I won't be able to get out of there [laughs]. So they finally convince me no but I go. She also took us to Hong Kong we are very close friends. It is real good, personal friends. She and her daughter Jean went up to New York when my granddaughter got 02:20:00married. It is real nice of them.

EU: So these friendships are an important part of the community and for you and Eugene?

DT: Yep. We got very good Korean friends Ken Yee (sp?) and Pilipino Angie, Indonesian Jokan (sp?). The organization I think is that one good thing it brought about is bringing the groups together, one happy family. The Ken will talk to you Monday but he won't remember.

EU: Ken Nagao?

DT: Ken Nagao. I know at the very beginning was just Ken and Irene, Jin (sp?) and me, and another couple that where school teachers. We always meet and talk 02:21:00about how we can get the group together, and the strange thing is the other couple they are still here but [laughs]. But we say "hi" when we seen then because we talk. So some of the first ones that mostly wanted to get the group together was Ken Nagao - at the beginning it was a small group to get together. What do we do? What made it difficult at the time was trying to find Japanese name in the telephone directories here. Majority of America is Caucasians [says 02:22:00various names]

EU: Okay. Well, is there anything else we should talk about in the interview? Anything else I have forgotten to ask you?

DT: hmmm, not really because these three organizations are the ones I was fortunate enough to be involved with and participate in their activities. I still do but not that active now. I guess it when your granddaughter is about 25 let them [laughs]

EU: Ok. David Thank you very much.

DT: Thank you

EU: I appreciate it

DT: For taking the time.