Betty Lynd Thompson Oral History Interview, May 21, 1982

Marcia Kimball: Okay. Let me just ask you, what was your father's name?

Betty Lynd Thompson: It was William Alexander Thompson. And he - he was a printer by trade, but he played the harp and he played in a string quintet. And when I was a little girl, he used to wake us up and say, "Daddy brought home ice cream" because when the people would have a party, you know, in those days they didn't have refrigeration and the hostess would say, "Well, you guys take all the ice cream home because it'll melt". And so they'd wake us up at three in the morning: "Get up, daddy brought ice cream!" [laughs]. I always said I was raised on ice cream, but it was the pure kind, you know, the old fashioned kind made with pure, pure cream.

MK: Oh really?

BLT: And he was... he was - he played the harp in a string quintet and people told me my mother was very active in the turnverein and was a good performer on, 00:01:00oh, on apparatus and stuff like that.

MK: In the what?

BLT: The turnverein is a German gymnasium, gymnastic society, and her folks were German.

MK: Oh.

BLT: And... [sound of photographs rustling]. Could give you two. It was something I did once to send out for... for a Christmas... letter, you know, and so that shows me pulling my figurine out of the mold and pouring the slip into the... do you know anything about ceramics?

MK: A little bit.

BLT: You have to pour the liquid clay into the mold and then you turn it upside down after it dries and then pull the parts away and then you have your dance figurine there. And these are my two little nephews. And this is - these are dance figurines that I made myself. And then there's quite a little - I've sent 00:02:00that as a Christmas letter, so it tells a little of my background if you want that.

MK: Uh-huh. And you said you had this dance sculpture exhibited at the Seattle Museum?

BLT: Yeah.

MK: In 1945?

BLT: Mm-hmm.

MK: I understand you took ceramics classes at the University of Washington?

BLT: Yeah. I studied with Paul Bonafau. Do you know him? He was a Frenchman that came from Switzerland and he was head of the Art Department in that - at that time. And he told me, he said, "You have something that I can't teach a sculptor. You have that feeling for movement," and I was real appreciative of that.

MK: Let me get back and check with you on what was your mother's name? Maiden name?

BLT: Oswald. Ottillia Emily Louise Oswald, O-S-W-A-L-D.

MK: And what did she do?

BLT: Well... I suppose she just said she's just a housewife, but people told me that when she was a girl, she was a very good performer on the turnverein, on the apparatus at the turnverein and the turnverein is a national German organization like YMCA here. Everybody is very athletic about it. And she was supposed to be a very good performer, and I figure that I got my feeling for movement from her. And then my father played the harp in the string quintet and I figured I got my rhythmic interest from him.

MK: What did she... what did she do at the turnverein?

BLT: Oh, didn't - I suppose they did apparatus and all kinds of things. They didn't do, you know, sit down and do all the, like Martha Graham, all exercise. I don't know how they did it but it was a very popular thing in Germany.

MK: Oh.

BLT: And it was just like going to the YMCA and taking classes.

MK: Wait a minute, did she dance or did she play an instrument?

BLT: No. See, I - she died before I had a chance to interview her. She died when I was a senior in high school. But people told me that... they said, "Your mother was a wonderful performer in the turnverein," and so that's all I know. But she was, you know, she was the kind that her folks - people in the neighborhood called her the racehorse because she would just get dressed; get us 00:05:00all, four kids, all ready for Sunday school and then tear down [laughs] to the church. We had to walk about six blocks. Didn't have a car in those days. And she was just full of vim and vigor.

MK: Where was this?

BLT: in Bloomington, Illinois.

MK: Oh.

BLT: it's about 127 miles southwest of Chicago. It's a-

MK: So where - where were you born?

BLT: I was born in Bloomington I guess, mm-hmm... and lived there for a long time. I mean during my youth. And then when I went to college, I went to the University of Wisconsin, majored in dance because they were the first school to offer a major in dance.

MK: Oh, you went to the University of Wisconsin for graduate school didn't you?

BLT: Yeah. I went to Illinois Wesleyan, which is a... well, a religious school, 00:06:00you know, for my first degree, a BA. But I majored in English there and that I think accounts for my interest in writing.

MK: Oh. How did you get interested in dance?

BLT: Well, I... I can't remember where I went but I can remember going home to my father and I said, "Now I know what I want to do. Somebody came to our meeting and she did dancing and I, I would like to be a dancer." And he said, "Okay, I'll give you the money, I'll loan you the money to go wherever you have to go, and you go ahead and major in dance." So I went to Wisconsin because Illinois Wesleyan was just a little, you know, small religious school, like all 00:07:00the Wesleyan where I had a good education in riding over there. I got a degree in writing, but Wesleyans [laughs]. Where - I had a good education in writing over there. I got a degree in writing, but for dancing, why they didn't even have any physical ed., as I remember.

MK: Wow.

BLT: Oh yeah, I always think of the first dance - dancing that I ever did. Somebody came to our... I don't know what it was, a meeting or something, and they chose-

MK: What kind of meeting?

BLT: Well, I don't know, it was just a... I don't know where I was. I was just a little kid and they chose some people, children, to be in a program that was going to be put on, on the stage. And so Mother said I could do it and so I went every Saturday and practiced. And when we put it on, on the stage - we were just all little kids - they gave us each-

MK: Was this when you were in grade school?

BLT: Well, I was about five years old, or six. They gave us each a flashlight in each hand and we did the dance of the fireflies, and they put all the lights out. So I don't know how our parents [laughs] would've had to be with the flickered all over the stage. And that was my first dancing experience [laughs].

MK: When you were five years old?

BLT: About, uh-huh. Oh yeah, that was so funny. You know, we thought we were going to be seen, but we really weren't. Just the flashlights [laughs].

MK: Oh really [laughs]?

BLT: That was really funny. And see, I was born in 1902...

MK: In 1902?

BLT: Uh-huh. So that was probably about 1904 or five.

MK: When were you born in 1902?

BLT: January 23rd in 1902. I'm 80 years old now [laughs]. Times have changed.

MK: I can imagine.

BLT: And we lived - I had some pictures here of a place where we used to live. I thought maybe you'd like to see that. But I don't know, maybe you're not interested.

MK: Oh, in Illinois?

BLT: Yeah. Well, here's a picture of me at high school and that's me with my hands there.

MK: Oh, yeah.

BLT: And... Let's see what are - I should have-

MK: Where did you go to high school?

BLT: Bloomington, Illinois. And that's where I won this Loving Cup for being the best writer in the class. We had to - we had a short story contest and I won. And that- but this is in high school... and this is later, standing in front of a Christmas tree. And this is a Christmas tree in my living room, which used to 00:10:00- I used to have quite a tall ceiling in that room.

MK: Oh. Where is this? This Christmas tree? Is that - that's not here at this house, is it?

BLT: No, that was at 212 North 28th. Do you know where that is? The house is still there, I think.

MK: Oh, in Corvallis?

BLT: Uh-huh.

MK: Oh. Yeah. So you've lived in Corvallis for a while, huh?

BLT: Yeah, mm-hmm. I was born in... where did I say I was born? Bloomington, Illinois.

MK: Uh-huh.

BLT: Then when... when I said to my father I wanted to - I knew what I wanted to do now, I want to be a dancer, he said, "Okay, I'll loan you the money, go anywhere you want to." So I asked two friends - one taught in Minneapolis and the other in another mid-western university - where I should go, and she said, 00:11:00"Well, go to Wisconsin or to New York City," and Wisconsin seemed closer so I went to the University of Wisconsin. And they had the first major in dance and I studied with Margaret, Marge H'Doubler, who was just a fantastic person. Nobody'd ever thought of creating your own dances. You know, a lot of people did ballet and stuff, but she said, "Here it is just after the war and people are all"-

MK: Wait a minute, just after the war?

BLT: Uh-huh.

MK: World War I?

BLT: No - I think so, World War-[laughs].

MK: World war, the first one [both laugh]?

BLT: I guess so [laughs]. And she said, "Here we are, the soldiers are coming home, some of them are maimed and don't have arms and everything and we're flitting around little fairies." She said, "Life's more important than that. 00:12:00Remember we have to be definite." [laughs]. And so, she had this style of dance that was very dramatic, and I studied with her and then influenced me a lot.

MK: It did. What did - what did you think of Margaret [stumbles] H'Doubler?

BLT: Margaret H'Doubler, I just loved her. I have some pictures of her around here. I don't know whether you'd like to see them or not, but she was just a fantastic person. She was so animated, you know, just like this all the time, just happy and gay and... and she made everybody just love to dance. And I don't remember what we had for music. Somebody thumping away at a piano I guess... [chuckles]. I've got some articles here that I've found but I'm not sure where they are, about Margaret.

MK: I was wondering, you were saying that your father was - I was wondering how he accepted the idea of you going into dance.

BLT: Oh, he - he liked that. Here's a - I'll show you these pictures.

MK: It seems like modern dance, or I guess it was natural dance at that time, it was-

BLT: Yeah.

MK: [Unintelligible] was just new, wasn't it?

BLT: Natural dancing. This is a - here's a picture of my -- you want to pull your chair over?

MK: Okay.

BLT: This is - this is my little brother Kenneth. They wore little girl's dresses. This is my mother and me and my sister in our backyard. We had eight grape arbors. And this was my father.

MK: Oh, he's playing the harp.

BLT: Playing the harp. And that's my little - my older sister. She was two years older than I am.

MK: What was her name?

BLT: Mary. [Stumbles] Mary Thompson. She married and became Mary Toy. And look 00:14:00at the old fashioned screen we had here.

MK: Oh, that's nice.

BLT: Mm-hmm. And there are some other pictures here. This is my mother and my father right before they were married, and they were on a picnic with these people and they'd driven their horse and buggy out and sitting on the ground having a picnic.

MK: Uh-huh.

BLT: And... I've got... I think that's all my history, and it says...

MK: Oh. Let's see. This is your family William A. Thompson, is that right? And-

BLT: I can't read it without getting that closer. William A. Thompson to Tillie Oswald. My father's name was William A. Thompson and Tillie Oswald was her 00:15:00married name. They were married in Bloomington. And...

MK: Was it February 12th, 1894?

BLT: 1894 they were married. And the minister was William Cane and Frank Miller and Olga. Somebody were witnesses and it - it just tells all about that. I thought that was interesting.

MK: Oh yeah.

BLT: And, Kenneth, the oldest brother, he had red hair and he was born in 1894.

MK: Oh yes. That would-

BLT: And my next - my brother Frederick was born in 1896 and he had dark hair, and people used to say that I was Frederick's little sister because I had dark hair and my sister had red hair like my mother [laughs]. So I was Frederick's 00:16:00little sister and she was Kenneth's little sister. And... well, it even tells when I was baptized, isn't that funny? I don't know where I found all that stuff.

MK: Let me go ahead and just ask you some questions and then maybe we could look at some of those things.

BLT: I have to wear - put my glasses on because I - I see double without them.

MK: Let's see. So you got your master's degree at...

BLT: I got my Bachelor's at Illinois Wesleyan in English. That's when I won that... that little Loving Cup for writing the best short story.

MK: Oh, was that in high school or college?

BLT: Uh-huh, high School.

MK: Oh, at high school.

BLT: I had a wonderful English teacher in high school. I think I've got... even got the... here, I'll show you [laughs]. I'm a packrat. That's why my house 00:17:00looks so awful. [00:17:45 Unintelligible] and all.

MK: Watch it with this cord here. You have to kind of be careful with that.

BLT: Oh yeah. Oh, is it clipped to me?

MK: Yes, mm-hmm. Oh, let me just go ahead and ask you some things and then-

BLT: Oh, I was going to get out my Aegis, my high school album.

MK: Oh. Let me just ask you some questions and then maybe we could look at some of those things because I'd really like to see some of those too. Let's see. So you got your Master's degree at University of Wisconsin?

BLT: Mm-hmm.

MK: And when was that?

BLT: Well, let's see. When did I get it? Doesn't it say on there?

MK: I think - was that in 1927? Does that sound right?

BLT: That seems like that's when I moved out to Oregon.

MK: What did with - after you got your - after you finished the master's degree, 00:18:00what did you do after?

BLT: Well, I taught summer school at Indiana University and University of Arizona and several other big universities. But then I had my job for - to come out to Oregon, so I faithfully came out here [both laugh].

MK: How did you happen to get a job clear out in Oregon from Wisconsin?

BLT: Well, this person from Wisconsin became head of the department and she asked somebody who was one of the graduates who would be pretty good in dance and this person said "Betty Lynd Thompson." So she offered me the job.

MK: Who is this?

BLT: Let's see, I have to think who she was. She... well, it will come to me but 00:19:00I can't think of it right now.

MK: Oh. So you just - you up and decided to move all the way to Oregon, huh?

BLT: Mm-hmm.

MK: What was that a big move for you?

BLT: Well, I just went... I went home every summer to be with my folks, mostly my father because my mother died. And... well for years I always just went home just to be sure to be with him until he passed away. And Kenneth and his - he was married - he was a bachelor for a long time and then he married a woman named Luella Cook and they - I went home for their wedding...

MK: Oh, that was your brother?

BLT: Mm-hmm. And then - she's not living now either. Neither of them are [stumbles] living.

MK: Uh-huh. So... when did you come out to Oregon?

BLT: I think it was in 1927, wasn't it? I was 25 years old.

MK: Oh, okay.

BLT: Mm-hmm [chuckles].

MK: Right. Well, what was it like when you came out? What was the PE Department like when you came out here?

BLT: Well, they had just dedicated the building, the Women's Building. It had never been used before. And then I had that lovely dance studio. Have you ever seen the dance studio at the Women's Building?

MK: Oh yes, yes.

BLT: And... my - this woman that was from Wisconsin was the head of the department and she was very encouraging to me and she said that she was very happy with the way I did that I had adjusted and thought I was an excellent teacher. And I got - she gave me a lot of encouragement. You know, you can have department heads that knock you down, but she was just so helpful.

MK: What was her name?

BLT: Ruth Glassow.

MK: Ruth Glassow?

BLT: Uh-huh. She's one of the greats.

MK: And what did she teach? Did she teach or-?

BLT: She was head of the Physical Ed Department and I was on the staff.

MK: And what were you teaching at that time?

BLT: Well, first I taught - the first year I taught a little of everything, but I mostly taught natural dancing and clog dancing. And I'd teach a little folk dancing too, but I just taught it because I can read it out of the book. I didn't - I wasn't a good folk dance teacher. I know because this is Kathy Kerr I'm telling you about. She goes to the country and learns it right in the foreign country. But I just taught it out of the book. And then gradually we - our staff got larger and a woman came to teach who liked folk dancing, so I was 00:22:00glad to give it up.

MK: Oh, when was that?

BLT: Oh, I don't know. It was just a few years after I started teaching there, I guess. And then somebody came who could do tap - oh, dance accompanist said to me one day as we left the dance studio, she said, "Is this the way you do a seven, or is this the way?" And she - she'd been accompanying me as I taught and she said, "You know, I think I could teach tap dancing. And I said, "Good" [laughs] because my schedule was so heavy. So she taught it then for - she's still living, Helen Poling.

MK: Helen Poling? Oh, she taught tap dance?

BLT: Do you know Helen Poling?

MK: I've just heard the name.

BLT: Her father was a very famous minister; D. V. Poling.

MK: Oh.

BLT: And Dan Poling, her brother was Dean of Men for a long time at Oregon 00:23:00State. And Helen was - she had just kind of taught herself how to play, you know, and played for summer programs and things, and she.... she'd say, "Well, I don't know. I've never done composing." And I said, "Well, just hit some cords, just hit anything and stay with the students as they dance." And she got so... she was just fabulous. The kids would make up their dance without music and then they'd do it once for her to watch, and then she could - or you'd thought they'd made up the dance to the music. It was so beautiful. She just played exactly what they needed to make their-

MK: Oh, so they went through and made up the dances without music.

BLT: Mm-hmm. And then she played. And everybody just adored Helen Poling. She's 00:24:00a lovely person. She's still living.

MK: Was there any dance in the department before you came? Did they have ballet or something like that?

BLT: Well no, I don't think they did. I don't think they had dancing. But other than in the school, ballet was what the children took. You know because this modern dance, this - created where they called it natural dancing at first that was something different. And then you're supposed to do your own thing, you know, what you like doing. Otherwise, you were supposed to do exactly what the teacher said to do.

MK: Oh, in earlier types of dance.

BLT: Mm-hmm [chuckles].

MK: How many students did you have in a class? How big were your classes?

BLT: Well, I taught there for 47 years and many - many terms I had as many as 30. Somebody wrote it up when I retired, all the thousands of kids I had taught. I often had 30 in my 10 classes, or seven, whatever I taught.

MK: How many people did you have in your first classes when you first started there?

BLT: I can't remember. They weren't... I just... you know, people were kind of unsure of doing this kind of dancing. And it was only just toward the end of my career that we had a man in the class. Men thought it was sissy to dance. And Al, Alfred Huang, who was a Chinese boy was - became interested, and he later majored in dance at University of Southern California.

MK: So, he was one of your students? How do you spell it out? Al Huang?

BLT: Yeah, H-- H-U-A-N-G. He was Chinese and one of the boys told me that he told the boy that his father was second in command, of Chiang Kai-shek in China.

MK: Oh, that Al Huang's father was?

BLT: Al Huang's father was second in command. So he came from a very... wonderful family. And his sister also came to Oregon to go to school. I knew her too. She married and I've lost track of both of them, where they are now.

MK: What was he like as a student?

BLT: Just fabulous. His skill was perfect and he was so intelligent and everything - oh, you just can't imagine how wonderful it was to have him. And quite a few boys and began to teach - to take dance.

MK: After he started?

BLT: Mm-hmm.

MK: But there hadn't really been any men before?

BLT: I don't think I had any men until he [laughs]...

MK: Oh. When did he start taking it?

BLT: I can't remember. Someday I'll find something in my files I guess because I always wrote a lot of things down. But...

MK: Uh-huh. But was it about the 1950s, or...?

BLT: I really couldn't say. But Al was just a wonderful person. And I really lost track of him. He went - he finally... got his degree at the University of Southern California. And he taught at... well, did you ever hear of Bennington? Remember Bennington College? The campus was used by a group of American dancers for summer schools, and one of the leading PE people had been teaching at 00:28:00Bennington and they - she said, "How would you like to let a group of dancers use your campus on the - in the summer because you don't use it?" And they said, "Well, that'll be all right." And so they passed the word around the whole United States and people just came by dozens and studied at Bennington. I went there every summer and it was just - you ate - all ate together. It was a very progressive school and...

MK: Where was that?

BLT: Bennington, Vermont. And they, instead of having... Well, I went back to New York to study with Martha Graham and Hanya Holm and different leaders, but instead of people having to do that, they brought those leaders to Bennington 00:29:00because the campus wasn't in session in the summer. And so, we'd all flock to Bennington and take summer work with all these great people. It was a wonderful experience. And then we'd get together, you know, and practice with each other at night.

MK: What were some of the classes like that you took back then?

BLT: Well, depending on who was teaching, Martha Graham's were, you know, [grunts] [both laugh]. You know how she - you know - you didn't know her thing. And of course, Hanya Holm was very flowing. She was... she was from Mary Wigman's school in Germany.

MK: Oh, Mary, Mary Wigman's school?

BLT: Yeah. And Hanya had been one of her teachers and she came over to the United States and taught. And Charles Weidman was the man who... well, he was one of the great men. And then there was another one that had...

MK: Oh, he was at Bennington too?

BLT: Uh-huh. And so, I can't think of this other who had been quite a leader in dance. I'll think of it after a while. But he had been one of the first men to have a dance group.

MK: So, did you take some classes from Charles Weidman?

BLT: Yeah, uh-huh.

MK: What was that like?

BLT: Oh, just fun [laughs]. He was just a wonderful teacher. I can't remember that he did - I can't remember that he had any specific kind of technique like Martha Graham. You - you'd never miss Martha Graham if you saw somebody who had studied with Martha Graham. You'd know because nothing flowery. You didn't flit around. I remember once we were doing something across the floor and she said, "Oh, you romantic girl." And I was, you know, up in air and-

MK: So, you were taking classes from Martha Graham over at Bennington?

BLT: Yeah, uh-huh. She - she really changed my style. We did contractions and releases, you know. You sat on the floor and you... this way and this way. Every movement had to come from your... you know, you didn't flit around like this. Everything came from your torso. She said, "This is your [stumbles] center of your emotions and it has to come from there" [laughs].

MK: I heard that you brought Martha Graham out to Corvallis, to OSU?

BLT: I did [laughs]. Did you hear what was in the paper?

MK: No, no I didn't.

BLT: [Laughs] I got a whole lot of people to sign as sponsors because I had to have [stumbles] - know that there'd be enough people buy tickets, you know, to 00:32:00bring her. And with the editor of the paper, I got his wife - she was very interested in dance - and she signed and so I went to him and I said, "Do you want to sign to be a sponsor for Martha Graham?" "Me? I'd rather be out playing golf." And I said, "Well, your wife signed." "Okay, I'll put my name down." And when the - after her program was over, he wrote an editorial that was about this long in the paper. And I thought it would - when he came, he said, "Well, where's this lady? I'll sit with you and then let's go back at intermission and interview her" and I thought he'd write a wonderful commentary. Instead, he said "Martha Graham danced at the high school auditorium to a full house, which is a great accomplishment of Betty Lynd Thompson. As for the dancing, the draperies 00:33:00were lovely and in good taste" [both laugh].

MK: Oh, so he wasn't too excited about the dance.

BLT: No. He meant the costumes, the drapers.

MK: He...? Huh?

BLT: He didn't know dance from sick 'em, but his wife told me that she - she said-

MK: Now who was - who was that? Was that the - with the Gazette-Times?

BLT: Uh-huh. Let's see. What was his name? Oh dear. Who was the one that just retired?

MK: Oh, gee. I couldn't tell you. I don't know.

BLT: Well anyway, it - you know, it's been a series of people that have been editor of the Gazette-Times and it was one of them.

MK: When did you bring her here? When did you bring Martha Graham to Corvallis?

BLT: I think it was 1940, as I remember. And his wife met me and we were talking 00:34:00and she said, "You know" - oh, his name was Claude Ingalls. She said, "Well Claude, you know, he doesn't care for things like that but," she said, "All the people I talked to just thought she was wonderful, Betty, and we think it's so good that you brought her here." But he said her draperies are lovely and in good taste [laughs]. People came to me and said, "Do you want us to go shoot the editor?" [laughs] and I said, "No. The ones that saw her and liked her, liked her, and if they didn't like her, well they didn't like her, so" [laughs]. It wasn't going to worry me. But we made our expenses and that was the main thing.

MK: So there - were there a lot of people that came?

BLT: Mm-hmm. They filled - packed the high school auditorium...

MK: Oh, so there were quite a few hundred people there?

BLT: You mean in the...

MK: In the auditorium?

BLT: Well, it sits about a thousand people doesn't it? The high school auditorium?

MK: Oh, wow.

BLT: It's the same one.

MK: Uh huh. So you had that full, huh?

BLT: Yeah, uh-huh [laughs]. And we - we promised her... the way we made the offer, we just said we didn't know whether we could meet a specific amount, but we'd give her, you know, everything that we took in.

MK: I was wondering how did people first - how did people react to modern dance or natural dance when you first came out to OSU?

BLT: Well, I don't know. When I first came it was traditional on Mother's weekend to do a festival on the green, and we did it on the lower campus down below where the... well, there's a hill there and the people would sit on the hillside and watch, and we'd wave scarves and do all sorts of things like that. 00:36:00And then finally I decided that I wanted to do an indoor [stumbles] concert because I didn't want to just sort of do scarf dancing all the time. So we brought into the... I think we rented the high school auditorium and did it there. And the last year I was teaching, we filled the Coliseum, made a lot of money that day, year

MK: Oh, the Coliseum on campus at OSU?

BLT: Uh-huh. But it took time, you know, to get people to appreciate it. I had a lot of people that came to my support.

MK: I was wondering what was... what it was like to be in the dance department during the Depression years?

BLT: Well, I can't remember that affected us. It didn't affect me. I don't think it really did. Oh, they didn't have enough money to give you big raises, but I was teaching for the love of it anyway and... I can't remember that it affected us very much.

MK: Were you having budget cuts in those days as they do now?

BLT: Oh yeah, [laughs] same. Same problem all the time.

MK: What was it? I know that in about 1933 they had things like the Public Works Art Project or the Federal Theatre Project with a dance section and they, you know, they supported dance through some of these federal projects during the 1930s. I was wondering if any - if you saw any of that in Corvallis?

BLT: I don't remember that we did because we weren't a commercial - we weren't dancing for a living. I mean, we were just dancing because we loved dancing, you know? And we were - that was part of our training, but I wasn't a professional dancer in the sense that you'd tour the country, like some of them. Ted Shawn was the first man to have a men's group that toured the country. You ever heard of him?

MK: Yes, yes.

BLT: And I knew him. It was really fun to know all these people personally too, that were so famous.

MK: Oh, I can imagine. How did you meet... How did you meet him?

BLT: Oh, I don't know, just in the course of... meetings. I don't know how. He wasn't especially my friend. Some of them were very close to me. And - like Al 00:39:00Huang, he was just almost like a brother. You know, he was in my home and - but Ted Shawn was not.

MK: He was in-

BLT: I mean-

MK: Oh, he came over, Al Huang came over and visited and things like that?

BLT: Yeah.

MK: You were - let me see you - you wrote the - your book in 19 - during the thirties, didn't you?

BLT: Well, I think it was published in '40. See what - when it was published. And A. S. Barnes published it and I think it was about the first text ever to be published and somebody told me it was in every library in the United States.

MK: Oh really?

BLT: Was that 1941?

MK: No, it was published in 1933.

BLT: Oh, was it? Yeah.

MK: Yeah, by A. S. Barnes. How did you happen to write a book on dance?

BLT: Oh, I don't know, I... I've been a writer, you know, and I was interested in writing all my life and there was nothing on... no publication on dance because most of the dancers just wanted to dance. They didn't want to put anything down on paper. So I decided we needed a book and I... I don't know how I got acquainted with Mr. Pratt, who was President of A. S. Barnes, but he came out to visit me and I - and he was very supportive of me.

MK: What was he from?

BLT: He was from someplace near New York. It wasn't in New York proper, but one of the towns. I went back to visit him at his home. He and his wife invited me 00:41:00back there.

MK: And was he a publisher?

BLT: Yeah, he was President of A. S. Barnes. I think it says so in there.

MK: Oh, so he helped in - did he encourage you to write the book?

BLT: Oh yes. And I read proof four times because every time I read it, the printers would shift some little line, you know, enough to make it wrong in that little rhythms patterns. And I'd have to send it back and then the - I'd proofread it and correct it and send it back, and four times it went back and forth across the country. But he and his wife were out here once on a trip and... so I knew them personally. They invited me to their home too in... in Newark, New Jersey, I think it was.

MK: So, how was the book received after you published it?

BLT: Well, I don't know, but people told me it was in every library in the United States. I mean, every college library. It had a - I got commission. I got 00:42:00what do you call it, when you get 10% of the...

MK: Oh, royalties?

BLT: Yeah. I got really good royalties for years. So that helped out.

MK: Let's see. What was it like teaching dance during World War II, during the 1940s? What was it like in the department?

BLT: I don't really remember that there was anything different... except that there were many more men on the campus, and that might've been a time when we had more men in our dance classes.

MK: Oh really?

BLT: But there wasn't - I wasn't aware of too much difference except there were so many men. Or where there weren't men in the classes. I guess there were just 00:43:00- but later they came back and took classes.

MK: How many people were in the - who was in the PE Department at that time? Do you remember?

BLT: Oh dear. I think we had about nine on the staff. I think we just had about five at first, but I think it went up to about nine or 10.

MK: Who were some of the people that were on the staff and...?

BLT: Well, let's see... Eva's, Eva Seen was one dance - one of the faculty members. She was later made the head of the department, I think. Eva M. Seen, S, double E, N.

MK: S, double... S-E-E-N?

BLT: Uh-huh. Eva Marie Seen. And she and I knew each other back in the Midwest. Or I don't know, I can't remember now how we got acquainted, but... Anyway, she was quite active.

MK: What did she teach?

BLT: Well, she was sort of a - head of the department.

MK: Oh, okay.

BLT: And we had our ups and downs because she was a kind of a person that had pets. And I remember I went once to the... I went to the even - first I went to the head of the Men's Department, who was head of us at that time, and he said, "Well, nothing I can do." And so then I said, "Well, do you mind if I go and talk to the president?" "Oh, won't do you any good." And so, I went to the 00:45:00president and I told him what the situation was, that she was always giving favors to her pets, you know, and so he said, "Well, you can go talk to the head of the," well, whatever this committee is organizing our, you know, higher education. President of Higher Education. I forgot who it was, but I went to him [laughs], and I told my story. And they eventually corrected it, but it took a lot of - and I remember at the time that I went to my doctor and I said, "You know, I - it's just... it's got me terribly nervous, you know, this tension in the department." And he said, "Well," he said, "If the tension gets you down, just go home and pull weeds" [laughs]. So that's always been my solution when I 00:46:00got upset nervously. I just came home, pull weeds. It's a good thing I lived out in the country where I could [laughs].

MK: Oh, you lived here at that time? Went to housing.

BLT: Yeah [laughs].

MK: That was in the 1940s, huh?

BLT: Mm-hmm [laughs].

MK: What was - what was all the tension over?

BLT: The head of the department. Eva Seen just gave her pets all of the favors.

MK: Uh-huh, what kinds of things?

MK: Oh, you got to go on to conventions and got your way paid to this convention and that convention and stuff like that. And I was against it because - and she tried to - she was trying to fire somebody who was really the most brilliant person on our staff, but she wasn't the kind to kowtow to Eva. And she was going try to fire her, and then that's when I went to the chancellor, the president 00:47:00and then the chancellor.

MK: Who was president at that time?

BLT: Oh, I can't remember. I went to the chancellor. I had to go down to Eugene. And...

MK: So, I heard that you did quite a few programs with the servicemen during-

BLT: With the what?

MK: With quite a few dance programs for the servicemen.

BLT: Yes, uh-huh. Especially during the war. We - I was - I had a friend in Victoria, British Columbia who was the head of - she was head of all the education in the high schools or something, really a person of a lot of responsibility, and she arranged and talked to some of the people that they had 00:48:00a war services group. Y - I don't know whether it's connected with the YMCA or not. And they wanted - they invited us to go on a tour. First, we went up to Canada and gave concerts. I took a whole big group of people. And one time we went, we gave a concert for the national convention of all the women's clubs in the United States. There was hundreds of people there from all over the country.

But when we went up to Canada, they arranged for us to - they said, "Now, you just - you get yourself into Canada"-because it had the red tape, you know, to get into - over across the border. "If you get yourself here, why we'll take care of you and we'll have our men chauffeur you to the different schools where you're to give your concerts." And sometimes we had to do the show in a small - 00:49:00just a small room, and the stage was about as big the stage on a Women's - you know, in the dance studio, that little stage. And I was doing a - I was leading a study in falls and I came running in, supposed to come running into the room and high lift and fall and turn around and get up and, you know, go on dancing. And so, they kept putting us in different places. We never knew where - what we were going to be, and they just took us in their station wagon to these different places. So one day they took us to a big auditorium and the girls were just thrilled to have so much space. I think I took six students.

MK: Oh, you had six students with you from OSU?

BLT: Mm-hmm. And when we... when I came running across - you see these boys in 00:50:00the - that were in the army in Canada, they would go from one place to the other where - they found out what our itinerary was and they were just - and they'd be in the audience and they'd say, "Hi Eris, hi Joan" [laughs], just talk to the dance girls and have parties for them after the show. And in this one time, we had this big auditorium. It was almost compr-well, it was about like the high school auditorium, I think. Big stage. And I was the one leading the run - study in falls, and I came running across the floor, lifted my arm up in the air in a big leap and then fell down and rolled over and got up, and when I was up in the air, why somebody yelled "Superman!" [laughs]. I guess I did look like I was flying. That was really fun. And then after those programs, the boys always had 00:51:00a big party for us.

MK: What kinds of productions did the girls put on? Where - were you all dancing together?

BLT: Well we - we did a set routine, you know. We did a whole series of dances with - we had a program and... Well, just like you would at Mother's weekend. You just did you...

MK: What were some of the dances like, or what were some of the names of the dances? Do you remember?

BLT: I can't remember. I may have something in my files, but I can't remember. But it was really fun. And the girls were just thrilled. The president of the... Oregon State president, his daughter was in my dance group. Now let's see, what was her name?

MK: Of the president of the university?

BLT: Uh-huh. Of Oregon State. Patricia... what was her last name? [Patricia 00:52:00Strand, daughter of President A. L. Strand] Anyway, she was one of our dancers and he let us take his station wagon and go.

MK: Up to Canada?

BLT: Uh-huh. And...

MK: When was this?

BLT: It was during the war I think [laughs]. I'd have to go back and think. I-

MK: Oh, I was wondering how you got up to Canada during the war when there were so many things going on here.

BLT: Well... You see this - the president of the university let his daughter drive his station wagon up to Canada. So she took the whole group of us up. And then from then on, the men in the service saw that we were driven to different places to dance.

MK: Now, were these Canadian servicemen?

BLT: Mm-hmm. Oh, and they said that - they said it was so wonderful just to have 00:53:00a bunch of college girls dance because most of the shows were by USO and they were a lot of these old, you know, dyed in the wool... people that had been performers for years and years, and they didn't have the sparkle that the girl's had [laughs].

MK: Did you tour around the country in the United States at all?

BLT: Not very much. I went back to Bennington in Vermont, you know, every summer, but I never took the group on big tours like that.

MK: Let's see. Now tell me about Orchesis. Was this the Orchesis group that you took up there?

BLT: Mm-hmm.

MK: It was?

BLT: Uh-huh.

MK: When - when did you - when did that start?

BLT: Well, Orchesis was started at the University of Wisconsin when Ms. Stover was teaching. And then every graduate that got a job at some other school, like 00:54:00I came to Oregon State, well I started an Orchesis group here. And then somebody went to the Kansas University, they started an Orchesis group. So there were Orchesis groups all over the United States because teachers started it.

MK: What was, what was Orchesis like, or what was it?

BLT: Well, it was just... you had to pass a certain set of tests, you know, to show your skill. And... I don't know. We had certain regulations and they had to try out and they... they had to be people that were willing to give up their time, you know, to dance and to go on the tours. Some people took dance just to get a credit, you know. But these had to be devoted people that wanted to dance.

MK: So they beat people that had had two or three...

BLT: Well, they might've even had a little ballet as a child or whatever. And once we danced for the national convention of all the women's clubs of the United States. There were hundreds of women there and it was real exciting.

MK: Where was that?

BLT: I think that was up in Seattle.

MK: Oh. When was that?

BLT: This friend of mine who lived in Victoria was one of the people that always got us into these places [laughs] because she was a... she was - the whole province of... what is it? Victoria is in what province?

MK: Oh, British Columbia?

BLT: Yeah. She was a head of something in that whole group and she was very 00:56:00devoted to what we were doing.

MK: How did you know people in British Columbia or in Victoria?

BLT: Well, just... somebody... oh, this - we went once up to Canada to... I don't know how I happened to be doing it, but I was calling square dancing and this woman, who later became, or was then maybe, the head of all the... what you'd call physical ed, she heard me - she was up in the balcony and she heard me saying "Oh, I'm on left in the grand, right and left" and so forth and she - I got to meet that girl [laughs]. And she got so interested and we became very close friends.

MK: Now, who is this?

BLT: So I'd go up to Canada almost every summer and she'd come down and visit me 00:57:00in the summers. She passed away before she... she was going to come and live with me, but she passed away.

MK: What was her name?

BLT: Um, you know [laughs] isn't that silly? Oh, I know her as well as I know my own name because... hmm. But she - she was very noted in Canada. Hmm. Well, I don't know. She... oh, let me - I was just about to - I'm just about to think of it. Oh, Marion James. Marion James. And she had this fabulous position up there and made a lot of money. We were - she was going to come down here and live when 00:58:00we - when we retired, and that's why I added another room to my house, but she died before she got to come.

MK: When was this that you knew her?

BLT: I can't remember. But she came... she'd always come for Christmas vacation. She'd come down here and I'd go up there for my vacations. We just shuttled back and forth. We were very close friends and... And she - I can't remember. She died of a... oh, something in her abdomen. I've forgotten the name of it. But...

MK: You must've seen a lot of changes teaching at OSU for what, 47 years?

BLT: [Laughs] 47. Yeah.

MK: You must have seen a lot of changes in the department there.

BLT: Uh-huh. The Women's Building had just been dedicated in February of the year I started in September. So, I had the use of a beautiful studio. And Ruth Glassow was head of the department and she was very sympathetic to what I did. I mean, she used to tell me that "That's all right for you to do this and this and this because you are so dependable and you're doing such a good job." You know, she had a lot of confidence in me. I wasn't just teaching to get my paycheck. She saw that. And... I don't know.

MK: Who were some of the other people in the department at that time? Do you remember any of the other people?

BLT: Oh, gee. I have to think. I know the - I can remember the one that took - 01:00:00taught the correctives, but I can't think of her name now. She was a wonderful person.

MK: The correctives? What's that?

BLT: Oh you know, posture and that sort of thing.

MK: Oh.

BLT: Corrective exercises for your posture. I haven't thought of her for a long time, but... Oh, I think it was some time [laughs].

MK: So what - what was the - what kind of reaction did you get to modern dance or natural dance when you came to OSU?

BLT: Well, nobody had ever taught it before. And... oh, I don't know. Like the editor that said the draperies were lovely and in good taste [laughs].

MK: How did the students like it?

BLT: Oh, they loved it. And it wasn't required. You know, you had to take... I 01:01:00think you had to take three credits of physical education to graduate in those days.

MK: During the whole four years?

BLT: Mm-hmm. Or it might have been three years. You had to take credit a year, anyway. And... gosh, that goes back so long. We had a - we had a pretty good staff, and having the new building just open, you know, it was just especially nice because we had all this lovely floor in the dance studio, and used to have to dance out on campus out on the grass.

MK: Oh, before they built the building?

BLT: Mm-hmm. Sometimes we - once we danced in the men's gym, but we had the audience all sit at one end in the balcony and we had a... this dancing down 01:02:00here and then chairs, you know, all over. And then once we even did it in that little what's that first little building that they talk about? It's - it used to be the YMCA building and it's a little tiny building. We-

MK: What is it near?

BLT: Hmm?

MK: Oh, what is it near?

BLT: Well it's not what?

MK: Is it on the campus?

BLT: Yeah, it's still there. Just a little tiny building.

[Tape break]

BLT: --gym because that's where the... that's where they had the women's classes. I think there was about one shower or something [laughs]. It's Mitchell Playhouse now.

MK: Oh, Mitchell Playhouse used to be the old women's PE building?

BLT: Mm-hmm [laughs].

MK: Oh, okay. Did - did you dance outdoors in your classes?

BLT: Yeah, just under the trees.

MK: Oh, under the trees over there by Benton Hall, or?

BLT: Yeah. There's a kind of a slope and every year we had to worry if it might rain because we had to bring a piano out, you know. Men had to carry a big grand piano out there and put it on the campus. And we just had to kind of run down the hill from the building. There was no curtains or anything. You just did it-

MK: Oh, this was for Mother's Day.

BLT: Mm-hmm.

MK: Or May Day?

BLT: May Day, but it-

MK: May Day?

BLT: Uh-huh. That's what they called it [chuckles].

MK: Why did they pick that day for celebration or the dance?

BLT: Well, I don't know but that's when the mothers came, I think.

MK: Uh-huh. What was it like? What were the dances like?

BLT: Oh, in some of them we were waving scarves. Where's my book? Did I give you 01:04:00a copy of it? I think there's some pictures in there I can show you.

MK: Okay [pages rustling].

BLT: Well see, this was a later... later time. That was one of my best students and we went over to the coast and...

MK: Pendulum Swing? What is that?

BLT: I had a... I had a man that was very interested in photography and he just took dozens of pictures of us. This is a whole series of... some of the...

MK: These are all on the beach, aren't they?

BLT: Mm-hmm. Yeah, he took us over to the coast and... That girl's name is Margaret Jewell, and she's still around.

MK: This is your book Fundamentals of Rhythms and Dance, isn't it?

BLT: Mm-hmm.

MK: What - what was Margaret - did Margaret Jewell go on in dance?

BLT: Yeah, uh-huh. Yeah, she did.

MK: What did she do?

BLT: Well, this is Margaret Jewell that's dancing here. Maybe it doesn't say.

MK: It doesn't really say. What did she do?

BLT: Well, she was just one of my best dancers.

MK: Uh-huh.

BLT: And wasn't her father something important, Dean Jewell?

MK: On the campus?

BLT: Uh-huh. I've forgotten.

MK: Who were some of your other good students that you remember?

BLT: Oh gosh, I had so many. I think this was Margaret Jewell. She was a tall girl and I used her for... see how?

MK: Oh yeah. These are nice, on the beach there.

BLT: Uh-huh. Very beautiful girl. Well, we had - I had many more students, but 01:06:00you know, the photographer and you can go to the coast and you don't have to take the whole class.

MK: Where did you go to have these taken? What part of the coast?

BLT: Oh, over near Newport. Isn't that lovely?

MK: That is.

BLT: And see, we wore those little - you had an underbody, which is just like, you know, straps over the shoulders, and then you just tied a couple of pieces of gauze on the shoulder and had a belt. That was the costume.

MK: Was that what you used in your dance classes?

BLT: Uh-huh. Well, it was a long time before we had leotards.

MK: Do you remember when leotards came in [both laugh]?

BLT: No. This is one of the dances we did in the Women's Building.

MK: Oh, I see, you're using a scarf.

BLT: It was a scarf dance.

MK: So did you use scarves a lot?

BLT: This is Margaret Jewell. Yeah, we did. That was very - we had one great big 01:07:00scarf, I've forgotten how many feet, and we could do so many things with it, you know, lift it up and run under it. And scarf dancing was all the rage then.

MK: When was this?

BLT: Oh dear. I don't know. That's Margaret Jewell and Miriam Lidster was one of my best too.

MK: Miriam who?

BLT: Lidster.

MK: Lidster?

BLT: You know her? She's been - she was later National President of Dance. Went all over the country. Oh, now here-

MK: Oh. How do you spell her name?

BLT: L-I-D-S-T-E-R. And this is Margaret there and... it's just... forgotten what we call that dance. Does it say there?

MK: A conflict?

BLT: Yeah, a conflict. It was about the first very powerful kind of a dance we did, you know, as differing from scarf dancing. We were just going into the Martha Graham kind of thing.

MK: Oh, okay. So scarf dancing came before Martha Graham.

BLT: Oh yeah, uh-huh.

MK: Where did that - where did the scarf dancing come from?

BLT: Oh, I don't know.

MK: Do you remember what dancer - did you do the scarf dancing back in Wisconsin? When you were at the University of Wisconsin?

BLT: I can't remember that we did. We did creative, though.

MK: At Wisconsin?

BLT: Mm-hmm. So, everything wasn't [stumbles] - everything wasn't scarf dancing. The most typical thing was the costume, these little gauzy things, whereas in 01:09:00later we just wore leotards and tights. That was a long time later [laughs] because that was kind of risqué to wear leotards and tights.

MK: Oh really?

BLT: Oh yeah.

MK: Oh.

BLT: I don't know why. This - these are so brief that I don't know why that wasn't risqué, but it was just the scarf and everything is just flowing.

MK: I was wondering what - what kind of contributions -- what are some of the high points of your career in dance? Can you think of...?

BLT: Gosh, I don't know whether I had any [laughs].

MK: [inaudible]

BLT: It was -- most of it was a fact that I... that I wasn't doing traditional dance like ballet. I had very little training in ballet and I hated it. And so, 01:10:00you know, four positions of your arms and, you know, a [stumbles] - it's just nothing to it. And as soon as you got carried away with Miss Marge H'Doubler, you were going to dance, you know, and let your whole body flow. And I don't remember, it's kind of hard for me to go back and remember all those things.

MK: So, you didn't like ballet?

BLT: No, I didn't like that. But when I-

MK: Did you ever have to teach ballet?

BLT: No, I never did. I taught tap dancing, see?

MK: Oh, right.

BLT: But... I - sometimes we called it clog dancing. And I wasn't that good though, but I was fairly good, but not like some of the professionals.

MK: Oh wait a minute, are tap dancing and clogging the same thing?

BLT: Well...yeah.

MK: They are?

BLT: Uh-huh. But clogging, just men mostly do it and then there's just... a rattle and, you know, but the tap... tap dancing, you do a lot of - you have a ta-da-da-da, you know? It's not just bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. It's quite rhythmic.

MK: Oh.

BLT: And you do sevens and different... It's so long ago that I did it when I have - I'd have to go back and... teach it.

MK: And who was it? You were doing - I wanted to look at some of the pictures over here. Let's see. You did... the danceramics?

BLT: This is - this is Margaret Jewell.

MK: Oh, that's - okay. Margaret Jewell. Hysteria, huh? Now, who is this in this photograph?

BLT: That's Betty Lynd on - doing a fall.

MK: Oh, that's you doing a fall?

BLT: Uh-huh. Yeah. And this is just a step out in the space with a backbend.

MK: I heard that you did a lot of falls in your classes. You'd compete in classes.

BLT: Yes, I did. This is going into a fall. That's one of my best students.

MK: Who is that?

BLT: I can't remember her name. She was a darling girl. And... what other 01:13:00pictures do I have in there? Oh, these are my two lovely dogs I had for... Isn't that lovely?

MK: Oh. What are their names?

BLT: Quirky and Chipper.

MK: Oh, right. Those are - what kind of dogs are they?

BLT: Well, they're Llewellin Setters. And... the same man that liked to take my picture - this is me down in my basement studio. This is a little house I lived in and these are pictures that my niece painted on the windows at Christmas.

MK: Oh, this is your house in Corvallis?

BLT: Uh-huh. It's on 28th street.

MK: Oh. Were you ever married?

BLT: No, I never was.

MK: Uh Huh.

BLT: And you know why I wasn't?

MK: Why is that?

BLT: I went with the same man for years and he was a very brilliant man and he was supposed to have been the - he was in electrical engineering and he had the 01:14:00highest grade point of any electrical engineer for years, you know.

MK: Uh-huh.

BLT: He's quite conceited. And he'd call me up and he'd say, "I'm just about to... I'm getting into my car, I'll be right over." And I'd be all dressed up, ready to go. An hour later he'd come in and I'd say "Well, where have you been?" "Well, I heard a funny noise in my car and I thought I'd better figure out what it was and I just lost my - I - well, I lost track of time," and he said "But it didn't matter to you, did it? You were here at home. You could have done something here." Here I was all dressed up, ready to go, waiting about an hour [both laugh].

MK: Who was this?

BLT: Eugene Starr. He was later on the faculty in the Electrical Engineering Department. I was on the faculty in the PE Department.

MK: Oh, so he was teaching at OSU?

BLT: Uh-huh. And... well, I just...

MK: So, you went together for quite a while?

BLT: Oh, for years. And then we decided that - I finally said, "I don't think that - I don't think it's a good idea for us to keep going together." And he said, "Well, I never wanted to marry anybody but you." But you know, he just couldn't... it was just - he's just one of those things he had to keep doing what he was doing.

MK: Uh-huh. He was involved with his work, huh?

BLT: This is - I was a recipient of something for teaching dance. It's a something of the National Dance-

MK: Oh, 'National Dance Association designates Betty Lynd Thompson as recipient of the Plotted Award for dedicated and inspiring teaching of dance.'

BLT: And this is -

MK: I heard you... I heard you were a member of a lot of dance groups and things 01:16:00like that.

BLT: Oh, I don't know whether I was or not. I was always the main one.

MK: The National Dance Association you belonged to?

BLT: Mm-hmm. Well, we all belonged to that. You know, we went to the... we went to the national meetings and... but they gave me this award when I retired.

MK: Uh Huh.

BLT: And I don't know what that is.

MK: 'Relaxation and figure control classes offered at Corvallis Park and Recreation Department by Betty Lynd.' Let's see...

BLT: And this is when I had something that I got when I re-I had taught for 50 years, I think.

MK: Oh. It's a little bit hard to read. Let's see.

BLT: And then when I moved out in the country, somebody told me I needed a dog to protect me, and these are the two dogs that someone gave me, but they're not living now.

MK: Uh-huh. Did you - did you write a history of dance at OSU?

BLT: I don't know. I don't know whether I ever did or not. I can't remember. This is what they wrote about me when I retired. And here are the things that I... I wrote Fundamentals of Rhythm and Dance, which is that green book, and the student manual. I gave you one of those. And then I had some little brochures, Orchesis dance "In a Forward Movement." I still got that somewhere around. Correlation of dance with other creative arts; creative tap dance [laughs] and 01:18:00the art of weeding [laughs].

MK: The art of weeding?

BLT: That was a good article, though. I told people how to use good body mechanics, you know, instead of... I looked at a friend when I was coming down the street and she was quite a large woman and she was bending down with her knees straight and jabbing at the weeds, you know. And so, I emphasize the fact that that was bad for your back and, and you should... you know, sit and do different things and twists and - when you were weeding, to keep your body in good shape.

MK: There's more pictures of your dogs. Oh, these are some nice ones of the dance.

BLT: That's Madeline Stearns. That's her picture over there in that little frame.

MK: Oh.

BLT: Well here's one of my first goats.

MK: She was one of your students, huh, Madeline Stearns?

BLT: Yeah. I had that goat and I had this little doggy... and then those two cats. I've still got one cat. This is my brother Frederic.

MK: Uh Huh.

BLT: And this is what my niece put on the windows of my house on 28th street. She's quite an artist. And this is the house I lived in... for a while.

MK: On 28th street in Corvallis?

BLT: Mm-hmm.

MK: Oh, here's a whole group dancing. Here.

BLT: That was called orchestration and we took the - everybody learned the melody of... the parts of orchestration. You know, they had the music in front of them and each group followed that rhythm, but then it ended with all of us 01:20:00lifting our arms.

MK: Oh, so it was - this was a dance where different - different groups of the dancers-

BLT: Different groups followed the different rhythms in the dance.

MK: Oh. Did the instruments [stumbles], they play-

BLT: Yeah. It was like you were an orchestra and we took the orchestration and everybody was either violins or second violins or cellos and... and it just ended like that.

MK: When was this? Was this-do you remember when at all?

BLT: Gosh, I can't remember. It was so long ago.

MK: I can't - I don't see any date on it.

BLT: I just keep sticking stuff in this broken album. This is a cow I owned once when I moved out in the country.

MK: Oh, when you moved out here?

BLT: I had a little calf. Uh-huh. And this is one of my pet cats. I wrote a poem 01:21:00about Benjamin B once and never had it published. But...

MK: Did you do - have you done much writing? Writing for poetry or creative writing?

BLT: I've done a lot of it, but I haven't much published. I mean, I - I just do it for my own pleasure.

MK: What are-

BLT: Now I have the material all ready to go for a... a text or a little article, a little booklet that women could take in their home and exercises that you could do in your own room, you know, just dressed however you wanted to be. And... it's almost a complete workout, you know, for the whole body. But you don't have to go to a gym or... because I thought it would be a nice thing to - 01:22:00a lot of people have to pay to go to these places to keep fit. And that's my purpose in that. I don't know what pictures are.

MK: What are some of your other interests?

BLT: Oh, I don't know [laughs]. I don't even know where these are, but these are... probably some are of my place when we had a flood. There's Marys Peak, back of that hill. And what's this? Well, here's-

MK: Did you do some classes for senior citizens?

BLT: Yeah, I did after I retired. And I had a man who came and he said, "I can't do anything but sit on a chair." He said, "I've had arthritis." And so I said, 01:23:00"Well, just sit on a chair, and you can do some of the things with your arms and so forth." And by the end of the season, he was lying on the floor and doing the same things that the other people were doing. And we were - that was really amazing.

MK: Wow.

BLT: And some of my friends thought it was quite remarkable. This is a little routine I worked up and the kids had to learn the whole thing. And then the...

MK: Oh, exercise fitness. Let's see, "Exercise Routine for Fitness," Betty Lynd Thompson, 1971.

BLT: Uh-huh. This "bend around the compass," you bend forward and sideward and, you know, that way. And slow knee bend and tuck and twist. Well, it's - kids each had a copy so they knew what they had to do [chuckles]. I mean, I gave them each a copy of the routine to-

MK: Oh, is this for - what aged kids was this?

BLT: This was Oregon State College.

MK: Oh, this was in your dance classes?

BLT: Mm-hmm. This is the president of A. S. Barnes, who wrote to me. I'll read you his letter. I once had a chance to marry him, but I didn't want to.

MK: Oh, this is J. B. Pratt that you were talking to?

BLT: Yeah, he was the president of A. S. Barnes. "Dear Betty, I also have my - neglected to write you soon after your most"... what's that? "Unusual" or something "letter came. I am glad you're still in... still enjoy your work. Your book is still selling somewhat and I hope you will not be disappointed when the royalty is made up. I found the trip back and forth to New York, particularly 01:25:00getting up early in the dark, was rather frustrating. So Gladys and I," - that's his wife - "have taken a small apartment here for a few weeks during the winter. We have a kitchenette. Gladys prepares breakfast and oftentimes dinner. Sometimes I take her out and we have a dance as we did last night at the Roosevelt. Lowell" - that's his son - "Received our appointment... to" something "Lieutenant in the Navy where he," - this is all personal about his family. Let me see. There's... this man wanted me to come back and marry him but - after his wife died, but I never did. I thought I'd rather be an old maid. "She joins me 01:26:00in love with you, my dear." [Chuckles] I just kept it for sentiment. You don't often get a - have letters from people you almost married [both laugh]. The one that I thought I'd marry, I just couldn't stand to wait around all the time for him.

MK: That was a - this is?

BLT: That's a book that one of my students did, but I thought it was extra nice.

MK: Oh, this is Charles Weidman?

BLT: Yes. You pronounce it Wide-man.

MK: Wide-man.

BLT: See it tells a little bit about him.

MK: Uh-huh. Did you know him personally?

BLT: Oh yeah, mm-hmm. Well, the dancers all knew each other [laughs].

MK: What you - what, you met - do you meet him at Bennington College?

BLT: Yeah, uh-huh. Now that is Mary Wigman, isn't it? I'm sure it is.

MK: Oh yeah, Mary Wigman.

BLT: She's from Germany.

MK: Did you ever meet her?

BLT: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I knew all these people. This is her. All about her.

MK: Oh, that's - Who Was Mary Wigman, by Hanya Holm.

BLT: Mm-hmm. Hanya Holm was one of the dancers too. She was a student of Mary Wigman and... you pronounce it vig, V-I instead of W-I, but...

MK: What kind of classes did you - did - did you take from Hanya Holm or Mary Wigman?

BLT: Both, uh-huh.

MK: Oh really? What kind of classes? What were her classes like?

BLT: Well, I can't remember, but Hanya's were based on the type of thing that 01:28:00Mary Wigman did.

MK: They were?

BLT: And she came to Bennington in the summers and taught. I went back to New York one summer and I think I went to her studio, but I can't remember that too well.

MK: Oh, to Mary Wigman's?

BLT: I don't - mm-hmm. I don't know who that is.

MK: This Ruth St. Denis?

BLT: Oh yeah [laughs]. I didn't even know her, but that... this girl just was putting all the pictures of different dancers in here.

MK: Oh, here's one of Hanya Holm.

BLT: I think I'll give this to the Dance Library in Washington, D.C.

MK: Uh-huh. What was her dance like, Hanya Holm's?

BLT: I can't remember too much. Evidently looked like that [both laugh].

MK: Oh, and here's Doris Humphrey. Did you know her?

BLT: Yeah. Mm-hmm.

MK: How did you know Doris Humphrey?

BLT: Oh, by going to these summer camps. All the - you know, I told you all of them came to Bennington... Vermont and so we got a taste of everybody.

MK: That must've been really exciting.

BLT: Yeah, it was. It was - I went year after year for the six weeks in the summer. And that was really great. Now, who are these? Ted Shawn?

MK: No, this is José Limón.

BLT: Oh yeah.

MK: Did you know him?

BLT: Mm-hmm.

MK: Was he back at Bennington?

BLT: Mm-hmm.

MK: Oh my god.

BLT: Well, that was the whole point of Bennington, was to get all these famous people together and we could eat together in the dining room and we lived in little dormitories. Bennington had little like... apartment houses all scattered 01:30:00around the campus and you were assigned to one of those and then you went to a main - the main lodge for your meals. So we all got acquainted.

MK: Here's Anna... [stumbles]

BLT: Sokolow.

MK: Sokolow Dance Theatre Company.

BLT: I didn't really know her. This girl was just putting everything in the book that she could. I have a - put them in - in a little room in my building in my - on my apartment property that the roof leaks, so some of these things have been kind of, you know, spoiled by rain. Now, this was written by this girl, that Pat Perkins.

MK: One of your students?

BLT: Mm-hmm. But I thought it was excellent.

MK: Yeah. "Rhythm off and on the Beat," huh?

BLT: Who is that? Who's the picture-

MK: By Paul Draper? Let's see. I can't tell who that is.

BLT: Doesn't that say?

MK: No, it doesn't.

BLT: Well, then Draper is probably the dance-no, there it is.

MK: Barrett Gallagher, but that probably-

BLT: But that might be the photographer. This is Paul. This is Paul Draper. I didn't know him. This girl just put a lot of stuff together to - her term paper [laughs]. So most of those - I don't get any credit for that. She just did that [laughs].