Fred Milton Family Oral History Interview, February 19, 2016



DP: Alright, it’s February 19, 2016. I am here in the room with Loretta Milton, Zalika Gardner, and Isaiah Adams. And, myself, I am Dwaine Plaza, I’m doing some of the interviewing and I am accompanied also by Natalia Fernández. And this afternoon we’re going to spend our time really focused on the life of Fred Milton. But, we would also like to hear a little bit about you, Loretta. So can you just think back to your early days here at Oregon State University and just some background information on yourself, as much as you’d like to share.

LM: I came up to Oregon State University as a freshman pretty, pretty naïve, and pretty un-acculturated to, to the big huge university, so I was kind of scared of, kind of timid. I came from Roseburg, Roseburg, Oregon, we were the, 00:01:00the “Roseburg Indians” - we had caricatures of Indians emblazoned on, you know lots of places which were not kind to the Native American people. You know, Roseburg was pretty monocultural, and I was not exposed to much of any diversity coming from Roseburg. So, landing here at OSU, so I was, went through rush -they had the sororities had these rush, it’s called Rush Week, and you interview with all the sororities, and so I finally -that was actually my sophomore year 00:02:00maybe, I joined the Delta Delta Delta sorority, so I was a --- so, when was it that I met Fred? I had a cousin, her name was Louise, she had an apartment, and her friend knew Mel Easley, who was a football player on, on the OSU team so she had invited him to come and, and so Mel was buddies with Fred. I think they actually lived together. And so Fred came along to that get together and that’s when I met him. So, that was, gosh,'60,'67 I think.

DP:'67, okay.

LM: And'67 was the year that the Giant Killers.

DP: That was a big year.

LM: The football team, you know, gained that reputation for beating USC, beating Purdue, I think it was.

DP: Yeah, Purdue.

LM: Yeah, and so they were, they were, big men on campus, you know [laughs] and yeah, so, so after, gosh, after that meeting, you know we started dating, and it was kind of being -it was also blazing a trail that hadn’t been, wasn’t very, very approved of by, by the greater society. Interracial marriage had been 00:04:00outlawed, you know, a few years previous to that. My family was absolutely aghast.

DP: When they found out...

LM: And, they, you know, anyway, but we persevered and married in December of 1969, which was the same year that all of this happened.

ZG: That’s a big year.

LM: Oh, my gosh.

ZG and LM: [laughter]

LM: So, but previous to that, I, I was kind of on the periphery of, of what was going on with the BSU and, so you know, so it was almost, almost mind boggling really. And so I, I started collecting, you know, gosh, all these news articles that were happening, that were being reported. So I just busied, busied myself 00:05:00collecting all these articles and what else should I add? Then, after the march/walkout, then Fred went up to Portland and he was helped by Reverend Wallace of the Maranatha Church up there to find, you know, a place. And, oh gosh, and then I, I student taught, I was in the Education Department, and so my student teaching happened at Raleigh Park School which was in west, southwest Portland. So, yeah Fred would come up and visit me from time to time, from, 00:06:00well, was he? Yeah, he, my memory...

DP: That’s okay, take your time, take a break.

LM: Yeah, he would come and visit me there. And then,'69, he transferred down to Utah State University. They gave him a scholarship to, a football scholarship to Utah State University. And so after we were married in, in December of'69, then we went down to Utah. Which is an even...

DP: Whiter place

LM and ZG: [laughter]

LM: Yeah, yeah, so, yeah. So, Utah. Oh, gosh. So I, I was a -they had a, they had an education laboratory, laboratories school on that campus. It was called 00:07:00the Edith Bowen Lab School. And so I went there as a, I think I was an aide, so a teacher’s aide there, so that’s what I did while we were in Utah. And, and Fred was, you know, going to school, and we had an apartment. And I remember one time, oh, oh wait, okay, also, I was hired by this business forums cooperation called, I can’t remember the name, but it was, they, they created business forums. And so they, so I went to work for them, and I remember, they had us siting at these drafting tables and apparently, so when I left work, when I left 00:08:00work one, one evening, Fred picked me up from work, and I think somebody saw he and I together and a couple days later, I, I got fired from that job [laughs] -so yeah. So, so that was a little bit traumatic, but, but Fred persevered and got through school. Then he was recruited by the Montreal Alouettes, a Canadian football team. And so we traveled up to Montreal, Canada. And he played for the Alouettes there. And that was, that was quite an adventure [laughs]

DP: Especially the warm weather, right? Warm winters...

LM: [laughs] Yes. So eventually, so I worked as a waitress while he was doing 00:09:00the football thing, and he, he finally decided that it was just not going to work out. He felt like they were kind of treating, treating everybody like cattle, you know, these, these athletes were kind of treated like cattle; I remember him saying, “We’re treated like cattle.” And he had a very, very heighted sense of his, his, of himself, and that was not good for, for him to have to endure. So, so we traveled by car with a U-Haul trailer back to Portland, Oregon, and that’s where we lived -we had an apartment in northeast 00:10:00Portland. And he, he got a job working for the police as a community.

DP: Liaison?

LM: Liaison person. Yes. And, okay, so every -so I do remember him, you know, mentioning about, you know, not wanting to be out at night, certain, because, you know, because the likelihood of getting arrested, driving while Black, or, was you know, a real reality, even, even, you know, back then. So, what should I say next? Then he got a job with IBM. And he was the president of his class. The 00:11:00president of, of the beginning sales people that they had hired and so, that, that leadership quality was always, always there. Okay, so, he, he worked for IBM, he was a sales person; at times he would have to travel up to Seattle for that. Then, I’m trying to think when we had, when we had you [laughs] when we had you.

ZG: Well, I feel like I remember some reference to Seattle traveling when I was 00:12:00in existence, so must have been something...

LM: Okay, so that must have been before -yeah, so in, so in 1973, we had our first child. And, yeah, and I was trying to, was I working at the time? Anyway, so, so, okay, so then, that was...yeah, oh! and we got our first home in Portland shortly after, after, you must have been about two, two and a half when we moved to our North Baldwin address. And then we had, oh, then we moved again, 00:13:00and then we had Mandesa, my second daughter in 1976. And Fred was working for, I think he might have been working for city government by then. So, he worked, gosh, my brain is, can I take a break? [laughs]

DP: It’s okay. Sure, okay. I’m going to.

LM: Take a break.

DP: Sure, you can take a break, and I’ll, I’ll ask Zalika to just talk a little bit about your dad, your recollections of your dad. What kind of man was he like?

ZG: He was funny, which still makes me laugh, because he seems very serious, like he, you know, you don’t want to mess with him, right? But he’s actually goofy. And very warm and very wise. He didn’t, he would either, I mean all the 00:14:00way through my life, but especially as I got older, he would listen, and kind of, when I was younger he would puff on his pipe -but then he quit smoking. But, he would listen and then he had an amazing ability to analyze and understand people and understand situations and give me a different viewpoint on things. He, he just would decide, which is I think where I get it from, but he just would decide things like, “there not a volleyball club for my daughters to play in, I’m going to make one” and do it [laughs] okay. Or, whatever it was, I mean he just, and he had the ability to tell, he, he knew history, like 00:15:00he knew the stories of things and he enjoyed sharing the stories of things and how they, this connected to this, why this mattered, and he really wanted us to understand those things. I remember him really specifically talking about, you know, being mixed, like I don’t know how much you and dad talked about it, because you know, obviously that was not in my earshot, but I remember my dad being very actively talking about “this is the world sees you in this way” like “I want you to understand what this is and, and who you are” and that kind of thing, in a very direct manner, which I’ve always appreciated so much. Growing up, he was very, I’ve said this before, like he was a very understated person about his own accomplishments, right? Like, he won stuff from when he was really young, you know, really incredibly talented athletically and he loved 00:16:00sports, but you wouldn’t know that about him necessarily. If you sat next to him which you would know is he was analyzing the way that, you know, “that was, this is an incredible athlete; look at the jump on this” you know, he was a student of sport, but he never talked about his own stuff.

DP: Athletic abilities?

ZG: Right, his own exploits. He, we knew growing up that he had stories from when he was younger and when he was in Arkansas, in Pasco, but he, he told them, he told them in a way that was like, when we would say something like, “I’m starving!” and he’d be like, “Starving is when you have to go kill a squirrel.” [laughter] “You are not starving,” you know, things like that, where

DP: The right perspective for you.

ZG: Right!? [laughter] To gain some perspective. He was very, very proud of his 00:17:00dad and the journey that his dad had taken to change circumstance. And he was very aware that his circumstance was dependent upon his father’s courage and that those values like courage, loyalty, family, were like almost entities in themselves in our house I feel like. It was very clear to us.

DP: I understand his dad was a sharecropper, right?

ZG: Yeah.

DP: Worked in Arkansas. Do you, did he, did you ever meet your grandfather?

ZG: Oh, yeah.

DP: Okay, so what characteristics do you think that your grandfather had, as a man who came out of the South and eventually got his family into the West. If I understand, he came from Tri-Cities?

ZG: Yeah.

DP: So, what kind of characteristics do you think he imparted on to your dad? I mean, you’ve mentioned some, but are there?

ZG: Yeah. Grandpa was, well, loyal and family. Like, family, family. That, that sense of courage. I mean my grandfather traveled along the railroad, he still, 00:18:00until he passed into [?]. So he would, you know, there’s some dependence there, right, but which makes me, which would make me scared, right? There’s a lot of things that I can’t do, but Grandpa didn’t tend to operate in that, and neither did my dad.

LM: Grandpa could not read, he was... He could not read.

ZG: I remember, for a while I did checks for him. Like I did his stuff for a little bit when I was younger. But I think, my dad would tell a story about, tell a story about how my grandpa would send him $50 each quarter I want to say, or semester at school, when he was at school. And of course $50 is not, does not pay tuition, you know, like there’s a lot more, but he was faithful like that -he was faithful, faithful, faithful. And that’s kind of how my dad attacked things too, in that same way. Like, like my grandpa worked on the railroad and, 00:19:00and doing -to buy a house, like it’s a big, it’s a large journey

DP: From sharecropper.

ZG: From stealing away, from sharecropping to being a homeowner. That was something that my dad helped, you know, partnered with in that, in that way. Those were some big things -they’re both funny too.

DP: They were both funny, sense of humor.

ZG: Yeah, having a sense of humor. So my uncle too, like for sure, a sense of humor about your reality was a resiliency tactic [laughs] essential, essential feature I think, when I think of him.

DP: Loretta, looking back on, on Fred, do you think his leadership skills, and I want you to think about the Walkout, because you were clearly there and meeting, you were there, you understood what was going on, and how do, can you talk a little bit about how that unfolded and why? How Fred’s leadership may have brought that together, if you can?

LM: I should go back to my talk [laughs]

DP: Okay, that’s okay.

LM: Because I, okay. Fred had this un, uncanny wisdom. People, he, he was kind of a magnet for people liked being with him he, he listened and he, and so I think that’s why so many people, you know, when Fred was dealing with having to defy his coach, he had the Black Student Union to sta-, right there, right there, they were there. And he had to make that decision not to shave his beard off and risk the ostracizing of his teammates, the ridicule of his coaches. He 00:21:00had, you know, the, the, the larger community being, being ostracized by the larger community. And considering that the Ku Klux Klan has this rampant history in, in Oregon, I often wondered if he actually wondered if he was going to be hung by a tree, you know? Yeah, it was, it was a tremendous thing. So, so I just observed how strong those black athletes stood together and the Black Student Union had leadership that wasn’t afraid to confront power, you know? So...

DP: Did you, did you attend any of the on-campus events when they were...?

LM: Yes I, I they well...

DP: Tell us about those?

LM: They had, they had like a 5,000 people, like a third of the, of the students at OSU attended rallies one day, my voice, one day. And...

DP: Grab some water.

LM: Thank you.

DP: Take your time.

LM: And so 5,000 students and community members attended the athletic coaches, the coaches, the, the athletic organization had the podium. They were there and 00:23:00there were 5,000 you know, students there. Well, at the same time the Black Student Union was holding another rally on the other side of campus on, in a smaller do, smaller area and that’s what I went to. And yeah, so it was, it was powerful, just campus event, you know? And, but yeah I was just quite inspired by how well the BSU managed all of that.

DP: Right. I imagine the students were meeting on the other side of campus; they were actually adamantly against the issue?

LM: Yes! Oh my gosh, yeah they were like ridiculing, you know? “How could these” and they were “how could these black athletes be so uppity? They 00:24:00should be grateful for their scholarships and how could they, you know defy us?” and yeah. So I mention in my talk also that they, the same day that they issued the bulletin that they were going to boycott classes, boycott athletic events, that same day they staged, the BSU staged an interruption of a lecture series, a lecture that was being done in honor of Linus Pauling. They, they walked in, there were how many did I say, 30, 30 black and white students that 00:25:00walked in led by Mike Smith, who was the Black Student Union, Black Students President and Rich Harr who was on the football team, they, they came in, they took the mic, they announced this boycott that was going to happen and that was huge courage to do that and the Gill Coliseum, that, that venue, Gill Coliseum is named after “Slats” Gill who, who was, didn’t, who prohibited, for 36 years, prohibited black athletes on his team.

DP: Absolutely.

LM: Kind of an iron, ironic thing, but...

DP: Yeah we know about that one, Natalia and I. Yeah [laughs] yeah.

LM: So, so.

DP: So to give your, your grandma a little rest, Isaiah can you just tell us any of your recollections and memories of your grandpa, as much as you’d like?

IA: My, my grandfather, oh man. Sorry I get caught up when she talks.

DP: Of course

IA: Because I, I learn

DP: Of course

IA: And I don’t know, I’m one, I’m very analytical in the same way that my grandfather was and so I take these stories and I look at big pictures and I look at who my grandfather was at the time, who my grandmother was at the time, how did they end up together? Me seeing the life that they lived after they had kids and when I was around and their marriage and what can I learn from that and what, like what, how does, how do you take a woman who had no real upbringing with any experience like what she found in her husband and have her just, you know travel with him, to all these different places and end up in Oregon, in 00:27:00creating a stable life for not only their children, but the generation under that? I mean, that house is a staple in our family. And I thank her for that all the time because it’s something that I’ve never had to worry about and so when she talks I like get lost so I’m sorry. I’m here [laughs] I just, I’ve been, I’ve been thinking again. And then with my mom just talking about what, who’s my great grandfather and I mean people like, it’s one of the proudest things that I’ve a quilt he made. And he made it, I believe, when he was, he couldn’t see anymore and I mean he made these quilts blind you know what I mean? And that’s the type of stuff that’s like every time somebody sees it, it’s like oh my great grandfather made that when he was blind.

DP: Ah, okay.

IA: And it’s like that’s the kind of leadership that’s in me. Like how, how could he have known that a blanket he was making that he could not see would cover his great grandchild? Like, that’s the type of and so when I listen to 00:28:00the stories it’s like, it’s just incredible, it’s incredible and that’s, but that’s who my grandfather was and that’s what was in him, that like, utility, the utility, but like a goofball [laughs]. Like I spent so much time with him, he’s who taught me what work was and on anytime that I was like, “what are we going to be doing?” “You don’t ask what you do, you show up” - you know? “Well how much are we getting paid?” “You get paid which you get paid after the work is done” [laughs]. And so you know he taught me what that was. He taught me what manual labor was. And yeah, so I was just, my grandfather man, I don’t even. There’s not enough words and so I was try to condense it and just hear everything and what it was you know what I mean. He was, he was the man, he was the man, you know. Like that’s, I, I was listening to her talk and I, me being the youngest one, I made a Facebook status about it, 00:29:00and all I said was “perhaps the greatest gift that you could leave for anyone, is a legacy that they can be proud of because it does so much for you.” My mother and I have talked a lot about it when we first lost my grandfather and how we just kind of wanted to climb every single mountain top and just like scream about him so that everyone would know how important of a person the world just lost and when you come to these things and you realize the people that turn out, you get interviewed because of something that your grandfather did.

That it, it makes you realize that no, people do know, like he was, he’s just as important to so many other people as he was to me for all these different reasons and I think it’s one of the best gifts that I’ve been given in my 20 years of being alive, is like, I forever have a legacy to be proud of, I forever have a legacy to turn to and draw strength from, forever have that within me. 00:30:00When he passed away I wrote a poem about that and it just, the first half was just all the things that he carried within himself and the second half was just me transitioning into all those things that he carried, I carried too and instead of him carrying me I now carry him, you know? With him being gone he’s a part of me so that’s just, he was just, he was everything. He was everything, he was so understated that like I never knew how important little things that we use to do, really were. I remember doing a piano recording from my great grandfather who I, I never got the chance to meet, but looking back on it and then I hear the stories of how important my grandfather’s father was to him, it’s like, that must have been like monumental and I had no idea because he just made it seem so like oh yeah...

DP: Right.

IA: Record something [laughs] so it’s like alright [laughs] sure I’ll do 00:31:00that, but it’s just crazy. I mean, I never, I didn’t even know about this stuff until they told us the story.

DP: Ah, okay.

IA: He was, he was that kind of guy where it was like he didn’t ever feel the need to boast of himself, he would never feel the need to remind you of his accolades or his position or who he was. I remember him always having this, he wasn’t like incredibly religious in the traditional sense, but he always had this strong sense of “I am just a man at the end of the day and there is a God above.” And he always used to joke about him, “you know, I had a conversation with God the other day and he’s a pretty good guy” [laughs]. You know what I mean? [laughs] He used to do stuff like that where it was just like what? [laughs]

DP: That’s great! [laughs]

IA: But, yeah he was just, I mean asking me to just talk about him, you can’t do that, we’d be here all day, but that’s where I’m at right now. It’s 00:32:00just, I’m very, I just, I try to learn from it all and understand and really what he was because the older I get, the more he becomes the me and like it never stops giving and that’s what I meant with you know, the greatest gift I think you can leave for someone is a legacy to be proud of, and he did that in spades you know what I mean? And so...

DP: Right.

IA: So yeah, I mean.

DP: So Loretta, I want to come back to you again and I wanted to ask you to reflect on the time period when the events were taking place around 1969 and just think through for us what kinds of issues that were going on in campus and how that Fred would have been talking to you about some of these things? I mean, he would have been saying things to you obviously, some things happening here, but he’s then coming home and saying Loretta I can’t believe they’ve? Do you recall any of those conversations?

LM: Yeah, you know my memory for specific conversations on that is, I don’t 00:33:00know, I just, you know, it’s, it’s not there, it’s not there.

DP: Okay, right.

LM: I don’t know whether I was just wrestling with so many...

DP: Sure.

LM: things at that point. And he was, you know he didn’t, you know I remember being with him and he didn’t dwell on, on that totally, it was, he had kind of this, this kind of joyful personality and it was just fun to be around. He would crack jokes and stuff and he was a very great letter writer.

DP: Okay.

LM: Oh my gosh, he wrote beautiful letters.

DP: Okay.

LM: Beautiful letters. He, I remember he wrote my, my parents before we got married.

DP: Okay.

LM: He wrote to them and said you know, “I know that you’re, this is really 00:34:00hard for you and, but Loretta and I are, are we’re going, we’re going forward with our relationship” and he, he was very eloquent, “so I don’t want to tear Loretta away from her family so I’m hoping that you, you will be,” excuse me.

DP: Sure.

LM: “You will be, you will be able to come around to see that things are good with us” and yeah. So he wrote this very eloquent letter and he wrote me very eloquent letters too, yeah, yes.

ZG: I was just going to say, it’s very consistent, so, because family is so 00:35:00core, right? Like he would if that makes complete sense, in what I know of him that he and I would say it’s not the response and a lot of people would have had to, you know to

LM: In your face...

ZG: To that, kind of...

LM: Racism.

ZG: Yeah, but he was very much like that and I think that that is part of the story that he, he’s so, he’s I mean integrity he, like when he takes a stand, he takes a stand, right like of course I’m not, I mean if that makes sense [laughs]. What I know of him, right, like when he takes a stand, he takes a stand, but his basic heart is, is restorative and collaborative, like that is his basic desire.

LM: Yes.

ZG: And I think that that was something and he talked to me a little bit like about coach Andros and he was, he talked about it in the sense of fighting a 00:36:00system and that coach, coach Andros ultimately helped him do some things that like he felt that the man himself, ultimately, he didn’t want vilified him as a human being, right? That, that he was a part of a system and that was a stand that he took, but that was really important to him and I think that’s important, you know in the story that he, he was not in my life in knowing him, he was always about - and, which not that many people are going to say can do: take a stand and invite conversation at the same time, like that is, that is a, and that’s you know to your point Mom, like he just had a way with people and a way of being able to invite conversations and invite people, invite coalitions of people to, to have these.

LM: Yes.

ZG: That kind of conversation.

DP: During the event, as it was transpiring in ‘69, was there any sort of conversation he was having with Coach Dee Andros? I read about one conversation that they had, but do you; did you recall him having dialogue of any kind that you recall?

LM: You know, other than that initial, from the story that I gleamed is that they had met on campus...

DP: That’s what I heard.

LM: And Andros saw the beard and then said, “Hey, you need to get rid of that thing by tomorrow morning” - and, and, and, and that was, I don’t think. I could be really wrong about that, he made have you know, had further conversations with him.

DP: Okay, sure and then subsequent to that, I also read somewhere that they 00:38:00eventually, eventually years later...

LM: Yes!

DP: Can you talk about that?

LM: Yes, yes! Fred was running for city commissioner.

DP: In Portland.

LM: In, in Portland. No, it was county commissioner.

DP: Okay.

LM: County commissioner in Portland and Dee Andros came up and appeared with Fred in a, in a, in a news, news release supporting Fred’s candidacy and yeah. So Fred really admired Dee Andros, he, he liked the man, he, he, he, he accredited Dee Andros with some, you know, a lot of his success. It was just that...

DP: That policy, the policy?

LM: The situation was.

DP: The situation.

LM: Was, was difficult.

ZG: When he talked some about the situations outside, right, of, of being 00:39:00allowed to play a particular kind of music for two hours on a Sunday when they said it was okay. You know, like kinds of situations outside of the demand of, you know, the facial hair and the cultural piece of that, that those kinds of conditions that became, that people, that aren’t the ones that people talk about because they aren’t the ones that were the most visible, what was most visible was this...

LM: Yes.

ZG: You know, interplay between you know a coach and his player, but the, the fight, the demonstration was about the whole. It was about treatment on a large scale level and that was, when he talked to me about the story that was really important for him to, you know, that the beard started things, but this was about a way of being seen and treated that was just unacceptable, things yeah and you know locker-rooms, it was just the kinds of stuff that happened when 00:40:00you’re 57 of 14,000 [laughs]

DP: Yeah.

ZG: And when it’s acceptable to, he talked about professors having no expectations of learning from, you know and his, you can tell he went to Utah to finish his degree. Like this was the education piece of his was a value and to be in a classroom where you weren’t, that wasn’t important, those kinds of conditions for the athletes that he just felt were wrong.

LM: And Fred was an intellectual also.

ZG: Very much so.

LM: You know, besides being gifted athletically, he was a very probing, had a very probing mind and yeah. So I, I concur with your story about, you know, how 00:41:00all that the black students at OSU were under this kind of strain and I remember, you know, they would have parties once in a while, but they, you know, would go off campus. They had, I think it was Harry Gunner had a, had a, had a house where they would sometimes go and get together at parties and yeah. I was going to say something else, but it just.

DP: Sure and okay, I’ll ask you about those parties in terms of who’d be there, that you can recall?

LM: And that’s the other thing that happened is boy those black athletes do not date white woman, you know, kind of thing; so yeah and, but there weren’t African American women on campus, you know so yeah. My, my brain is starting to...

DP: It’s okay.

LM: Really freeze up.

DP: Ok, we can stop whenever you’re ready and, and I can actually just keep asking the younger folks some of the questions and then maybe it’ll jog some of your understanding. So in, in as you’re growing up then did you, did your grandfather give you any advice on, in terms of meeting other people and who, who what groups you hang out with or was he that kind of person who would be very open to having friendships and relationships with anybody and everybody?

IA: I think that was the lesson.

DP: Okay.

IA: Was that, that’s how you have to live. Is anybody and everybody, is welcome and is worthy of your time and to treat everyone with just respect. I think that, I mean did he, was, did he think that I should do certain things? Of 00:43:00course, did he think that, you know, did he push school? Absolutely. Did he, you know, tell me who it was a better idea to be around and what was probably not the best? Absolutely. But I think the overall thing was more, you know, be well rounded, treat everyone with respect, treat everyone like a superstar because they are. That was, as far as like influence, that stuff, that’s where it was at. I mean he had a huge love and appreciation for school, education, learning, and his big thing with me was to have a plan and to hold myself accountable to that plan. I remember that was a lot of our conversations at the, we had a dining room table that we use to sit and talk at for hours [laughs]. Hours, I would go over there to do homework and spend the first three hours talking to him and we didn’t realize it was happening, meanwhile Grandma is just bringing snacks and we don’t even realize what’s happening, we’ve gone through like 00:44:00two grilled cheeses and [laughs].

That was his thing for me, was, “What’s your plan? what are your goals? Write your goals down, keep yourself accountable, don’t, don’t have lazy goals” was his big thing with me. I remember because often my goals would kind of be loosely ended, “oh I’m going to get straight A’s this year” “Well, what does that mean, what’s really your goal, how are you going to do that, what’s your timeline?” And I was always like, “oh you know by the end of the year” and he’s like “no, no, no that’s a lazy goal” [laughs]. And that means you can do whatever and as long as it fits within this, you, you achieved it and he’s like, “that’s not how it works” so that was a big thing for him. Again the work ethic was a huge thing for him with just you show up to work and you do the work. If you’re going to do it, you sign up and you do it. There’s all these other questions are, they’re not necessary and they ultimately cloud you, if there’s work you show up, you show up on 00:45:00time, you do the work, you do all of it.

DP: Right.

IA: And you go home when it’s done.

DP: Did he ever encourage you into following athletics at all because I didn’t hear anybody talk about it?

IA: He encouraged me in whatever I decided I thought was important, whether that was my piano playing, whether that was - I remember he showed up at a random, random, this is the type of grandpa I had. Just randomly showed up at my football practice, randomly, I mean no reason. It wasn’t a special practice, he just showed up, it was like doing laps around the Grant Bowl while I had practice and then he’d just talk to me afterwards “oh, I just wanted to come down and see how the program was doing.”

DP: Ah, okay [laughs].

IA: Alright [laughs].

ZG: That’s so dad, that’s so dad [laughs].

IA: Yeah, he’s like.

ZG: That’s so dad.

IA: “You want a ride home?” “I’m good.” “Alright” [laughs]. Like he encouraged whatever I thought. I mean, I, I’m a singer/songwriter and he pushed me with that, “what are you doing, are you performing, do you plan on performing?”

DP: Ah, okay.

IA: “Well if you’re not then I’m not sure how serious you really are” - you know what I mean? Which was, which was like...

DP: Yeah.

IA: But then it was also like alright I mean I get what you’re saying, you’re calling me to action.

DP: Right.

IA: Yeah, he, he supported just about anything that I did.

DP: Right.

IA: The big thing, the biggest thing man, I learned like as far as communicating and supporting someone goes is just, he never invalidated my feelings, ever. It didn’t matter if I was the child in the situation, it didn’t matter if I was just flat out wrong. He never invalidated what I was telling him my experience was, whether that was with struggling with academics or struggling with a way of understanding something. Whether that was a situation that happened within the household, whether it was, I mean anything. He never, he always like my mother, he listened, he, and I mean he didn’t invalidate me. What I mean by that is that often times as older folks, as adults, especially when talking to those of 00:47:00the younger generation of just younger age, less experience, we invalidate without even thinking about it, the youth’s experience, which is the easiest way to end a conversation with somebody and to get, you know, a younger person to revolt against you, but he never did that on me. And like I said, I was flat out wrong a lot of the time, but he never invalidated, he never was like, “I’m not listening to that because that’s not, that’s not correct.” He would just let me go and the crazy thing was, in doing that not only did I feel like, like I mattered, my opinion mattered, my voice mattered, but I found what was actually right [laughs] by just saying the wrong things so many times I started to actually hear myself go, “oh, huh” [laughs] and then, you know, and so.

DP: That’s great.

IA: That was, that was big.

DP: Yeah

IA: He, he was just supportive with everything I did.

DP: Right.

IA: He was, yeah.

DP: Yeah.

IA: He, he would complement you once [laughs] and then tell you the 20 things 00:48:00that you need to work on [laughs].

ZG: Right, yes.

IA: But that one compliment was so sweet, it was like, ah there it is [laughs]. Like there’s the redeeming quality [laughs] you got it.

DP: That’s great to hear, yeah.

IA: Yeah.

DP: Loretta, can I come back and ask you a little bit about the transition between leaving here and going to Idaho to play ball. How did that, how did that negotiation take place around him keeping the, getting that scholarship and you know, the, the, the decision to, to leave?

LM: Yeah.

DP: Can you talk a little about that?

LM: I think that actually Dee Andros helped with that.

DP: Okay.

LM: That whole process, yeah. Yeah, so there must have been conversation between the Utah coach and, and Dee Andros and yeah.

DP: Right.

LM: Can I say one more thing?

DP: Please.

LM: Dovetailing with Isaiah.

DP: Sure, sure.

LM: Fred was so multifaceted, he; I mean he was an environmentalist.

IA: The man loved trees.

LM: He just loved [laughs], he loved trees [laughs].

IA: The man loved his trees [laughs].

LM: He just loved being in the outdoors and hiking and I have pictures of him hiking with his backpack. We, we went on these long hikes all over. And he loved, you know, in particular, trees, Redwoods, oh my gosh.

IA: Yeah.

LM: The Redwoods, the California Redwoods that was his, he loved those - hummingbirds, hummingbirds. Yeah, so I just wanted to add that.

DP: Oh thanks for adding that, yeah.

IA: Mind you, he’s doing these hikes with walking sticks that he made.

LM: Oh, he has.

IA: It’s like, like sir, [laughs] sir what, what are you, what?! [laughs].

LM: Yeah, he’s got his walking sticks, he made like six of them.

IA: I would say he made and he wrapped, he made a handle out of a deconstructed volleyball.

DP: Okay.

IA: That he just turned inside out and wrapped it around so it was a very soft grip.

DP: Ah okay.

IA: Showed me how to skin, I mean it was just like, who are you? [laughs]

ZG: That’s grandpa, that’s, that’s Grandpa Monroe, that’s.

LM: That’s.

ZG: That’s who that is, that’s that he, my dad would go out and like, “I’m going to redo the steps on the deck.”

IA: [laughs] what?

ZG: And like pull them out and redesign them and then forgot how to level them, like he would do all these projects.

IA: Meanwhile, this is the same guy.

ZG: My mom has the front of the house, it’s so beautiful and mystique and my dad has the back, it’s got projects everywhere, but, but that’s, you ask me about how he was like his dad and that he loved a good problem to solve.

IA: Right.

ZG: He loved an intellectual problem; he loved an engineering problem like he loved a good problem to solve. And I was just going to say like when I was little, the athletic piece, he, that’s when I said that’s so Dad.

IA: Just showed up [laughs].

ZG: Just showed up and like walked around like surveilling the scene and he, I was a runner when he was younger and he, you know, was my coach and he’d have 00:51:00me out there and like, you know. I remember him saying I had to run, I’d be able to run two miles and catch my breath within two minutes and then he would be like, “okay now you’re ready for like,” he was, he was serious about his, his athletics right? But he was always there, you’d look up and he was always there, you knew mom was there because she has a very particular high pitch scream.

IA: Yeah, she does!

ZG: [laughs] because you know, we got to have that too. Have the, the encouragement.

LM: Yelling for you.

ZG: Yeah, all events.

IA: Absolutely.

ZG: Yes, events of all sorts. But he was, he, he believed in sports to his core, like he believed that that discipline and that working harder than you knew you could work, that, that following through on a goal, that besting yourself when you’re anxious about, you know, your own like that was so core to him and I, I knew it because I experienced it in, in him being my coach and in various ways 00:52:00and I meant it when I said that he became a volleyball coach. He didn’t know anything about volleyball, but I wanted to play, my sister wanted to play.

IA: Didn’t, didn’t he help found, found like, like found the PIL?

ZG: Yeah he founded the PIL.

IA: Founded the PIL, he was actually one of the founders [laughs]

DP: Ah, okay.

LM: Yeah, yeah. PIL sports club.

ZG: Well yeah, he founded his own club...

IA: Right.

ZG: And figured that out and became like to Mom’s point, he was very multifaceted, a student of whatever, so became a volleyball coach because that was, but what he cared about was the development of human beings. Like that is always, if you ask anybody who’s ever been coached by him or mentored by him or whatever, he cared about your development as a person and that was, it was just so core and, and central to him.

IA: I want to revisit what you had asked me, just about, you know, with the sports and whether he ever pushed. I think by far, you know, kind of along with just that be multifaceted, be open to everybody and it was his biggest thing for me including that, you know, setting goals was to be a player of everything.

DM: Okay.

IA: Whether that was through that was politics, whether that was room that I was 00:53:00sitting in, whether that was the friends that were around me, whether that was the color of my skin, whether that was what I actually thought in a situation as opposed to what everybody else thought. His biggest thing for me was to be aware and to be aware of self and where you stand and, and look at all of that and then analyze it, which I think is a lot of what I do now and I think it was in me already, but he kind of, he brought it out. I mean, he, he would sit me down and already have blocked out news columns that he had already decided I was going to read [laughs].

DM: Okay, okay.

IA: Sit me down and make me read them and they would be, I mean they would be about laws that pertain to me. It was, I can’t remember which measure it was, but it was, it was the one talking about if you’re over the age of 15 years old and you’re with a friend and they get caught shop lifting, you can actually be taken as well just because you knew about it. Things that I didn’t know about, but affected me, you know what I mean? So he, he was, his biggest thing was just be aware, be smart, be knowledgeable, don’t ever, don’t take things for face value, look into it, research, like really, really be aware of 00:54:00what’s going on. Politics was a big thing for him; obviously he ran for city council or was it?

LM: Yes, city council and county commissioner.

IA: Right and it’s like, same guy who makes walking sticks, [laughs] but yeah his biggest thing, was just be aware, being aware was such a thing that I remember from him because I was in the clouds a lot. I was a dreamer, I was you know, happy-go-lucky -one thing, next thing, other thing. His big thing, you know, was “be aware, what are you looking at, what’s facing you, what’s going on right now?”

DP: Right.

IA: “Are you paying attention to politics, these are the things that are going to affect you, yeah they’re happening today and you’re 12 years old, but these are the things that are going to affect you when you’re 25, when you’re 30, when you want to start buying a house, do you know, I mean are you, just pay attention” - he didn’t ask me to vote [laughs].

DP: Right.

IA: But he was like just know what’s going on.

DP: Right, right.

IA: And you reminded me of that when you were just talking about, one, him being there and the sports thing I remember even with that it was just being aware, you know, or taking the bus, be aware [laughs]. Who are you with? Be aware and 00:55:00it doesn’t mean to remove yourself, it just means if you need to, at least be aware of the fact that you know, maybe I should just like backpedal out of this because it’s going to end up pretty bad for me like backpedal out of this [laughs].

DP: [?] yeah. After leaving football then, Loretta, did he never want to get back into it again, in other words could he finish his career I understand, the Alouettes, did he never look back and say oh I want to be a coach or, you know, I’m going to pursue this any other way, do you recall?

LM: Well actually, he did coach when my son, our third child.

DP: Ah, okay.

LM: He, he attended Central Catholic High School in Portland and Fred became one of their assistant coaches on their football team and so he, he worked and at training the, the linebackers, I think.

DP: That’s his position, yeah.

LM: Yeah, some of the defensive positions, he, he worked with the kids and with 00:56:00my son and yeah that was.

DP: Did the other coaches...

LM: His.

DP: Did the other coaches know his reputation meaning?

LM: I think so.

DP: What happened here?

LM: I think so.

DP: All that he did?

LM: Yeah, I think so.

IA: That’s probably why he was allowed to be an assistance coach [laughs].

LM: Yeah, he also coached track there, he coached, did some track.

IA: Did he really?

LM: Yeah because Fred was a track star also.

DP: Well can you tell us about that?

IA: Oh the shot put, yeah the shot put.

LM: Shot put champion.

IA: That’s right.

LM: Of the state of Washington, he was shot put, he, he wrestler, he was also a wrestler and he, he...

IA: Oh man.

LM: He, he, I think he was one of the championship wrestlers at, at the state of Washington.

DP: Right, at the state yeah.

LM: But...

ZG: But he would never tell you that.

IA: No he never did [laughs]. I mean he just wanted to rebuild his backyard 00:57:00[laughs]. You know what I mean?

DP: Right.

IA: He didn’t really care about letting you know.

DP: Right.

LM: I want to say something pertaining to football. I think that he played football, you know, beginning at a young age, he was a middle linebacker, punishing, he was, he was called “Freight Train.”

IA: Freight Train!

LM: That was his nickname in, in at Richland High School.

DP: Okay.

IA: He was a big dude.

LM: Freight Train. I think that in his later years, his football playing really did impact his health, he ended up with ruptured discs in his back which, you know, he had three back operations and then yeah and I think, I think just the sum of what happened to his, his mental health later in life also. I think 00:58:00football, playing football [smacking hands noise].

DP: Concussions and so forth right?

LM: There’s been a lot of news about that lately.

DP: Yeah.

LM: Yeah.

DP: Yeah.

LM: So...

DP: That’s tough, yeah. Well we’re going to end off the interview by saying is there anything you’d like to tell us about Fred, your, your dad or your grandfather or that we’ve missed or you want to really get on the record?

IA: I just want to make it clear; he was the best person ever [laughs]. If that wasn’t already clear [laughs].

DP: Sure sounds that way.

IA: Just you know, let me put it in black and white.

DP: Okay.

IA: He was the best person ever [laughs].

ZG: Not perfect so much, but...

DP: Sure.

ZG: Yeah, I’m trying to think what he would.

DP: Yeah what would he like to leave us with?

ZG: Like what he would want.

IA: Can I start that out?

ZG: People to know, huh?

IA: Can I start that out? What he would want people to know?

DP: Yeah.

IA: [laughs] the first thing he would say is that it’s not about me [laughs]. I mean really, I think his biggest, I mean if he was here, his biggest thing would be, “alright what’s next?” and “how can I get that started?” And 00:59:00I think that’s my piece of it. Is just with everything that he was able to do, “what’s next, what are we going to do?” You know, we’ve all had the opportunity whether it was through interview, whether it was through fatherhood, marriage, being a grandfather. We’ve all had interactions with him, we’ve all seen what an amazing person looks like, we got that down, so now what are we going to do?

LM: Oh, I was going to say that I think that, the woman who’s heading up the Educational Opportunities.

DP: EOP?

LM: EOP

DP: Janet Nishihara?

LM: Yes.

DP: Yes.

LM: She mentioned to me that what happened on campus in ‘69 was one of the 01:00:00things that spearheaded the founding of the EOP, which, you know, the ball got rolling and eventually this facility was built.

DP: You got it.

LM: So it’s a testament to, you know, not only Fred’s, Fred’s part in that movement, but all the other people that were a part of it that their, their, their efforts and their strength, is bearing fruit, you know?

DP: Absolutely, I’m here because Fred’s here and I’ll connect myself to Fred because I got hired here as a diversity hire and the only reason why I got hired as a diversity hire is because of the things that Fred and people subsequent to Fred talked about on this campus, is lacking role models, people who are actually, you know, here for students of color. And so I definitely connect myself to those pioneers that were on campus.

ZG: I was going to say almost the exact same thing, like he would.

IA: What’s next?

ZG: Well yes, but the first thing is that he said, “Well, it’s not about me.” Like I think that’s very much his, and he would, it would make him so much prouder and happier to know that there are things like the EO, EOC, and diversity, like that would make him really proud I think, but yeah. I, it’s a little bit, it’s sort of about that, it’s sort of about me [laughs]. I was sharing with you that I read a book, looked at a book and it was about OSU football and there was no mention and how much that was really powerful for me, how easy it is to erase something from existence. And I think that, is the part that’s important, would be important to Dad, like not his name necessarily although that’s important to us, like he was big and important in that time 01:02:00period and I’m, I’m glad that people understand that, but that, that story not get co-opted, like I’ve also heard other stories of, “oh well, you know it was the Panthers who were about this and about that” and its, it was not, it was not. So, so the integrity of the story, if you’re going to tell the story, tell the story, it would matter to him, I believe, with integrity and fidelity.

DP: Let’s see looking back at the picture back there just, was reflecting and thinking did they ever get a reunion going with the men who were part of the walkout or?

LM: Get, get a what?

DP: A reunion or a...

LM: Oh, you mean like right now?

DP: Or like people getting together or anything or people?

LM: I don’t think so.

DP: Ever?

LM: I don’t think so.

DP: No, yeah.

LM: Yeah.

DP: Yeah, that’s a shame.

ZG: I have to say that my dad would also want to say that my mom is.

IA: Yeah I was going to say that [laughs].

ZG: So...

IA: Yeah he could not have done... [laughs]

ZG: Have heard this part of the story that you highlighted, that whoo, then we 01:03:00moved here and then we moved here.

IA: Right, like wait a second! [laughs].

ZG: Here then we got fired from this job and then we moved here [laughs].

IA: We just kept on trucking [laughs].

ZG: That is not, none of that is easy and, and dad knew that.

IA: Especially when you take in the circumstances...

ZG: And he would say like, none of that, none of everything that happened is possible without you, like he knew that, he knew that, even though, you know, he didn’t always, it came out, when it came out, it came out when I was being obnoxious as a teenager and he was like, “You will not - because your mother” [laughs]. Let me explain.

LM: The thing that held us together was respect, we just really respected each other, you know.

IA: You kind of have to, ya’ll two are pretty respectable [laughs].

DP: Well we’re going to turn the tape and go around now and say...

ZG: Thanks

DP: And say thank you very much to both of you, not both of you, all three of you for being part of this contribution to the archives...

LM: Thank you

IA: Thank you, thank you

LM: Thank you so much

IA: Thank you for keeping the story alive.

DP: Thanks.