Monte Campbell Oral History Interview, May 21, 2018

Chris Petersen: Today is May 21, 2018. We are in the Valley Library with Monte Campbell, who is class of 1953 and a very early graduate in physical education. I'm very happy to have you here and talk about your college experience.

Monte Campbell: Thank you.

CP: But we will begin at the beginning: so you were born in Medford, is that correct?

MC: Yes.

CP: But you did not grow up there?

MC: No. I grew up in Prospect, which was about 40, 45 miles north of Medford.

CP: Tell me about Prospect.

MC: Prospect was a town of--the city limit sign said 19, but it had little logging camps all around it, so probably 200, maybe. There were 85 kids in my high school, 17 in my graduating class--so a little tiny town.

CP: What drew your family to Prospect?

MC: Work. I was born in '31, and so they were still coming out of the depression. And my dad worked for the CCC, a government program. And so they 00:01:00probably went there for work.

CP: A storied program, the Civilian Conservation Corps, were there any particular projects that he was associated with that he was proud of?

MC: He worked mainly with crews that did work for the forest service. He was a crew leader. I can remember him talking about every Monday morning they went to Medford to pick their crews for the week. They could choose 20-22 people, and there would be hundreds lined up. That was tough. So he was gone during the week and came back on the weekend, usually, if he was out with a crew. Sometimes he was at home.

CP: Tell me more about your parents. What were their backgrounds?

MC: My dad was born in Eagle Point, Oregon, in 1900. And mom was born in a 00:02:00little place called Shady Cove in 1894. They were both raised in the Rogue River Valley and stayed there their whole lives. They did a little bit of traveling later on, but that was their home base. His father was killed when he was 3 years old. His father was killed on a runaway wagon in Eagle Point. His mother was left with 9 children. So she soon after that moved to a little town called Trail and ran a hotel, and it became a drugstore and a little market and that sort of thing. So he was really raised in Trail. That's even smaller than Prospect [laughs].

CP: [laughs] How about your mom?

MC: Mom was number 4 of 8 children. They stayed in the valley the whole time. Her father was born in Jacksonville, and his dad had been a pioneer that came during the mid-1800s and settled there. She left home I think when she was 18. She had gotten her what they called "go to normal school and get your teaching certificate." So she started teaching at 18 and stayed in the valley. And then she taught in Fort Klamath and other places, but she mainly was a valley girl [smiles and laughs].

CP: So what was it about Prospect specifically? Your dad had to drive 45 miles every week to do his work. Why Prospect? Why not Medford?

MC: Well, I hadn't thought about that. But it was a logging community, and I 00:04:00know that he eventually worked in the logging woods, drove CAT [Caterpillar] and construction work and that sort of thing. But he had built a house in Prospect when I was about a year old. That was definitely a steadying factor in their life. But he worked in the logging industry his whole life, after the CCC programs ended.

CP: Do you have any siblings?

MC: I had one brother 4 years old than I was. His name was Max.

CP: So what was it like for you to grow up in Prospect?

MC: Well, I think it was an idyllic childhood. It was so small that everybody knew everybody and the kids, my friends, were in and out of everybody's houses. All the parents knew all the kids, so you couldn't get away with anything 00:05:00[smiles], because your parents would find out.

It was in the summertime we walked to the river, which is about a mile away and swam and just played games outside all the time. My mom was kind of the local swimming teacher. We couldn't go to the river by ourselves until we were fourteen, so up until then Mom would take whoever was going to the river and teach them all to swim and come home and eat tomato sandwiches on svenska limpa bread [laughs]. And you know just play, be with your friends.

Glen Campbell: And your parents expanded the house and boarded students, right? In Prospect?

MC: Yeah, that and when the war came in 1941. A lot of the kids from Prospect 00:06:00High School were transported by bus prior to that. Because of rationing for gas they couldn't do that, so several people in Prospect boarded students from Trail and other little places. Mom and Dad took in 6 boys and 4 girls, and to do that Dad added a room on the house he had built. We called it "the Bunk House." That was where the boys stayed, and my brother was with them. And the girls stayed in the two bedrooms in the house, and I think Mom and Dad slept in the living room [laughs]. I don't know where I slept. But it was a good way to supplement their income. It was a lot of fun for me, because I was about 10 years old when that started, and to be around high school kids at the dinner table at night--it was fun.

CP: I'm sure a big change, too, given the size of the community that you lived in.

MC: [nods] Mmm-hmm. Yep. We used to run into those kids in Medford because that 00:07:00was the hub, and dad always had a couple cows. We would go to town on Saturdays to get feed and stuff for animals, and as I grew up we would be in Medford and see those kids that had boarded with folks and have conversations. It was fun to hear [laughs].

CP: I should mention for the record that Monte's son, Glen, is in the room with us as well. So that's the third voice that will show up from time to time. So, I'm interested in knowing more about the ways in which you might have intersected with logging culture. Do you have any memories of that? Your dad was involved with it. It sounds like it was surrounding you in your community. Do you remember going out to work camps or anything like that?

MC: Yes. Our house was kind of on the edge of town and the road to Hermann Brothers Mill went right past it. And Dad worked at Hermann Brothers Mill later. 00:08:00He was what they called a mill wright, so he oversaw the machinery and the saws and kept them in working condition and so forth. The people that owned the mill, the Hermanns was their name, had a son about our age. We socialized with them quite a bit, even though he was a mile away, which was quite a-ways [chuckles]. But we didn't spend a lot of time out at the mill. We knew the families that lived out there. There was another place called Allie's Camp where Dave's family came to when they came to Prospect, and it was the same thing: it had a mill, logging trucks coming and going day in and day out. That was the main income for people in Prospect. There were a few school teachers for the school and there 00:09:00was one general store, one service station. A second one had closed, which I had run when I was 15 [laughs]. Mrs. Pearson asked me if I wanted a job, which of course I did. And so she had a 3 or 4 cabins and a Shell station that had the glass tops with the pump [motions with hand]. So I did that one summer. I made $400 [smiles and laughs].

CP: Wow. Did you have any other jobs when you were growing up?

MC: Yeah. I babysat in the beginning when I was 12. That was, you know-- then I picked strawberries when I was 13. So I was really delighted when Mrs. Pearson wanted somebody to run the service station, because you made big money [laughs].

CP: Did you stick with that through high school?

MC: No. After that, I don't remember the next--well, I would have been a sophomore that summer. The junior year I don't remember that summer, but before 00:10:00my senior year I went to work with the Forest Service in the Ranger Station at Union Creek, which was 11 miles north of Prospect toward Crater Lake. I was a receptionist and the weather girl and so forth. The lookouts always were a man with college kids that were there for the summer. So that was my job: keeping in touch with them and dispatching people for fires. I did that for 5 summers while I was going to Oregon State. And believe it or not, I made enough money in the summer to finance my college. I wish I could remember exactly what tuition was, but I want to say it was like $1100 dollars for the whole year for everything, 00:11:00the dorm and everything.

CP: That's a familiar story: people talking about the summer jobs getting them all the way through college back in the day.

MC: [Nods].

CP: Backing up a little bit, so a strong theme of this interview is going to be your interest in being physically active. It sounds like that was just part of the youth culture in Prospect.

MC: [Nods] It was.

CP: Everybody was that way, basically.

MC: [Nods].

CP: So that's where that comes from for you?

MC: Yeah. And my mom was very physically active, and she had been the track coach at Prospect High School before I was born. That's all there was to do. There was no television or computers or anything, so you were out finding things to do. And there was always the summer baseball team for the men, and the kids played softball all the time outside. You know there weren't--I don't remember, 00:12:00like, there was no ice skating or anything like that, except when anything froze over we skated. And swimming. There was no organized PE in the school other than softball and basketball. We did have a gym in the high school, and honestly I can't remember if we played volleyball in high school or not. I don't remember it, but we may have. That grew to be one of my favorite sports.

CP: So your mom was, it sounds like, she was a little bit of an unusual person: she was the track coach, she was the swimming coach, and this is early 1900s.

MC: [smiles] Very early, yeah. Well, she was what I always kind of thought was a black sheep in her family because she was the middle child, and the women in those days had to be very proper. And my grandma was very straight laced, and my 00:13:00mom was free and easy and loved sports like I did. So she got out from under that restriction early, but she didn't marry until she was 26 or so. Dad was 6 years younger than she was, but they had grown up together, so she knew the family and everything. She was very active, and even in her later years one time with my kids (I think she was 65 or something) she wanted to play softball, and it was kind of touch and go. Then on her 75th birthday she asked to go swimming for her birthday, so we went to the Illinois River and took her swimming. I don't know if you remember that [talking towards Glen].

GC: Not a pool.

MC: [laughs and nods].

CP: So it sounds like you played some sports in high school. Were these organized or was this more recreational?

MC: It was just pick up, what we did.

CP: There was no opportunity then for organized sports?

MC: No, huh-uh [shakes head]. For the boys there was. In high school we traveled to Big Falls and Days Creek and little towns around to play sports, football (and it was 6-man football, not 11). It was around us all the time. That was a big part of the community activities.

CP: Was that a point of frustration for you? Not having more opportunity? Or was it just not something you really thought about?

MC: You know, I never thought about it then. I really didn't. I just-- it never occurred to me that it should be any different. So in the '60s when the Women's Movement got going, I thought, well, yes, where have I been? [Laughs].

CP: How about, in the broader sense, what was school like for you growing up?

MC: Easy, and interesting, and social--but the school was really the hub of the community. All of the activities centered around school. There was a strong PTA [Parent-Teacher Association] and the parents were really involved. There was a grade school in Prospect that had 1-8 [grade levels] and then the high school was 9-12 [grade levels]. I remember we had an eighth grade graduation. It was a big deal if you made it through that. My dad didn't even go to high school. He quit school at eighth grade to help with his mother and stuff. So it was still times when education wasn't generally expected to extend beyond high school, if 00:16:00that. By the time I got to high school it was during the war and the high school kids, the boys, were enlisting. My brother quit school to enlist early at 17, and that was very common. So it was, but school was very important to me. I liked being there and it was easy for me. I liked it. I liked everything about it.

CP: Did you have a vision of yourself as a college student for quite a while, or how did that happen?

MC: You know, I did because of Mom. She had taught for, I don't know, 6 or 7 years; I don't remember how long, maybe 10. She always talked to me when I was growing up, like "When you become a teacher," this. So it was just kind of in my brain, and Dad, I'm sure, supported that too. So that's just what I always 00:17:00thought I wanted be, and it worked out. Southern Oregon College wasn't too far from us, and so I just assumed I would go there. But mom really thought I needed to get away a little further, and she was right. She had been involved in home-extension, which probably started at Oregon State. They had units around in different communities, and the big unit was in Medford. But they sent people out to the little satellite communities, and through that she heard about all the programs up here. She came up here for different programs and things, and so she always had Oregon State in the conversation. So that's kind of how I ended up here.

CP: Did you visit the campus before you arrived?

MC: No [laughs]. No clue. That was a shock.

CP: Well, tell me about that shock. Tell me about transitioning from Prospect to Corvallis.

GC: A big city.

MC: [Laughs] Yeah. My high school principal, Charlie Funk was his name, wrote in my high school annual: "I think you'll do fine socially. Academically, I'm not so sure." That was a big support [shakes head and raises eyebrows]. But other teachers encouraged me. I did all of the registration and information-gathering on my own. My parents weren't involved in it, like I think about that with you and John [talking towards Glen]. So we got up here and I came with a girlfriend, Marie. Mom and Dad drove us, and her parents, and us and our belongings in a '49 two-door Chevy. So we drove up to Waldo Hall. I was thinking on the way up here 00:19:00what my parents must have been thinking dropping me off at a complete unknown. So they took us in and got us settled up on the third floor. And it was time for them to leave, and we were standing out in front of Waldo, and Dad was getting ready to drive away. Before he rolled up the window, he said, "Remember, eat every bean and pea on your plate" [laughs]. Sorry, I couldn't resist. So they were gone. It was just a complete culture that I couldn't-- I mean, it was Arma shawls and cashmere sweaters, and girls sneaking out of the dorm at night. I was just going by the rules. That stuff scared the heck out of me. But it was 00:20:00exciting too to be learning and seeing something new. So that's how it started.

CP: What do you remember about your initial impressions of campus?

MC: Big buildings--I mean the dorms and the campus, the mall, the quad. It was bigger than our town. It was a big adjustment. I feel like it took me two years, really, to get used to the whole atmosphere, the people, and the big city kids that knew what they were doing, and the dress, and the fact that you had to go to class every time it was scheduled. I didn't know that in the beginning [laughs]. But when the grades came I realized I should've gone more. So the grades came up after that. It was overwhelming, exciting. Having a friend there, 00:21:00Marie, was great. We didn't have all of our classes together, but we had each other at night. The communication back home was very important, and I wrote to my folks almost every day, and they did the same. So mail call, the mailboxes at the dorm, was a very important part of my life. I got a lot of mail from Mom, and I wish I kept those letters. I wish she'd kept mine. That would've been a great journal. But we couldn't call home because it was too expensive. You know we just did that maybe once a month or so. I think I went home one time during fall term, and I was supposed to arrive with Billy Hermann, the kid whose folks own the mill. At the last minute he cancelled. I was just devastated. So Marie 00:22:00and I rode the bus. We just had to go home. That was a good visit. I think we got off in Canyonville, and Mom and Dad came through the pass and met us over there. You know, once I had that little taste of home again--and knew it was still there and they could get along without me and all that stuff [smiles and laughs]--that was a big help. I didn't have that need quite so much after that.

CP: Well, I'm very interested to know more about Waldo Hall. This is a very important building in the history of this university. And I know you were only there for a year, but what do you remember about living there?

MC: The food, eating regular meals and gaining 15 pounds in the first term probably [laughs].

CP: Was the cafeteria in Waldo Hall?

MC: Uh-huh, yeah. That was great. The behavior of the girls, you know from 00:23:00Portland and the bigger towns, they were just so sophisticated and dressed so beautifully, and that was just a big adjustment. The dorm dances and the blind dates--you know they always lined you up with somebody so everybody could go. That was a big experience.

CP: I don't think I've heard about that before. Could you tell me more about that?

MC: [Laughs] Well, it seemed like we had a fall dance, a winter dance, and a spring dance. I have pictures of them with people I have no idea who they were. But the fraternities or other men's dorms probably is what it was. We would go together with them so we'd all have blind dates and meet people. It was just a 00:24:00good way to mix it up I guess [laughs]. You know the actual building itself--I don't have a sense of even whether it was wood and plaster or carpeted or tile. I just don't have a sense of it at all. We moved from the third floor down to the second the winter term and had a third roommate, a woman from Washington. It wasn't bunk beds, if I remember right. We all had a bed on the floor. But the actual building itself--I don't remember the interior that much.

CP: Do you remember there being a fireplace in the lounge that was important?

MC: [Shakes head] I don't even remember the lounge. Was there one [smiles]?

CP: At some point, yes. I'm not exactly sure when, but the students actually raised the money to build it and to build the fireplace.

MC: Oh. Well, when was it changed to office buildings? Do you remember what year?

CP: I think it ceased to be a residence in the '60s, and it was actually closed for a while. Then it became offices later on.

MC: [Nods] Okay, okay.

GC: When was it first built, do you know?

CP: 1909.

GC: So it was--I'm just trying to think how old it was when you there. Then it was--

MC: Yeah. Forty years old.

GC: Forty plus years old.

CP: Well, there were a great many rules that governed life for women, especially at Oregon State when you were there. We'll get into some of the specifics there, but you mentioned people sneaking out of the dorms?

MC: [Laughs].

CP: There were people that were trying to get around the rules?

MC: Uh-huh [smiles]. I obeyed the rules. I was always a good girl, and I was afraid not to. But there were a lot of them that did. And they would come back 00:26:00drunk and disheveled [laughs]. I was just aghast that they didn't follow the rules, that they weren't afraid. But [shrugs] they weren't. I don't even know if they got caught.

CP: Do you know what kinds of punishments there were for women who didn't follow the rules?

MC: [Shakes head] I have no idea.

CP: Yeah.

MC: They were probably grounded or restrained to the dorm for a period of time or something. I just don't remember. Maybe it's in this handbook.

CP: I learned recently about something called "late minutes." I don't know if that is a phrase that means anything to you.

MC: [Shakes head no].

CP: Well, we won't get into the specifics of that, then. Okay, so on the topic of rules we begin with the green ribbons.

MC: I remember that.

CP: How did you learn about these traditions in the first place? Was there a convocation at the--

MC: Yes, convocation. That was the word I was trying to remember. We had a lot of those. That was when we got that. Then we'd wear beanies on a certain day of the week or some when we were freshmen.

CP: The women did? I know the men did.

MC: Well, maybe it was just the men [shakes head]. We wore the ribbons.

CP: The women had a green ribbon, yeah.

MC: Okay.

GC: What was the green ribbon? I've never heard this.

MC: Just so they would know that we were freshman and rookies and could be mistreated [smiles]. No, I don't know. But I do think that there were probably razzings and things for freshman. I don't remember being mistreated.

CP: We referenced the curfews and the closed hours.

MC: Mm-hmm [nods]. I was always in on time.

CP: And that was a big deal?

MC: Yeah, big deal. Because if you didn't get in on time, how would you? You'd have to climb in [laughs]. No, I just was always in where I should be.

CP: Because they actually lock the door.

MC: [Nods] Mm-hmm.

CP: You had to sign out when you left town.

MC: [Nods] Mm-hm. And I was reading through the handbook: if you had a guest they had to sign in and sign out with you too, so they knew who was in the building and what your program was. Yep. They took care of us [smiles and laughs].

CP: At the sporting events, there was also gender segregation. Is that correct?

MC: You know, I saw that, and I just don't remember it. I don't remember that the women had to sit in a certain section. They must have if there was. I just don't remember it.

CP: Well, there was a rule about no fussing at sporting events.

MC: Fussing?

CP: Is that a term that rings a bell with you? Fussing?

MC: [Shakes head] No, huh-uh.

CP: I think essentially it means dating.

MC: Oh, well that's probably why it doesn't ring a bell. I didn't have any [laughs].

CP: Did you have any contact with the Dean of Women?

MC: No.

CP: Did you have any sense of what her position was?

MC: No. I just felt she was very powerful, and I didn't want to have to go there.

CP: So she was regarded to be a disciplinary figure, mostly.

MC: Yeah, mm-hmm. And I wouldn't have thought of going there for counseling or help. It was just, yeah [nods], a disciplinary figure.

CP: In terms of your academic progression, I think what we'll do is touch on certain bits and pieces of each year of your college career, and we'll track back and talk more in depth about physical education. But it sounds like you started out in journalism, is that correct?

MC: [Nods] Because PE wasn't a major. And I had done a lot of journalism in high school, and thought I enjoyed that. The first term of journalism I realized that it wasn't going to be for me, but I think that I held on until PE became a major.

CP: Right, so PE was a major at the University of Oregon your freshman year. 00:30:00This was a period of time where the curriculum was split in half between the two. Did you know that it was going to become a major at Oregon State, or was that just a happy accident?

MC: I don't remember. I don't know. It must have been a happy accident, but I never even thought about going to U of O.

GC: Okay. That what was going to be my follow-up question, is--

MC: It didn't even occur to me, because I was going to go to Oregon State.

CP: There was a PE curriculum, though. Everybody had to take some PE classes. So you were into that from the get-go.

MC: [Nods] Right away, yeah. I always took PE and was exposed to things that we hadn't had at Prospect, obviously. Like hockey was one thing. I don't know about volleyball. I can't remember that in high school. And badminton. You know everything there was available. Tennis. We got everything.

CP: And was this mostly through coursework? Or was this recreational, or both?

MC: In the beginning it was coursework, and then over time you developed an interest in one or more things and did it on your own, or-- But there were no organized teams, intercollegiate teams. It seems like there was intramural stuff, maybe it was through WRA [Women's Recreation Association] or one of those organizations, but we had organized teams. One time we traveled to Oregon for basketball, I remember. But I don't remember many others other than that.

CP: Tell me about the Women's Building, a very important building for you.

MC: [Nods] Yes it was.

CP: And for many other women.

MC: Well, the facility itself. I mean the indoor courts that we could use, and the interesting thing that just happened to come to mind--you know I spent a lot of time there over 4 years and knew all the instructors and everything, and in 00:32:00my senior year graduation was looming, Dr. Seen called me (she was the Dean of the school) and said that she couldn't find my records. You know I'm a senior [looks towards Glen].

GC: Oh, geez [laughs].

MC: And graduation, you know, Monte, is coming up [speaking as the Dean]. Well, I was just flabbergasted. I mean I had been here for four years and they didn't have my records. Well, they finally found them in the men's building, because of my name, Monte.

GC: Oh [laughs].

MC: Thank goodness--about a week before [shakes head]. So I graduated.

CP: So in the Women's Building we have a gymnasium, we have studios, we have a swimming pool.

MC: I was in the pool a lot [shakes head. Gosh, I would like to go back through that building. I just can't quite visualize all of it. It was all fun, I know 00:33:00that. I met some neat people. And there were other women there who were headed in the same direction I was, eventually. By our senior year we had all become good friends. I can't remember much about the building.

CP: The field behind the building was where all the women's outdoor recreation happened, is that correct?

MC: [Nods] Mm-hmm.

CP: So it was pretty much restricted to that space?

MC: [Nods] Mm-hmm. That was the first time I had ever played hockey, if I remember right [laughs]. It was a whole new experience, base--softball, I guess we call it. It was amazing to me that they had several fields and not just a field [smiles].

CP: Do you remember the opening of Gill Coliseum? It happened when you were a freshman.

MC: No. I don't remember if there was a big event, which I'm sure there was. I don't remember going to it. But I know that part of our duties as PE majors (or Orange-O, or whatever organization we were) was we ushered at all the basketball game and took turns doing that. So I saw all the games and I went to football games as far as I can remember too, but when was Reser Stadium built?

CP: Well, Parker Stadium was built in the late '50s, early '60s, I think.

MC: Parker?

GC: Yeah, that's what it was called.

MC: So they've renamed it?

GC: Yeah, it was Parker when I went here.

CP: I actually have it here--the last year for football was your senior year at Bell Field, so it was '53, '54.

MC: Okay.

GC: So it came right after.

MC: [Nods] Mm-hmm.

CP: So no big memories of Gill Coliseum?

MC: No, but--

CP: I'm sure it was an impressive structure to be inside.

MC: I think Slats Gill was still alive then.

CP: He was still the coach.

MC: Yeah. But I know that we had--it was a beautiful facility, and there were, like on Mom's Weekend, they would have big events, dance recitals, and that kind of thing held in Gill Coliseum. It seems like registration was held there at that time.

CP: It was.

MC: So it was, I know it was a beautiful big building. A lot going on [laughs].

CP: Was it important for you to go to sporting events? I mean, you were a PE major, but did you really thrive on that?

MC: Yeah, I liked it a lot. A lot of the guys that were in sports were in my anatomy classes and physiology. So I kind of knew them. Not as great friends or anything, but that made it a little nicer to see them play. But, yeah, I always 00:36:00liked sports.

CP: Did you ever attend any sporting events in the men's gymnasium? Were they still competing in there even after Gill opened? Perhaps the JV squad or the freshman team?

MC: No I don't think I did. I don't remember it.

CP: What do you remember about Bell Field?

MC: I don't remember that at all, except that I think that might have been where our orientation was. There was something like we had to go down there and do something called picking up "Paw-Paws" or whatever for initiation. And I'm pretty sure that's where it was.

CP: What is that?

MC: [Laughs] I think it was just one of those things they made freshman do. It was just some kind of a stupid game, but that's what it was called, "picking up Paw-Paws." I don't know what they were, I'm sorry [laughs].

GC: Well, did you go to football games when you went to college? Because they 00:37:00would have been at that Bell Field, right?

MC: I must have. I just don't remember that field. I mean, we're talking 65 years here.

CP: Well, your sophomore year you joined a sorority, or had you joined a sorority as a freshman?

MC: Mm-hm.

CP: It probably doesn't matter. But you lived in the sorority beginning your sophomore year, is that correct?

MC: I'm sure I joined because someone in women's PE was already a member and invited me, and my roommate, Marie. And the house was downtown. I can't tell you exactly where it was, but it was just an old house. Very small. And they were building the new AO π [Alpha Omicron Pi] house at that time. So we pledged the end of spring term, and when we came back as sophomores we moved into the new building.

CP: So was there a rush experience? Or is this somewhat different?

MC: There was a rush experience, but it seemed very small to me. I feel like I didn't go through rush like go around to a lot of houses. I think I was just invited to AO π and decided on that.

CP: So tell me about your experience in the sorority.

MC: Well, I loved it. Being from a little town I needed it for socialization and learn how to act in public and that sort of thing. It was a great feeling of comradery with the women. Being a new house on campus there were a lot of people that were new to the idea of sorority, but quite a few of the people who were alums from AOπ. I don't know if they were from this chapter or from somewhere 00:39:00else, but they were very active in our initiation, and our orientation, and rules and everything for the sorority.

CP: Were there any traditions that you remember being particularly important?

MC: Well, the initiation into the sorority was exciting. We had to wear a white formal. Luckily I had one from graduation from high school. There was a pledge ceremony and certain rules pledges had, and we had to do a lot of the work around the house so the seniors didn't have to do it. And initiation was formal, and I don't remember anything negative about that. It was all a positive experience. It was very small. I don't remember how many members we had at that 00:40:00time, maybe 20 or 30. Compared to the other bigger houses on campus it was very small. But it was very friendly. That was why I liked that group of women. They were very open and accepting of everybody.

CP: You mentioned learning how to act in public. Was there an emphasis placed on how one behaves at that sorts of things?

MC: It was based on that, but there was a house mother that kept us in tow, and we had to go to church on Sundays, and she supervised us. I mean we took turns taking her to church, I should say. That was--I hadn't been a church-goer much up until then, so that was a learning experience. And the dress code, they enforced that. We had to wear our pledge pin a certain way, and it was a little 00:41:00bit more formalized than the dorm life, but in a good way.

CP: So there was a dress code that was separate from the campus dress code?

MC: No. I think it was the same thing.

CP: And the required church attendance--this was to take this woman to the church and sit in church with her? So you had to go every weekend?

MC: We took turns, fortunately. We went to the Baptist church the last time I remember taking her. I didn't think about it at the time until I started going to church in my adult life and took communion every Sunday. But when we took her to church you couldn't take communion unless you were a member. So I can even remember thinking, well that's weird. [Shrugs] Anyway--

CP: Was there much in the way of interest in athletics amongst the members of 00:42:00the sorority? You said there was at least one person who was also a PE major.

MC: Yeah [nods].

CP: Was that something women in the sorority were interested in? or being physically active?

MC: Not really. They went to the sporting events and stuff. And I remember we used to do stuff out on the back lawn, tumbling and that kind of stuff, probably organized by me and Tiger, we called her (the other PE major). But I don't think there were any other majors other than the two of us. They were all interested in sports and stuff, but no majors, no PE majors other than us.

CP: You mentioned that you were a part of the women's PE club. Can you tell me more about that?

MC: I wish I could tell you more about it. I think that it was just a formal group to keep us interested in the field and know each other that are interested 00:43:00in becoming teachers. I don't remember if it was women's PE club or Orange O (which was kind of an honorary PE association) that are the ones that ushered at the games or not. I don't know which one it was.

CP: It was the PE club.

MC: Okay [laughs and smiles]. Thank you. So we probably did that all through our time here.

CP: Helping people find their seats?

MC: Uh-huh, and getting to see all the sports. I remember when I joined Orange O, I think that was my senior year, you had to have a certain type of blazer, and I got the material and sent it to mom and she made it for me [smiles and laughs]. Because she knew my size, you know she'd done all my sewing forever.

GC: Now could you have bought the blazer and the--?

MC: Yeah, but I couldn't afford it [laughs].

GC: Okay, that's what I wondered.

CP: It sounds like the PE club also held weekly teas in the Women's Building.

MC: I saw that--it's just a blank. It must have made a big impression on me [sarcasm].

CP: How about Pan-Hellenic? You were a part of that as well.

MC: Yes. And that was, it interesting for me, because the whole idea of Greek associations. You know in Prospect I never heard of such a thing. So to represent our sorority on that panel was an honor and to learn more about how other sororities rushed and chose members and what their rules were were all pretty similar, I think. But there was--I don't know if you call it a hierarchy, 00:45:00that's not the right word--but there were some sororities on campus that were the ones that everybody wanted to be in. Ours was not one of those. But it was becoming more accepted by my senior year. It was a very friendly group of women. But they were not rich or powerful. They were just good old everyday people [smiles].

GC: How much did it grow? So you stayed there three years?

MC: Yeah. I think there were, it seems like there were 15 when Marie and I joined. I think there were probably 40. Maybe I'm exaggerating, but 30 or 40 probably. But some of those sororities had 50 and 60 people.

CP: Rich and powerful sororities?

MC: [Smiles and grimaces] I shouldn't use that word, should I?

CP: Was there a dynamic like that amongst the Greek community, where some were regarded as being more powerful? What would that mean to be more powerful?

MC: I felt so. And I can't name them but they drew the elite for their membership and the scholastically talented. Just that alone made them a strong membership that had power on the campus.

CP: Occupying positions in student government, that sort of thing?

MC: [Nods] Mm-hmm.

CP: Do you have any memory of Benny Beaver showing up? Your senior year was his first appearance. Ken Austin put on the costume.

MC: [laughs].

GC: That's funny. The original Benny the Beaver.

MC: Benny the Beaver. Ken Austin [sighs]. What I'm thinking about is a visit we came up here with John. He was looking at a football team here, my grandson, and 00:47:00I have a picture with Benny the Beaver.

GC: I was wondering if I could pull it up, but I don't know if I'll be able to find it.

MC: You mention that name, Ken Austin, I just feel like this picture [looks at photo in hand outside of camera frame]. No it's not Ken Austin. This was a Pan-Hellenic group that I was in, or [flips over photograph in hand outside of camera frame]. No it was Freshman Picnic Committee in 1951. I don't remember. Anyway... No, I don't remember Ken Austin [laughs and smiles].

CP: How about graduation?

MC: Oh, wow, that was a big day. My parents came up here from Prospect. Actually, they had moved to Medford that year and left Prospect the first time in their lives, practically. But it was such an event for them because I was the first one of their kids that went, and I think only one other in either mom and 00:48:00dad's big families had gone to college, so it was a big event. I have a picture of them with me in front of the house that you can tell they're very proud. And it was the first [looks over at Glen]--did you find it?

GC: Uh-huh.

MC: [Laughs] I think I told you that our PE class was the first graduating class of women PE majors. I have a picture of all of them. I thought there were 17 but I may have--there may not have been [shakes head]--maybe it was 13. Anyway, it was quite an honor to graduate, especially since Dr. Seen finally found my records [laughs].

GC: Geez [laughs].

CP: Did you have any places that you hung out when you were in college? Besides 00:49:00the house?

MC: Not really. You know I wasn't a drinker, and I don't think alcohol was sold in Corvallis at that time. I think we used to go to Philomath. Some of the people that I dated probably drank, and we went to Philomath for some reason. That must have been it. But as far as the college hangouts, it was really at the house. There was a den, you know, it was kind of a hangout. That's where we gathered at the end of the day and in the evenings. So the local businesses--I didn't hang out in that much.

CP: Do you have any particular memories of the Memorial Union as being a place?

MC: Yes. The Memorial Union--the ballroom especially because they had terrific 00:50:00guest artists from the dances and stuff. My senior year I dated a guy that was a dance instructor, so we went to all the dances. That was wonderful. I saw Stan Kenton there [looks over at Glen and smiles]. You ever heard of Stan Kenton [laughs]? But, yeah, I did all that. I loved that, the dances. It was great. And you had to have a different formal for every one [smiles].

CP: Speaking of dances, do you remember Nickels hops?

MC: Yes. Bobby socks and all that stuff. We went. I don't remember much about them, except that we wore Bobby socks and pleated skirts and--

CP: So no shoes?

MC: Oh yeah. We wore sandal Oxfords.

CP: How about the annual carnival? Does that ring a bell?

MC: That does not ring a bell.

CP: Did you ever attend a play at the playhouse, the college playhouse? It was known as the Mitchell Playhouse.

MC: I don't think I did. I don't think I did.

CP: Kind of an odd-ball question, but what do you remember about smoking on campus?

MC: [Raises eyebrows] Mmmm. Well, it was a time when women were smoking, and I didn't smoke, but there was a smoker in our house. That was a smoking room. So the other women that smoked just worked on us non-smokers constantly, so finally my senior year I started smoking. I hated it [laughs].

CP: You were pressured into it?

MC: Yeah. I didn't drink either, and the underclassmen wanted me to drink so bad. So they took me out to Murphy's Beach [gestures over shoulder]. I don't know if you knew where that is, but that was a hangout. I forgot. Everybody'd 00:52:00take beer and everything and get drunk on Murphy's Beach, so they thought that was my opportunity. And sure enough it was. It only took me about 2 beers, but they were so proud of themselves. They got me drunk [laughs]. So the next morning I didn't feel very good, but they brought orange juice in bed I remember.

GC: Did you ever have a car in the time that you went to school here?

MC: [Shakes head] Nobody had cars. Well, maybe some of the guys. I think my senior year one woman, Sharon Martin from Eastern Oregon, had a car, but we just used the bus and walked everywhere.

CP: Did people smoke in class?

MC: No. I don't think so.

CP: So that wasn't allowed?

MC: I don't remember that at all. But the public was smoking in restaurants and everywhere.

CP: Do you remember any pinning serenades or pin planting serenades?

MC: Yeah. Unfortunately none for me, but--

CP: Can you tell me what they were? What is a pin planting ceremony serenade?

MC: Well, after a guy gave his pin to a girl--the way I remember it, they came to the sorority and serenaded her. His fraternity or group wherever he lived came, or maybe just a few of them came, and serenaded her. But I think she had the pin before that. That's what I thought.

CP: What did it mean to give your pin to somebody? Was that sort of like a pre-engagement?

MC: [Nods] Pre-engagement. That's what I thought mm-hmm [nods].

CP: So it was a big deal?

MC: [Nods] Mm-hmm. I'm sorry, but I had one pin planting that didn't go well. I 00:54:00had already graduated but was still dating a guy from campus. I was teaching in Turner, and he would come to the school dances over there because I always chaperoned. And I had a car then and he didn't, so after the dance we went out to get in the car and go home and my car wouldn't start. Well, he was not mechanically inclined, and neither was I so we were just lost. So while we were trying to decide what to do he opened the jockey box on my car and took out his pin and offered it to me. I was just mortified. I didn't accept it. It was very uncomfortable. It was a dead battery.

CP: [laughs] So back to the dress code for a second.

MC: [Laughs].

CP: My understanding is that women had to wear skirts or dresses on campus at 00:55:00all times, is that correct?

MC: [Nods] Mm-hmm. The fashion as I remember it was skirts and sweaters with Peter Pan collars and sometimes a scarf tied [motions with hands]. It was pretty standard.

CP: Was there a dress code or a uniform for sporting activities?

MC: Other than after I was in Orange O we had to wear that jacket, but I don't--

CP: How about when you were playing volleyball? I feel like I've seen photos of women in all whites.

MC: Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah, we had regular PE clothes for that.

CP: So you were just issued a uniform, basically?

MC: In fact, it seems like we had lockers in the Women's Building and kept our PE clothes there.

CP: Do you have any memory of the Talons and the Thanes? They were a group of sophomores who enforced the regulations on campus.

MC: An honorary--yeah, and they wore white didn't they? White uniforms?

CP: I believe the women did, yes.

MC: [Nods] Mm-hmm. I don't remember them enforcing anything on me [smiles], because I always went by the rules.

CP: Because you didn't break any rules [laughs].

GC: Was this like the morality police or something?

CP: In a way yes. How about homecoming?

MC: Homecoming. There was always a big dance and a big football game and lots of partying, but I wasn't much of a party girl, so I didn't--I just remember the dance part. I loved that. And the game.

CP: I've seen photos of (in front of a lot of the Greek houses) big scenes or motifs that they would make for homecoming.

MC: [Nods] Mm-hmm.

CP: Were you a part of that?

MC: [Shakes head] I don't remember it.

CP: How about the noise parade?

MC: I do not remember that at all, but the term sounds right. I should've remembered it. Was it held downtown or was it held on campus?

CP: I think both.

MC: Both, okay. I wasn't part of that, obviously.

CP: Let's switch over to PE in a more focused way. I'm interested in asking you about a few classes that you took, and the first would be Advanced Hygiene?

MC: Oh yes. I remember that very well because I feel like I was a freshman in spring term when I took that. In my day you knew nothing about hygiene, so I would go to class and come home to the dorm in shock and everybody would gather in my room and we'd go over what I'd learned that day, especially about the reproductive system. That was very interesting [laughs].

CP: So there was a sex ed [education] component to this?

MC: Yep, mm-hmm. Well, I don't know if they called it that, but we figured it out. Yeah, it was a new world.

CP: That's really interesting. So this was probably the first class in which this was discussed, I would imagine.

MC: It was for me.

CP: So that's what stands out about Advanced Hygiene?

MC: Definitely [laughs].

CP: How about sports officiating?

MC: I liked that. You know learning the other side of the game was interesting, so in a way it kind of helped the game itself. It just seems that we had to do all of the sports, to learn the rules and be prepared to officiate, because if you were going to teach it you had to be able to officiate it. But I don't know that I ever officiated sports on campus. Maybe some of the other girls did. I don't know what games they would have officiated. If there were intramurals or whatever, probably, but I don't believe that I did.

CP: Camp education?

MC: Yes. I have a picture of Mrs. Milliken. We went somewhere for camping instruction, and living in Prospect it was pretty much like camping my whole life. So it was a great education for me. Interestingly enough, when I moved about 5 years ago to a condo after my husband died and going through everything I found a group of pictures from this camping education trip that Mrs. Milliken taught, and in that group of pictures was a woman that I recognized that was in our church in Eugene, which I thought, gee, that looks like Dorus. So I took the group of pictures to her husband and he took it home. And it was Dorus--she had been a freshman in my class. And this is like 60 or more years ago, and she 01:00:00looks the same. I recognized her [smiles]. She was delighted. But I wasn't much of a camper until I got married. My husband's family camped a lot, so camping education was a new thing to me.

CP: Were you learning how to camp in the class?

MC: Yeah, but you know we had an outdoor toilet until I was 10 years old, so it was repetitive in a way, but we didn't cook outside I have to say that. So that was the sort of thing: how to get water and cook outside and build a fire. That sort of thing. It was good.

CP: Did the class go camping?

MC: Yes, we did, and it's somewhere close around here. Some creek, which I cannot remember. I didn't label any of these [pictures], but that's what we did.

CP: Athletic Training and Conditioning? Do you remember a class by that title?

MC: Mm-hmm [nods]. I loved it. I guess you would call it calisthenics. It was just kind of an overall program as I remember it--conditioning your body and staying fit.

CP: How about the more traditional education classes, where you're learning how to become a teacher?

MC: Mm-hmm.

CP: Were there any that made an impact on you? Or was that something you just needed to get through to get your credentials?

MC: The classes themselves were something you had to get through but the actual student teaching itself--I really picked up on it. I did my student teaching in 01:02:00Albany and rode with a couple other people who were teaching over there. The classes leading up to that were preliminary and not nearly as much fun as the actual student teaching. I remember my last day of student teaching Dr. Seen came over to observe, and that was nerve wracking. On the way home (we rode home together) all she said to me was: "You really love teaching, don't you?" I thought, well, good [smiles]. I did, too.

GC: What aged kids in Albany would it've been?

MC: It was high school, high school kids. Mrs. Parent was the PE teacher there.

CP: Did you have a minor?

MC: It was biology. I think you had to pick something, and my degree was Bachelor of Science with an education, maybe-- I don't know. Must have been biology.

CP: This was an era where you had to learn how to swim to get a diploma. I gather that was not difficult for you since you knew how to swim?

MC: [Shakes head] No it wasn't.

CP: This seems to me like it probably was a pretty big deal for some people.

MC: It was, especially people afraid of the water. No it wasn't for me. But I can remember discussions about that test when they had to jump in, and it was scary.

CP: What was the test?

MC: Well, jumping in the water for one thing and then swimming. But they were worried about it. I think it was just basic strokes and more of a--there wasn't anything about technique or anything like that as much as just being able to stay above water.

CP: Can you survive?

MC: [Laughs] yeah.

GC: Was it done in a pool? Or out in the--

MC: Yeah. No, it was done in the women's pool in the Women's Building.

CP: Was it part of a class, or was it something separate?

MC: I think it was separate, but it's hard to know that for sure. And I don't know anybody that didn't pass it, either. I think they all did.

CP: Do you remember the Seahorses Water Pageant?

MC: Yeah, I do. It was beautiful. I wasn't in it, but it was synchronized swimming, and it was beautiful [laughs].

CP: Do you know much about that tradition at all? I gather it was something they did like twice a year?

MC: [Shakes head] I don't know much about it.

CP: But you remember seeing them?

MC: Mm-hmm. I wasn't in it was I [laughs]?

CP: No, no I don't think so.

MC: [Laughs].

CP: I think they did one in the winter and one in the spring with--

MC: And we were probably required to go to anything like that, but it was very nice.

CP: You, being a PE major, or you, being a student?

MC: Being a PE major.

CP: Okay. Let's talk about some of the faculty in PE because there's some pretty big names that are still resonating on campus now, and the first one I want to ask you about is Betty Lynd Thompson. I don't know if you took any dance courses--

MC: Dance, yeah.

CP:--with her but she was there for a very long time.

MC: She taught modern dance, right?

CP: Yeah.

MC: Yes. I think she's the person who supervised--we had to do a presentation of modern dance on Mother's Day when mom came up my senior year. I don't know when she was on the faculty--if it was her or if it was another person.

CP: Well, she was around during your time.

MC: Yeah. But I loved modern dance, and I remember that presentation was really 01:06:00fun. But it was--in Prospect, I had never even heard of modern dance, so that was a whole new world.

GC: When you say presentation, did you have to like dance--

MC: [Nods] Yeah, yeah.

GC:--in front of a crowd or just teachers?

MC: No it was a presentation at, it seems like it was Gill Coliseum, for the parents, mothers, visiting and it was an organized program that we did. Interpretive dance is what it was.

CP: Do you remember Thompson at all as a person? Betty Lynd Thompson?

MC: Mmm-mm I don't. I'm sorry I don't. I just don't. Sorry.

CP: How about Ralph Coleman?

MC: Oh, was he the baseball coach?

CP: He was, yes.

MC: I have a crazy story about that that isn't pertinent to me, really. But my husband was a year behind me in high school and he was an excellent baseball 01:07:00player. He was still playing ball in Prospect when I came up here. So we probably went to baseball games here, and I think my second year here I realized that Dave should come to Oregon State and go to school. So I made an appointment with Ralph Coleman to go talk to him about getting Dave to play baseball, and I can imagine what he was thinking: "Oh this poor woman." But he went to Southern Oregon instead and played ball there [laughs]. But Ralph Coleman was very kind to me--didn't make fun of me or anything.

CP: Do you remember James Dixon?

MC: [Shakes head no].

CP: How about Claire Langton?

MC: No, Langton, no. Who are these people?

CP: Well, I think they were both faculty members and administrators in PE, but 01:08:00they were obviously men and probably didn't teach many classes that you would've been in. Dixon Recreation Center is named after Dickson, and Langton Hall is named after Langton now.

MC: Hmm-mm [shakes head]. No. I don't know them.

CP: Margaret Lumpkin?

MC: Yeah, I remember her. I took several classes from her. I can't remember which classes they were, but I liked her.

CP: Who was the faculty member that made a big impression? You've talked about Dr. Seen a couple of times.

MC: Dr. Seen really did. She was such a terrific woman. And Milliken too taught a lot of the classes that I took. There was, you know I don't have my annuals anymore, so I didn't go back and look through and refresh my memory about the staff, but I can't think of any other names right now other than those two.

CP: Were there any other classes that stood out that we haven't already talked about?

MC: I don't know the name of the class, but it was like a posture class-- or I don't know what it would've been called. It might have been a part of another class that either Lumpkin taught or a student teacher, but I remember that for some reason.

CP: What do you mean by posture class?

MC: Well, your bearing, the way you carry yourself, and the importance of good posture and relaxation and that sort of thing.

CP: Were there exercises to try to improve your posture?

MC: Mm-hmm [nods].

CP: Interesting.

MC: Yeah.

GC: Was that like a health thing or more of a women's cultural thing?

MC: It might have been a health thing.

CP: PE had a connection with the athletic department, and, again, this might be a gendered thing, but I don't know if you have any memories of Spec Keene who was the athletic director at the time.

MC: I remember the name. I don't remember anything about him particularly.

CP: How about with the Student Health Service?

MC: I don't even know where it was. I don't think I ever went there [laughs].

CP: Let's talk about intramurals. I'm interested in--you told me that you played everything basically. So, how was it organized? Fall came around and it was time for intramurals. How did you get into a program?

MC: I think the intramurals were probably started in the Women's Building but were probably managed and run by senior members of the PE department. As I remember it, it was just whoever wanted to try out could try out or play, which 01:11:00I did in basketball. The only time I remember ever leaving the area was we went and played at Oregon one time in basketball. Other than that it was just stuff in the Women's Building.

CP: I'm interested in that trip to Oregon. So this was a team, and you had been competing on campus as a team? Or was this like an all-star team?

MC: [laughs] It wasn't an all-star team, believe me. It was probably just a pick up team. And we went down there and theirs may have been the same. It was not very professional. As far as I know just the two of us did it for fun. It wasn't anything that the winner was going to go on to another school or whatever.

CP: So I've read that--and I gather that this was not the case in this 01:12:00instance--but I've read that sometimes when universities would get together they would actually mix the squads up between the two because it lessened the competitive spirit a little bit.

MC: [smiles] Mm-hmm. They didn't do that in ours. We kept it.

GC: Was the game indoor or outdoor? Was it like in Mac [McArthur] Court?

MC: No it was indoor, in their women's building probably.

CP: So you played basketball, volleyball, field hockey, badminton, these are all things that you--

MC: Softball--

CP: Softball-- and how large was the community of people that were involved with this? Were there multiple teams that would play each other over the course of a season, or was it more like pickup games?

MC: It was just pick up games. It didn't seem very organized.

CP: So you would get together and then you would just choose teams at that point?

MC: [Nods] Yeah, that's the way I remember it. It wasn't very competitive. It was more for fun.

CP: How often would you play? Do you remember? Was it once a week, roughly?

MC: I don't know. I feel like it was once a week, but it seems to me like all I ever did was sports and play, so I was doing it all the time. I don't know [smiles].

CP: And there were about 17 women in your graduating class, so I'm guessing that was the nucleus of the intramural program as well.

MC: And there would be underclassmen involved too, but--

CP: Back to basketball, real quick. This was a different type of basketball.

MC: Yeah.

CP: Can you explain how it worked back then?

MC: Yes, we played half court and we forwards and guards. The guards could only 01:14:00get the ball and dribble up to the line and pass to the forwards and they made the baskets.

CP: And then you would start over at half court again after that?

MC: Uh-huh [nods]. I think it changed not too long after that. I don't remember when that changed, but it was very different.

GC: Were you a guard or a forward?

MC: I was a guard, but in Prospect I was a forward [laughs].

CP: [laughs] There were intramural sports during this time period that one might associate more with games now. Things like jacks and crochet and ping-pong. Do you remember any of that?

MC: I didn't do any of it.

CP: Do you remember it happening?

MC: I remember seeing it happening. It seems like it was maybe in the MU some of it.

CP: Uh-huh.

MC: Maybe it was in the men or women's buildings, but I didn't do it.

CP: Just weren't interested?

MC: [Shakes head and laughs]. There was some studying to be done, you know?

CP: I'm sure. Tell me about the Women's Recreation Association. They were running the show it sounds like during this time. Is that correct?

MC: Yeah. I felt like it was a real honor to be in it. I don't know if it was. Maybe just everybody that could was in it. I suppose we had regular meetings, and I don't remember a lot about the organization of it. But we probably refed intramural games, had that responsibility, maybe organized the intramurals. It's pretty vague.

CP: Mm-hmm.

GC: I don't know if you mind me asking, but I'm curious about the culture just of women participating in sports. Were you like an outcast for doing that or was there a stigma about you playing basketball or volleyball or--

CP: That was actually my next question.

MC: Mmm.

GC: --was it fine?

MC: I don't remember it being a stigma. I don't know if this is the place to mention it, but the image the public had of women PE teachers was that they were all lesbians. I think stayed for many years even after I left. So I know that there were a lot of women in my class who were, but never mentioned it. Kept it to themselves. It was still that period of time, which is too bad. Maybe from that standpoint women in athletics there was that stigma, but other than that I never felt like playing affected me that way, that there was any stigma about my participation.

CP: So this is really interesting. So it was understood that these women were lesbians. They didn't talk about it, though, it was just--

MC: No, never.

CP: Because this was a long time ago before this was the sort of thing that one would talk about.

MC: Oh yeah. And looking back some of my really good friends were gay, but I was pretty naïve and I didn't realize until later on that they were living a life that they shouldn't have to live. So they couldn't talk about it.

CP: So aside from the camping class did you do anything else that might be associated with the outdoors recreationally? There are a lot of stories about students spending time at Marys Peak or on Marys River as part of what they did 01:18:00for fun.

MC: You know I never, ever went to Mary's Peak. I bet they were drinking parties [laughs].

CP: [laughs] Alright, well let's move on from Oregon State to post Oregon State. You finished up, you graduated, and then you started your teaching career. We talked on the phone that you had to do some continuing education afterwards. You want to take me through that time period?

MC: Mm-hmm [nods]. It was a requirement called you had to get a fifth year certificate within five years to continue teaching. So I did that. I think the first summer or two I went to Oregon summer school, because I had friends that lived down there. Then I went to Boulder University of Colorado one summer just to get out of town. I went to Hawaii to school one summer and took Lifesaving 01:19:00and History of Hawaii. That was tough. Tried to expand my horizons a little bit and got my fifth year certificate. By that time I had been teaching four or five years probably and realized that my real interest was going to be in counseling, because I couldn't be a PE teacher my whole life. You can't keep it up probably. So my classes had begun to go in that direction, and that's sort of where I was headed. I did get my fifth-year certificate. I never got my master's. I had the hours, but I just didn't do the final orals.

CP: What was the transition like for you becoming a teacher, these five years that you were a PE teacher? What was that time period like?

MC: The transition you mean from college to that teaching actually?

CP: Applying what you had learned and--

MC: Okay. It was fabulous. You finally got to do what you wanted to do and knew 01:20:00how to do and at the high school level I loved that age of kids. It was just terrific. I loved it.

CP: And these are girls where, again, this is their only real outlet for physical activity.

MC: [Nods] Mm-hmm, and I was so young. At that time they were probably four or five years younger than I was, so it was just like being one of the kids. Plus they were learning. It was great. And PE was not a common thing in a smaller school like Turner, so they had had a PE teacher who stayed in the school after I came and she was teaching English too. So they had had a PE but I don't think it was--she hadn't been trained as a PE teacher, so it might have been a little 01:21:00bit different. Anyway, it was a lot of fun.

CP: So you were heading the direction of counseling, but that didn't happen?

MC: No. Well, I left Cascade after three years and went to Springfield. My husband was finishing up at Southern Oregon (well, he wasn't my husband yet). So he came to Eugene to teach, and we got married in '57. In order to keep teaching I had to live in the town where I was teaching, and I think that was just a rule everywhere. Obviously I quit my job because he was teaching in Eugene and had to live there. So I substituted a lot for the next two or three years and quit 01:22:00teaching full time, which I missed.

CP: And became a mom.

MC: [Nods] Mm-hmm. Yep. See what happened there [smiles].

GC: Had her hands full.

MC: Yeah [laughs].

CP: You developed an interesting second career though in sewing. I was very curious to hear about this because your curriculum was not in home economics curriculum at all. You obviously knew how to sew, but it sounds to me like you were doing some very specific types of sewing.

MC: I was. My mom had done all my sewing, and I don't think I had a purchased coat until I was 11 or 12 years old. And then when I was teaching in Cascade I lived in Salem and my roommate was a seamstress, and mom could never teach me to sew because it drove her crazy. So my roommate helped me make an apron. I made 01:23:00it for Mom for Mother's Day. I can remember sending it to her, and I know she looked at every seam. Anyway, I loved it and so when the kids started arriving the thing then was knit sewing, and it was kind of new. The fabric was new. So I would buy remnants and make their t-shirts and stuff. Simple stuff, but fun. I just kept doing that and gradually took classes on how to sew knits and then started teaching that for like fabric wholesalers or other sewing shops. I did that in the evening when the kids were little for a long time. I even ended up doing men's tailoring and polyester [raises eyebrows].

CP: [Laughs].

MC: My husband luckily would wear any polyester coat I made him in my tailoring 01:24:00class, so he was well-dressed. Anyway, that was a lot of fun. I did that for about 5 years, I think. I ended up getting into designing ski wear and writing patterns and did that for the Green Pepper fabric shop.

CP: And this was early on in ski culture in Western Oregon.

MC: [Nods] Mm-hmm. I think people could buy, maybe through big companies, they could buy kits to put a parka together, but we had the fabric and were designing instructions so they could do it there. I taught classes there too on putting zippers in and that sort of thing.

GC: And you could use Bryan as a test model, right?

MC: Our middle son, Bryan, was a skier, so my job was writing instructions and improving the pattern to be sure that it worked together and a person could 01:25:00follow it. I worked with another gal. So we made them in Bryan's size so that he could test them on slopes. He was very happy about that [smiles].

CP: Did this come fairly naturally to you? I'm struck by how quickly you went from novice to instructor and somebody who's making patterns.

MC: It did. Because it had to be exact, and I was particular about making the seams match and the plaids match, and so it was an easy transition from knit sewing to fabric.

CP: Well at some point you began five-years as a secretary for a school district and then you got into real estate.

MC: Mm-hmm [nods].

CP: So a couple other shifts in the story of your life.

MC: [Laughs] Yeah. Well, I was still working at the Green Pepper Fabric when the kids were in high school and graduating, and I knew that when they were gone I didn't want to stay home all the time, so I wanted to get a job. That was hard for my husband to accept. He didn't think it was a good idea. So we thought maybe part time would work. So I applied for this job at the school district, and the first job that came open that I was offered was full time at the Lane ESD [Education Service District], and we talked it over and it was just too much [laughs]. So the next job that came up was half time just for a month while somebody took a leave at 4J [school district]. So that was okay. I took that job 01:27:00as a receptionist, and that person never came back. So I was there for five years, and during that time I got my real estate license and did that from then on.

CP: Tell me about real estate.

MC: Well, it was very educational for me and the whole family because I had never been in business and I had no clue what I was getting into, but again it was kind of a service industry, public relations thing like teaching. I am more of a people person, and I just thought it would be great. So I got my license, and I did not activate it for a year and a half because Dave's dad was really sick and we were occupied with him quite a bit, so when I finally activated my 01:28:00license it did turn out to be a 50-70 hour a week job in the beginning. The year I started was '83, which was a terrible time in the market. But I had no clue. I just started selling real estate [laughs]. It took me 6 months to sell something. When people would ask how I was doing Dave would say, "Oh, yeah, her social work's going great. She's a good social worker" [laughs]. I don't think I sold anything for about 6 months. Then I had a large circle in the school district and other friends. Gradually you build up a sphere, and it took about 5 years to get comfortable where I didn't have to just kill myself all the time. 01:29:00So it became fun again. Go get me some more water, would you? [Talking to Glen].

GC: Do you want to share? Is that acceptable?

MC: Yeah, of course.

GC: How many years into it when you were voted realtor of the year in the Eugene Association?

MC: That was '94, so it was 10 or 11 years. That was not based on production. It was based on your activity within the realtor's association and the way you worked with people and that sort of thing. That was a big surprise.

GC: It was nice. They had a luncheon, a big crowd of people, and she didn't know the award was coming.

MC: You know what I remember about that? Is that the master of ceremonies--I don't remember who it was--brought one of my examples of my stretch sewing. I 01:30:00had also taught lingerie classes, so I had made Dave a pair of shorts in red, white, and blue [giggles]. I think he was a little bit shocked. Anyway...

CP: Your husband was a teacher, is that correct?

MC: [Nods] Mm-hmm. An elementary principal.

CP: So you got away from PE, obviously, but you still had an interest in being physically active? Tell me about how that progressed over the decades that came.

MC: Well, I played tennis all the time until I tore the cartilage in my knee. But we played tennis almost every day once the kids were in school. [Looks over at Glen] Cathy Morrison. Then there was a volleyball league, city volleyball league. I did that for quite a long time. We were an active family. All the kids 01:31:00were playing sports and we went to all of that and we camped a lot. Dave and Bryan skied. The other two boys never skied much, but I think Bryan skied until he broke both of his legs. So we were just active and stuff all the time. Dave played sort of a city league baseball for a long time. I don't know if he did it after you were involved [looks over at Glen]. But both Glen and Scott were baseball pitchers, so we went to a lot of ball games.

CP: And you mentioned in the '60s the Women's Movement starts to pick up some momentum. Title IX arrives and now we're in a very different place for women's athletics. What's that like for you to reflect on?

MC: Well, you know I was pretty naïve. But I didn't realize when I was teaching that it wasn't fair--that I had to take the upstairs gym and the guys got the 01:32:00big gym. It was just the way it was. So the Women's Movement and Title IX really opened up doors, and girls were able to participate in competitive sports and be recognized that way. So I missed that, but it was fun to watch it. And, by the way, Oregon softball is doing great right now, I've noticed [laughs]. I was glad to see it happen, I'd say. But I didn't resent it when I was in the midst of it.

GC: All of your granddaughters have played sports that just seemed like second nature, or whatever. Don't really think about it being a thing.

MC: Yeah, they're all very - expected, yeah.

CP: Did you maintain a connection with Oregon State in the years that followed?

MC: Not really. The sorority that I belonged to, AOπ, left campus sometime I don't know exactly when. Up until it left I always came back for their annual tea or whatever they had, but I haven't been active in the alumni association at all.

CP: Was there anything else that you'd like to include in this interview, either about your Oregon State years or about anything at all?

MC: Well, they were great years as far as my Oregon State time. I think one of the things that I remember when I decided to teach where I did is I always felt like all through school there had been somebody that helped me get where I was, like mom through extension. She knew people that lived up here. In fact, one of 01:34:00the AO π alums happened to be someone Mom had known in extension. So when I graduated, I really wanted to see if I could make it on my own, and that's why I chose Cascade. Because women that year the schools hadn't had women PE teachers as such, so we could pretty much go wherever we wanted. But that sounded--isolated, small community. So that's why I chose it. And it was a really good fit. I liked it. As far as memories about Oregon State, Glen came here for 1 or 2 years and his daughter graduated from here and got her nursing degree, and his son's fiancé is an Oregon State graduate, so it's in our blood. We've all got Oregon State beaver clothes.

GC: I was going to ask you to just comment on your thoughts on education, because we all grew up in an environment with you and dad. It was always assumed and known that it was important to you, and you guys established college funds for all of your grandkids to try to help them to be able to do that if that was something they chose to do. So, I just thought I'd ask you to comment on what an education means to you and dad and how did you try to foster it in your family?

MC: Well, it really changed our lives, because my husband was born in Missouri number 6 of 7 kids, and they left Missouri when he was four and just did this. And by the time he ended up in Prospect as a junior in high school he had been in sixteen schools. And then his family left there again his senior year. But a 01:36:00local man wanted him to stay and play baseball, so he graduated there. So he had a need of stability and he was very smart and knew how important education was. So he got his elementary degree at Southern Oregon and played sports there too. And I had always wanted to be a teacher. My mom's sister had gone to college. She was the only person that I knew, other than the teachers at Prospect who had been to college. So we just could see that it was a door to a new life, and we knew that it was really important for our own kids. The oldest son went to Southern Oregon for a couple of years and then went into the Navy and the middle son chose to not go to college and then Glen went to Oregon State. And I don't 01:37:00know how many of the grandkids have gone to college. Quite a few [looks at Glen].

GC: --.count them up later on.

MC: Anyway, it's a very important part of our life.

CP: Well, Monte thank you very much for this. This has been a lot of fun. I appreciate you, and Glen, coming to visit us and to share your story and the best of luck as time moves forward.

MC: Thank you very much.