Lynne Gray Oral History Interview, May 31, 1987

AUDRA OLIVER:Okay, I saw you were looking at Pendleton programs from the eighties.

LYNNE GRAY: This is the 1982 program, and each year in their program they print their pictures of all the people that are in their hall of fame. And they're people that all the way from top cowboys to people that have made a significant contribution to their rodeo over the years. Well, like this lady here. Her name is Mable Stricklen, and she was married to a competing cowboy. But she rode race horses, and roped steers, and things like that as type...an exhibition type deal. And she was queen of the Roundup in 1927.

AO: Okay

LG: And, let's see. There's an Indian girl by the name of Melissa Par that in 1932, she was the queen of the Roundup and they have a big pageant that they put on every year that they call Happy Canyons. And it's about the settling of the area up there. And they go so far as they have a yoke of oxen that pull a wagon 00:01:00across a stage. Everything that happens, happens. They have people that the actors come up on stage on horseback, and go through turn loose, and they have a deer that walks across the stage, and things like that. And she played Sacajaweya in the Happy Canyons pageant. And she was also...they have a big Indian pow wow up there, too. And they have an American beauty contest up there which is just for American Indian girls. As well as several dance contests. And she was also an American Beauty winner. And then this lady, Alise Dickson, was a publicity agent for the Roundup and she helped with the Indian Beauty, and stuff. And so, they recognize people that make a contribution to their rodeo like that. And, as you can see the men far outnumber the women, but there's still quite a number of women here.

AO: Yeah.

LG: This lady, her name's Eliza Bill. She was...served in the Happy Canyon and the Roundup. It says she served the Roundup and Happy Canyons shows with over 508 consecutive performances.

AO: That's a lot.

LG: Yeah, they put - the Happy Canyon program is the same every year. It's been the same since they started it. I mean it's just, if you've once, you don't need to see it again. But it's a really, really neat production. Anybody that goes to the Roundup should see it.

AO: Okay, it sounds like you've seen it.

LG: Actually, no I haven't, but I have a girlfriend of mine who is from the Pendleton area that rides in Happy Canyon every year. And so, I've heard about it from [unclear]. The last time I was in Pendleton, we were gonna' go see it and some friends of mine that were running race horses on the track up there. 00:03:00They had an accident, and had a horse that got hurt really severely. And so, we were standing around with the horse, waiting for the verdict from the vet rather than going to Happy Canyon.

AO: Yeah, a lot like that comes up.

LG: And it is more of a touristy type thing. So, I don't count myself as a tourist.

AO: You, when you're at rodeos you're more concerned with being the performer

LG: More or less, I am acquainted with or on a very good friendship basis with some many of the contestants that when I go see a rodeo I don't feel like I'm a spectator. I'm more a part of it. And,so it's quite a different thing for me. Not as anybody else.

AO: When we were talking before, you mentioned some of your earliest memories of rodeos being sleeping in the back of a horse trailer.

LG: Well actually, I slept in the front. My parents have a two horse trailer, and when I was just 5 years old or under, there weren't a lot of people that had factory made campers and things like that, that went a lot. And then my parents went to horse shows or rodeos almost every weekend. And I can remember my parents they...we get to the rodeo and my parents would clean out the back of the horse trailer. You know, my mom would always carry a bale of straw. And they'd break the bale of straw, clean straw, and spread it out in the back. And they had two sleeping bags that they zipped together and that was their bedroom. And the front was, which is the saddle compartment. As a 5 year old child, you're pretty small, and my mom would fold under the bottom half of my sleeping bag and that would be my mattress. And the top half, because my feet didn't reach the bottom half, so I didn't need it. And I would sleep cross ways in the front of the horse trailer. And I could sit upright in bed. You know, and there 00:05:00was plenty of room.

AO: Sounds like it was a real adventure.

LG: Oh yeah. It was a lot, there was a lot of families that went the same time. And so there was... We had a lot of family get togethers. My parents' best friends, and their best friends. And we'd camp all together. Cook over gas stoves, and all that fun stuff. But in those days, nobody went, nobody stayed in motels, nobody had ... Boy, the people that had a camper, even with an icebox. You know, and an indoor gas stove. Those people were living pretty high on the hog.

AO: When was this?

LG: This would be mid-sixties.

AO: Okay,

LG: Cuz, by the time my brother was born my parents were pretty well out of it. And my parents, my brother was born in sixty-seven.

AO: Okay, and your parents, I take it, were contesting

LG: Yes, my mom barrel raced in rodeos and game shows, and my father competed in 00:06:00game shows, like Western Horseman of Oregon. See, each year Western Horseman of Oregon, Jim Cana Association which is for, like, barrels, poles, figure eights, stake race, and a few other events. They send their top ten contestants, or top oh, top two in each event to a dual meet with the Washington Game Riders Association and it's called Interstate. And each year the two states compete against each other for the top awards in these two. And it's a lot of fun. My parents competed several years at that. That's...they were, they were rather well respected with their horses. But, when my dad was in high school and just in his early twenties. My dad competed as a calf roper some. In a few rodeos. But he decided he needed to make a living as a farmer more than he needed to do 00:07:00that. Which since then has proven to be an error in judgment. Whoops!

AO: Okay, when did you yourself start competing?

LG: Well, I competed with horses in one way or another starting from the time I was old enough to be in 4-H. I got started showing horses in equitation and pleasure classes. I rode Western and English. I jumped a few horses, and things like that. I didn't really decide I really wanted to make the effort to start barrel racing until my senior year in high school. And then I just went to a few game shows and stuff that first year. And then, my freshman year in college, I joined the National Intercollegiate Rodeo Association. And competed on a rodeo team.

AO: Okay, when was that?

LG: Oh, I graduated from high school in 1979. So it would have been the year 79-80. Was the first year I really started competing.

AO: Okay, so you weren't involved with high school rodeo?

LG: No. This part of this state is just now starting to get a high school 00:08:00program strong enough that kids that aren't just darned sure they want to compete in rodeo. Those kids they'll go out and look for a way to compete. But the kids that, well it would be nice but I don't know how to go about finding out about it. Those kids miss the opportunity because there's not a strong program in this part of the state. I think if it was more recognized by the Sports Association, those kids would have a better chance. Even, even if they didn't get the financial support from the schools which they really don't need. There are ways around that. But since it's not quite so recognized as a sport by a lot of the associations, there's a lot of opportunities missed for kids.

AO: So you started...

LG: I started competing in college. And open rodeos.

AO: Was that here at Oregon State?

LG: No, I was going to Linn Benton Community College, then. We had a rather 00:09:00small rodeo club. But we persevered. But there was about six of us, I think.

AO: Boy, it sounds like you struck some determination here.

LG: Yeah, I got started, and I thought wow, this is a lot of fun. Oh, it's not just one big party like everybody, you know, people think of the stereotype of the cowboy is a dumb guy that likes to chase girls and drink a lot. Well, in college rodeo I have known people that, there was one kid who was working his way through pre-med. That was college rodeoing because he could get a scholarship to Washington State University, and he was pre-med. As soon as he got accepted to med school, I don't know what happened. He quit riding, he went some place to go to med school. There was a kid that my dad knew from Southern California that was going to school down there. He was a good enough bull rider that he was riding on the professional circuit. And that's how he was working his way through vet school down there. He was going to UC Davis. And he worked 00:10:00his way through vet school by riding bulls. So it's there's, sure there's the guys that drink, that do nothing but drink and chase women that compete in rodeo. But there's a lot of very intelligent people that are business people that they treat it as a business.

AO: Right...right. So what you are saying is that the stereotype does not hold up like...

LG: Not...not near like it used to. And oh, the forties and fifties maybe the early sixties it still applied. But now the cowboy has discovered that he can be an athlete too. But these things that the other sports go through for training, they really do help you. And so, a lot of that has come to the surface and really showing itself strongly.

AO: Do you think that's affecting the woman's side of the sport?

LG: Oh, most definitely. Because, women's sports have become much more accepted 00:11:00in other areas. They're becoming stronger in rodeo because of demanding equal time in school sports for women, the women's movement, if you want to call it that, the Women's Pro Rodeo Association no longer approves barrel races at a pro rodeo that don't have the same added money that men's events do. If they have a rodeo that they have had for years. Some of the bigger rodeos have a hard time when we...when the girl's rodeo association started deciding they wanted equal money. Some of the older rodeos, like Cheyenne Frontier Days, that adds $18,000 per event. They had a hard time coming up with a sponsor that they could kick in this kind of money, and so they are having a hard time with them. But they're working at it. Then they keep approving so that they are working at getting more money. No new rodeos are approved without equal money.

AO: Is the girls rodeo... it's the Women's Rodeo Association now isn't it?

LG: Yes.. The official name of the association is the Women's Pro Rodeo Association. And their office...head office is in either Guthrey, Oklahoma or someplace like that.

AO: I know some rodeos don't offer barrel racing, is that...

LG: That's strictly up to the rodeo committee itself. The people that organize the rodeo.

AO: Okay, so the Women's Rodeo Association isn't pushing on that

LG: Oh, they do at the Pro level but a lot of the rodeos around here there are very few Pro rodeos in this area. There are lot of semi-pro or amateur or what we call jack-pot rodeos. Which, the jack-pot rodeos are just everybody pays their entry fees and that's all they divide up is their entry fees. At some of 00:13:00the semi-pro and the pro rodeos, the rodeo committee gets sponsors that say okay, I'll give you a couple hundred dollars or couple thousands or whatever, depending on the size of the rodeo. And that money is put in the pot plus the people's entry fees and then you... so you're running at more money.

Let's see the women's rodeo association is a lot more than just barrel racing. They have bull riding, they have bareback riding, and their bare back...what they call their bareback rigging, which is what they put on the horse, is a lot different than the men's. They, women, are allowed to ride with two hands. And just because most women do not...proportionately don't have the upper body strength that it takes. They have calf roping, they have break away roping, they have team roping, they have goat tying, this, what they call steer undecorating, which if there's a ribbon taped to the back of the steer you have to ride 00:14:00alongside the steer and pull the ribbon off. And a lot of the events that are designed for women are similar to events they have for men. Like in college rodeo, the women's events are barrel racing, breakaway roping, and goat tying. And then the women can compete alongside the men in the team roping event. But the breakaway roping and the goat tying together are a facsimile of the men's calf roping where the man has to rope the calf, get down and tie the calf. While in breakaway roping the girl just has to rope the calf, the horse stops, and then her time stops as soon as the rope breaks away from the saddle horn. And it's tied on with a very light string. And then in goat typing, she runs the horse down the arena, steps off while the horse is running, and then ties the goat, very much like the guy ties the calf. Well in the Women's Pro Rodeo Association, we also have what they call tie down calf roping, which is where 00:15:00the girls get down and throw the calf and tie it too. So it's pretty interesting to watch some of the women

AO: Have you yourself done any of these?

LG: Just the barrel racing and the goat tying. I have some very good friends from Texas that compete in the women's bull riding, and bareback riding. It's a lot stronger down there and in California than it is up here. There are few rodeos that, as an exhibition to draw people, they'll sponsor an event, and they'll get a few girls to show up for it. The girls have to tr...that compete on a regular basis have to travel so far that it's really hard to get them up here, because there's only a few rodeos.

AO: Yeah, you have to sell...that's what I understand. Okay, one thing that you 00:16:00mentioned to me, I think last term or maybe last fall term, is some involvement with the local campus rodeo club.

LG: No

AO: Well, actually I saw you out there, too.

LG: Yes, I have been a member of the Oregon State University Club for the last year, which was my first year on campus, but I have been involved in one way or another, with the Oregon State University rodeo since my senior year in high school because I've...my family has always been involved with rodeo. And my father works for the stock contractor who is the one we get every year for the college rodeo.

AO: Christian...

LG: Yeah, Christianson Brothers out of Roseburg, and right now my dad is in Turlock, California getting ready to set up for a rodeo this next weekend. And, it's...college rodeo is a really neat deal. We have...there are standards the 00:17:00kids have to maintain if they want to compete. They have to maintain at least, you know , just like any other sport, they have to maintain a 2.0 with and pass at least 12 credits. The ones that pass have to have at least a 2.0. Which isn't hard to do, but still at least It's there.

AO: Well, sometimes it can be hard.

LG: Yeah, it depends on the classes you're taking. But it's really neat. It's really hard for the kids at Oregon State, because we don't get a lot of support from the school. And we're lucky if we get four thousand dollars from the school. The rest comes from stuff that the club does. Every year, when we put on a rodeo, our rodeo has a budget of over $10,000. And that money is all stuff that either we put the bill off until the money comes in and juggle things around or we have to raise the money ourselves. And a lot of that money does 00:18:00come in and it goes right back out, gate receipts. But we do a lot of fun fundraisers. This last year we put on a parade that started downtown Corvallis and come up across campus which was a lot of fun.

AO: I seem to notice this year that you didn't, it appeared to me that you didn't get much publicity.

LG: No, publicity is so expensive, any kind. I guess I was just thinking the campus paper would have provided it...Campus paper doesn't do very much for us, it's I think the crew club, and lacrosse club, and the rugby club get a whole lot more recognition than we do. We can't even get something in the sport shorts on the back page of the Barometer about our rodeo club is going to be or rodeo team is going to be at a rodeo this weekend, you know, in Pullman.

AO: Seems strange, this being an agricultural school.

LG: Yeah, it really is surprising. We're working on it, though. The last four or 00:19:00five years the club hasn't really had a lot of people that really want to get out and hustle. We have the people that want to have the social events, but it's a college and Oregon State has a rather young campus. So it's, the kids want to think more about the social events. I think this next year, with the bunch of kids that's going to be involved with the club is gonna' make a lot of changes.

AO: You mentioned that, when was it, 1980, you started riding college rodeo?

LG: Yes, I college rodeoed through three years.

AO: And how many rodeos do you think you've competed in?

LG: Well, just college rodeos, I'd say thirty, cuz our region generally has about 10 rodeos a year. And, the nation for college rodeo is divided up into ten or eleven regions that you compete just within that region, and then the top two 00:20:00people in each event, the top two all around, both men's and women's and the top two men's teams, and top two women's teams from the whole region go to compete at the national college rodeo finals which is held in Bozeman, Montana. And our region takes in Oregon, Washington, and the panhandle of Idaho, from about the Salmon River north. So we have the University of Idaho in our region.

AO: You said "just college rodeos" does that imply that you compete...

LG: Yeah, I have competed in , gosh, I would have no idea to even guess, I've competed in amateur, jackpots, I've gone to Saturday afternoon jackpots that are just nothing but barrel racing, where they'll have a none money winner class for people who are riding young colts that are just starting. A five hundred dollar 00:21:00novice, a thousand dollar novice, an open, you know. And I've competed in jackpot rodeos, I've competed in amateur rodeos, some of the semi pros and I've also ridden in some of the pro rodeos. There's not a big attachment to money for amateur status in rodeo. Rodeo's one of the only sports that the kids can compete in at the high school level, win money, and still have their amateur status for other sports. It's written right into the rule book, because it's such an integral part of the sport Itself that there's no distinction there. On money won and making you a pro versus an amateur.

AO: We talk about that being an integral part of the sport.

LG: It a... well, I mean it's always been a contest. It's never been just a game like football. It's never been just a game, you know, this team goes out, a 00:22:00bunch of kids get together and go...well in the early days of rodeo, it was at the roundups where four or five big ranches would get together to round up their cattle, one rancher would put up a ten dollar prize which in those days was an ungodly amount of money for the man that could ride the best, the toughest bronc, you know. And so it's...there's always been prize money in one way or another, Even if it was just a gold watch goes to the guy with the fastest time or something. There has always been some type of a prize to win. Okay, we were talking too about barrel racing.

AO: Would you like to talk about some of the intricacies of that?

LG: Oh, it's a lot of hours of work. I...the horse I'm riding now when I went to buy, I spent seven months looking for this horse. Going and looking at colts, 00:23:00looking at older horses, just finding the one I wanted, 'cuz it's not just every horse can be a good barrel racing horse. Just like on the show circuit, not every horse can be a good Western Pleasure Horse. There are just things you look for. You want a horse that is fast, you want one that's got a lot of potential to be fast, but you also want a horse that is athletic and can turn and bend and things like that. I found this colt, he was in a barn. These people had racehorses, he was a racehorse for a body. And I brought him home, I had another trainer ride him for a month, because I didn't have time, I was working full-time then. And a colt at that stage needs a lot of hours of riding, and when I brought him home, I herded sheep on him. My parents have a sheep ranch. I herded sheep, I checked fences, I did everything but barrel race him. I just 00:24:00wanted to make sure he was well broke, wasn't going to...because most horses if you push them too soon they get weird. Their minds, they get to thinking too much about running and not enough they don't think, they just run, run, run, and they don't think.

AO: So how old do you want your horse when you start him?

LG: It depends on the horse. It's the physical maturity and mental maturity. This horse was three years old when I bought him, some three year olds they are mentally ready to be pushed into it. And others aren't. I didn't have the time to push him into it. And I really don't think it would have been smart with him. I have ridden three year olds that they were ready to do any, absolutely anything and everything you asked of them, as soon as they knew how to do it. But, other colts just can't take the pressure. There is a lot of pressure, when 00:25:00you get to pushing a horse, to run.

AO: Yeah.

LG: I rode him for a good eighteen months before I started patterning him on the barrels, which is just trotting and walking him around the barrels, making sure he knows how to, what they call give his head, which is they ask him and they turn their head, and bend their body rather than come in behind the barrel and roll back over their hocks and things like that. You want a horse that will bend and run around the barrel instead of turn it.

AO: Let me check the tape, I have a tendency to get nervous about it

LG: Better to be safe than sorry.

AO: Right, Okay, so how long have you worked him now?

LG: I've had him for three years now.

AO: When did you start actually competing on him after...

LG: When he was four years old, I rode him for the first eighteen months, and then the next year, I nominated him for what they call futurity which is 00:26:00strictly for three and four year old colts that have never won any money. They have never done anything. And I entered him in four of them, and you pay in first payment you pay like $40 or $50 and you pay each month; you pay another $25 to keep him eligible. And at the end of the whole thing, you've only paid in like maybe $200. And, their nice contests for just colts. And I went to Wyoming and Utah with him, and took him over there. There are futurities in this area, but I picked a series that they, it was a four futurity series that gave a saddle to the colt that did the best in all four futurities. The four associations got together and purchased this saddle that they would give away to encourage people to enter all four of them.

AO: Sounds like a good idea

LG: It was. It's a really good way to start a colt, because they're running they're competing but they're not competing against older horses that are seasoned. They're just competing against other colts.

AO: How did you do with that?

LG: Well not very good, because that summer I was all set...some of the rules of the futurities they say okay after January 1st of the year that you have are going to run the colt in the futurity you can enter in other things. So some of the futurity colts are more seasoned than others. And I had him at a rodeo, I was working cows with him, and it was in a very restricted alleyway and a man did a rather stupid thing and left a gate...opened a gate to let me through and didn't close it afterwards, and this bull came in the alleyway with us, and he, the bull, big high-horned bull wipes what we call antlers.

AO: By that you mean his horns.

LG: Yeah, and, he hit the colt with his horn, and stuck, the horn in the colt shoulder. The vet couldn't reach the top by sticking his index finger in the hole, could not reach the end of it.

AO: So that's about five inches.

LG: Yeah, and there was afterwards we went out to the corral and looked at the bull and there was blood a good five, six inches up the bull's horn. This bull's horn wasn't sharp on the end, it was tipped. It was flat on the end about the size of a 50-cent piece and he still hurt this colt and it was right here on the shoulder and I was supposed to ride him the next weekend in a rodeo which was obviously out. And we called the vet. The vet came out and cleaned him up and stitched him. It was twenty-eight stitches and there was thirteen or fifteen of them were in the muscle, to put the muscle back together. They'd put a drain in 00:29:00it to keep the fluid draining out of it. My vet could not believe that that colt healed up in twenty-one days. It was really unbelievable how fast he healed up. And so I had another twenty-one days back on him. I was able to ride in 21 days. And then I had another twenty-one days on him before he had to be at his first futurity. So during the very critical time when I should have been doing a lot of schooling and tuning up, I was not able to even ride him.

AO: You were doing more nurse work?

LG: Yes, I was washing the fluid off of his legs so he wouldn't lose all the hair. Because that blood serum will scald them and take the hair off of them. It does.

AO: Do you end up with bald spots?

LG: Yes, the vet that stitched him up did a super job, now this was two years ago, and now even when he's completely shed off in the summertime you can't 00:30:00hardly see the scar.

AO: Great!

LG: Yeah, and so we had a few problems plus that summer I came down with mononucleosis.

AO: So both you and the horse.

LG: Yeah, both the horse and I were under the weather.

AO: Let me turn this over. [tape break]

AO: Now we're back in business

LG: Now those are the breaks. Yeah, those are the things that happen.

AO: So, you not only have your health to look out for but your...animals?

LG: Uh huh, my horse's health, the condition of my saddle, bridles, I have to make sure that none of the leather is rotted or that everything fits him properly. I have to make sure that his teeth are properly looked after. I recently went through a bout with my horse. I couldn't figure out why he would act like the bridle was hurting him, because I checked that bridle and checked it and checked it and checked it and there was no way in heck that it could be 00:31:00hurting him. Well, we finally...male horses of his age generally get what we call their wolf teeth which come in just right in front of their molars. And, sometimes the bit will slip back and hit that tooth and it's just like a baby teething. That thing is very tender. So I took him into the vet and was going to have the vet pull them. Well, he didn't have any. But he had...horses teeth wear funny. He had a big hook on one of his molars that was very sharp. And so I had to...the vet had to reach in a file the tooth off. And we think that we're almost positive that that what's been his problem. You see, I have to have his teeth looked after as well as mine. In fact, he gets his teeth taken care of more often than I get mine taken care of. It only costs him thirty bucks to go visit his dentist. So there is a lot to taking care of it. Plus I have to make 00:32:00sure that my pickup and my horse trailer are in good working order. That...

AO: Yeah, you talk about going from here to Wyoming, that's quite a trip.

LG: Oh, yes and no. After you've ridden...like when I co ...when I started college rodeoing, I felt that...wow...driving to Pendleton, that's a long drive. Now it's , I could do that and back in an afternoon. I mean, I wouldn't think anything of it. Now, to me, going to Southern California would be a long drive. So anything under eight hours is not a long drive any more.

AO: So a trip of eight hours is pretty usual.

LG: Yeah, that would be nothing to me. I've really enjoyed driving, though. I enjoy the trips like that.

AO: What kind of attention do you have to pay to your horse on the road?

LG: Well, when your horse...when you're traveling with your horse, it depends on the horse. Some horses don't travel well, some...if you're on the road for an 00:33:00extended length of time you have to worry about whether your horse is going...will eat. Some horses don't eat well when they're on the road. There are things you can give geldings like a shot...it's a hormone shot called equipois that tends to make them more aggressive eaters, they keep weight on better, and it's easier to keep weight on them when they're traveling. Because there is a lot of stress involved. You have to make sure your horse gets adequate water. Some geldings will not urinate in the horse trailers, so you have to make sure every few hours...that every eight hours or whatever you stop and get them out and you give them a chance. I am lucky, my horse will urinate in the horse trailer and so I don't need to make sure that he has a potty stop.

AO: You just need to clean it out afterwards.

LG: That's...you don't have to clean that out, it goes out on its own.

AO: Oh, okay.

LG: But, I do things like, I give my horse a little something to eat and let him munch in the horse trailer if he wants. You...I wrap my horses legs with what 00:34:00they call track wraps and pads so that if something happens and he moves around in the trailer, he doesn't step on himself and hurt himself. And he's padded if God forbid, I should be in a traffic accident while I'm pulling my horse trailer. He's protected. It's not as much as a safety belt would do for him but it helps. Some horses get tired after standing, and you have to let them out every five to eight hours just to let them walk. Some horses it's just like 'let's go.' They don't care, my horses all haul real well. I don't...anything under eight hours, I don't unload my horse, because my horses all haul well. They can deal with the...it's not a stressful situation for them. They can rest. I've even had my horse go to sleep in the trailer, and you can tell because if something happens and you come up on an extra sharp turn or something, you can tell because all of a sudden the horse kind of falls against one wall of the 00:35:00trailer. They get mesmerized by the oncoming headlights. I have green tinted windows in my horse trailer to help with the glare from the lights for my horse because a horse's eyes are really light sensitive.

AO: So that's one more thing...

LG: Yeah, it's one thing that a lot of people...any color tinted windows will help. I just happen to have green ones.

AO: Any problems about altitude change in horses?

LG: No it doesn't, I suppose if you had a horse that had asthma or something, you know. Horses do get to have problems with things like that. When I was a young child in 4-H, I had a girlfriend of mine whose horse had a heart murmur. So, horses can have the same problems that we do. You have more of a trouble with horses if you if your horse isn't used to traveling and you don't haul feed with you. If you just stop like at a feed store and buy some. With the change in 00:36:00feeds, you are more apt to have colic with your horse. A big change in feed, that's something you have to watch out for.

AO: So you're hauling your own feed all of the time?

LG: Well, not necessarily. It depends on what you are feeding. If you're feeding something that...like 'Purina Om-a-lean' which is a national brand that you can get almost anywhere. Well then, that it's a grain mixture, and you can pick that up at any store. And if you feed alfalfa hay then you can buy a bale of alfalfa here and it is not going to be too much different than a bale of alfalfa that you buy in Arizona other than the alfalfa in Arizona is going to be a whole lot better.

AO: What feeds would it be then that you would be careful...

LG: Well, if you normally feed your horse grass, hay here at home, you wouldn't want to buy a bale of alfalfa someplace else, because alfalfa is a much more nutrition-packed type feed, and you could really make a horse sick.

AO: It's like giving someone a rich meal when they're not used to it?

LG: It's like giving a starving person a cheesecake, you know?

AO: You were talking a while back about the stereotypes, one thing that kind of interests me, is if you, what you've noticed other people's attitudes are?

LG: Well, people think that all cowboys are rednecks that are down on drugs and things like that, and in reality I knew of more cowboys that listened to rock-n-roll music and smoked dope than anything else. It's a really common thing, a lot of cowboys smoke dope. And it's not because they're...it's just because they have such a hard time relaxing, the muscles take such a beating, that a lot of them do it just to relax.

AO: How about attitudes toward you as a woman performer?

LG: I have been more or less one of the guys...they do, if...they treat...there's going to be chauvinists in every corner of the world but they pretty much take you the way you come across. If you're belligerent and yes 1:00 AM equal, then that's fine, be equal. But if you're just very nice that they, quite a lot of them are still very much gentlemen, too. They will most definitely open doors for you, and things like that. But yet, they let you be you.

AO: So you basically, sounds like you're saying you're pretty much accepted

LG: Oh yes, very much so. I have hauled with guys a lot, you know. Guys that aren't my boyfriend, aren't family or anything like that. And they... you know you hoe your own row and carry your own load and that's it. But they do do nice things for you still. So...they pretty much let you , they treat you like you 00:39:00let them.

AO: Okay, it sounds like you feel like you've got some control over how you are perceived...

LG: Oh, yes, very much so. There are all kinds of women around the rodeo. From what we call little buckle bunnies that come around to pick up a cowboy because he's a man, you know.

AO: The Marlboro man perhaps? That concept?

LG: Yeah, you know, he's tough, he's a man. That type attitude, where they want...I have seen...I refuse to call them ladies...women at some of the rodeos they come around and look for the guys that have the championship buckles on. And do their darndest to get those guys. It's really kind of comical, and the guys think it is so funny. "Ya gotta' watch out for her." The next year when 00:40:00they come back, those guys frantically try to avoid this girl, ya know.

AO: Okay, how about the attitudes of outsiders towards the women competitors?

LG: Not so much the barrel racers don't really have so much of a problem with it. A lot of outside people see the women ride bulls and ride bareback horses as being very butch type women. They don't see her as being a lady also. They have a hard time with that. I'm sure a lot of them are really tough, aren't as ladylike as they should be. But they are most definitely women, and I really resent it when people don't see them as such. They see them as men with funny bumps. But there was one girl that went to Oregon State a few years ago, that her sister had been in the past an all-round for the year for the Women's Pro 00:41:00Rodeo Association. And she rode bulls. She's got a family, kids, the whole bit. But, ya know, so it's... There's a lot of difference in attitudes with people. We can go to California and go to some of the rodeos, and you can tell which people are there to watch the rodeo and which people are there to see the rodeo. And it's...

AO: Can you explain that a little bit, about what you mean by "watch" and "see"?

LG: I meant which ones are there and the cowboys and the ones there in town to compete because a lot of people who come to watch the rodeos aren't, I mean, they'll dress the part with their Wranglers versus Levi's, and their cowboy hats and stuff. My mom and dad were at Red Bluff one year, and my mom said she could see it just, it was like a line drawn. The weather was only about 80° or 00:42:00something like that, or 75° or 80°. And all the cowboys who were from out of town were there in their shorts, you know, and their tennis shoes and everything. Well, it was hot to them. And all the people that were from Red Bluff were wearing long sleeved shirts, and things like that. So, you can tell.

AO: The way to spot the competitors from the crowd?

LG: Oh yes! Most of the cow... I know a lot of cowboys who...the only time they wear their boots and hats is when they go in the arena because the rule book says they have to. I almost never wear a cowboy hat unless I'm in the arena. I don't like...it messes my hair up. I just don't like wearing a hat, I'll wear one in the wintertime to keep the rain off my head, but I don't go around wearing my cowboy hat all the time like some people do.

AO: I do find that the...is it all regionally, like someone from maybe Montana would dress differently.

LG: Yes. But, somebody from Montana that was involved in tennis, dresses different than somebody, ya know. There's a lot of difference in what's regionally acceptable. And a lot of that is even in the differences in saddles and bridles. What's fashionable in saddles and bridles is totally different.

AO: You want to talk about some specific competitions that stand out in your mind that you were involved in, any stories?

LG: Well, one thing that we haven't talked about at all is the role of the rodeo queen. And, in the past she has always been just a pretty face, somebody to hand out the buckle. Well, in the last few years, they have been pushing more to her to be more of a goodwill ambassadors, and do a lot more promotions for the sport 00:44:00and stuff. And I have been involved in special local rodeo queen contests. And for the last two years I have competed in the state Miss Rodeo Oregon Pageant which chooses the girl who will represent the state of Oregon at the Miss Rodeo America contest which is held each year at the National Finals. And it is held just before the National Finals in what is called the Beauty and Beast Contest. And they have the Miss Rodeo Oregon Contest and then the Wrangler National Champion Bull Fighting Contest at the same time. So the two are held, one event and then the other. And so it's a really neat program. And that is something that is really important, because they choose a rodeo queen very much like they do any other beauty queen. She has to look good, she has to sound good, and she has to dress good, but she also has to be able to ride good, she has to be able to know rodeo, she has to answer questions. The judges will have all these 00:45:00questions about rodeo, and then maybe draw one out of a hat or they will ask these girls all the same question, things like that. We have to do modeling, all kind of "yuck" stuff. But it's a lot of fun. It's worth it to go through that to represent something you really like.

AO: But you feel it's kind of a tough competition; very uncomfortable?

LG: Not really, it's...when you get into it, it's not really all that bad because you're with other girls that you get close to, it's a con....the Oregon contest takes up, the competition covers 3 or 4 days. And you're being judged almost all the time. So you have to really watch what you do and say. You have to remember to wipe your chin if you dribble something, you know. You don't want judges seeing you with spaghetti sauce on your chin you know. But, it's really good. People's perceptions of the rodeo queens are changing, because they are starting to put more emphasis on a girl being able to be a horseman, being able 00:46:00to ride, and sit on her horse instead of bounce around. Rodeo queens have had a really bad reputation in the years past for not being a real good rider because daddy knows somebody, or being, well shall we say, her morals aren't as upstanding as they could be, you know. So the people's attitudes are changing.

AO: You mentioned that you essentially made a suit for this competition.

LG: Oh yes, I designed my own western wear. I have had the opportunity, I haven't had the time to put together a portfolio to send...go to a western wear market and try and sell them. But the girls in these contests, they don't show 00:47:00up in blue jeans and a western shirt. The girls they are either in formal western attire which consists of a pant suit which is a pants, jacket, and possibly a vest. Color coordinated hat and boots and must wear gloves. Makeup must be to the T. Or she is in a western dress of some type which western dresses they are almost all below, they are all below the knees and mid-calf at least because to be fashionable to wear with a pair of boots this is even a rule of thumb, no matter what, western wear what your skirt needs to either be a mini shirt and a long ways away from your top of your boots or your skirt needs to hit the top of your boots. So that consequentially means that almost all western skirts are below the knee. And it's even when we ride for our competition in riding we do wear Wranglers but they are very new ones, we wear very nice 00:48:00blouses, our hats and boots are always color coordinated.

AO: Is that a rule of thumb, or is that an actual rule?

LG: That is, if you want to win, they had better be. It goes back to appearances. If you want to look nice, you need to be color coordinated. A pair of red boots with a purple blouse just isn't going to cut it.

AO: A little too radical?

LG: Yeah. Just a little too. No I do have a pair of red boots I wear with everything, but I am no longer competing, either, as a barrel...rodeo queen.

AO: So now you figure you wear purple blouses...

LG: I can wear, of course I don't wear purple blouses, purple's not my color.

AO: Sounds like you had a good time?

LG: Oh yeah, I...that's one thing I can say, I cannot remember, other than when my horse got hurt, not having a good time at a rodeo. For me, living in this 00:49:00area, I feel like I'm culturally starved because I don't see too many of my really close friends. I have a few good friends who live in this area, but if I want to see the people I consider myself really close to, I have to go someplace where there's, and not all rodeos, I have to go someplace out of the immediate area to see them. And for me that's like everybody goes down to have a few beers with their friends on Friday night or get together at somebody's house. To me that what that's like. I have to go see my friends.

AO: It's a social occasion?

LG: Uh-huh.

AO: What do you see yourself doing, you mentioned getting your horse ready to compete this, I take it, this spring and summer?

LG: Well, I have hopes of being in Roseburg in three weeks for a rodeo. I don't think I'll make it but I'm hoping. Fourth of July, I plan on being in St. Paul 00:50:00whether I'll make it or not remains to be seen.

AO: So it depends on the condition of you and your horse?

LG: Yeah, well , my work schedule too. I drive farm machinery in the summer. Other rodeos this summer that I want to go to are the weekend of June 27th there's a rodeo in La Grande, Oregon, the next weekend beside, which is the Fourth of July, there's one besides St. Paul there's one in Topinish, Washington. The next weekend we have Prineville and Elgin. Then, oh wow, I didn't find anything for the eighteenth. For the twenty-fifth, we can be in Joseph, Oregon. For the weekend of the thirty-first through the first, we have Newport, Washington or Longview, Washington. I think I'm going to go the Longview this year. The weekend of the eighth is Omak, Washington, eighth of 00:51:00July. And Omak, Washington has a very unique event-at their rodeo, each year they have what they call the Omak suicide race. And it was...they have a big Indian reservation up there, and they have a racecourse which is set up and these horses race all out across this plateau and they hit this cliff that is about like oh a good 45° angle or less. They have to come down that cliff, across the river, race up this dirt road and into the arena and around the arena once.

AO: Do you see yourself partica-... .

LG: No I am not going to compete in the suicide race. In fact, Walt Disney made a movie about it one year. Years ago they had a production, I think it was "Run, Appaloosa Run". And it had to do with the Omak suicide race. And, it's quite the 00:52:00big event. There are people who train year-round for that. They have a big purse for it and everything. But really neat event, it's a lot of excitement. They...sorry to say they have had some horses drown. But, you know, that's no different to me than a race horse at the Belmont or the Kentucky Derby breaking his leg.

AO: Right.

LG: They don't use quite as expensive a horse for that event either. But they do use some really good horses for that. But that's what they're good at. Oh, Moses Lake, Newport, Caldwell, Idaho the weekend of the twenty-second. Bremerton, Washington; Kennewick and Olympia, Washington the twenty-ninth. Then we...September we've got Walla Walla, Ellensburg, Lewiston, there's a rodeo in Filer,Idaho; Othello, Washington; Spokane, Washington; Puyallup, Washington; of 00:53:00course, Pendleton is in there the week of the fifteenth to the nineteenth.

AO: Sounds like you've got a full schedule.

LG: Yeah, I probably won't get to all of...to near all of those. But I keep the schedule if I decide that hmm, I can get away, I look and see when the entries open for that rodeo, and maybe I can get In or... See that's another thing that has helped change the stereotype of the cowboy. They have a national newspaper that comes out every two weeks, that has a listing of every rodeo that is approved by the Association either in the United States or in Canada. Because we have a reciprocal agreement with Canadian Pro Rodeo Association. And there is a central office, the National Office of the Pro Rodeo Association in Colorado Springs. We have a toll-free 800 number that if you want to enter a rodeo, you don't have to dial the secretary in Timbuktu, Arkansas to enter their rodeo. You 00:54:00call this 800 number, they have ten full-time operators that work there. The first thing the operator will say to you, she asks you for your card number, and she'll...they've got a computer system, she puts your card number in the computer and it comes up like if you have an outstanding fine or something like that you haven't paid yet. She'll tell you she can't let you enter until this fine is paid. If it's that serious a matter, or. And then she says okay what can I do for you? And you tell her what rodeo you want to enter. The Association lets you give a preference. First preference I want to be up the night performance on the twenty-third, because you've got that doctor's appointment on the twenty-second to go get that shot. So you want to be up, and then your second preference would be not the twenty-second. So you absolutely couldn't be there on the twenty-second, but you know. . And they put all the names into the 00:55:00computer along with the preferences and the computer spits out who's going to be up what. So they've come a long way from just phoning the rodeo secretary in whatever town and getting in. You have to call this central office. And what they do is every time you enter a rode when you go to pay your entry fees at a rodeo, they tack a five dollar cha on for the use of this computer entry system which they call Pro Call. And there...if you call the business office instead of the entry number you can leave messages for somebody. You can find out how much money somebody has won up to the minute. Things like that. It's a really neat program. It's very...rodeo is big business any more. Well, I think this is the most recent one we have. It was printed May 27th, I'll be getting another one first of June or something like that.

AO: Okay, how long usually, how much ahead do you need to enter a rodeo?

LG: It depends on the rodeo. The bigger the rodeo. Let's see, the Fourth of July rodeos, the St. Paul I need to enter by the...entries open on the seventeenth of June. But, this rodeo in Roseburg which is the nineteenth and twentieth, entries open on the ninth. So it...

AO: It tends to

LG: Generally. Because that gives them time. And when you call in to enter the operator will give you about an eight digit number that you copy down which is what they call your confirmation number. And then she'll tell you, okay call back on such and such a date after two o'clock. And you call back at that time and then they'll be ready to tell you what day you're up, how many bull riders or barrel racers or whatever are entered, and how much your entry fees are going 00:57:00to be. Because both the Women's Pro Rodeo Association, and the Men's Rodeo Association have a sliding scale that takes into account how much money is added and whether it's one or two, how much your entry fees will be. Like, St. Paul which has about $6,200 added, if it's two runs, it's going to be $100 to enter it. If it's only one I think it's like sixty or seventy dollars. So it's...they differentiate there, and they, whether you get one run or two depends okay, like, on a rodeo that has more than $5000 or $6000 added, they almost have...they generally always give you two runs.

AO: That means two chances?

LG: Right. You get to run twice, and they pay off on the basis of the first go around which is everybody first run, on the basis of the second go around which 00:58:00is everybody's second run. And then what they call an average which is actually the fastest total time on two runs. So you have a chance at 3 different chances at a check.

AO: Okay, and so there's no, essentially no qualifying for the...for like a final go around.

LG: That is something totally different. Some rodeos do have what they call a short round which they take the top twenty or top ten it depends on the how big the rodeo is, how many people they take for the final go around. And that they pay off totally different from a rodeo that just has two goes. That gets really complicated figuring out, that's where all our rodeo secretaries, the unsung heroines of the rodeo come in. These girls...most of them are girls or women, they have to be bonded, because you handle such large amounts of money. The 00:59:00rodeo secretary takes in all the entry fees, writes out receipts for that, she has to keep track of scores and times. She has to call the rodeo office, make sure that they know in Colorado, so that they know what's going on. She has to keep what cowboy has drawn what horse or what performance. And then she has to write all the checks when you get all done to make sure everybody gets the money that they actually did win.

AO: Which they all want right away.

LG: Oh, you bet. So rodeo secretary, I would say is probably the most important person at the rodeo. If she's not happy with you, you might as well forget it.

AO: Your check will be late, and you get the horse you don't want.

LG: No, she has no control over that. The judges draw that. The first go around, in fact a lot of rodeos they have the computer draw it in Colorado. The computer 01:00:00takes, they feed in a list of all the cowboys that are entered, they feed in a list of all the horses the stock contractor's bringing, and the computer matches them up.

AO: Ok, so it's basic...

LG: And they have a tel...most of the rodeo secretaries have a teletype link...most of the rodeo offices have a teletype link with the, they put the telephone receiver on this computer deal and it spits out the list of names with the cowboys that are up at that performance and on what they call the rough stock events, which are the bull riding, and the bare back riding, and the saddle bronc riding, it spits out the name of the horse or the bull that that cowboy has drawn.

AO: Great.

LG: So, I mean, that kind of thing is done by computer, it's not, you know, well this guy's my buddy, I'll make sure he gets a good horse, you know. They can't do that.

AO: What constitutes a good horse.

LG: Well, you want a horse...We're talking about...oh, bucking horses.

AO: Yeah, what constitutes a...you didn't want one that went crazy.

LG: No, you want a horse that has a rhythm to the way he bucks. They, what they call jump and kick really high, and a horse that doesn't buck because they put the flank strap on him. That, it does enhance the kicking motion, but horse'll buck whether it was on there or not. In fact, it tends to serve the same purpose as a weightlifter's belt does. I've seen horses actually hurt themselves bucking too hard because they didn't have a flank strap on. It keeps them from overextending their back muscles. But you want a horse that can jump really high and kick and be very rhythmic, be very strong, but not too strong to where he just jerks the riggin' away from the cowboy's hand. You don't want him to be 01:02:00swinging his head around. It's just basically a real rhythmic type thing. It's really pretty to watch a guy that's really good on a really good horse. It kind of just gets really quiet, and everybody watches. It's...and their spurs are not too sharp so that they cut the horse. They're...well like the spurs I've got here on my boots that ride with, you can see how rounded they are. Now a cowboy's spurs that rides are not quite that rounded, but they're dulled like that. They're not sharp.

AO: Thing's nothing sharp about it.

LG: And they don't let them lock 'em, so that the, you know, wire them locked, so that they drag. They have to be able to roll. And a lot of times, if you've got a guy that's got a really good ride, you hear if you're out close to the fence or something and he goes by, you can hear that the wheels turning. And 01:03:00it's really neat. In fact, most...when you go to a rodeo and you see bloody spots on a horse or something more often than not, another horse or a gate or something like that has caught him there. I've seen some of them horses really hurt each other. They're very territorial and they have a very definite peck order just like chickens do. There is a number 1 that nobody bothers that horse, nobody gets near that horse while that horse is eating. And then there's the one that everybody dumps on. Bulls are the same way. You don't want a bull that just goes out there and is mad and wants to fight everybody. You want a bull that will go out and be very rhythmic about the way he bucks.

AO: A little bit predictable...

LG: Well, yes and no. You want...the bull rider needs to be able to know . be able to read what the bull is doing, and most bull riders when they're watching, they'll watch the bull's shoulders instead of his head because he'll swing his head away, but if you watch the bull's shoulders you can generally tell which 01:04:00way he's going to turn. And you don't want one that's going to spin really hard. But a cowboy that's on a bull that spins can make a better score, than a cowboy that just gets on one that just bucks across the arena. And horses, a cowboy that's on a horse that will jump and kick really high in place or come around in a small circle or something will get a higher score than some horse that just kind of goes out across the arena. It just looks nicer. It's a better score. And when the judges give them a score either two judges in the arena, one on either side of the horse as he comes out of the chute. And each judge has a total of 50 points to give, 25 for the horse, and 25 for the way the cowboy rides that horse. So, it's not just 'well, that guy looks all right. Yeah, that's about a 01:05:00$75 ride.' There's a little more to it, and in the last few years judging has become much more standardized. The Wrangler has sponsored a program called The Wrangler Pro Officials which they have guys that are on the...that do nothing but judge rodeos. They are old rodeo cowboys, they have gone through some training. A couple of schools to standardize everything. And, that's all they do is judge rodeos. And, rules in the PRCA rulebook state that if a rodeo has over a certain amount of prize money both of the judges have to be Wrangler Pro Officials. If it's under that but over another amount, one of them has to be. So, there is some continuity in what wins. And the rulebook is probably better than a hundred pages long just on rules on how to enter a rodeo, how to behave 01:06:00at a rodeo. They really get upset with you. They have big, huge fines for a cowboy being drunk in the arena. There's a lot of fines for things like that. They really get upset at you for bouncing checks. All kinds of things like that. There are three pages of rules in the rule book for the humane treatment of livestock, you know. So it's not...unlike everybody worries about them using hot shots and things like that. There's is half...a good half a page of those rules are where you can and cannot use a hot shot. They cannot use one on the horse or the bull's head. It has to be on a fleshy part like on the neck or the shoulder or the hip. And those things really aren't that bad. Some of them are hotter than others. But I've been chased down by them and they're not something I'd go and look for. But they're not that bad. It's not like (sound), you know, you're 01:07:00not going to get fried. And it's actually more dangerous for the horse and the cowboy if the horse what they call 'stalls' in the chute and won't come out. And most of them, they just do that, and they don't like hotshot the horse or the bull to make him mad, you know, so he'll go out.

AO: It's basically, get him out of the chute.

LG: Get him out...to jump-start him If he stalls in the chute. And they really do, they watch them. Of course, you are going to find unscrupulous people that don't quite follow the rules. But on the general rule, the stock contractors pay too much for those animals. The one company my father works for, Christiansen Brothers, they have a bull that, this bull is worth enough that three different people own a part of him. They paid better than $15,000 for him. There was a few 01:08:00years ago, a stud horse that is a saddle bronc, they paid better than $12,000 for him. I know of a couple horses that you couldn't touch them for less than that. A good average bucking horse, if he's good, they can win money on him, he's just a good horse, you probably could pick a decent one for $1,500.

AO: So the stock contractor has a real interest in him.

LG: Oh, yes, they have a very, big interest in how those animals are treated. Sure they'll buy up spoiled saddle horses or something like that to try them out and naturally if those horses can't cut it they aren't going to be saddle horses ever again. They will, they'll sell them for dog food or whatever. But...

AO: That's where they would have gone...

LG: Yeah, they wouldn't have had that chance to live, if they...and I don't 01:09:00know, kind of my attitude there are too many what we call 'dink' horses around anyway. Everybody and their brother figured they wanted to have a stud horse and then they had to breed everybody's mares. And there are a lot of horses around that just aren't very good. Because a good horse will eat, in fact most of the time, will eat less than a bad horse. Because a better-bred horse or a better-taken care of horse can utilize his feed better and doesn't need to be fed as much. And, I don't know, dogs gotta' eat.

AO: You were talking a while back about fines for rule violations. Are any of those different for women than for men.

LG: No. They're pretty much the same. Except for men, at PRCA rodeos can wear 01:10:00blue denim Wranglers. Women, they have a couple different classes of rodeos. At some of the bigger rodeos, you have to wear nice pants, they can't be blue denim. They have to be...they have a ten-dollar fine for not dressing up.

AO: Well, how do you feel about that?

LG: I like it. I think it's kind of funny. At the bigger rodeos, you want to put on a better show for the people that come and pay their $7 or whatever it is at some of the bigger rodeos to come watch. You want to make it look nice. And the guys I can see, they can't dress up they're going to rip those clothes up anyway. At some of the smaller rodeos, they let the girls...the girls can wear their Wrangler denims And that's, and it's generally specified as Wranglers because Wrangler is such a big sponsor of rodeo. They put a lot of money each year into rodeo. And not just pro rodeo. They are a big sponsor of intercollegiate rodeo as well. Ok, I know one thing I was going to ask you.

AO: I understand that PRCA, have I got the initials right?

LG: Yes, Professional Rodeo Cowboys Association.

AO: They do allow women to compete in team roping?

LG: No.

AO: They don't.

LG: That's strictly the men's event. That is in college rodeo that the women can compete in the team roping with the men. And PRCA, it's strictly a men's association. And the women have their own association. A lot of the amateur rodeos, jackpot rodeos, the girls can compete there. And they have the differentiation just because of that. We have our own association we can go to and it doesn't really bother me. And most women it doesn't bother. That's about 01:12:00the only place that we can't. At all the little jackpot...weekend jackpots where you go and do nothing but team rope, and there are a lot of those. The women rope right along with the guys. But then again they always, every now and then, one of them will have a ladies-only roping. Where it's just the girls can get in it, because as a general rule there are not as many good women ropers as there are men. But, boy the ones that are good can whip the socks off of them. The same girlfriend of mine that I college rodeoed with married a world's champion team roper and she team ropes with...right alongside of him when they go to jackpots, and she's, I wouldn't say Bonnie's as good as he is, but...

AO: Sounds like she might be close.

LG: Oh, she doesn't have the drive to compete like he does and so it's...

AO: So, is there anything more that you would like to talk about?

LG: Is there anything I haven't said?

AO: Well, it sounds to me like we were talking about your plans for the summer. sound's like you intend to continue competing for...

LG: Oh, it's something, barrel racing in particular is an event that women can continue to compete at until they are past grandmother age. There was one lady that a few years, well she's still competing very heavily Her name...she's from Wells, Nevada, I'm not sure, she's from Nevada someplace. Her name is Wanda Cagliari, and she didn't qualify for the national finals until she was...on a par with some grandmothers. In fact I might have it, be able to tell you. And then there's the other extreme like little girls like Charmaine James who wins her first world's championship when she's only 16.

AO: Kind of disgusting.

LG: No, not really. It's kind of frustrating, here we work really hard. And I'm an old lady here at 25 I still haven't got to the national finals, and Charmaine wins a world's title. But, she's worked at it, she's got a good horse, and her parents were willing to haul her, and she continues, she's still in high school and she continued with her high school studies. She did a lot of it on the road on her own. But she is still in high school and she keeps up with her studies. Nope she's not listed in here. This is a top fifteen barrel racers at this moment. The number one barrel racer right now is Charmaine James from Clayton, New Mexico, has won $41,744.

AO: So far this year?

LG: Yeah, as of 19 of May. Last year Charmaine James won over $100,000 by the time she got done at the National Finals Rodeo.

AO: Yeah, her expenses were probably pretty high.

LG: Oh, yes. You probably, I would be willing to bet that, it's a pretty safe bet, that she ends up trading in her pickup and getting a new truck every year just because of the miles and stuff you put on them. A lot of gas...at $1 a gallon or even at 75 cents a gallon you can run a lot of gas through a pickup.

AO: How much does it cost you to go to...

LG: Well, let me think, when I went to Milton-Freewater in April. I went up there to barrel race. It's just up north of Pendleton, I spent eighty bucks on gas. And that counted filling my tanks up before I left town. I would have had to buy that gas if I just stayed in town.

AO: But you used it all.

LG: Um-hum. I bought a motel room while we were up there, and you know, you have to eat. Because if you put a camper on your pickup or if you haul your trailer 01:16:00with a motor home, it's going to use more gas, so it's kind of a trade-off. Do you want to live...you want some place you can go sit in, have a meal anytime you want or do you want the mileage. It's...you really got to make up your mind, there. There's...you have to make sure your horse has all its shots before you can haul him. There's a lot of expenses involved in hauling.

AO: Sounds like a minimum of $100 beyond your entry fee?

LG: If it's within five hours of home. When I went to Bozeman, Montana, a few years ago for the...I went up there, I was competing in the National Miss College Rodeo Contest. I represented Linn-Benton Community College up there. I spent...it cost me $300 in gas to go there and back. It's about half way across Montana.

AO: Yeah, I went to school in Bozeman.

LG: Oh, yes, so that's not cheap.

AO: No, it's not.

LG: But, that's not bad to go round trip for going that far. It all depends on your outlook in life, I guess. Then there's the people who don't think anything of paying $300 for a plane ticket to go someplace. Yeah, it's okay if it's their money.

AO: Oh, well, I think you've covered pretty much what I...

LG: Not for the life of me, can I think of...if anybody is interested in more information about rodeo and stuff, the place to contact would probably be the Pro Rodeo Hall of Champions in Colorado Springs, Colorado. And that address plus 01:18:00a zip code which they can get from a post office would probably be enough address to get it there.