Virginia Harger Oral History Interview, May 22, 1985

JK: My name is Juliana Kelsall and the date today is February 20, 1985.

VH: And I'm Virginia Harger, Professor Emeritus of home economics, Oregon State University, and formerly head of the Institution Management department.

JK: Okay. To begin with, I would like to start with some biographical information. Could you tell me where you were born and raised?

VH: Yes. I was born in Spokane, Washington back in 1912, and my mother was born in that city also. I grew up in Spokane, went to high school there and then went to Washington State University.

JK: Okay. How many brothers and sisters did you have?

VH: I had just one sister, the two of us in the family.

JK: How did you become interested in home economics?

VH: Well, I graduated from high school when I was rather young and my father 00:01:00didn't want me to go away to college right away, and he told me that I couldn't go anyhow unless I knew what I wanted to take when I went to school. So I had a year at home between high school and college. And somehow I'd become acquainted with a dietitian and thought that would be a real fine field for me, and it was in home economics. I got involved in home economics, but it was my interest in dietetics to start with that led me to home economics, I guess, rather than home economics as a field in itself.

JK: And how did you choose Washington State?

VH: Well, this was in the Depression days when I was ready for college, back in the 1930s, and we didn't have too much money. Tuition was lower there and they had a school with a very good reputation in dietetics, so it was a combination 00:02:00of those things.

JK: I understand that you received your degree in 1930's and then you went to serve an internship in Seattle?

VH: That's right.

JK: Could you describe for us a little bit about the application process at that time?

VH: Well, I guess it did change a few years ago after I retired, but the process had remained pretty much the same for many years. During the fall of your senior year, you obtained a list of places that have internships approved by the American Dietetic Association. From that listing, and with advice from your college professors, you could choose two places where you wanted to apply in the United States. And the applications were received and evaluated and notification 00:03:00always came on April 15th as to whether you'd been accepted or rejected.

JK: Could you describe what the internship was like? Maybe your duties and responsibilities at the hospital?

VH: I'll never forget my first day. We were told to do nothing but observe. But later in the day I was given the assignment of cleaning out all the little vases on the dining room tables, putting new sand in them and putting in new flowers. (laughs) That was kind of a funny beginning but it was an exciting year, being in the hospital atmosphere to start with. I was very interested in the medical aspects of it, although I decided later to go into administration rather than the clinical part of dietetics. But our internship had an affiliation with 00:04:00several hospitals. The main one was the big King County hospital where we had experiences working with the very low cost budget. Then we affiliated with two private hospitals, Virginia Mason and Swedish hospitals, where we catered to well-to-do patients. We had excellent training in all phases of the Dietary Department, including meeting with patients, helping them with their diets, diet instruction to groups of people like pregnant women, diabetics, and so on. Also there were rotations to the main kitchen area where we were responsible for menu planning and food cost control, seeing that the food was prepared properly and served on time, and supervising personnel. It was very well-rounded. One of our 00:05:00other affiliations was with the Children's Hospital, so we had some pediatric dietetics in our program too.

JK: Was there any specific experience during your internship that led you toward administration?

VH: No, I don't think it was that so much as the circumstances of the times. It being the Depression years when I finished my internship, I was not able to find a job; there were just not many job openings at that time. When I did finally find one, it was dietitian in charge of the college food service at the University of Nevada. So I kind of "got into" administration rather than into hospital dietetics. Maybe if I'd found a job right away in a hospital in the 00:06:00clinical part of it, I might have stayed there instead of going on in administration. But I enjoyed my work very much there at the university and pursued that aspect of dietetics.

JK: So you went directly from your internship into a supervising position at the University of Nevada?

VH: That's right.

JK: Can you describe a little bit about the responsibilities you had there?

VH: Well, of course it was a small university and-

JK: How small?

VH: Oh my, this has been a lot of years ago, Juliana. I don't know whether I can say. I think the whole enrollment at the university probably wasn't more than about 1,200 students, so in the dining hall I suppose we might have had eighty to one-hundred people. Maybe a few more than that. I can't just remember right now.

JK: That gives us a general idea.

VH: It was rather small by standards of large universities today, I was 00:07:00responsible for planning menus, buying the food, hiring the employees if need be, and keeping food cost records, supervising the employees in the food production and service of the meals, and maintaining the cleanliness and sanitation of the facility.

JK: Quite a position to go into directly from an internship.

VH: Well, this was what we'd been preparing for through college and as I say, it was a rather small facility, so it was an easy beginning and I enjoyed it.

JK: What led you to pursue your master's in dietetics?

VH: When I went to the University of Nevada, of course I didn't know anyone, and 00:08:00there was another new person that year who was teaching in home economics, and we became friends. She'd had her master's degree at Kansas State University and was telling me about her experiences. A little bit later she said that she had learned that they were looking for a graduate assistant at Kansas State for the next year and thought maybe I'd be interested. So I applied and was accepted, so I combined a graduate assistantship with my master's. Salaries were pretty low in those days. I think on that first job I got 860 a month plus room and board, and I guess I thought maybe I could better myself a little more with a master's degree.

JK: I understand your thesis was done on food services in Summer Camps?

VH: My goodness, how did you get all this information? I'd almost forgotten myself.

JK: Could you tell me a little bit about how you worked on your thesis?

VH: Well, my interest went back to the fact that I'd spent about eleven summers as a Camp Fire Girl and then counselor at a beautiful camp up in northern Idaho, the Spokane Camp Fire Girls Camp. While I was in college and working on my dietetic degree, I was employed one summer a camp dietitian, so I had the interest in camp food service and so on. So I think that's what led me to choosing that particular topic for a thesis. I haven't even thought about this for, goodness, I don't know how many years. What was your question, about how I...

JK: I was just interested in how you had chosen your subject and then how you 00:10:00worked on it.

VH: It was a questionnaire type research study. As I recall, I got some camping directories and got names and addresses for different types of camps. I was interested particularly in finding out what kind of background their food service directors had and if they employed dietitians, I can remember one Boy Scout Camp Director wrote, in reply to the question about having a dietitian, "No women allowed in camp." (laughs) Don't ask me for any results! I don't remember any results of that thesis study now.

JK: If someone wants to know, they can look it up in the Kansas State University library.

VH: They can go and read it, yes. Probably it has never been read since it was placed on the shelf there. (laughs)

JK: Okay. So after you completed your master's, you went on to become an 00:11:00instructor in home economics at Ohio University?

VH: Yes, in Athens, Ohio.

JK: Could you tell me a little bit about what you taught, and what it was like teaching during those years through the Depression and World War II?

VH: I think those were some of the best years of my life, really. You know, people weren't all caught up in a lot of committee meetings, and we were getting out of the Depression. We just had an awfully good time those five years I was at Ohio University. The woman who employed me, the dean of Home Economics, had already left to take a job at Washington State University as dean there. But she 00:12:00had sent a wire to somebody at Ohio University that said, "Hire Harger for something," so I guess I was employed for a variety of things. But I taught Institution Management courses which had been my field of preparation, the administrative side of dietetics, Large Quantity Cookery, which it was called then, Organization and Management of food services, and Purchasing for Institutions. Then after I'd been there a year, they decided they needed another supervisor in the Home Management House, so I was asked to take charge of that.

And I'd never lived in a Home Management House in college.

JK: Could you tell us a little bit about that?

VH: Well, the university had this lovely old home that we used to practice home management. This was quite commonly done in home economics schools throughout the country in those years. I don't think any, or very many at least, are left 00:13:00any more. The university would buy or rent a house where a small group of home economics majors would live for about six weeks. Then another group would move in. There were six girls and myself, and they learned what they could about managing a home. They planned their meals, bought their food, and did all of the household tasks in rotation. Many home management houses had babies that they would get from an orphanage so the students could learn to take care of a baby...But our Home Management House didn't have one. But four of the years that I was at Ohio University, supervising the Home Management House was part of my teaching load, and I taught other courses in addition. But as I say, it was a 00:14:00small college town and we had lots of fun. I was young enough in those days, I guess, to enjoy all of the activities that were going on.

JK: Okay. The text that you are coauthor of, food service in Institutions, was originally published in 1938. Were you involved in it at that time?

VH: No, I wasn't, but when I first went to Kansas State where the two original authors were from, one of them, LeVelle Wood, was on a trip around the world or a trip to China or somewhere, and the people there said. "Well, you just ought to be glad you weren't here last year because they were working on that textbook and they would have put you to work on it too." But they had finished it and this was a celebration trip, I guess. So. I didn't meet LeVelle Wood, who was one of the original authors, until much later in my life. She's still a very 00:15:00good friend of mine. The other coauthor, Bessie B. West, was my major professor for my graduate work. Maybe you want to do this chronologically so I won't jump the gun, but no, I was not involved until about the fourth revision.

JK: Okay. So were you going to come back to that?

VH: Or I can go on and tell you the circumstances later if you want me to.

JK: Why don't we go ahead and talk about it now?

VH: Okay. It will be a lot to catch up with. I said that Miss Wood was on a world trip the year I was at Kansas State as a graduate student. Years later, she became my boss at the Ohio State University and she and Mrs. West were in 00:16:00the process of revising the textbook. They asked me then if I would like to join as a coauthor, which I did. That was the 1960s, so that was about twenty-five years later.

JK: Okay. After your work at Ohio University, you came out to Stanford as an assistant professor. Could you tell me what brought you back to the West Coast?

VH: Well, having grown up in this part of the country, I really was eager to get back to the West. I loved Ohio and had a good time there, but I just thought that I wanted to be closer to my family, and so I "left Ohio forever," in quotes, and accepted this position to help set up a program in dietetics at 00:17:00Stanford University with a woman who had employed me. And I taught similar courses there as at Ohio University. After I'd been there, well, less than a year, the president of the university decided that there was no place on the Stanford campus for any programs that "smacked of" vocationalism, as he said, and he abolished the program. At the same time, he abolished all sororities on campus. He got all the women together and just announced that it was enough to be a Stanford woman. One didn't need to be a sorority woman also. That caused a 00:18:00big furor because he didn't abolish fraternities, but that was the fact of life. This was in 1944, right in the middle of World War II. So, since my job had been abolished, I decided to join the army.

JK: So where were you assigned in the Army?

VH: Well, I thought I'd probably be overseas shooting a gun or something exciting like that. But I was sent first to Fort Lewis in Tacoma, Washington for basic training, and then I was assigned to Birmingham General Hospital, which is near Van Nuys, California, just out of Hollywood a little ways, and I was there throughout the rest of my tenure in the Army.

JK: You were working in the hospital then?

VH: Yes, it was a hospital and that was the only other hospital experience I had 00:19:00after my internship. It was exciting to get back into the hospital field. Ours was a debarkation hospital of about 1,700 beds. People coming back from overseas who were wounded or hurt were sent or taken to that hospital for a few days until they could be sent to hospitals closer to home. So when hospital ships would come in there might be as many as 3,500 crowded into the hospital, and then we'd have lulls, so it was kind of an up and down thing. It was really sad, and yet joyful to see their recoveries too. One of the first things they all wanted was fresh milk, which they didn't have in combat zones, and we never 00:20:00could quite supply enough fresh milk to satisfy all of them.

JK: Sounds like you really had to learn to be flexible.

VH: Well, one did, hut there were a lot of side benefits too. We were close to Hollywood and we had a lot of the Hollywood stars come out to the hospital to entertain the patients and, of course, the personnel got to be in on it too. That was fun to see a lot of the stars. Charles Laughton used to come out once a week and read. He had the most marvelous voice. I don't know whether you're old enough to remember Charles Laughton, the movie star, or not. He was a very nervous individual and he'd rumple his hair and kind of pull his tie off and so on, and he'd make everybody nervous, but if you could close your eyes and listen, he just had the loveliest voice. He'd read many different things. We had 00:21:00the Bob Hope Christmas Show emanating from our hospital dining room one Christmas before he started taking his shows overseas. That was fun, but frustrating, trying to serve Christmas dinner while all of these glamorous "creatures" were running around our kitchen, using our offices for a dressing room, and putting on their show in the dining room.

Another time, we had the premiere performance of the movie "Gaslight," with Ingrid Bergman and oh, I've forgotten who the other one was, and they came out for the opening. It was Charles Boyer, I think, and so that was exciting to have 00:22:00them there in person for the premiere. Do you remember Desi Arnaz and his wife Lucille Ball? Desi was assigned to our hospital as a special services sergeant. He was the one who made the contacts to get the Hollywood people out to entertain. Lucille Ball used to come dashing down to the hospital' on the country road in a little red convertible to see her husband, so we got to know them. People like that made it exciting. But we did have lots of sad cases, too, and a lot of paraplegics; limbs had been lost. It was hard working in that 00:23:00situation. Very satisfying, though, to see what we could do to help them over the rough days, especially with the fresh foods and things they hadn't had for a long time. And we did work hard and long hours.

JK: So after that you went back out to Ohio?

VH: No, I had a couple of years in Chicago in between. When I was about to get out of the Army after the war, the woman who had been my major professor at Kansas State, Bessie Brooks West, was president of the American Dietetic Association. She knew that they needed a new staff person in the headquarters 00:24:00office and I knew I'd soon be free. So before I was discharged, I went out to Chicago from the Los Angeles area for an interview, because ADA headquarters is in Chicago. I was hired for the job to work in the headquarters office as Placement Bureau Director, placing dietitians in the jobs that were open. So I was there for two years in that position, and this is where my contact with LeVelle Wood first came about. During the war years, she had been in the American Red Cross overseas and I guess Mrs. West, who was the coauthor of our text with LeVelle Wood and they had taught together at Kansas State, got LeVelle to come to Chicago also, to fill in for two or three months until I would be out 00:25:00of the Army and could come and take the job permanently. So when I arrived in Chicago, LeVelle Wood was there and she taught me my job. Although I had worked in her department at Kansas State, she was gone that year, so I didn't meet her until after the war. She left Chicago to take the job as head of Institution Management at the Ohio State University. I was in Chicago for those two years and times were quite different than when I got out of college.

JK: How was it different?

VH: Jobwise is what I was thinking, particularly. There were so many positions open and too few dietitians. I wasn't able to find enough dietitians for all the job openings in those days. It seemed like every hospital in the country needed 00:26:00dietitians. And in that span of, well, I was in my internship in '35 and this was '45, a ten-year period, the opportunities had increased, and the value of the dietitian had become better recognized. There was such a need for dietitians, yet it became discouraging for me trying to fill all the jobs. I kind of ran out of ways of saying to employers, "I'm sorry, I can't help you." Then too, the work never came to an end, but piled up higher and higher, and you 00:27:00never seemed to come to a stopping place in trying to place people into positions. So I decided that I would be interested in going back to teaching where your work finishes off at the end of the term and you start over again. LeVelle Wood wrote about that time, saying that she needed an assistant and asking if I would be interested in teaching at Ohio State. So although I'd "left Ohio forever" years ago, circumstances were such that I went back then and taught in home economics for nineteen years.

JK: So that was in Institution Management?

VH: Right.

JK: What kinds of courses did you teach?

VH: Just the same kind of courses, but also several additional ones. I went to summer school between jobs and got "refreshed" before I began teaching again. I went to Teachers College, Columbia University, in New York City.

JK: I understand that you have also written articles and done various other things. One thing that I was interested in was a training film for personnel on lettuce preparation.

VH: My word, where did you dig up all of this information? These things I'd forgotten about.

JK: I was curious how you got involved in that, and what was involved in making that film?

VH: Well, you're bringing up things I haven't thought about for so many years, I 00:28:00think the university had some money somehow and had written to the various departments on campus to see if any would be interested in it. Miss Wood and I had worked very closely with the Ohio Restaurant Association while we were both there at Ohio State, and we had seen the need fortraining of employees. So we kind of thought up this idea of a training film on vegetable preparation that could be used either by restaurants or other food services that might have new employees they were wanting to train. So it was the photography department on campus that helped us set it up, and we used one of the large kitchens on campus 00:29:00where we had been teaching our quantity foods laboratory and just did it there. We wrote the script and one of the students was an employee in the film. One of our restaurant boys, a very handsome young boy with blond hair and a shiny face was a busboy who later became oh no, that was another film, I guess. Not the lettuce. I'm getting my two films mixed up.

JK: What was the other film on?

VH: It was on careers in the food service industry.

JK: Was that a longer film?

VH: It was a longer film. As I recall, the Restaurant Association participated in the making of that. We had some input into it, but we didn't have the full responsibility for that one.

JK: That sounds very interesting.

VH: It was an interesting project.

JK: I understand that you also were involved in writing two articles at this time, and I was interested in how you were led in that direction.

VH: Well, I don't know that I did that much writing. We had graduate students and they were writing up their research for publication, and we'd help them and get a little of the credit for it. One article that I wrote for Hospitals magazine was a review of the food service administration literature for the year. Every year, Hospitals had someone in the field do that for their journal, and I guess someone had just suggested my name. Maybe they were desperate to 00:31:00find someone and they wrote to see if I would do it, so I did. And that was very interesting. I had thought in teaching that I had really kept up to date, but when I really began getting into researching all the journals for the current information to review for this article, I found that I learned a lot of things. And from that experience, in my later teaching years, I assigned my senior majors a similar review for a term paper project so they'd be right up to date when they left school.

JK: Something else I was interested in is that between your teaching and working 00:32:00with dietetic students, it sounds like you were juggling quite a few responsibilities. I was wondering if there was any method you used to get everything accomplished.

VH: Well, I don't remember that it was that difficult. I think probably single women use weekends for professional projects more than married people do, and maybe I did that. I don't recall any particular pressure. I think we all were involved in a lot of professional activities in addition to teaching responsibilities.

JK: Sounds like there was a lot of teamwork going on.

VH: Miss Wood and I each got along very well and did many things together.

JK: Okay.

VH: Were you going to ask about my involvement with the Dietetic Association? Sometime I'd like to put in a plug for the Association.

JK: Sure, we can talk about that.

VH: No, you go ahead with your questions. I didn't want you to forget it.

JK: I won't. In 1966, I understand that you received a Meritorious Service Award from the students at Ohio State. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

VH: It was an award given each year in connection with an awards celebration 00:34:00that was held in the College of Agriculture. Home economics was in the College of Agriculture at that time, and we had a big barbecue and program. Professors in different areas were selected for recognition each year, and I was selected that time.

JK: Sounds like quite an honor. I understand then that you came to Oregon State in 1967.

VH: Right.

JK: And I was wondering, what brought you here?

VH: Well, I'd always had the pull back to the Northwest and Dean Betty 00:35:00Hawthorne, who had recently become dean, was looking for someone to take over the Institution Management department. They'd had people come to teach a course intermittently, without having an ongoing person. I think Miss Cleaveland, whom you interviewed a while back, taught one course once a year. They had other people come to do that kind of thing. So I had this letter from Dean Hawthorne, asking if I knew of any people who might be interested in the position. I wrote back and said if I had a doctorate, I'd be interested because I really wanted to come back to the Northwest, but I had never taken time out and gotten a 00:36:00doctorate. She wrote back and said that wasn't necessary for that job at that time, and if I'd be interested, could I plan to come for an interview. So I did, was employed, and a year later I came out here.

JK: Could you perhaps compare home economics and institution management as it was in the Northwest to what you'd been doing in the Midwest?

VH: You know, I think it's pretty much the same. I just think that in both situations, and I'm sure it was true at Kansas State too, that people in home economics seem to have a certain dedication to the profession and to their particular interest in the profession. The campuses were quite different. Ohio 00:37:00State had at that time about 45,000 students and when I came out here OSU had about 15,000. Both have grown in the meantime, but Oregon State was a much smaller school. At the time I came here in 1967, it was just a turmoil period, you know, when the students were having so much unrest and riots and so on, and I was really glad to be in a little more conservative atmosphere as I found it to be in Oregon, than in Ohio at a big university. But as far as home economics itself is concerned, I really didn't notice that much difference. Ohio State, of 00:38:00course, is a little larger school and a little larger staff, but not all that much. I think both schools had about the same number of majors, a little bit larger at Ohio State, but OSU has a very large College of Home Economics for the size of the university.

JK: I was wondering if you could share some of your views on what has contributed to the growth and development of home economics at Oregon State?

VH: Well, I'm not sure I have a good answer for that. I would hope perhaps that it was the excellent opportunities that were available in the field of home economics, and that we were able to make students aware of them and create an 00:39:00interest on their part for preparing for some of those good opportunities. I know the dietetics field grew appreciably. When I first came here, I think we had nine majors graduate that first year. And when I left, we had about sixty-five. There are so many more opportunities in the field now, and I imagine this would be true in the other areas of home economics as well, that people hear about those opportunities and become interested and write. I found that I had a lot of students who, like yourself, perhaps started in other fields and 00:40:00maybe had a course in beginning nutrition, were stimulated by it, became interested, and decided to transfer majors.

JK: So it sounds to me like one of the keys was really stimulating awareness.

VH: I think that was true, and then when you get a few people interested and excited about it, it's the students themselves that promote interest among friends, and it kind of snowballs.

JK: During those years, Dean Betty Hawthorne had a big influence at OSU.

VH: Very much so.

JK: Did you have a chance to get to know her very well?

VH: Yes, in fact I'd known her before I came here because we were both very active in the American Dietetic Association. Back in 1964, I think it was, she 00:41:00was chairman of the national convention, which was held in Portland, and I was co-chairman. The co-chairman becomes the chairman that following year in that person's state, and the convention was to be in Cleveland, Ohio the following year. So I became well-acquainted with her then. Also, I'd come out to Oregon State for a workshop one summer back in the 1950s, a workshop on communications, and I became acquainted with her at that time. She was on the staff here, and was a good friend of one of my friends, and so I have known her through the years.

JK: Can you maybe share some of your personal impressions of her as a home economist and as a leader in the field?

VH: Well, her professional interest is well-documented with all of her many accomplishments. I think I've never known anyone quite as professional and 00:42:00dedicated to the profession, and one who has done so much in service to the national organization, promoting it through her deanship here in the state of Oregon. It probably was her influence in talking with people in the state and through state organizations that made many interested in coming to Oregon State for home economics.

JK: Was there any kind of philosophy that you might be able to put into words that would be a guiding principle for her?

VH: Oh, my goodness. I think you'd better ask her that question.

JK: Can you give your impressions if there were any highlights that you can remember?

VH: Well, I guess I just don't know how to answer that question, really. What was the question? How did you state the question, again?

JK: I was wondering if you could put into words what you thought if she seemed to have a guiding philosophy that really was behind her work and her professional attitude? VH: I think she wanted the best from everyone and had very high standards in performance. She herself was able to perform to a very high standard, and she helped many of us achieve more than we realized we were able to do. She set a good example.

JK: OK. Maybe now that you've kind of had an opportunity to look back on your 00:44:00career, are there, any specific challenges that you can think of that you faced in establishing yourself as a professional home economist?

VH: Well, I don't know about challenges. I think if I could bend your question a little bit one of the things that I enjoyed the most that perhaps has contributed to my interest in the profession was becoming really involved in professional activities and becoming acquainted with other home economists and other dietitians throughout the United States.

JK: Would you like to share some more about those activities?

VH: All right, I would. Yes. At Ohio State University, we had an administrative dietetic internship that Miss Wood and I helped to develop, and while she was head of the department, she became president of the American Dietetic Association, I was always very interested in ADA activities too, since I had worked in the headquarters office in Chicago for two years and knew the Association very well. When she became president, I was active at the local and state levels. The more involved you become, the more satisfaction you gain from 00:46:00the associations and the work that is being done and continued. At various periods of time I was secretary of the American Dietetic Association, chairman of the Membership Committee, delegate from Ohio, and president of the Ohio Association. Then when I came to Oregon, I was still active at the national level and served as Speaker at the House of Delegates one year. I have made many friends through the Association and seen the Association grow, so I've enjoyed that part of my career.

JK: Earlier you mentioned chairing a certain convention in Cleveland. Can you 00:47:00explain more about that?

VH: Well, each year the American Dietetic Association has their annual meeting, which is in the form of a convention, and I was responsible for the program, helping to obtain speakers for the meeting and working with members at the local level who were doing things like planning the meal functions and taking care of the routines of hospitality and registration.

JK: Maybe we could move on to a little more personal side. I was interested in how home economics has influenced your own life.

VH: Well, I don't know. Now I think probably somebody else could better evaluate whether it's had an influence directly on my life. I'm not sure that I'm a very good home economist in keeping my own home going. (laughs) But being a single person, I suppose I don't have as many of the challenges that married women who also have careers have to face, and I tend to take things as they come along without questioning what's happening at the time. I have been a very family-oriented person and my years since retirement had been pretty much 00:49:00devoted to caring for my elderly parents, who both recently passed away. I've spent a lot of time in Spokane the last five years.

JK: Perhaps you could share what aspect of home economics has been the most personally satisfying to you? What aspect of your work?

VH: Well, one of the greatest satisfactions is seeing the success of our students after they graduate. That really is exciting. For example, right now I'm helping to revise this textbook that we were speaking of earlier. Since I've been retired for six years now, I really am rather out of date. One gets that way pretty quickly in our field, so I've been doing a lot of reading and studying. But also I've been writing to former students who are now active in 00:50:00the field, asking for their help for certain things. For instance, one of our former dietetic interns at Ohio State is now at the University of Indiana, doing computer work in the School of Medicine with dietitians and physicians, particularly in the field of diabetes. I was asking her if she could help me with some applications of computer usage that we want to put in one of our chapters in the book. Another one who went on after her internship for her Ph.D. is teaching now at Ohio State University, and I've written to ask her advice and help with certain topics. So it's just seeing those that you had a 00:51:00responsibility for and worked with during their college days become successful in taking over their roles as leaders in the field. I do think that's what teaching is all about.

JK: We were talking about professional organizations, and one other thing I wanted to ask you was could you elaborate on how those organizations have contributed to the advancement of home economics in general?

VH: Well, the American Home Economics Association was of course the mother field, you might say, and you probably know as well as I that during the World War I years, AHEA wasn't able to meet as a group. So a few dietitians decided 00:52:00that they would get together anyhow, and about sixty-seven women met in Cleveland, Ohio and decided to form a dietetic association. And so it was the home economists who had specialized that promoted the area of dietetics, and I'm sure that is true with other groups of specialization too. But overall, home economics is the all-encompassing organization that most of us feel an allegiance to before we become specialized.

JK: Kind of a unified program.

VH: Yes, that's a good word for it-unifying.

JK: I understand that while you were at Oregon State you also did some consulting work in various programs for the state community colleges in their food services. Could you tell me a little bit about that?

VH: I really didn't do so much. Linn-Benton Community College was interested in a food service program. Well, let me back up. At one period of time in the 1970s, there were federal funds for training workers on the job, and Linn-Benton wanted to set up a program for training food service workers. I was on their planning committee for a period of time, helping to get that set up. And likewise at Portland Community College, they were going to train food service 00:54:00supervisors for hospitals and other organizations that needed supporting personnel for their professionals, and I worked with them for a period of time in helping them set up a curriculum to train the food service supervisors and dietetic technicians.

JK: So that was more a vocational area.

VH: Yes, and they still have the program up at Portland Community College, They enroll people who are employed on a job and who take courses so that they can apply the information to their own -work situation.

JK: Okay. Something else I'd be interested that we could talk about it a little bit-what advice would you give the students who are preparing to enter the 00:55:00profession today? Are there any tips you might give?

VH: Well, I think you almost mentioned one yourself, and it's always been my philosophy too, that at the undergraduate level, it's well for those in dietetics to be generalists and get a broad base of preparation. So many people change their minds about what they want to do after they get out into the working world and see the different areas of specialization and how they really apply. We have so many students who think that the therapeutic side of dietetics is the most glamorous and the most exciting, and after they've worked in the area a while, they become interested in administration and want to shift. So if 00:56:00they've specialized at college, they may not have as good a background as if they had been more of a generalist in the undergraduate level. That might be one bit of advice. The other might be to try to get as much work experience in the field that you think you might be interested in, so that you really can become exposed to it and see if it is what you think it is. Not just you, Juliana, but students in general. And I don't know whether the internships are putting as much emphasis these days on selecting applicants who have had good work experience as they did when I was in the field or not. But that was one of the things that they really used to look for people who had good working experience 00:57:00and had proven that they could work as a team member with other employees, and had some orientation to the filed before taking an internship.

JK: Something else I'm interested in-could you go back to when you were starting out in home economics and maybe think about some of the general goals you had in mind then, and talk a little bit about how those goals changed over the years and if those changes were the kind that you expected?

VH: Well, I'm afraid that I'm not very much of a goal-setter. I kind of hate to admit it, but I think that I am one who takes things as they come along, without having specific goals. Maybe I have subconsciously set goals, but I know so many times courses, they suggested that we should sit down and write out our goals, 00:58:00and I never could really do that. I just didn't operate that way. So I probably haven't gotten as far as I should have in the world without having set specific goals. I don't know that I could say that mine have changed so much, since I don't know just what they were to start with, other than to try to be successful in my field and to prepare students adequately for their careers.

JK: That's a very good goal in itself, though.

VH: That's a bad admission for someone to make after a lifetime career, isn't it?

JK: Well, it sounds like you've been very satisfied with what you've been doing, though.

VH: I've had a very good life. I really feel that I have. I suppose my one regret would be that I didn't stop work to get a doctorate degree. You know, when you have that job income, it's awfully hard to give it up and go back to being a student again.

JK: Well, I was wondering now if we could turn towards looking at the future. I 00:59:00wondered if you have any feelings about where you think home economics or institution management is going?

VH: Well, it seems to me the world is becoming so political-minded these days, and many of the professional fields are being shaped by what is being done at the political level. I'm thinking in terms of legislation that has affected dietitians and their role in hospitals and nursing home care, for example.

JK: Could you elaborate on that a little bit?

VH: There was recent legislation that provides for hospitals and nursing homes 01:00:00that receive Medicare payments to be paid specific, preset amounts for reimbursement for patients who have been in their care. This limits, in many cases, the amount of money the hospital will receive. Up until just recently, Medicare and Medicaid had paid after the fact. After a person had been in the hospital, for instance, they submitted a bill, and Medicare paid a portion of it. Now they have what they call the diagnosed related groups DRG's of illnesses, and for each of those there is a specified, preset payment or 01:01:00reimbursement. So hospitals are having to scrutinize their operations and try to reduce costs in all levels of operation, and this includes, of course, the dietary department. I think many dietitians are feeling that budget squeeze because it is more restrictive than it has been. So this would be one example of what I meant about legislation affecting our field of dietetics.

JK: Okay. Just keeping up on talking about some of the trends, I'm interested in where you'd like to see home economics go from here. What would you like to see 01:02:00done in the future?

VH: I certainly hope that the whole field of home economics will expand, that there will be many more opportunities for our graduates, many that we probably aren't even aware of at the present time. I hope that the people who are in the field now will be good representatives of home economics, and that the stature of the profession and association will be kept high. It would make for a 01:03:00prestigious status for a home economist, I think that even today, lay people aren't aware of the background home economists have and the opportunities there are and what home economists can do. I would hope in the future that home economists will be assertive in their roles and better recognized by the public.

JK: Okay. You talked about it a little bit, but could you tell me a little more 01:04:00about your involvement in home economics since you've retired?

VH: I really haven't done anything very much professionally in home economics, except attend meetings.

JK: Revising the textbook?

VH: Oh yes, that is in my own field of dietetics. I did mention that I really spent most of the time since retirement caring for my parents, which really is home economics too, isn't it? One of the things that did happen to me was that the Oregon Dietetic Association recognized me worthy of their first Award of Merit in 1983. I was in Spokane at the time and I came over to Portland for the 01:05:00presentation, which was very nice indeed, and very gratifying to look around the room and see that about half of them had been students of mine The president-elect, who presented the award, was a former student of mine, so that was an honor in itself. I don't think that is what your question was.

JK: I do know that you've been working on the latest revision of food service in Institutions, and so you are really busy with that.

VH: That's what I'm doing now. I'm spending quite a bit of time in Milam Hall 01:06:00doing some reading down in room 14, 15, 16 whatever (laughs), and also at Kerr Library. LeVelle Wood, who was my boss for seventeen years at Ohio State, is retired and lives in Portland, and we get together quite frequently. Although she's not doing any writing this time, she's certainly giving me all kinds of advice and help on the side. And one of the other authors lives in Kansas, and a new coauthor has joined us, a young person who is new this year to her position at Cal State at Los Angeles. We got together last summer when June the person at 01:07:00Cal State, who had just finished a doctorate at Kansas State and was on her way to California, came through here. Miss Wood came down from Portland and we had a conference call with Grace Shugart, the coauthor in Kansas, by telephone. We planned, you know, talked over our ideas of what is needed to bring the text up to date. Then we divided up the work, and each took certain topics and chapters to revise and up-date.

JK: Is there anything else that we haven't covered that you would like to add?

VH: Oh, I think you've covered my whole career pretty much in detail. The only other thing that I might mention which occurred while I was at Oregon State was the establishment of the Hotel and Restaurant Management curriculum. I helped 01:08:00the development of that curriculum.

JK: Can you explain a little bit about what was involved in developing that program?

VH: Well, it was an interdisciplinary curriculum. The degree could be earned either in the School of Home Economics or the School of Business. The School of Business had offered a minor in this field before, and they had a few men who took home economics classes. We just got together with a committee of advisors, people in the restaurant field who were invited to help us with developing the courses that would be required. So that was an interesting thing to do. A 01:09:00similar type of interdisciplinary program was developed for a major in Health Care Administration that I worked on also.

JK: And this helped to draw more men into the field.

VH: Right. Also, I did an interesting research project with Dr. Sylvia Lee, setting up a curriculum for the community colleges here in Oregon. It was a questionnaire administered by a marketing firm in Portland about what employers felt employees and food service managers needed to know. Results were our basis for developing a curriculum. This was all possible under a federal grant, and all of the time that I was at Oregon State we had federal funds to help support 01:10:00our dietetic curriculum and to build the nutrition laboratory for FN 418. That lab was established and equipped with money from the government. For about ten years we had support money that has now run out, so I think I retired at the right time! We did a lot with the money to develop our program in dietetics and help it expand. So we've appreciated that.

JK: Can you think of anything else to cover?

VH: Well, you've been very nice. You are a very good interviewer. You have lots of questions to lead me on.