Leslie Burns Oral History Interview, March 11, 2020

CHRIS PETERSEN: Today is March 11th, 2020. And we're in the Learning Innovation Center with Leslie Burns, emeritus faculty member in Apparel Design, and a former administrator as well, and doing some exciting private sector work that we'll talk about later on in this interview. This is the Hidden History of Women in OSU, HC 407. This is a group interview. We've divided the class up into three different groups. And the first group will cover Leslie's early life up until OSU. Second group will cover OSU faculty experience. And then third group will be administrative career and the private sector work. So let's go ahead and get started with group one.

GROUP 1 STUDENT: So our first question for you, is just tell us a little bit about where you grew up and what your family dynamic was like.

LESLIE BURNS: I was born in a very small town in Northern Montana, Cut Bank which is close to the Canadian border and close to Glacier Park. And I have to 00:01:00older sisters. When I was ten, the family moved to the big city of Great Falls which is about the size of Corvallis. [Laughs] At the time, it was about the size of Corvallis-we thought it was a big city. And I went to high school in Great Falls. And in terms of family dynamics, my sisters are 4 and 6 years older than I am. They were definitely my role models-as a child growing up, you have big sisters. But when they left-go off to college-I then took over kind of as an only child for a while, which was pretty nice.

And my parents, my mother was trained as a dietitian. She worked as a dietitian 00:02:00until she married my father. And then when I was a senior in high school, she took correspondence courses to get her registration back through-this was the early online, there wasn't obviously online, it was hand-written correspondence courses through-Iowa State. And she got her registration back. And then when I graduated from high school, she returned to the work force and worked as a clinical dietitian. My father was a graduate of Purdue. I should say, my mother graduated from University of Montana, then did her internship at University of Washington. My father was a graduate of Purdue in animal husbandry. His first positions were in the extension service. And then decided what he wanted to go 00:03:00into banking. So he started out as a loan officer, then did graduate work in finance, and was a bank officer for a number of years until he went into the private sector of managing ranches and farms in primarily the northwest, mid-west Montana, Idaho, northern South Dakota, that area. He passed away at the age of 54, of various complications with cancer. And so my mother was on her own for a number of year, and she passed away in 2003.

GROUP 1 STUDENT: So tell us a little bit about your parents involvement in 4-H and how that might have sparked your interest.

LB: My father was a long-time 4-H'er, grew up in a 4-H family in Indiana. And as children, he became involved with 4-H. My mother became a 4-H leader. And we had a variety of project-so this would have been one started when I was in Cut Bank. And then when we moved to Great Falls, I was taking sewing classes. I was learning how to sew, really, from my grandmother. My mother sewed but my grandmother definitely was the inspiration as I was in, in terms of sewing. And then I just continued in 4-H all through high school. My projects were sewing, I started in cooking-I was not very good. I got lots of white ribbons at the fair 00:05:00so I stopped doing cooking. I did junior leadership, I did interior design, I did child development, other projects. Those were most my projects. I was camp counselor all through high school, so I did that. I also worked at the state fair which was in Great Falls during the summer, as entries were being brought in but also judging competitions and assisted the judges. I went to 4-H congress, what was then called dress review-it's now called, I think, fashion review or style review or something. But it is a compilation of your sewing projects and modeling. So we would model and we had to walk down stairs. We had to sit appropriately, answer questions from the judge. So that was dress review.

GROUP 1 STUDENT: So outside of 4-H, how did you like to spend your free time?

LB: I was pretty active in high school. I was a cheerleader, went for 2 of the years, my sophomore and senior year. Junior year, I was a mascot. We were the Charles M Russell High School Rustler. It was grey and gold, bright green leather jacket-I'll tell you all about the clothes. Bight green leather jacket with Indian border, work on the back. I had green and gold leather chaps that were made for me. I had a little pistol and a cowboy hat and cowboy boots. I ran the pep rallies, I tried to get the groups and fans excited. And-what else-I was 00:07:00in choir, I was in theatrical productions, I was on the theatre team for a while. I did my own radio show that I called in every week about what was going on at C.M. Russell High School, and cover all the things that often times didn't get covered, like the speech team, that don't always get a lot of publicity. Yeah.

GROUP 1 STUDENT: Growing up in Montana, what was the culture of home economics?

LB: The culture of home economics, it was-we took it in high school-a required course. I took all actually 3 years. What was interesting is that I probably did 00:08:00the most poorly in the sewing piece. Because we made really stupid things, I thought, in the 4-H classes. I wanted to do something much more. At that point in time-I was in high school-I was designing my own clothes, I was tailoring, I made a tailored suit for my father. So I was sort of beyond making a swimsuit coverup out of towels. So I found that part pretty boring. But what was interesting is, when I was a senior, we all took-all the women and young girls, the women in the home economics program-a Betty Crocker exam. And it was called the future homemaker exam. And it was to determine how well you were going to be a future homemaker. So I actually received the highest score on the future homemaker exam, got a little medal from Betty Crocker. What was interesting is, 00:09:00years later I'm sitting around the table with colleagues and we were talking about our high school experience. And all of us-these are professors-the homemaker of the year award from our high schools. And it's because we could take exams. We were good students. It wasn't anything about we were ever going to be necessarily homemakers. [Laughs] But we could take exams.

When I graduated from high school, they gave competency exams to see where you might best fit into college. And I received the highest score in the mathematics. And I received an engineering scholarship from Montana State in chemical engineering-I had absolutely no idea what I would ever do with that. I didn't know what an engineer was, I had no idea what chemical engineering 00:10:00was-just because I'm good at math. So I turned it down cuz what would somebody ever do with this. And obviously, not a lot of career counseling at that time. I went into home economics and majored in home economics because I could sew. And it was the appropriate major-you went into education, nursing, or home economics. And that was the amount of our career counseling that we received at that time. Am I disappointed or "Oh gee, I wish I would have gone into chemical engineering"? No, not at all. So it's not something that was ever a regret, looking back. But I find it kind of fascinating now that there wasn't much career counseling at that time.

GROUP 1 STUDENT: So, what did influence your decision to attend Montana State?

LB: It was in Montana. We didn't look at school. It had home economics. It was the university in Montana that had home economics.

GROUP 1 STUDENT: Why did you decide to transfer from Montana State to Washington State University? How was that transition?

LB: Yeah. So after my first year, I knew I wanted to go into clothing and textiles, fashion merchandising. I looked at lots of different fashion schools. And my parents told me that they would partially support me if I went to a 4-year school, and they would not if I went to a 2-year school. So I decided, "OK, I'm going to go to a 4-year school." Washington State was the closest that had a stand-alone-it was called-clothing and textiles program. And their in-state tuition-what it was then-all I had to do was live in Washington for a year, I had to have my driver's license and bank account in Washington and the 00:12:00residence hall counted as a permanent resident address. So I paid out-of-state tuition and first year. And then after that, I had in-state tuition. I was a resident of Pullman, Washington. But I wanted to go too. I thought Washington State was just this-you know, Pullman was huge-this huge school. But it had a stand-along clothing and textile program. It was essentially apparel design, looking back on it. We took business classes and then I became really interested in psychology and social psychology. So I took a lot of psychology and social psychology courses.

GROUP 1 STUDENT: Can you talk a little bit about your internship with Cele Forzley?

LB: Oh, Cele Forzley. So Cele Forzley was a friend of my mothers'. She had been on the faculty at the University of Wisconsin-Stout in clothing, particularly 00:13:00clothing construction. And when I was a senior in high school, I had taken all the courses that I needed to take to graduate. There was this what was called PACE Program-and I don't event know what PACE stands for. But it was a self-directed course that you applied for. You said, "This is what I'm going to do. These are the goals that I'm going to meet." And it was to help you in your college. Well, I was going into home economics and she was appropriate-because she had been on the faculty at the university-to guide me. And she taught me tailoring. She taught me couture tailor. I loved it. I loved every bit about it. 00:14:00It was about manipulating fabrics and molding wool. And you had horse hair, interfacing, pad-stitching, and the details of matching pads both ways. I loved every bit of it. So that's what she taught me.

GROUP 1 STUDENT: Was there any other figure in your life, like a mentor, that influenced your passion for fashion?

LB: Yeah. I think I mentioned that I had been a help during the fair. I'm going to forget her name-it'll come to me. She, for three years, was a judge for clothing and clothing construction. And I was her assistant. So I would give her and garments and lay them out. And she would ask and I would turn them inside out. And I would take notes for whoever it was that would get it. So I learned a 00:15:00lot about construction and clothing. In terms of the fashion piece, I was playing with fashion, playing with fabrics at that time, doing sketches. Even in through college, I used to design in my dreams and I would wake up and sketch. Usually in the morning I couldn't figure out what it was but I was just immersed. I was reading fashion magazines-of course, we would get those paper copies. So I think those were probably sealed and they come to me.

GROUP 1 STUDENT: At what point did you decide to pursue an advanced degree? And why did you choose Purdue University?

LB: Well, one summer, I worked in retail-I thought I was going to go into 00:16:00retail. I didn't, at the time, quite understand that there were lots of jobs in apparel design, per se. So I thought I would go into retail. I worked at the Barn Marche, which is now Macy's, in Great Falls Montana, and realized that's probably not quite what I wanted to do. But I wasn't quite sure what I would do. I took a social science research course at Washington State and loved it. And I thought, "Well, what can I do with this? How can I combine this?" And I remember going and talking to my counselor-advisor, we called them counselors-advisor. And I said I really liked this course, what could one do with this? And she told me, "Well, you could get a graduate degree. You obviously have the grades." And 00:17:00I went "Ok, and then what do you do?" "Well, you could go into marketing research." And that was the first that I'd ever thought about going into something with regards to research.

So I started doing research on that. I applied at Cornell University, Iowa State and Purdue. My father was a graduate of Purdue. They had a master of retailing program. And they were the first ones to call me with an assistantship. So I accepted. And that's why. I don't know what I would have done at Iowa State. I did not get into Cornell but I got into Iowa State. And they called me about a week later with assistantship and I said, "Well I've already taken another offer." We never visited schools that sort of thing. And they offered me money. It covered all of my tuition. It was a stipend. And so I started at a master of retailing program. My second year in, I was approached to switch into a Ph.D. 00:18:00program-cuz about that time, I was looking at "ok, what Ph.D. program should I go do. So they said I could just switch into a Ph.D. program so I would not have to do a thesis and then a dissertation. And they would provide me with funding for the next, or however long I need it, which was really nice. And it was a 12 month assistantship. So I did research in the summers and then I had a teaching assistantship during the academic year. And I said, "Sure." So I completed my Ph.D. in 3 years. It was kind of a "all or nothing". So I don't have a master's degree. I took 3 years of statistics. [Laughs] And then my final year, still 00:19:00taking course work and finishing my dissertation.

GROUP 1 STUDENT: Can you tell us a little bit about the research you did while in graduate school?

LB: I was minoring-I had a minor in research design and statistics. I had a minor in social psychology. So I was looking at social psychological factors that affected why people buy the clothing that they do. It was all quantitative. It was all experimental design and looking at variety of personal factors and social factors that contributed to individual's both purchase behavior and using 00:20:00of clothing, but also perceptions of others. And that perceptions of others definitely influenced my research down the road, but also my teaching. I developed the course of apparel's power in society, which was all about social stereotyping base on appearance. So yes, that research was definitely an influence down the road.

GROUP 1 STUDENT: This is the last question for this section: Can you talk about your time at San Diego State University and Utah State University, and what the culture of home economics was like at these schools?

LB: So when I left Purdue, I interviewed for a number of positions. I was kind of burnt out with school. [Laughs] And I always wanted to live in Southern California so I took an instructor's position at San Diego State. Best thing I 00:21:00ever did. Well, I wouldn't say "best". It was a really great thing I did. I figure I have a lot of good things. But at the time, it was a really good decision. And again, no regrets. I taught 4 classes a semester. So I definitely got skilled, 4 different classes, at teaching. And it was the department of family and consumer sciences. So it had nutrition, human development, and family sciences. And fashion merchandising were in that department.

After a year of enjoying really warm, lovely weather and focusing on my teaching, I realized I missed research. So I interviewed at 3 different school: Kansas State, Utah State, and San Diego State-they had turned that position into 00:22:00a tenure track position. I flew into Logan, Utah and was sold at the mountains. And it was gorgeous. And I had a separate department that was clothing and textiles. They had master's program so I was able to start working with graduate students. It was in a college of family life. So it had separate department. That would have been the areas at San Diego-so they had a nutrition department, they had a human development and family studies department, and a clothing and textiles department. We were combined education, I think, for home economics education-not sure why. I don't even remember what the department name was. But we were two areas within our department.

And I was there 3 years. I loved it. But realized that I wanted to-both personal and professional reasons. I was in Logan, Utah; I was a single female and a single professional female-go somewhere where there may be more opportunities for a social life. And I'm not Mormon. I'll just add that to the mix. When the position at Oregon State opened up-that was kind of my dream job of coming to the west coast-I interviewed at Washington State and at Oregon State that year. 00:24:00I did go up for promotion and tenure at Utah State early after just 3 years. I was promoted and tenured. So I left that position-and I left a tenured position-to come to Oregon State. But I did come as an associate professor without tenure. So they granted the promotion but not the tenure piece, which was fine. Does that answer that question?

GROUP 1 STUDENT: Yeah, thank you.

LB: Ok.

GROUP 2 STUDENT: Our first question was how did you come to work at OSU after your time at San Diego and Utah. But I think you answered already.

LB: Yeah, I'm trying to think of anything else. Definitely, it was a clothing an textiles program. It had a great reputation. And they had had master's program. 00:25:00And when I interviewed here, Sally Francis was the department head. She went on to be dean of the graduate school. I'm actually having lunch with her today. [Laughs] She talked with me about creating a Ph.D. program. So we talked about that when I interviewed. And it was everything about Oregon State that sold me on coming here.

GROUP 2 STUDENT: What were some changes in home economics that you saw during your time at OSU?

LB: Oh gosh-well, I started out in a department of clothing, textiles and related arts in the college of home economics. We then-I'm not sure about the chronology-became the department of apparel, interiors, and merchandizing, still 00:26:00in the college of home economics. And then we became home economics and education-I'm not sure when. Then we became a department of apparel and interiors, housing and merchandizing-everybody wanted their name in the title. We then became a combined college with health and human performance, and we became the college of health and human sciences. And at that point, we became a department of design and human environment. We then became a school of design and human environment. And then we then moved from the college of then-became public health and human sciences to the college of business.

So the name changes, I think, are evolution of how the programs evolved. And 00:27:00what's interesting is when we became health and human sciences, there was a lot of confusion. "Well, that's the old home economics."-we got a lot of that. "That's just what was home economics.", "Oh, OK. Now we understand." Cuz people weren't quite sure why we were in health and human sciences, particularly the fashion merchandizing-we called "merchandizing management and apparel programs"-why are you in health and human sciences. For us, it actually made a lot of sense. Our research was very health oriented. And we were looking at creating designs that contributed to people's health and wellbeing. So it didn't seem odd to us. But externally, it often times seemed odd.

GROUP 2 STUDENT: What was it like to be able to create a course for the difference, power, and discrimination requirement? And what did your course emphasize?

LB: Yeah, I loved that. It was my absolute favorite course ever, probably. It started out when I came to Oregon State, there was a course that was called clothing and men. This is 1985 and I was assigned. It was the psychology of appearance course. And the first term I was here, I remember going to the department head, Sally Francis, and saying, "How does one change the name of a course?" [Laughs] So it then became clothing and society, I think-appearance and society, probably-something like that. And it focused on all of the social 00:29:00psychology of why people wear what they do, but also how they form impressions of others based on how they appear, and how those impressions then affect behavior.

It was definitely founded based on social psychology, literature, research, and theory. But that was evident of the time. When I was at Utah State, one of my colleagues, Gerald Adams, was in human development and family studies. And he had been doing research on how teachers behave differently to grade school children-so this is in the early 80s-based on how they appeared, based upon what 00:30:00they looked like. And I'll never forget he talked about the fact that when he first read some of these work, he said "That can't be. Teachers would never do that."

And as he said, "I spent the next 30 years trying to prove this wrong." He was on my promotion and tenure committee, and definitely a mentor in terms of research and of looking at things that sometimes make people feel uncomfortable and going "that can't be". And when people became of it, and aware of how they behave, then we can start working towards "Ok, what does this mean for as an individual", and "what does it mean for social groups", etc. So that course really evolved from the work that I've been doing at Utah state. And one of the 00:31:00best compliments I every received was I was standing in the MU in line, getting lunch, and one of students was in front of me. He turned around and he said, "You ruined me." And I went, "What?" "I can't watch a television show and advertisement, read a magazine. I can't do anything without looking at why are we looking at- how did they- and he just kept going on and on about how this had changed his whole view of media and television, and movies, and all of these. And I said, "Thank you." [Laughs] He really became aware of what he was doing and it made him uncomfortable. Yeah, that sometimes happens.

I hadn't really thought about-cuz this was a big class, we had a hundred and some students in the course every term-submitting it for baccalaureate core just because of numbers. I thought, "Oh gosh, we've got plenty of... ok." And it was actually my students that went to the person who was overseeing the bacc core at the time and said "this course should be a bacc core class." So they approached me and said "would you submit it?" And I said, "But you need to realize this is a big class. It's not gonna meet any of the criteria of only 30 students or whatever." But it was approved. But we did have to, every time the assessments came through, definitely justify why it was a big course and how you can create-you know, you've got 120 students but you want to make it feel like it's 00:33:0030 students or 25 students. So that's how it became a bacc core class. I loved that class.

GROUP 2 STUDENT: Tell us about some of your major researches during your time as a faculty member.

LB: My research focused early stemming from-when I first start-very quantitative, a lot of experimental design on factors, again, that affect why people buy and wear what they do, as well as the social perception piece of it. What was interesting is, I started adding interview questions to, after doing experimental design and very quantitative, add a bit of qualitative data. And I 00:34:00was discovering the qualitative data was really informing the quantitative, much more than I ever dreamed, cuz I came from a statistics background, well, psychology experimental designs background. And "wow, this is really informing the statistical aspect." And then I kept moving forward with that. And, actually, then did some additional professional development on qualitative research where you're collecting qualitative data. And then moved almost entirely to more really trying to get deeper into some of these social psychological pieces. I was also then working a lot with graduate students. And then as I went into administration, my research was very much a factor of what 00:35:00my master's and doctoral students were doing. And I was, at that point, also getting into book-writing which I thoroughly enjoyed. So my own, sort of, personal research agenda was definitely informed and shaped by what my graduate students were doing and what I was doing with regards to book writing.

GROUP 2 STUDENT: You've done a lot of service while you were working here at OSU. What stands out to you in defining your impact at Oregon State?

LB: My service, yeah, this goes back to being someone who's a joiner. [Laughs] I join clubs and I like working in teams. The impact varies. In some cases, the 00:36:00committees I was on, I feel like there really was an impact that we made on the university. Promotion and tenure committee, I was part of the group that-in fact, the promotion and tenure committee that we developed in the mid-1990s are still in use today. We redefined scholarship to be much more inclusive. Faculty scholarly work, not scholarship-students are getting scholarships-scholarly work for the faculty to be much more inclusive. I'm very proud of the work that that committee did. I was on committees that sometimes I felt we didn't get a lot 00:37:00done. And yet, I was a true, true believer in faculty governance. I think that comminated in the work with faculty senate both on the executive committee and then when I was president of faculty senate. I am a truly believer that curriculum is the purview of the faculty. And sometimes we got bogged down in bureaucracy of approval processes and length of time that it took for things to get approved. And sometimes that was frustrating as being part of that. And yet, I knew that that was important for the faculty to have the final say, and, in my opinion, the only say in what the curriculum should look like and be like.

As I went into administration, probably the area that I am-and I still-just smile when I see information about it. I co-chaired the first committees-we called it the dual admission and enrollment programs at the time, but this is -the degree partnership program. There was someone from Oregon State, and someone from a community college that co-chair those committees. And I co-chaired the first ones until I left central administration to go back to the department. That program has just expanded and now includes community colleges not just in Oregon but elsewhere. And again, I was told it couldn't be done. I 00:39:00was told, "What are you doing? You're giving away our lower division courses." I wish I had a nickel for every time somebody told me that "it won't happen", "you can't do this". But this is right thing to do. Students were already doing this. It is absolutely the right thing for students. So I'm really proud of that piece.

GROUP 2 STUDENT: And looking back, what were the Corvallis and Oregon State environments like when you first moved here? And how did you see them change over you time at Oregon State, especially with regards to being a female faculty member?

LB: Gosh, I've got lots of stories. Coming in as a female faculty member to 00:40:00Oregon State, I think it's harshly shaped by me experience in Logan. So at Utah State-this is early 1980-they had a faculty women's group that was made up of the wives of the men faculty. And the women faculty were invited. And the first question that I was always asked by someone knew was "so how many children do you have". And I said, "Well, none."- "Oh, well. That will come." I said, "Well, I'm not married." And then it was sort of "why are you here". So that's just one example of what was happening in Utah.

When I came to Oregon State, it was, for me, a very refreshing environment. I 00:41:00was also in a department where we had one male faculty member. All of the leadership within the department was female. All of the student groups had female presidents, all the student organizations. We were all about raising females, young females, and mentoring young females. And we were all about raising the perception of female dominated field, such as fashion merchandizing. It was sort of like "Yay us!". I didn't feel any kind of-you know, my department 00:42:00chair was a female, dean was a female. Even though my mentors at Oregon State tended to be male, they were very supportive.

The ones that were not supportive were women in predominantly male fields. And it was very difficult for us, or me-I won't say "us", for me-to understand why women in predominantly male field, particularly if they were the only woman, would look down on and criticize units that were predominantly, in our case 00:43:00almost entirely, female as unimportant and feminine in a negative word. And I once was asked, "You're a feminist? But you study fashion." I didn't quite even know how to respond. Because for us, it was all about raising about women and women's work. If you've ever read the book Women's Work: The First 10,000 Years, it's all about clothing and textiles. [Laughs] So that struck me as "wow, ok." So that was what I encountered when I first came to Oregon State.

When I was going into administration, one of my male mentors, who I absolutely respected, absolutely admired, we talked a lot about my career path. So this was when I was in central administration. And if I wanted to go into a provost career track, he said, "you need to realize, Leslie, you have three things going against you already. The Oregon State people know who you are but outside of Oregon State, one, you're a female in a female dominated field."-Three things, I guess female, female dominated field-"third thing, is you're petite. And so you're a petite woman in a female dominated field." And he said sort of, "Good luck." It was more of "Ok, given those 'constraints', what do we do now if you 00:45:00want to go into a central administration position outside of Oregon State?" And it was the reality at the time. I, one, would hope that things have changed since then-I'm not so sure. Anyways, so that was some of the-in terms of-being a female here. And he offered, he said "If you decide to go that route, let me know. Because I'll write letter; I'll be your biggest advocate. But you just need to know that's the reality." I don't know it that answers the question.

GROUP 2 STUDENT: It did. So we kind of combined, for ourselves, that three of 00:46:00your passions are research, education, and fashion. How would you describe the relationship between these passions? And how do they compare straight to one another, or how do they affect one another?

LB: Yeah, for me, they're all intertwined. What was interesting for me is looking at career paths. In central administration, I was still teaching, and I was still teaching the appearance, power, and society core, big course, cuz I just couldn't imaging not teaching. Plus, I was in an administrative role that focused on undergraduate education. [Laughs] And I thought, you know, if I'm not teaching, I don't really quite get what's happening when we say "Oh, you need to X, Y, and Z." "Sure!" -you know , what that really means for somebody that's teaching. So I still had that love of the field. The administrative position was 00:47:00so-called half time. I was really burnt out. When I started there, two people reported to me. And when I left, there was probably 9 or 10 programs reporting to me, as well as all of the dual admission and degree partnership programs. My husband, at the time, was very ill. So I said, "Time out. I need to step back. I need to go back to the department." And I had missed it. I have to admit, I really had missed it.

And my research evolved, definitely, in terms of looking at fashion and the 00:48:00business of fashion. So this is when I was getting into book writing and bringing concepts together, and organizing them in ways that would make sense in an instructional textbook. My research-this is when we still had file cabinets and files-files were organized by my lectures. So no one else would ever be able to find anything. Because I knew what lecture that research informs. So it was just always integrated for me. Does that answer-?

GROUP 2 STUDENT: Yes. It totally does. And what about your experience teaching in Taiwan?

LB: Oh, teaching in Taiwan. So the dean of public health and human science, 00:49:00Tammy Bray, when I was department head, was a graduate of Fu Jen University and one of their famous alums, especially she was dean of college in United States. And she invited me. They have a huge program. So Taiwan is about the size of the Willamette Valley, and has 5000 textile companies. So this an area of world that, obviously, has a huge industry. Their clothing and textiles program is in a building about the size of the Kerr Administration building, 6 floors. Top floor is their historic costume collection. Bottom floor are their knitting 00:50:00machines, cuz they weigh a lot. It's just a huge, huge program. So she invited me to go with her on a trip. And I gave one lecture for their Executive MBA program. And then they invited me back. So I went twice, back, and taught in the Executive MBA program. These were all individuals that were working in the industry and getting their MBAs. So it was evening courses, and then all day Saturday and Sunday, kinds of things that I did with them.

It was an amazing experience. I taught very, very differently than what they were used to. They were used to professors standing up in front of a lecture and reading a lecture. So I was being funded by a program that was designed to 00:51:00enhance the English skills of the MBA students. Originally, Taiwan students would go to, to learn English, Hong Kong or some other English-speaking area, Great Britain, some place, and then come back to Taiwan. Over the years, they found what was happening is English was being taught by native Chinese speakers from Taiwan. And they didn't feel that the students were learning from a native English speaker. So they brought in native English speakers to teach subjects. 00:52:00One of our primary goals was to enhance the English skills. So the students immediately were required-I was requiring them-to do writing, to get into This was very, very different kind of teaching style.

During the day-so these were night courses and then all day Saturday and Sunday-I had 2 to 3 students who were assigned to me. This was practicing showing a foreigner around. And again, they could make mistakes with me and it's not going to cost them any problems with their company. So they could take me to any place that they want to. And my role was to ask them all kinds of questions and to have them translate everything. I got too see all kinds of things that a 00:53:00normal tourist wouldn't. You know, behind the scenes at the Taiwan Opera, art galleries, on and on and on. So it was just an amazing experience for me. And I still keep in touch with a lot of the students that I had there, and of course with Fu Jen and the colleagues there. I've gone back a couple of times for other reasons. And when we were doing some work with footwear, we visited Taiwan cuz I have a huge footwear materials industry. So that was my experience there. I loved it.

GROUP 2 STUDENT: And what about your connection with the Korean Scholars of Marketing Science [inaudible]?

LB: So that came about through my involvement with the International Textile and Apparel Association. When I was president of ITAA, good friend, who I'd known 00:54:00for a long time, was president of KSET. And we said, we should do something together. So we started a joint symposium and I said, "Let's do something that brings scholars together and actually can be used as a way to integrate and to enhance scholarship and would bring together faculty from Korea and faculty from the United States." So it just evolved over that. Again, it just happened that we were presidents at the same time, and kind of shepherd the symposium along.

GROUP 2 STUDENT: And if we to back up a little bit to some of your service at OSU, we wanted to focus a little bit more on your work in the faculty senate, as 00:55:00well as on the board of advisors for the Faculty Women's Network. Could you talk a little bit more about your experiences with both of these?

LB: Yeah, so I'll start with the Faculty Women's Network. When I came to Oregon State, there was this group that we had two receptions a year. It was purely social. So just to let you know, when I came to Oregon State, we could-in fact we did this once, it was 1985-we knew all of the women full professors. I could name them. There was really 10, 12 of them. So we really need to get together just as women faculty. There is no pressure, there's no program. Just let's get together and get to know each other. So we had two receptions a year. We had one 00:56:00that was at someone's home, and we had one that was at the president's house. And of course, we needed funding for this. So one of the thing we learned early on-and I don't remember where would we learn this-if you want resources for female professional development mentoring programs-this is the mid-80s-and all of the administration is male, look for males that have daughters, and talk about the importance of professional development for young women.

Roy Arnold, who was provost at the time, has two daughters. So we went to him 00:57:00and talked to him about the importance of these kinds of professional development opportunities to share resources for young women, and the importance of this for not just our generation but for the young women coming up through the ranks. So he was an ally from day one. Now, I think, knowing Roy, he would have been. But that was kind of the philosophy at the time of how you can navigate at things.

It moved from having it at someone's home-again, we went "oh, this is just adding more stress to someone's life"-to having it at bed and breakfast that typically, often times donated their space. And then we would have it at the president's house. I remember one time, there was a faculty member from 00:58:00forestry. She was the only female in her department-imagine maybe even in the college, at that time. She just wanted to know where to get her haircut. There were a lot of sharing of resources around, childcare, and who do you have come clean your house, and where do you get your haircut. And I remember a faculty, actually in our department, who was originally from Taiwan, her in-laws were coming for Thanksgiving. She was newlywed. Her in-laws were coming for Thanksgiving, expecting an American Thanksgiving. She had no idea. So we said, "Ok, get the Turkey from Safeway, go to New Morning Bakery to get your rolls, go to this, this is the best bakery for pies." We said, "Put a pot of water with some onions, they'll think you've cooked things[laughs]. And then just put them 00:59:00in your own serving dishes.", which was what she did. And she came back, she said, "Thank you, thank you." So it's that kind of sharing of resource. So that was Faculty Women's Network.

Faculty senate, I became just involved through the committee structure, then was asked to run for the executive committee. So I was on the executive committee. And then, actually, I was asked to run several times for president. And there is no way that I could do it. I just had too many other things on my plate. There had been a number of women who have been faculty senate president prior. So there was a president for that. Although I was told-I don't know this first hand 01:00:00but I was told-that there would be faculty that would simply vote against me. They didn't think a woman should be president of faculty senate even at that point in time. The faculty senate presidency is a 3-year commitment. And I think that one of the areas I helped shepherd through were the learning goals for graduates during my time as faculty senate president. You meet with the provost. You get to know the central administration pretty well cuz you meet with them on a regular basis.

GROUP 2 STUDENT: And our last question is about your experience with mentoring 01:01:00graduate students here at OSU. What was that like?

LB: One of the, probably the most, rewarding is, of course, mentoring students and graduate students, particularly Ph.D. students, through the process but also as they're launching their careers and beyond. I get together with my former graduate students, as doctoral students cuz they're in faculty positions at other universities, at our annual meeting of the International Textile and Apparel Association. And I'm still continuing to mentor, going through tenure, doing sabbaticals. You know, they're now applying for department head positions. So it doesn't end when they graduate. It really is listening and just asking 01:02:00lots of questions-mostly is what I do now as they have moved out, away from Oregon State. During the time that they're here, it is really what you need to keep you on track to graduate. And I'm here to serve you but also to give you the absolute best preparation to launch your career.

GROUP 3 STUDENT: Thank you. You've talked a little bit about your role in administration but we're wondering how did you come into the roles of associate, and then interim, vise provost of Academic Affairs. And then what were your roles and how does that compare to being a professor?

LB: In the early 1990s, I did a number of leadership trainings. One was I did 01:03:00internship in the provost's office, and I had a project. The project, at that time, was faculty productivity. And I chaired at all-campus committee, basically doing a report on faculty productivity. At the time, the legislator said "Gee, if every faculty member just teaches one more class, then our budget would be-", you know, as he didn't realize all that faculty did. So we did this big report on faculty productivity. That was an internship with the provost's office.

And then I did a year-long leadership program with the agriculture experiment station because I was in home economics-we got ag experiment station funding. 01:04:00And they wanted women be part of-I was in the very first group, this was-a national leadership training. They wanted women into this program but there weren't very many women in ag science so they turned to home ec. So there were 100-yes, there were 2 people from every state-people total at the program. There were 10 women. I knew 8 of them. [Laughs] Cuz we were all from the clothing and textiles. It was really, quite funny. There was all these women, particularly, from clothing and textiles, the fashion groups.

Oh you'll enjoy this. During that training, they did psychological tests on us, they did a 360. They sent out questionnaires to my colleagues about whether or 01:05:00not I would be a good leader and my traits. And then they did an analysis during these workshops of how I interacted with other people. At the end, they would call you in. And they had a group of men that called you in to tell you what you needed to work on.

So I came in, I had lots of work to do to become a good leader. First of all, I smiled too much-good leaders should not, they need to take things seriously. Secondly, apparently, I was motivated by fun. Well that's not gonna work. Next, 01:06:00I apparently looked at things optimistically-well, leaders in higher education, that's not gonna get me anywhere if you look at things optimistically because things are bad. So you've got a lot of work to do. The other thing was that I didn't take things seriously enough. The good traits, apparently I was a good organizer. That's a good thing. And then people enjoyed working with me, but, you know, you can't be friends [emphasizes] with the people that you lead. So there were all these things I needed to work on. And I just went "Well, then I'm not gonna be a leader." [Laughs] I walked out and I went, "Wait a minute, that's stupid. I'm just gonna be the leader I want to be." So I kind of dismissed it 01:07:00all. And I looked back, in fact, going through my office, I found a bunch of stuff and just laughed and laughed at what they told me I needed to do and that I ended up not doing.

So I had gone through these trainings, back to the question. I'd gone through these trainings and I really thought I wanted to go into administration. And there was this position. It was a half-time position in the provost's office, director of undergraduate programs. What could be better? I loved undergraduates, I was teaching undergraduates, I liked to organize things. At the time precursors to the first-year experiences program was the program that reported to me. I had an assistant. It was curriculum development. So it's just ideal. When I got into it, everything started getting reported to me. So I was 01:08:00there 5 year. Like I said, personal, professional things, I needed to step away. Went back into the department, and within the year was appointed department head. So it didn't last, that not being part of administration, very long. And then department head of school, I had for 9 years.

GROUP 3 STUDENT: And then we were just wondering how you were able to navigate the politics of being an administrator. You kind of touched on it with how they gave "you need to work on this", but is there any other things that you had to work around?

LB: Mostly my administrative role, I just followed my heart. And sometimes that worked out, sometimes it didn't. I also went in with really, really trusting people. That's just who I am. That worked out sometimes, and that didn't work 01:09:00out sometimes. But I wasn't gonna change that. In terms of being a female administrator, I don't have anything that I felt as necessarily challenges from the prospective of being a female. Well, at that time, we had all women faculty. We actually talked about that as a faculty group, our lack of diversity and what that meant for us as a group. If we had been all male, we would have been challenged to increase our diversity. Being all female, we never were. But we 01:10:00did talk about what that meant for us, just in terms of curriculum development and who we were as a department, and what that meant for us. What was the rest of the question?

GROUP 3 STUDENT: How you were able to navigate this.

LB: Navigate, yeah. I had a wonderful, a very, very supportive dean. Tammy Bray was very, very supportive so I enjoyed working with her. And I put it as "working with her" because she was a supervisor, but definitely someone that was 01:11:00supportive of what we did.

GROUP 3 STUDENT: And then moving into OSU Extension, we saw that you had an appointment in the OSU Extension and we are wondering if you could explain that position. Was it research-based, or was it based around educating the surrounding community?

LB: Was this is ag experiment station appointment?

GROUP 3 STUDENT: Yes.

LB: So the ag experiment station appointment was research. I was part of an inner state-researchers from 8 states were involved. And because home economics was under the same moral act that provided funding to the ag experiment station, home ec was given a block amount of funding that then was distributed. And then 01:12:00there was federal funds for these regional research projects. So we received funding both from the college, but also funding, particularly travel and some other researching funding, federally from this grant that we had purposed. There were several projects. The first one was looking at dermatological issues with textiles, so health orientation to textiles. If you were allergic to nylon-it's a pretty common one-or you may have dermatitis because of wool. So it's looking at health issues with that.

We then went into, sort of, evolving of looking at the fabrics hand, how it feels, and how that affects people's perceptions, and then purchasing behaviors. 01:13:00So, again, it had a textile's but also a design and retailing piece to that. And we were specifically focused on cotton and wool, we looked at other fibers. So there was an agricultural aspect to it. And at that point, we were just starting-it was actually the beginning of my work looking at organic cotton and looking at some of the environmental pieces which, of course, then informed some of my work which I'm doing now. So we were just getting into the looking at some of the implications of organic, and consumer's perceptions of organic cotton.

GROUP 3 STUDENT: So you talked about, a little back, how your research has been integrated within the work you do now. So how were teachings at Oregon State and you research been integrated into your work at the Responsible Global Fashion LLC?

LB: Yeah. So when I left Oregon State in 2005, I started this business, as sort 01:14:00of my next chapter. Originally, I thought I would be doing consulting work with industry, specifically the Portland industry. I was teaching global sourcing and doing research around supply chain management, particularly around responsible supply chain management. And I had been doing lots of professional development work during my sabbatical year, but also afterwards I became a certified auditor. I'd done all kinds different things-it was kind of leading me in this direction. So that was kind of what my original thinking was. I had already had 01:15:00a contract with Fairchild to do the sustainability book so I was working on that. They knew me, but they, at the time, needed someone to do instructor's guides, learning modules, all kinds of different things related to teaching. I was also teaching online for the University of Delaware for their corporate social responsibility graduate certificate. I taught 2 courses for them that first year that I left OSU.

So I started doing instructor guides and manuals, and learning modules for different groups, and writing this book. It was keeping me very busy. I then got 01:16:00connected to Bloomsbury in London, and they starting this Bloomsbury fashion business cases. So they asked me to be editor and chief of that. I love creating something and then launching it. So, of course. I had been teaching-I taught retail management, I taught it as a case study course. I didn't know you didn't have to create your own case study so every term I taught, I created 7 new case studies. So I had lots of case studies that I could turn to for that launch. So truly Fairchild and Bloomsbury have kept me busy. I do a little bit of other 01:17:00consulting. I did some expert witness work which I don't like. So I don't have to do that anymore.

And I do some pro bono educational work, particularly with the OSU design network which is our alumni group in Portland. And they do programming, and I have volunteered and have done some educational programming with them specifically around sustainability. And yeah, it's simply a next chapter. The book writing, which is basically an integrative research, you take all of these work out there and you put it into a format that makes sense and that is 01:18:00understandable, and that it seemed simple but it never is. It's that integrative scholarly work. So my Business of Fashion just came out in early February. I have a case study book coming out in the summer. And then I'm currently doing research with Jeanne Carver who is a wool grower in central Oregon and we're doing a sustainable supply chain book. When I did the first sustainability book, I was doing lots of interviews. And I kept saying people need to tell these stories. People need to hear these amazing stories, so Jeanne being one of them.

I have a wonderful publisher in Bloomsbury. Pitched it to them, did the proposal. We're finishing our last interview in April. So we've been going to 01:19:00these different places. So this sustainable supply chain is focused on "place" and the importance of place in creating sustainable supply chains for fashion. And that'll be out in 2021.

GROUP 3 STUDENT: That sounds phenomenal. Based your book, can we see more ways in which sustainable ways can benefit our community with our fashion choices in it. I know you talked about place, but-

LB: Oh, where do I start. Ok, so I have a book on this. [Laughs] Yes, of course, it goes back to the basics of if you don't need it-first, as a consumer, do you need it? Secondly-then the next step is-does it need to be new? If you need it, can you rent it, can you buy second-hand, can you repurpose something, can you 01:20:00remodel something? Does it have to be new? And then if it does need to be, "ok yes it has to be new", then environmentally responsible and socially responsible choices. There's lots of companies out there. And then of purchasing things that have longevity of use, it's not just a wear and throw away, that you were it a long period of time, or wear and revamp it, upcycling it at the end so that you end up with a circular system. In a nutshell.

GROUP 3 STUDENT: So kind of going back a little bit of everything you said about the sustainability. With creating your company, how did you integrate, or did you integrate the sustainability aspects into it?

LB: Yeah. I mean, I have a website and that's basically all that I have. I have a Facebook page that I promote what I know, from the research, are practices of 01:21:00companies that are doing positive aspects around mostly environmental but also in social and cultural sustainability. I don't do anything negative. It is promoting what I view as really good work that's out there, and of getting that word out. Originally, the Facebook page was simply for me to be able to store this information so that I could pull it for writing. And people started finding it-I have no idea. So I do get questions from that every once in a while. But 01:22:00that's the focus of the Facebook page.

In terms of my own practices, I work out at my home, I walk. In terms of a company, it's just me. And I'm located in Corvallis, and I walk everywhere. Of course, when I'm doing my own as a consumer, you practice what you preach. Well, I'll show this to you afterwards. Yeah, I don't know if that answers your question.

GROUP 3 STUDENT: It absolutely did. And what setbacks did you face when you were 01:23:00trying to establish your company?

LB: Well, I wouldn't say "setbacks" but-so I created an website with Squarespace, they are the best ever. "I don't know how to do this" - "Here's what you do." They were wonderful. That's just a wonderful platform. I knew I needed to do social media and I didn't know anything about it. So I had an intern from Oregon State who had been doing social media plans for a number of different companies. She wanted to learn about corporate social responsibility in the fashion industry. I needed her expertise in social media. So she became my intern. We had contract of here's what we would share. I said "I need to make this official and socially responsible" and everything. And she'd lay out a 01:24:00social media plan for me. And she kept me on task. And it was something-in fact, I have received called -I'm one of her references. And then I would share with her all of these things I had. I had videos and we met for coffee once every month about corporate social responsibility and how she could integrate that into-she wanted to be-a social media brand manager. Because I didn't know what that all meant and what I needed, I did that.

And then after that, it was really just-someone asked me, "Did you get any work through your website?" Probably not. But I think one. There's sort of a 01:25:00legitimacy to it. It's a raw company. I do get some questions every once in a while. There's an info page that I get questions, mostly from students saying, "Tell me everything you know about sustainability cuz I have a paper due tomorrow." And I'll just give them the link to the book, and, "read this". So there really wasn't-I didn't quite know what to expect but it was exciting and it's been very rewarding.

GROUP 3 STUDENT: I love this story about how your kind of coach your intern, and your intern coached you. So what aspects of professional development are crucial for success within the fashion and clothing industry?

LB: I think one of the most important things for anyone within the fashion 01:26:00industry is to understand the full supply chain, from raw material to the consumer, and how your role regardless where it is affects everything else-one of the things I used to tell my students over and over and over again. And they would, "Yes, Dr. Burns, we get it." And I would get the evaluation "yes, we get it."

It's no matter where you are in that supply chain-first of all, you have to understand it and understand how your decisions affect others-and no matter what position you're in, you can make a difference. And it's by asking questions. If you're a designer, ask the questions about the materials. If you're a merchandizer, ask the questions about "how are we-", "where was it-", we need to 01:27:00be authentic in our transparency. It doesn't matter where you are. I had a former student who had an internship at Kroger. And she started asking questions about their sustainability practices. And this was probably out 10 years ago. Again, it made people kind of uncomfortable. She convened other like-mined young people. They created a task force and presented a sustainability plan to Kroger, which is Fred Meyer. And now it's a whole sustainability division.

I had a former student who was working in the Outdoor Industry Association. She's now the sustainability manage for the Outdoor Industry Association, asking them questions about outdoor gear and outdoor wear and the industry, and how 01:28:00they were promoting it. This was when she was just an assistant to an assistant. So no matter where you are in any kind of organization, you can make a difference. And you can ask the questions and convene like-minded people, and make proposals.

GROUP 3 STUDENT: So kind of talking about retirement now, are you satisfied with the accomplishments you made looking back? Do you miss anything now being in retirement?

LB: I miss my graduate students. [Pause] I think that's probably about it. [Laughs] I wish I could say "I really miss teaching undergraduate course." And part of that is coming out in my writing, cuz basically I'm teaching in a different way. But to be quite honest, when I hear about faculty being called in 01:29:00because something they did in class made students feel uncomfortable, I'm so glad I'm not teaching appearance, power, and society, cuz it made students feel uncomfortable. And it made them aware of who they are, and I would have been called in daily, I think. So that aspect of it, I'm kinda glad I'm not doing that. I would have had to change how my teaching and helping to bring students along of why you're feeling uncomfortable and what that means, just in terms of your own self-awareness.

It's simply a next chapter. I was very fortunate, very, very fortunate when I 01:30:00left Oregon State, that I could retire and take retirement. So I've had that. And I love what I do. I'm just gonna continue to do things. I'm taking a few things off my plate and I'm getting married in August. So another next chapter. Student 3: Yes. So with your chapter, writing. Obviously, you've become a very successful writer, authoring/co-authoring several books. What is the process of writing like for you? And this is gonna be group three's last question.

LB: Process of writing. There's a long, long process of getting a book to 01:31:00contract. That can take up to a year just to get it approved, the perspectives. And this is going through a not self-publishing, going through a publisher for an academic book. So this is all non-fiction. And through that process, you've had to formulate-basically you have to put a table of contents as well as a preface, and typically a sample chapter. So you've done a lot of the work ahead of time before you even start. But when I'm writing a chapter, I use that table of contents just as a guide. And I just start "dumping"-is probably the word I would use. And then I start reorganizing it, and reorganizing it, adding in 01:32:00what-sort of the logic-is that that I'm going to say, and how do I build that argument, or that logic. Once I have it pretty well-it's usually way too long. I have always a goal that when I'm writing that I write 5 good pages a day, used to do this back when I was even doing my dissertation. I would have a goal of how many pages I would write per day. Sometimes I'm done with those 5 good pages. Sometimes it's 5 o'clock and I'm working through those.

And then, once I have that done, I go back and I typically reorganize a bit more. I tend to work, and then I go walking. I don't realize how much is 01:33:00actually going on in my brain while I'm walking. But I'll do my power walking and come back. And it's clear. This organization just appears. And I don't know how it does, but it does. And I'd lose track of time-I'm in a zone. I can write and 4 hours later, I don't even realize that 4 hours have gone by. So it's just something that is just a process that I love. And I've had co-authors that is just a grind, that they'd do it but it's not an enjoyable process. It's really an enjoyable process for me.

CP: Just a couple minutes left, you have a follow-up you want to ask?

TIAH EDMUNSON-MORTON: I never have just one. Do you have a follow up?

CP: I do. It's kind of long, but I'm asking anyway. So this class has talked a lot about the history of home economics and the history of the college of home economics here. And we talked a lot about, too, the value of oral history being partly the ability to know what it was like to be in the room when a particular moment happened over a period of time. So you talked about dramatic change in the college, and change that ultimate led to dissolution, what was it like for you to have that experience and the conversations you're having with other faculty? Cuz it's not a normal situation for an academic to be going through that much change.

LB: We went through change continually. And we were asked to justify ourselves continually. So that piece I went through. I used to say I went through 5 01:35:00department name changes, and I was in 4 different colleges. So change was not new to us. And what was the second part?

CP: I'm interested in what was the experience like. It sounds like it was maybe par for the course after a little while, but the college ceased to exist at some point. It's a very significant rupture.

LB: I see. Yeah, so when the decision was made to have it an accredited college of public health was really, in my perspective, the decision point where then-I was at lots of meetings where-it was the question, "what do we do with design". It wasn't that there wasn't support. We have good programs, we were nationally 01:36:00ranked programs. We had large graduate program that the students were going out and doing wonderful things. So it wasn't about lack of support. It was "what do we do with it". And one point, we were going to stay within public health. Our research definitely fit that mission. And it was our undergraduate programs-I remember saying, "I just don't see apparel design students taking epidemiology." [Laughs] It was sort of the prescriptive of the accreditation, "this isn't gonna work. So then what do we do with design."

And, at the time, we actually went-there was groups us from business, engineering, and the design programs-visited the design schools at different places. And the idea was combing this design and engineer, and business as 01:37:00design thinking, and of design process. At the time, engineering had a very strong design group that we were already doing research with. On business, many of the marketing faculty had served on our graduate committees so there was already a lot of affiliation there. So we were looking at it as sort of the next evolution of the programs. And it was clear that was not the intend of the dean at the time.

CP: Alright, we're out of time. [Laughs] Thank you very much