Carol Menken-Schaudt Oral History Interview, February 4, 2010

AD: Carol I would like to begin by thanking you for agreeing to meet with us and taking the time to be part of our life history project for the Oregon State University Archives. This interview will be digitally recorded and a full transcription of the interview will be done and submitted to the University Archives. The documents of this interview will become part of the Voices of Oregon State University Oral History Collection. Feel free to elaborate as much as you wish on any of the questions that will be focusing on. If at any point during our discussion you feel uncomfortable about any question please tell me and we will go onto another question.

We are interviewing Carol Jean Menken-Schaudt. The interviewers are Erica Woekel, Andrea Doyle and Rebecca Hamner. The date is February 4, 2010 we are at Oregon State University in Langton Hall Room 223. Um--We currently have your date and place of birth as Albany, Oregon November 23, 1957.

CMS: That's correct

AD: Okay and can we ask where do you current live?

CMS: I live in Philomath, Oregon. In case anyone wants to send me a card or say hi.

AD: Thank you (laughter).

We also have done that your marital status is to Husband ken

CMS: Yes.

AD: And when did you get married?

CMS: Um, August 21, 1982.

AD: Okay (pause) and than that you have two children?

CMS: Two children

AD: Can you elaborate?

CMS: Two adult children.

AD: Adult children.

CMS: My son Brian is just turned 20. Um, he is a sophomore at another state university not far from here.

AD: Ah.

CMS: Um. And then my daughter is 18 and she is a high school senior at Philomath high school and soon to be an incoming freshmen at Oregon State University.

AD: Ah nice, very nice.

EW: Cool.

AD: Alright thank you and what is your present occupation?

CMS: I work for, um, Hope 107.9 Radio which is a local Christian contemporary music station out of Albany. And I work in Advertising sales so I work with local businesses on developing their marketing campaigns.

AD: Very interesting and what were your years here at OSU?

CMS: Ah I arrived in 1978 and finished my um basketball career in '81 and then returned later um and graduated in '85.

AD: Okay. Alright so the way we designed this is to kind of go through three different views in your life. So I am going to begin and ask about your early life.

CMS: Okay.

AD: When did you first start playing basketball as a kid?

CMS: You know, I didn't really play that much basketball as a kid and that's what's very interested about as I ah looked over some of the content is um I started to uh recognize that I am going to be very A typical of uh um a female 00:03:00athlete, Olympic athlete, a uh college athlete because um I didn't do a lot of things that most people are gonna be be talking about so for me it was very eye opening and really stressed to me the sort of God's providence in my life and how he's in spite of my background, you know, has brought me to a certain place so to answer your questions I didn't wasn't really involved in sports as a kid. Uh and I grew up in Jefferson which is a very small school and in the early 70s, I graduated in '75, there wasn't a lot going on in girls sports at that time and so we didn't always have a girls basketball team. And when we did it was more of 00:04:00on a PE level class kind of like you know we are going to learn the rules, uh you know you can't be in the key for more than three seconds, um you can't you know you can't, what traveling is, ah you know, so it wasn't advanced at all and you know it wasn't a big part of my life. So, you know, that's the first thing, you know, I didn't play much as a kid.

AD: Understand, um I was wondering if your parents played any sports?

CMS: Neither one of them were active at all in sports. My dad I think avoided basketball, he was 6'8" and of course was always being asked if he played basketball and I think he sort of resisted to that so either of my parents, although my grandmother on my mother's side um somehow pulled out a picture of her, a team picture, basketball team picture in 1930 so she takes all the credit 00:05:00for my um basketball success.

EW: Did you do any other activities like piano or--

CMS: No

EW: Just played.

CMS: Kind of just, uh you know, hung out.

EW: Yeah

CMS: Hung out, had two friends and (laughter) we kind of supported one another cause we were kinda you know not really the in crowd. And so we kind of just hung out together, kept each other from getting lonely (laughter).

AD: Do you have siblings?

CMS: Yes I have uh I have ah an older brother, ah younger brother and a younger sister.

AD: Were they influential at all in your involvement in basketball once you did start playing?

CMS: Uh influential?

AD: Did they um encourage or discourage or..?

CMS: Um. No I don't think that there was much influence as far as my younger brother and younger sister uh weren't involved in sports at all. My older 00:06:00brother did play basketball in high school uh when he was eligible, academically eligible, and so that was kind of spotty (laughter). But, um, we weren't really an athletic family. We didn't go to sporting events um we didn't watch a lot on TV cause if that was the influence I would be a boxer today cause my dad liked boxing so you know we was just watching boxing matches and auto racing. Um, but not really anything in basketball.

AD: Uh huh. Interesting, thank you. Um, I guess that answers some of my questions.

CMS: (cough).

AD: Were there-- (pause). When you did start playing did you feel that there were any social barriers or academic or economic barriers to your continuation 00:07:00in sports?

CMS: Um, well when if I look at from high school we are talking about from high school um the limitation would have been the lack of opportunity to play in college cause there just wasn't that much going on at that time. I graduated from high school in '75 um and I went to Linn Benton Community College because of their graphic arts program and I didn't go there to play basketball. In fact they didn't have a women's basketball team when I arrived. Fortunately, um I stayed for three years rather than the two and by the time I got out of there they started up a women's basketball team, so that's where I started to play more organized um basketball. So um I think uh (pause) just having the opportunity there was not much opportunity and so again in God's provenience I ended up in a place where they started up a team and I started playing. Um but 00:08:00there wasn't a lot coming out of high school that was available. Coming out of college than after grad--finishing up my eligibility at Oregon State um interestingly enough there was again no opportunity there was no women's pro league to continue to play uh basketball in the United States and interestingly enough my plan had to been after my senior year was to just hang up my basketball shoes and wow hasn't this been fun. And you know I had no intention on having the basketball continue, I just thought it paid for my school, I mean how fabulous was that.

EW: Uh huh

CMS: And you know I and I grew so much and I changed so much and you know my time at Oregon State really changed who I was and so it had great impact on me 00:09:00just for that, so I was happy with just having that and then um the summer after my senior year at Oregon State I uh had the opportunity to play for the United states uh national team for the first time. And it was during the summer cause I thought that was my big you know big finally you know playing for the national team in 1981 and uh and than during the summer I was contacted by an agent out of Los Angeles who told me that the Italian league, women's league in Italy had opened up its league to have foreigners play in it. Which they have been doing for a long time with the men's league and now they had just that year coincidentally you know had just that year opened up the women's league for um for female players. There were sixteen teams in the league so that's one player per team, one foreigner per team and so that is 16 opportunities for players to 00:10:00advance out of college and go some place and play sort of semi-pro and there was a team that was interested in having me come play and they had contacted him. And so that opened the door then for me to continue playing. You know so that again was just the amazing opportunity that opened up in front of me.

AD: Very Nice

CMS: Was that the question? I don't know.

(Laughter)

AD: Very good answer, you said that you were going to LBCC for graphic design.

CMS: Mm hmm.

AD: What type of part time work did you do?

CMS: I worked at a um office/art supply store in Albany called Doodle Pots and I worked for Mr. Pots (laughter) who bought the store from Mr. Doodle, Doodle, and they ran an office supply art supply store and I worked there my senior year of high school and then into college working there as a clerk.

AD: How did that impact your, um, studies as a student and also as an athlete?

CMS: Well again my first two years at Linn Benton I wasn't doing basketball.

AD: Okay.

CMS: So I was just working um putting myself through school cause that was you know that was one thing my whole environment as far as um you know pushing the kids to a certain direction or into sports or into college, my folks pretty much took a neutral stance on everything. Umm they didn't want to push their kids you know in school because neither one of them liked school so they completed understood if they could just get us through high school they were happy that. You know and so the idea of going to college was not something that was stressed with my parents. The idea of playing sports was not something um stressed, I 00:12:00mean they wouldn't drive me to you know practices I would have to get my own ride. (Laughter) And they didn't come to the games because they didn't want to push you know, they took a very hands off approach in all of that. So when I went to college I was paying for my own way and so I was working uh and leaving on my own and uh paying for schooling. When the opportunity came up to play basketball at Linn Benton I kind of had to weight it a little bit okay do I want to try out for this new basketball team um and understand that I have been out of high school for two years and have not even shot a basketball in two years I mean it's not like I've been out playing in a parking lot. So do I you know is this an interesting enough opportunity for me to um put the time into it when I am already working and you know going to school and uh and I actually just out 00:13:00of ignorance cause I didn't think it would take up that much time so I said yes can't take that much time, you know like practice for a couple hours a day, I can do that. And so that is how I ended up on the basketball team and I, I, I, made the team because for one thing I was 6'4", you know, the early 70s in community college there aren't that many of us (Laughter). Ah, cause there were only seven of us at the tryouts so we all made the team and a so that's how we started the first basketball team there. Um uh, what was the question?

AD: That was good, explaining about your life as a student athlete--

CMS: Okay yeah, yeah so it all fit in, you know made it, made it work.

AD: Um, I am wondering if you will please talk about maybe some fears, or anxieties or excitements making that transition from LBCC to OSU?

CMS: Uh huh, I don't think I knew enough to be afraid, uh I just sort of, the opportunity had opened up for me to come to Oregon State and they were offering to pay for my tuition. And you know, who would turn that done and so um I came just because of that and I think being a part of a team, a collegiate team, an inter-collegiate uh team that there's something about being a part of that group that takes a lot of the scariness away because you're a family. You have support, you have somebody that is saying, you know you really need to go down and file, you know go do this. Somebody is watching out for you, they are watching to make sure your grades don't slip, they are watching to make sure 00:15:00your tuition is paid and you know and so there are all of these things that are part of being a collegiate athlete that you, your part of this support group and that's huge. Um I think a huge advantage for student's athletes over just an individual that's just coming to a big university and they are all on their own and they don't have a support system or a group of friends or things and they have to find their own way. And so um that takes a lot of the anxiety and the fear is because I am basically showing up and someone else is going to help me. So you know, show me how to do this and so.

AD: That's great. Um you talked a little about the lack of opportunity you know when you were in high school and community college. We know this was about the time title IX was going on.

CMS: Right.

AD: Um the mandatory compliance for that.

CMS: Right.

AD: Do you want to explain a little bit more about how maybe you saw a difference once you got to college or once you got to OSU?

CMS: Yeah I wasn't very aware of all this going on. And um I haven't done a whole lot of research expect that someone kid of clued me in on how um how scholarships were actually starting to be given to, to women athletes and I didn't know this until many years later um when I was given a partial scholarship my first year at Oregon State I had always assumed that when I have talked to people about that I had always assumed that they only thought I was worth a partial scholarship when I got here. Then I learned how to play basketball and then they increased it to a full ride scholarship. Uh, that then I was talking to Silvia Moore who was they women's athlete director at that time 00:17:00and she explained to me when she heard me tell that story one time that she came up and said you should know that you're actually only the second female athlete at Oregon State to receive a scholarship for athletics. So it was that new, it was that brand new and it between and then and I don't know how many scholarships were being offered by the time after I left after my three years here but certainly there was huge strides in those first few years as far as offering um athletic scholarships to a woman athlete and giving opportunities for education through sports which had not been prior to the years I was here.

AD: Okay, thank you.

EW: So I am going to kind of talk about OSU life and you said you went to LBCC, what was that process to play basketball at LBCC then did OSU recruit you or how did that-- CMS: You would think they would have recruited (laughter) so I am in 00:18:00at Linn Benton Community College and my coach there Dave Dangler who actually was the baseball coach and somehow they talked him into um being a women's basketball coach uh and so he was the first coach at Linn Benton Community College. Somehow he got the idea that I might be able to play at a four year school. So he's the first one that approached me with the idea of seeing if I could get a scholarship because quiet honestly the whole concept of a female athlete receiving an athletic scholarship was, when I heard something talk about that in high school I laughed, I thought it was funny like you know why would they do that you know. And so he had actually you know got in his brain that I might be about to play at a four year school. And so he told me that I should go 00:19:00over to Oregon State because it's just down the road.

EW: Right.

CMS: --and also they had a terrible women's basketball team at the time and thought that I could, he thought that I could maybe play. So made an appointment with Mary Covington who was the coach at Oregon State and came over here and um just simply said you know what's, what's the you know, what's the program here, do you need some players, I mean can play for you, do you have any scholarship money you know that is available, is that a possibility. And she was not that optimistic actually, she didn't and now I know why because nobody was giving out women's you know women's scholarships. And so um uh it was after my conversation with here she was going to look into it and then I actually received a letter of intent with a scholarship offer for just tuition fees which I thought was 00:20:00fabulous and um and the cover letter on that from Mary Covington was also explaining she had resigned as the coach and because she wasn't confident of the universities support of the women's basketball program. And so I have this offer (laughter) and quiet honestly the main thing for me was they would pay for my school so I really didn't care about the universities support of the women's basketball program (laughter), you know I was looking at somebody paying my tuition and I was going to get to go to school and get it paid for. And so I signed and that's how I was recruited to Oregon State (laughter).

EW: That's cool, and then you left in '81 did you say?

CMS: Yes

EW: Okay and then came back actually and finished in '85?

CMS: Finished yes.

EW: What was your degree?

CMS: Broadcast communications.

EW: Cool. And then, um, what was your most memorable moment here, if you could narrow it to one?

CMS: You know I can't even narrow it to several. My three years at Oregon State were so transforming. Honestly from the, from who I was from when I arrived here to who I was when I left here is a completely different person. In, in so many aspects so I cannot, I was trying to think of memorable moments but none of them, you know it's not a moment it's a process. It's a transformation process that happened from being this tall geeky kid in high school that nobody wanted 00:22:00to have lunch with um to being someone to somebody that people who would come up to and say, 'hey good game and that was awesome, you're a great player.' I have never been great at anything, so you know, there was this huge transformation for me um in finding something that I was good at, and really excelling at a high level at this that gave me huge confidence to move forward into, you know, all other aspects.

EW: That transformation must have taken a lot of work to right, so--

CMS: Yeah but I didn't know any different you know I didn't know um that it was work they were paying for my school so I am obliged to do anything they tell me, you know so I would have put in, if the coach says stay after we are working on shooting of course I am going to do they pay for my school (laughter), you know 00:23:00and I was getting constant reinforcement uh on my improvement because I was improving so fast. That's the benefit to not having played prior to is I didn't have any bad habits I was just you know I was j just kind of clay. And so I improved really quickly so when you start getting positive feedback for the efforts you are putting in it just wants to make you know put in more effort and get even better and so that was what I was experiencing. I was experiencing a tremendous amount of reinforcement for uh the improvements I was making and I was uh I was really good at something. You know and that, that feels great.

AD: So empowering

EW: So you came not knowing who your coach was, you signed the letter not knowing who your coach was--

CMS: Right.

EW: When did find out who your coach was going to be?

CMS: They hired Aki that summer before I got here and this was Aki Hill's first collegiate job in the United States. Um, she had only been in the United States for a few years, she had been a volunteer assistant at UCLA, um, coaching under John Wooden and so she came to the United States with her husband. Her husband is an American and she, he married her and brought her here to the United States because her dream was to become a collegiate basketball coach. And, you know, so she spent three years, um, learning how to you know to coach from the best.

EW: Uh-huh.

CMS: She had coached in Japan; she was a high school boys basketball coach in Japan which at that time in that culture for a female to coach high school boys is incredible. So that's the caliber of you know of her coach she was accepted to do that. She came here, Oregon State was her first um collegiate job um and I couldn't understand a word she said when she (laughter) you know she had strong broken English accent you know Japanese accent. And I had met her the summer, someone had suggested because of my lack of basketball experience that I should sign up and go to Ralph Miller Basketball Camp. I uh never even heard of a basketball camp, the only camp I had ever been to was church camp where you go out in the woods. Right and so shocking to me they have camp right in town. And 00:26:00so I signed up for basketball camp and I believe I was the only, uh, twenty year old in camp that year. Uh, so that is where I met Aki, she was one of the coach's at the basketball camp and it was kind of specifically set up so she could work with you know with me and pay attention a little bit more to me. So that is where I first met her and that is where I first learned that I didn't know how to run and that she would have to teach me to run because what I was doing was not running cause what I was doing was jogging (laughter). And that I was going to need to learn how to shoot and so she was going to have to start over from scratch and we were going to have to learn how to do I mean everything. She was going to have to start from scratch and teach me how to do everything but you know I am 6'4" and there's not that many of us and you know 00:27:00in the country at that time so it was worth the investment. So she spent a lot of time working with me from that and into the first year uh we spent a lot of time together.

EW: Did you see her um her philosophy, if it was her philosophy kind of for basketball especially if she was under John Wooden?

CMS: Yes, um, Aki was uh an excellent teacher of the game of basketball and I would not have become a basketball player had I not, uh, been under that type of uh teaching because I needed someone to teach me the fundamentals of how to play basketball uh and again its one of those providential, (mimics music) 'do do do do,' (Twilight zone theme, laughter), I just get here the same year they higher her you know the Italian league opens up the year I graduate. You know it's like 00:28:00you know they start a basketball team in Linn Benton the year I am there, you know it's just this amazing journey that had been laid out were doors just opened up and I just walked through, I mean I worked hard, but I just walked through them and so because Aki got there and she had inherited this team of, you know, I think there just was a bunch of us on campus. And she had to make a team out of it and I was the biggest asset she had at the time so she had to make me into a basketball player and the whole offense was designed to getting the ball to me. That's why I scored tons of points is because that was the design of the offense (laughter), you know they were to get it to me. So--

EW: Um, so what was the typical day in the life of you, as a college athlete?

CMS: Busy, but I don't think it is as busy as the day in the life of a college athlete today (emphasis) because there is a lot oh uhh I mean I think it was not until my senior year that we got the idea that maybe we should be doing a weight training program. And now, everybody's --you have got your weight training time your technical time, you know with your team together working out and stuff. You've got all kinds of things. It's a lot more time consuming today to be a college athlete than when it was when I was. My son is a college athlete at the U of O. He is on their track team and the amount of time that he dedicates to 00:29:00being a collegiate athlete is probably at least double what I had when I was here. You know, with school, with travel, and with practice times and things, there wasn't extra time. I mean there was always things to do that had to do with one of those things.

EW: What was the culture of basketball here? We looked at yearbooks and we just kind of were getting a feel. What was it like?

CMS: Well the huge thing that was going on was the men's basketball team. The men were in the top of the nation. They had players on the team that were getting press in sports illustrated and things. So, they were packing out Gill 00:30:00Coliseum every time they played. In fact, the system at that time was they had the whole student section and first come first serve and so you actually had people camping out in line for days prior to um the opening the gate so that they could get in and get a seat to watch the men's basketball game. Women's basketball was a little different. We had lots of seating available for our games. But there was a lot of basketball mania going on. There was a lot of excitement around the men's team. The men's team was very supportive of the women's basketball program.

You know, Ralph Miller--actually I was one time in there doing some shooting stuff and he walked through and he with his cigarette (laughs) in the building (laughter) smoking. I mean he would smoke on the bench during practice. He 00:31:00walked with his cigarette and I knew he liked me because he said 'So who do you think you are? God's gift to the no backboard shot?' I took that with the affection that was intended (laughter) and uh so started working on my backboard shot. But you know, he was supportive of the women's basketball program. The guys on the team even though they were top in the nation and getting you know, they were very supportive and friendly towards the women's basketball team.

I remember we were allowed for some reason to have spring practices and they weren't . Because of I don't know what that was about but um they used to come and practice with us. A couple of the guards on the men's team, they would come and do drills just for their own conditioning and practicing and stuff. And they 00:32:00would do things like play with their arms behind their backs, do all the defense with their arms around the back so they could work on their game and we still couldn't get around them (laughter). But there was a big group relationship between the teams. When I first got here we actually--it was in transition, women's basketball. I think women's sports in general. We had no offices at Gill Coliseum. The women's basketball office was in the women's building. I think not far prior to my arriving here that's where the games were played. That's where the practices were. We didn't have Gill Coliseum time. That was starting to change when I got here in that we actually got to practice at Gill. And that was I guess kind of a big deal but it had been that way since I had been here so I am not used to you know before that they used to practice at the women's 00:33:00building. But Aki Hill's office, when I first arrived, was in the women's building that it looked like a little closet. I mean it was (emphasis) a tiny little office. It was, and then it had just this little area right outside the office, that is where the assistant coach was (laughs), and so there was the two of them in something that's quite frankly not as big as my walk-in closet today. I mean it's not even as big as my walk-in closet today. So it was, you know, a tiny little facility. Then, while I was here they made the transition and moved the offices to Gill Coliseum. We had practice time at Gill Coliseum although it was still a bad time around the men's practice. The men had the premium time that they owned and they kept and we would either go before them and after them and it was later when they started doing the alternating times so that you could both have times that would work for you.

EW: Very cool. Um, what was it like to be a rookie and rookie on the OSU team even though--

CMS: Yeah

EW: Yeah, not really, but umm earn the most valuable player?

CMS: Um I don't know what that is. Most valuable player?

EW: For women's basketball

CMS: At Oregon state?

EW: Yeah, that's what we read.

CMS: Its not something that really registered at all because that's what I was expected. I mean like that was the role I was to play was to score points and that's what the design of the offense was. It wasn't about me. It was about 00:35:00what's the most effective way we can play to score points and try to win so that was my job, and so it really wasn't so much about you know personal accomplishment or you know honors you know or anything like that it was just 00:36:00like this was what we had to work with so let's make the best of what we have so that was the strategy.

EW: That's a winning philosophy for sure--cool.

CMS: Yeah, yeah.

EW: Umm, maybe this is more in hindsight but how do you feel now for still holding all those records for OSU?

CMS: Yeah my name is on there--

EW: Scoring, field goals, rebounds--

CMS: Yeah I think somebody actually took the career scoring title. Um, but I still have quite a bit up there. And it's nice (laughs), it is. It's nice to still, I mean its been 30 years and it's nice to still have your name on there and to be remembered. I mean, wouldn't you like to be remembered for something 00:37:00in 30 years? I mean it's just nice. It's nice

AD: Have you visited the women's locker room any time recently?

CMS: Not recently, no

AD: I know they had a big remodel

CMS: No, I haven't since they got the remodel. We didn't have a locker room per se. We had the visiting men's football locker room. It doubled as the women's locker room for all sports so you didn't have lockers you kept your stuff in. I mean they didn't fix up the visiting locker room very well (laughter) and it kind of smelled bad after the home games and things, but that was the locker room that was the women's sports locker room all combined and we all shared it and you just didn't go down there on football weekends because it was being occupied.

EW: And we talked about the team being kind of like a family. Do you still keep any connections with any team members?

CMS: I have always been very bad about that. Uh, but the new phenomena that's happening that's helping with this is facebook. So, we are starting to find each other and I found several of my teammates from Italy.

EW: Nice

CMS: And you know that's fairly new. I mean I am kind of a late adapter to all this (laughter). So I'm having great fun with that and it sort of just spreads and you find one and then they know a couple and yes, so we're having kind of fun with that and you get on and you can see what their kids look like and what they are doing.

EW: Cool. Well I'll turn it over to Rebecca.

RH: All right, I'll ask a few questions about I guess after Oregon State, after your basketball career for Oregon state. Now, you played for the U.S. women's basketball team and were in the 1984 summer Olympics correct?

CMS: Yes

RH: Can you tell us a little bit about that and things you remember?

CMS: Yes. First of all, being on the Olympic team had never been a goal of mine. Because of the, you know, what we talked about in high school and the sports not being very big. It wasn't like I had my eyes set on I really want to be an Olympic basketball player and when I got to college I had tried out for the '80 team actually--

RH: Right

CMS: --because that was right before my senior year. I didn't make it. And then they boycotted but uhh that really was what I thought was the last shot because 00:40:00at that time I had no idea that I would continue to play basketball and so the opportunity in '81 was going to be my last "hoorah" in basketball and it was only because of the opportunity to go overseas that I was able to continue to play. And I actually didn't even try out for the national team in '82 because I was getting married and I had a wedding to plan (laughter) and you know, who thought this basketball thing would last this long? So, I kind of thought I am tapering down.

Now, I would play a year in Italy or do something and taper out. The fact that I was still playing in '83 you know I thought heck ill try out for the national team again and I made the team in '83 which automatically got me invited to tryouts in '84 for the Olympic team. So that's how I got to the tryouts in '84 00:41:00was by being a member of the '83 World Universities game team. And, it actually got me to the final stage of the tryouts. They had a bad time. They were having open tryouts and so actually any female athlete in the United States who was playing basketball at that time could come and tryout for the Olympic team. So you would have oh I don't know how many people, if you gave an open invitation like that now (laughs) but at the time you had a couple hundred show up and tryout.

So, of the couple of hundred people, girls that came to try out for the '84 Olympic team they would do a first phase of tryouts with them and then they would cut those and then they would take the finalist of those and put them with the people who had played the summer before. There were two teams the summer before: the Pan-American team and then the World Universities game, an "A" team 00:42:00and a "B" team. I was on the "B" team. They would take all of those girls and they would put them into the finals along with the, get this, 5 girls who made it out of the open tryouts (laughter). It was brutal (more laughter). It was brutal, just brutal. And, so those 5 got put with the other two teams and then we started tryouts all again and so there would have been maybe 30, 34 something like that total people for the tryouts.

RH: Okay and when you played on the team did you receive a lot of playing time or were you?

CMS: I was not, in fact, I was one of the barely made it in players.

RH: Okay.

CMS: And in the tryouts they got to the place where they had gone. I don't know 00:43:00if it was two weeks, three weeks, a couple of weeks? And they narrowed it down by the end of that time to 16 players and I was in the 16, obviously. Then, they needed to cut it down to 12 and they couldn't, the selection committee, they couldn't make a final decision. They couldn't figure out the final four players to cut. So, they sent us home. They sent all 16 of us home for a couple of weeks and then they were going to bring us all back for another phase of tryouts. This was the most stressful part of the entire Olympic experience was my two weeks homes because I knew I was on the bubble. I was one of the 16 but I was one that was walking the line. They had in that 16, there were five players with my position.

RH: Oh wow.

CMS: There was Anne Donovan, 6 foot 8, starting center for the U.S. National team for the last I don't know (pause) 8 years, 6 years? So, she pretty much I think she's probably got it. Then there's uh oh (long pause) Cindy Noble, 6'5" like myself, very similar style player to me. Tall, low post kind of player, played for the University of Tennessee and oh by the way, did I mention the coach of the U.S. Olympic team in '84 had head Coach Seven from University of Tennessee? Got a good chance of making the team I think. Then there were two 00:45:00players at 6'3". Pam McGee from USC and Janice Lawrence from Louisiana Tech. Both more versatile players than me, kind of high post/low post players, can drive to the basket, you know more versatile, and 6'3" and then there was me. So there were five of us and I am figuring out of 12 players somebody of the five has got to go and I am the one who is the problem because I was having a very good tryout and I am doing well in the tryout and I think because of that they really can't justify cutting me. This is my thinking. It would make it much easier if they could and so I was one of the problem people which is the reason why they can't narrow it down from 16 to 12 and going home I knew this and then I got to come back for the second phase of tryouts. It was a stressful time. I 00:46:00battled with myself. I sort of recognized that I was doing this, but part of me wanted to give up.

EW: Yeah.

CMS: Part of me wanted me not to do my best because what if I invested all of this and tried my absolute hardest and it wasn't good enough?

EW: Uh huh.

CMS: You know, that means I am not good enough. (Pause) But if I don't try as hard I could always say....and this is not cognitive, you don't think this really until you reflect back, 'Why am I feeling this way?'

EW: Yeah.

CMS: and you know, I can always say, 'You know I just didn't have a good tryout....I'm better than that, but I just didn't have a good tryout.' I was 00:47:00good enough but just not that time, you know?

EW: Yeah.

CMS: So, I was surprised to find myself battling this fear of failure and really kind of almost wanting to sabotage my own tryout so that I wouldn't have to expend all of this energy and not have it be good enough. That would be really hard to take and when I started to recognize that's what I was doing. Then, I of course said 'No, we are not doing that!' So, I pushed that aside and I said 'I'm going to risk it. I am going to do absolutely the very best I can possibly do and if it's not good enough, it's not good enough.' So, I went back with that attitude and interestingly enough, all five of the players I just listed, we all made the team.

EW: Wow.

CMS: And so when you ask about playing time, my expectation was never to be a starter.

RH: Right.

CMS: So, then I have to look at what is my role? Why am I on this team? And um, so I took on the role of making our starters the best players that they could be because I figured I'm the one that needs to just bang on these girls. I'm the one that needs to cause them problems in practice so that they're ready to play. So, I never had that high of an expectation to get minutes playing time. My role was different. My role was to you know, to get people ready. And I was also the oldest player on the team. So, I was one of the few players that had overseas experience and stuff and I was 24 when I was on the Olympic team and most of the girls at that time were in college. So, there was that part of it that I was one of the older players so some leadership on that and things like that. So, the 00:49:00minutes weren't that big of a deal, fortunately, we had a very strong team so we had big leads in a lot of games and so minutes came. So I did get to play quite a bit, but it wasn't because they needed my.....you know, they needed me (emphasis) to win (laugher) it was because we were far enough ahead that everybody played and everybody got to contribute.

EW: Yeah.

RH: Alright so now, I looked up a little bit about the past U.S. women's basketball team history with the Olympics and I think I got this right that you guys were the first gold medal team of the U.S. women's basketball. Before, I think there was a silver medal but you guys were the first women's basketball team to win a gold?

CMS: I believe so. Well you did the research so you would know, but women's basketball only started as an Olympic sport in '76.

RH: Correct.

CMS: And '80 was a boycott year, so we didn't compete that year.

EW: Yeah

CMS: And '80 was going to be the year that the United States turned the corner in women's basketball. Up until that time it had been dominated by the Soviet Union. And, um (pause) the east Germans, so there was a lot of the eastern European countries that were very, very strong in their programs and '80 was to be the year that things started to shift. Then, by '84 it was the big showdown. It was going to be the Soviet Union and the United States and this was...we were slightly favored over them and this was going to be the turning point. This is where people were anticipating where the U.S. starts to take over in women's basketball and stuff to dominate the way that the Soviet Union had dominated for 00:51:00all the time previously. Then, the Soviet Union boycotted in the '84 Olympics (laughs) and so the showdown never happened! (Laughter) Because of that, we dominated everything. We beat everybody by 20/30 points. A lot...a lot--

RH: So overall, how did, I mean from making the team, to contributing to practices, and then your playing time, and then winning a gold medal. How did this influence your life overall? Was it a big impact do you think?

CMS: Huge. The impact of being an Olympian, and a gold medal Olympian, is that turning point in (pause) it has identified me from that point forward. There's a saying, I saw on one of these emails I get from an Olympic committee or something: 'Once an Olympian, always an Olympian. Never past, never forward.' 00:52:00And that's really kind of what it is. You are not a past Olympian, you are from the time that you are an Olympian, it's part of your identity. I get, I still get, I mean we're coming up to the winter Olympics and every couple of years when it's Olympic time, I start getting calls. I get taken out of the closet and dusted off and asked to speak at things and do things and it has (pause) it's-- (pause) the Olympic experience was the most defining experience that I have had as a far as where do you go from there? There's the before the Olympics and then there's the after the Olympics.

RH: Uh huh.

CMS: It was a huge defining moment because it gave me all of the sudden I'm invited to friends, lunches all over the place, to speak at rotary, the Kiwanis, the Lion's Club, and school assemblies. There is all of this interest in what happened and in my story. As I look at this whole history and now you hear how atypical my path has been and how my sense that this has been God's direction and promise in my life to bring me to a certain place. As I reflect back now on this journey, I recognize that I now have this platform. People want to hear my story. My story is all about what God is doing in my life. And so you know it is 00:54:00a defining moment and it impacts everything about umm (pause) how I, you know, look at the world. How I view myself. I mean it was huge. I recommend it to anybody (laughs) who has the opportunity. (Laughter) If you have the opportunity to go to the Olympics, I highly recommend it (more laughter).

RH: Now a little back track here. Now you played basketball in Italy. What years did you play over there?

CMS: I played basketball from '81, the fall after I got out of school until (long pause) '88? 6 years I played in Italy. Then I played two seasons in Japan. 00:55:00So, my trip, my experience going over to Italy, I always thought it was like a one year thing (laughter). You know, when I went over there I wasn't going 'Oh I think I'll play ten years, I think I'll play 5 years.' It was like 'Oh, that's cool. I'll go over there and play a year and then I'll come back and finish school, but hey you are going to pay me to play basketball and eat pasta?' (laughter) I'm on board with that! And so, I never really until it got even after the Olympics did it you know sort of sink in that this was kind of a career. This was kind of an ongoing thing. I keep coming back, I keep getting invited back. I'm still healthy, I'm still playing. It was a great experience to go overseas.

RH: So did you play, you went to the, so you played in Italy and you played for the US team in the Olympics and then you went back to Italy?

CMS: Yeah, the Olympics at that time, the National team at that time didn't require a year round commitment. Now they pull them and they keep them together for an extended period of time, but the Olympic tryouts were...I want to say April. I mean, a couple months before the Olympics. Now they keep them together for like a year and do exhibition things and travel and work on the team, but at that time we took some talented athletes and threw them together for a couple of months and then took them to the Olympics. You know, that's what we did! And so, I was overseas playing after the '81, when I played for the '81 National team and then I went overseas. I went over there in like late August and stayed until March and then took '82 off to get married. In '83, when I got done with my 00:57:00Italian season, I came back to the U.S., went to tryouts, and spent the summer playing basketball for the U.S. team. Then, in the fall went back over to Italy. So it was year round basketball for a while. So after '84 I decided to retire from the National team and give other girls a chance (laughter) because I was tired of playing year round basketball. I mean I was playing 9 months in Italy and then coming back and playing 3 months and traveling, living out of a suitcase the whole time, and so I just decided, yeah I'll let somebody else play (more laughter) on the National team now.

EW: That's so cool.

RH: Can you tell us a little bit about how it was to play professional basketball in another country and living in another country?

CMS: Yeah, it was very eye opening. I would say that's probably the biggest education that I got more so than my university education was to be outside of 00:58:00the United States. Not just visiting on vacation but to be living outside the United States and to me the most eye opening part of that was how aware everyone was of the United States. Because I don't know, I had never even considered it. I figure, we're the United States, we pay attention to ourselves, they are Italy, they pay attention to ourselves, but everyone else is like we are, very absorbed in what we're doing. No, they were very (emphasis) absorbed in what we're doing. So, I was in Italy and it just amazed me at how aware they were of everything that was going on, more so than I was. They knew more about American politics than I ever cared to learn, you know. And they were way (pause) I mean I would ask questions all the time about the women's lib movement and I would go, "I wasn't involved in any of that, I'm not paying attention, I'm paying 00:59:00attention to what's happening in Corvallis, in my neighborhood," you know? But they were so aware of everything, it really was eye opening to me to be in another country and see really how much impact the United States has on the whole world. That was my first awareness of how powerful we really were as a country because we had so much impact on what was going on in so many other places. And they were so interested in everything that was going on in the United States and I had no idea. No idea. So, that was a huge education.

EW: Yeah.

RH: Now when you played over there was there difficult in communication, did you have to learn their language or did they adapt to you with the team?

CMS: Well both, (laughs), umm, I don't have a gift for language, umm, can tell 01:00:00you that right away. I don't know how , I so admire people that take classes in Spanish, Italian, French, whatever and learn to speak a language while living in the United states, I would have never (emphasis) been able to do that. The fortunate part for me, is that, basketball is an American sport, so a lot of the terminology that is used in basketball is American terminology and so, you know, they would say 'fast break', you know. One time my coach got a little confused and he was yelling during practice, he kept yelling, 'Breakfast, break fast break fast'. And I was thinking oh yeah we're going go have a cappuccino (laughing), a little croissant. And I'm looking at him and he's looking at me like 'why are you confused?' And then he suddenly realized and he goes "oh no, 01:01:00fast break fast break"

So you know the terminology was a lot, umm but I didn't get, I wasn't at least for the first couple of years, I didn't pick up a lot on the whole Italian pep talks, you know, when he would give the pre-- meetings, I didn't know what he was saying. But when he told me 'rebound' I knew what he wanted me to do. And so there was some of that but usually English is such as universal language so that generally there was some people on the team that, you know, one girl that would be particularly good with English and she would sit next to me and help me order my dinner and you know thing like that. But I really wanted to learn the language and so I took language classes and you know really tried hard and it was again one of those challenges that was particularly challenging for me, 01:02:00because I had always been good in school, you know and always got, you know A's and B's and didn't have to really struggle. And I was always one of the top in my class, and all of a sudden I'm like, in this Italian class and I'm like the worst (emphasis), I'm like not getting it and I'm just (sigh). It was hard! And I was immersed in the culture, forced to speak the language, taking languages classes and it took me three years before I felt comfortable with the language. That's how hard language was for me. And my teammates were all great because I'd be understanding what they were saying and I wanted to participate in the conversation and so we're at the hotel on a road trip and stuff and their telling stories and stuff and I'm like, 'I got a story' (laughing) and I'd start 01:03:00to say and they'd all like stop talking and listen while I'm trying to put together the words to tell the story; totally broke the whole flow of the whole conversation was like. They were laughing having fun and now all of a sudden it was like 'work' to hear Carol's story and then it was like 'okay that was fun' (nonchalantly). But they were so good about, being patient and helping me to communicate, just tolerating my little broken Italian. And Japanese was even worse, so I did learn Italian I attempted Japanese. " Sokshi nehung go ha na shimas" I speak a little Japanese and that is about the extent of it, that phrase is about the little Japanese I speak. (Laughing)

RH: Now you did a basketball video correct?

CMS: (Laughing) Yes

RH: Can you tell us a little bit about it?

CMS: Man, you have done your research! How did you dig up? It's on VHS tape, I have some copies.

EW: You do?

RH: Oh

CMS: Yeah it's on VHS tape, well I worked in broadcast communications you see, and I was a basketball player and when I retired from basketball, I came back and I went to work for a company here in town that was started by two of my professors on campus, and it was, we did TV commercials for TCI cable and that was just, they sold advertising and that was just basically to pay for their Video production fix. They loved video production, these two professors and they wanted to produce videos and so in order for them to subsidize their, you know, 01:05:00their addiction to this, they were in contact with TCI to sell the advertising which would bring money into the company so that we can do video. And one of the great ideas was, since they had a gold medalist, that was now working an 8-5 job, maybe she should produce a basketball video. So, I did, there are actually 2 videos --

RH: Yeah I saw that, volume 1 and volume 2

CMS: yeah, volume 1 and volume2. And of course we had just primitive equipment. You know it's hard to do a fundamentals video when you don't have slow mo, you can't like slow down the action or anything. So it's like we would have to freeze the action if I wanted to show a particular thing, all we could do cause we couldn't slow motion it, but we could freeze it. And you had to have someone standing over at this board over here and then I'd watch the video and I'd go 01:06:00'okay freeze' (yelling) and they'd push the button and then it was like, 'no try it again'. (laughing) We were trying to get it in the right spot and the right thing. It was very primitive, you know as far as the production elements that we had to work with. The fundamentals are sound, but the quality of the video is pretty primitive.

RH: Now being a basketball player and an Olympian, did you ever coach a team?

CMS: No, umm, that's a whole different skill set, and that is not one that I have. Even my daughter plays basketball and sometimes, when she was in fifth grade or something, they would ask me to fill in for the coach because the coach had to go to something, and when I'm watching a game, I'm looking and I'm seeing 01:07:00what these girls need to practice tomorrow. You know, they need to work on these fundamentals because that is how I learned was just from the fundamentals. I never really learned much strategy, much game strategy, I had my role and this is what I did, and the coaches took care of the strategy, so I never really got into that part of it, and so I don't have an eye to really kind of see on the other team, here's who is hurting us and here's how we adjust our offense to that. Here's the weakness in their defense, here's how we should attack it. Those are all things that don't glare out at me. I can see we need to work on passing cause doggonit, these girls are just throwing in into the defenses 01:08:00hands. It's not a skill set that is really my strength and so I don't pursue it.

RH: Now you say your daughter plays basketball?

CMS: yes.

RH: Is she still playing currently?

CMS: yes, she's in the middle of her season right now. They have the big game of the year, tomorrow night.

EW: At PHS?

CMS: yes it's at PHS, their playing Central in Independence and it's for the league title. Assuming that both of these teams will finish out the rest of their year beating the rest of the teams which hopefully that will happen but we've split one and one with them and so this is the third game.

RH: Now were you her personal coach? Did you teach her a lot?

CMS: No comment-- (laughing). My daughter doesn't thrive on the physical contact 01:09:00part of the game of basketball and women's basketball/girls basketball is WAY (emphasis) more physical then when I played. And so the position that I played, the low post kind of around the basket position has changed a lot. I was very much a finesse player, and a quickness player and you know, and I was strong. I mean I was fouled every time I shot and I made them but there wasn't as much physical battling as there is now. And she's as tall I was and she is about 60 pounds thinner than me. So, she's strong but she gets bounced against the walls in that low post position so she doesn't like to be down there even though she's 01:10:006'3 in 4A high school basketball. So she has huge benefits that way and she's very aggressive and she's extremely talented but she likes to play the outside more and so she has sort of resisted her mom teaching her the low post stuff because if she learns it she'll have to play down there (laughing). And she's actually not going to continue with basketball in college, she's going to play volleyball and she's going to come here.

RH: That's great!

CMS: We are really excited about that.

RH: Now what do you do in your spare time? What do you enjoy doing?

CMS: Spare time-- (pause).

RH: Well that is if you have any?

CMS: let's see-- Working full time, my spare time is split between sports things with my kids. So my son in track and field and my daughter in whatever sport she is in at the time. So, attending games, meets, events, you know things that my 01:11:00kids are involved in and then activities with my church as far as Bible study or women's ministry types of things. That's really where my heart is now is women's ministries. I love to meet with women in small groups and just discuss all of the things that God has special for us and what I'm learning on my journey here.

RH: That's great. And again we would like to thank-you very much for your time that you taken out to interview with us. And is there anything that we missed that you would like to add?

CMS: Well, you guys were very thorough. I have to say, you did your research and I'm looking and I was going wow they've looked up some stuff here to find all of 01:12:00this. So I appreciate the opportunity to reflect back. And a lot of your questions and things got me thinking a lot about the impact and how much of a change and how much the sport impacted me. I don't think, you know people look at my name and my accomplishments and I'm in the Oregon sports hall of fame and all this and that, and they talk to me about the impact that I have had on the sport. And I don't see that, what I see is the impact that the sport has had on me. Because it defined me. It totally changed how I approached things. And 01:13:00although I will say that my faith defines me, who I am, as a Christian, but God has used the sports and basketball, the Olympics, Oregon State, the people I have encountered. He has used that as a way of molding me into the who I am and so I see the benefit as being so hugely one sided. What basketball and sports has done for me compared to what kind of little pittance of an impact, I could have had on women's basketball in light of history. So that's what I would close with.

EW: I have two things I was thinking about-- Where did you meet your husband? Cause it was kind of in the middle of your professional career, right?

CMS: yeah, we haven't talked about how we met and things. My husband Ken, he was 01:14:00at Oregon State when I got here, and he was involved with the men's basketball team. Not as a player but he was a team manager. We met because we were both around Gill coliseum a lot and we would work Ralph Miller basketball camps during the summer and so we spent more extended time there. And we were more just friends. I mean, I tease him because I tell him, you know you never really dated me (giggling). You never took me out, we never dated and he just kind of got away with that cause we were just friends, we were just hanging out and working the camps together, going to the cafeteria and eating and stuff like that. So we weren't doing like dating stuff and then when I went overseas to Italy, now all of a sudden I start to recognize, I think I do kind of like that 01:15:00guy (laughing). We were writing letters, you know this was all before internet, before cell phones, before all of this. So the only way to communicate from overseas was either, one, very expensive long distance phone calls or letter. And letters took you know, three or four weeks to get there. I discovered that phone calls are very, very expensive. When I got my first phone bill. My first phone bill when I was in Italy was two thousand dollars! (Gasp from researchers).

EW: Oh my gosh

RH: Oh, wow!

CMS: yeah, so that's when I decided, you know I really should send him a ticket (laughing). And have him come over here so we could explore that maybe there is more to this friendship than just friendship. So he came over and visited my first year, when I was over in Italy and by Valentine's Day we were engaged and 01:16:00then we got married that summer.

EW: And then when you went back--

CMS: He came back most of the times, I mean he was over there with me. Although I'll say that the whole gender role thing with the men athletes that were over there playing basketball and their wives who were perfectly content to just go over there and heck, they could have babies and raise their kids. They could have family while their husband was playing basketball overseas. You know they could live there and have family and they could do stuff. But for me it was different. So I'm over there playing basketball, we're not having family until I'm done playing basketball and he has really nothing to do. And I think for a man that is difficult. And so he struggled with that aspect of it, in that in 01:17:00Italy unemployment was really bad and being a foreigner and not speaking the language. So to get a job was impossible. So that aspect was a struggle. I remember one time we were living in this apartment and we were looking down, and we were like on the 8th floor, and down below there was a supermarket down there and he was on the balcony and he was just kind of standing out there looking, you know, people coming in and out like little ants into the supermarket. And I was watching him cause I was going, what's he doing out there,-- hope he doesn't jump-- (laughing). So I said 'what are you doing out there', he came in and then he puts on his coat and then he starts to leave and I'm going 'where are you going, what are you doing?' and he goes 'I just thought I would go down there and round up the carts at the grocery store and take them inside. They're scattered all over the parking lot. And I thought 'he is too bored'. This man is 01:18:00desperately bored. I mean, he is trying to cope but he is desperately bored. And so he ended up, neither one of us had finished school when we went over there. But he ended up staying back at home, one of the years, and finishing his schooling and also working and putting some money away. It was more of a struggle for him then I think it is for women who are over there with their husbands who are playing basketball. He was over there for the whole time.

He did much better when we went to Japan because in Japan he could work. Because in Japan they really want English teachers. A lot of people go over there and teach English in language institutions because they want native English speakers. So he was able to do that. So they had a Japanese instructor teach the 01:19:00whole class and then Ken would re-teach the same lesson all in English so they could hear it spoken and things. So he was able to have a job which was so important for him. He'd get up in the morning and he'd put on his suit and tie and get on the subway and go to work and that made a huge difference.

EW: My second question was, cause you kind of eluded to it, but where do you keep your gold medal?

CMS: Depends. Sometimes it's at the safety deposit box at the bank but then what typically happens because I'm kind of a last minute procrastinator, is that I'll get invited to speak somewhere and I'll need to take it and it's like the bank is closed. So that doesn't work so good. So often it's a home, once in a while it's under my car seat because I've taken in somewhere, forgot it and stuck it 01:20:00under my car seat and so it's like, oh what's this? Oh it's my gold medal (laughing) I wondered where that went?

EW: Did your kids ever play with it?

CMS: You know, it's interesting when, from a kids perspective, they don't get a sense of how unusual this is, you know, it wasn't until they were older, I think my son is just now sort of getting it when he has teammates down there that went to the Beijing Olympics and it was such as HUGE (emphasis) deal and it was like "huh, my mom did that." So when they grow up with it, you know my daughter came here, her basketball team made it to state last year which is held here at Gill Coliseum, and she was like waiting out in the hallway for the team to come in and she saw some plaque or something that had all my accomplishments on it and 01:21:00she's like reading that and she's going 'were you really that good?' (laughing) And I was going "I tried to tell you-- now do you want to learn how to play low post?"

So I think they just grow up with it, and it's just so common to them, and they get so many people commenting, you know on it, that it's just 'normal'. It's just average, normal, you know. So as they get older it's becoming more, they have more of an appreciation for what it was.

EW: That was all I thought about.

RH: Well, I learned so much actually. Thank you again for taking the time, this is great.

CMS: --And fun for me too, cause I never look at what all that stuff was.

EW: Well and it's interesting too to hear journey's, you know?

CMS: Oh my goodness, what a journey.

RH: And everyone's story is so different and yours is so atypical

CMS: Exactly.