Gladys Whipple Goode Oral History Interview, July 24, 1979

JL: Well Mrs. Goode I've been looking forward to interviewing you. Why don't we start with what you remember about your grandparents.

GG: Well, I remember in my early childhood I suppose I, I don't claim to remember like my husband does, I think I must be, been about 3 years old. When I, things that I remember, I don't know that I remember anything, it's hard for me to know because I lived in the same home, I was born in the home and I lived in it until I went away to Whitworth College.

JL: You were born in 1892 in Portland.

GG: In '92 in Portland, December and then I, and uh, our life was very tranquil 00:01:00in those days, my father was, as I told you, a locomotive engineer, he had the first run on the line so that he at the time I can remember would go one day up to Umatilla and back the next day, and the following day he was at home, the third day he was at home. And that was of course in those days quite a privilege to have every third day off. And uh, he was a home man, very much of a home man. We had uh, a nice big home and fruit trees all around which I loved to climb when I was a kid, ha, ha

JL: Before we get to your father, can you re-what can you remember about your grandfather Whipple?

GG: I don't remember, I din't ever knew my father's people at all, any of them, excepting ah, a brother, who came to live, an uncle who came to live in Portland, but I never knew any of his, people. His Aunt Jane who was curter at the uh, Bunker Hill monument came out when I was born and took care of my sister. But of course I don't remember any of that. So I didn't know my father's people.

JL: Where were they from?

GG: Uh, they were all, all from New Hampshire. You see people didn't come across 00:03:00the, even when I was a, even when I went to teach when I graduated here, I sent my picture, Oh I'm getting way ahead of the game, uh to but I was very consciencsious when the president of the college met me at the train. He was greatly surprised, he expected me to be very dark. And I realized after that, that he would, he thought that I must have some Indian blood in me. I came out of the west. And that's how they felt about the west in those days. It was unconsciencsious. But this little town, just a matter of a 100 miles from Chicago, was an old, old, well they thought of it as an aristocratic town, of 00:04:00old families that valued their family lines and their traditions. And uh they really didn't know much about the rest of the world.

JL: So they assumed everybody from the west had Indian blood in them.

GG: They, I'm sure of that. Now at the same time, the girl who came to teach languages and was dean of women, uh, was dark, black eyes, and black hair. But she came from uh, New York state, her home was in New York state. But uh, which you see the difference, because I was fair, I had kind of red-gold in my hair, 00:05:00and uh, otherwise, uh my But uh he fairly gasped when he looked at me and he said "OH I thought you were dark!" Well uh it was the same, uh well I don't know that I seen that picture. I think you, you have.

JL: Well before we even get to that, do you remember your mother's parents, they were the Smiths?

GG: I remember my mother's parents very well. My grandmother, in fact I've come to realize that I was very like my grandmother Smith. In coloring, in looks, and as a person. Uh, I think you saw that family' picture in the album, where she's 00:06:00standing at one side and I'm a little girl. I think I, good deal like her. Although I don't know just where I got my wild spirit, because I was my, my sister was like my father, very reserved and very uh, uh, confined to the little things she liked to do, well she was ill, scarlet fever in the middle of high school days and she never went on. She married and settled down and was satisfied. While I had this wild spirit, of going, of doing, getting. I didn't, of course I expected to be an artist, I uh, signs showed up in me when I was just a small child in school. And the first shock of it came to me when the 00:07:00teacher asked me, it was a special occasion, and in those days we had green blackboards all around the room.

JL: This was in Portland.

GG: This was in Portland, and a, a perfectly standard grade school. And this, I don't remember what the occasion was, but they were A just dressing up for it, and she asked me to draw pictures on all the blackboards. Well you could have just knocked me down with a feather, I didn't know what in the world, you know. But she must have recognized, I was always drawing pictures on the sides of my textbooks, and of course you probably noticed that I don't, I'm very visual minded and uh, so then I, I had a little blackboard on the wall, so big, and I 00:08:00did a lot of Practicing (chuckle) I did my best, I don't know how good it was. But uh, in those days it was a, I would say the style. And my mother belonged to a pai-and oil painting class. And she went with other, some others I was too small to leave at home, and uh, she took me along, and they went in the morning and they stayed for lunch. And uh, so it was quite a trip on a streetcar. Uh, and so I was along. And I got to painting also.

JL: Now when was this, you said it was the custom for women to get together and oil paint?

GG: Well, they uh, whether or not you had any talent or not, it was kind of, kind of in fashion to form these, these classes. There'd be a teacher who was 00:09:00skilled in painting who would teach it and uh, the people would go and of course as I well know because I had painting classes myself, you have students and you make something out of what they've done as best you can.

JL: What...

GG: If they have talent why they do pretty well themselves, but if they don't you have to do something about it, you know. So you can't tell I whether people are all talented or not.

JL: What years was this that you r mother took this, uhm.

GG: Well I must of been, I must have been uh, six years old when I started and I went until I was, when I was uh, well when I was twelve the teacher had a 00:10:00contest, and she divided the group, I got to painting along with the others. And she divided the group into three groups, of different difficulty of study and she put me in the first group. And it was a study of chrysanthemum, a bowl. And uh, I got the first prize. And she told me, I still have that it was hand painted plate with nasturtiums on it that she had done, she was quite adept. Although I wouldn't now consider her an artist, there is a little painting on the wall over there that she gave me. She quite skillful. Well she said now the thing you must do for confidence is to have a class of your own.

JL: Well you were going to the same class as your mother's then?

GG: Yes, I was still, I got to painting along with the others. The others were all women, grown women.

JL: What happened in these classes, was there a lot of talking, and little children around?

GG: Oh yea there was a lot of sociability, lot of sociability and they took their lunch along, and they had their lunch and then they'd go on painting, till the middle of the afternoon. It was quite a trip home on the streetcar. I'm not sure we didn't have to transfer, one car to another. I don't remember about that to much. But I know my mother painted a big painting of a, I never do know, do know uh I'm sure my mother wasn't particularly talented but I think she did probably pretty fair. But I, cause I do know a teacher can always make something 00:12:00out what you do, you know. And I wasn't alert enough in that way, and my mother, but she painted a large, oh it was style to have paintings up with very wide gold frames on them, and she painted a picture for my father of New Hampshire Meadows. This large, large picture. And she painted some others that were up in our living room.

JL: Now was this in Portland that she was taking these courses and she took, and she did a painting of New Hampshire Meadows?

GG: Yes, uh ha, that's where my father remembered the New Hampshire Meadows. And wanted her to do it. Well years later when I was painting on my own, I then had a painting class of my own and through my high school days while I took art. 00:13:00Charcoal drawing on the wall that my husband dug out and had framed. Uh, I had a good teacher that is all the other opportunity that I had other than this one. But I did put by quite a little bit of money, in my painting class and that was my nest egg, was I was to Europe to study art. That was always my aim as a kid.

JL: Now you mean you sold your paintings then?

GG: Yes, I sold my painting, in fact I sold everything when our home was broken up, everything was sold of that sort, excepting this one picture of the chessman which I can have my husband bring down it's up in his study. That my father 00:14:00brought one time home, of uh, old, old gentleman playing chess, it's quite whimsical because their, their own of them catching another one of them in a play. And uh, uh, I painted that for him, and I kept that picture. See our home was finally, my father died, my father died when I was a sophomore in college. And uh, my mother, in those days there weren't ways of saving money, like uh, like we have today. He had insurance, uh engineer insurance. But aside from that he saved his money be building houses and he would buy a lot and build a house 00:15:00on it for rent and for sale. And that's the way he uh, he put his money. And of course my mother supported me through college and el kept on for a great many years on what he had done in that way. That was his way of saving. But this one picture, when the old home broke up was the only one that I el kept. And I still have that, which you may see if you wish.

JL: I'd like to see that, now let's go back to what said that you were similar to your grandmother Smith. Was she also a painter then?

GG: No, no uh she didn't do anything like that. My grandmother, my grandmother she had a big family. There were three girls and four boys in her family. And 00:16:00then uh when I was a little girl, about ten I suppose my grandmother got cancer. They had very little, very little way of treating it in those days. And our home, my mother was the oldest and the daughter and the one that was, the one who was of a character to do it anyway. Uh was the one who took care of everybody in the family. And I, I had of course, which was a wonderful experience of, of uh witnessing all these things that happened, But my grandmother's death is very vivid to me, and it was long and prolonged. And uh 00:17:00my mother took care of her. She used to about the only thing that could be done was to give her a shot of morphine in her arm. But she died long before my grandfather and uh, my grandfather, I don't know if I should tell this as a matter of history, my grandfather uh, had a partner in this bridge building that he was doing. And he was evidently a crooked man.

JL: His partner was.

GG: Yes, and in order to, uh to get uh, uh, hold of the business, and to uh, to, to uh, disgrace my grandfather, in those days liquor, the only was you got 00:18:00liquor was in saloon. My grandfather was no, not a drinker. And this at man got my grandfather drunk. And uh, had him sign over his holdings. It was a great tragedy in our family. A great tragedy to my grandfather which really broke his life, and my own grandmother was ill with this cancer. And, and so I remember the great tragedy of all this.

JL: When was this, was this...

GG: My grandfather lost most of his holdings, he had his own home place and one 00:19:00other uh, one other house. Which they went to live in, left. But it was the breaking of his life, And I even as a child knew that my grandfather was not a, at fault, to any great extent. But uh, anyway, he lost everything that way.

JL: What was your father, your grandfather's full name?

GG: Benjamin Franklin Smith.

JL: And what was the name of his firm, his bridge building firm?

GG: Well, I, that I can't tell you, it probably was a combination of the two names. I think this historical fact is in this uh, uh, I don't whether Ken has come across it in his wanderings or not, but I know in some town, because I was there once, but I don't remember. And the place was locked up. But there is a 00:20:00record of it, of those early days, in that, in that place.

JL: Well now, your grandfather and grandmother had come from where, to Portland?

GG: Well, they came from Wisconsin. I think, and they were not married. I don't know if they knew each when they started, or whether they were sweethearts when left, I don't know. But they were married when they got to Milwaukee. Milwaukee and Oregon City is the nucleus of the early settlers was in that region.

JL: Did they tell you anything about them coming across, to the west?

GG: I don't know anything about that, I was too little to pay any attention to a that, I don't know...

JL: Do you know why they came?

GG: Well it was just, just the urge that the, uh people had in those days. There were many wagon trains that came across the plains, you know in those days. And that's the way Oregon was settled.

JL: Do you know when they came to Oregon?

GG: Well, uh, I can only figure it by figuring back uh, I know I tried to do that the other day when you were here. I know my mother was the oldest daughter, and there were two boys older than she.

JL: Can you remember their names?

GG: Well one was Uncle Ross and the other was Uncle Luther. I never knew them. Although I think, Uncle Ross died after I was born. But uh, I know that my 00:22:00mother was the third child you see.

JL: And what is her full name?

GG: Her full name is Ellen Adeline Smith Whipple.

JL: And when was she born then?

GG: Well then that was what I would be trying to figure out because my sister was two about two and 2/3's years older that I. I was born in 1892, so she was born in 1889.

JL: Now was she born here then? Was your mother born here?

GG: Oh yes, they were all born in Portland, in this old home in Portland. That was not very far from where my father built. But uh, my, you see then if my 00:23:00sister was born in '89 and my mother was 19 when she was married, so uh, '89 and give a year or two, uh which, uh, would be '87, she, they'd probably married in '87. I think the old family Bible would tell, they, I have a big Bible that was given to them when they were married. I think it was about 1887. When they were married and she was 19. So you subtract 19 from '87 and uh, see what you get. And then you see there were two children there were two children before 00:24:00her, so you'd have to take off at least four years for that, uh and you would get about the time they were married as very young people.

JL: And that's when they came west also.

GG: Yes when they came west. All I, all I ever heard said was that they were married when they arrived here. And whether their courtship was other the plains, or whether they knew each other before I do not know.

JL: Do you know if your grandfather was an engineer or a bridge builder in the east?

GG: Well that I don't know either. I think he was a very young man, and uh, people probably turned their hands to what they were skilled at or what they had 00:25:00talent for. I don't know whether he had any trade, you know, I didn't, I know he was a very young man. But anyway that was one thing that had to be done and that is where he did that for many years.

JL: Can you tell me which bridges he has built?

GG: No, uh, beyond the one or two of the first bridges in Portland, and the bridge here at Corvallis, and one at uh, a tressel at Surfurd at Surfurds, now I don't know just where Surfurds is. I never heard any remarks, he would be away from home, working on a bridge.

JL: How did he happen to do the one in Corvallis?

GG: Well that I don't know. I was just a go- little kid and I paid no attention.

JL: How did you know that he had built the one in Corvallis?

GG: Because, well because of the fact of my coming up here, the family talked about it you see, I heard them mentioning. And that's the only way I know.

JL: And then he built two in Portland? Do you know where they were located?

GG: No, I don't know. But I know that was his business and he did it constantly. And he did after I was, he built his bridges supers, after I was a girl. Oh twelve or so and of course he died when I was not very much older.

JL: What kind of a man was your grandfather Smith?

GG: He was a very nice man. Very gentle, nice man. And uh, this thing of that 00:27:00happened was a great tragedy. Killed my grandmother I'm sure.

JL: Because she was aware of what was going on also?

GG: Well she was a very sensitive women, I uh, (pause) you know a little girl doesn't, I know I paid much more attention to such things than my sister. My sister, you know, people are different, and I was impressed by a lot of things, I know she never noticed, but uh, I know that it broke my grandmother's heart. 00:28:00And she was ill anyway. So my grandmother died in her home. My mother taking care of her like she did of everybody.

JL: You must of loved your grandmother very much?

GG: I did, They had a great old house, when I was a little child (cough)when (cough) one of our favorite games was playing dress-up I had an Aunties who was a beauty, she was a blond, and beauty, and the youngest of the girls..

JL: Your mother's sister?

GG: My mother's sister. My mother was a, well she was blue-eyed but she had dark hair. But uh, then my Aunt May, who came next, was dark, her hair was 00:29:00still darker and her eyes were brown, like my grandfather. My hair and general complexion, and looks as I as I have realized as I been are like my grandmother. And I think I must have been like her in temperament, but my sister and I, and My Aunt Lou was a beauty and a great dresser. She had lots of clothes. And you know in those days, they wore long sweeping skirts and big billowing sleeves, and oh all kinds of fancy things, and uh, one of our favorite games was getting at Lou's clothes and dressing up.

JL: Can you describe one of your favorite dresses?

GG: (chuckle) I don't think I can, I don't remember that well. There were too many of them. But I can remember more than of anything feeling kind of spooky 00:30:00upstairs, and in the old home, because by the time I was a little girl, why the children were all gone, you know, and there were lots of empty rooms upstairs. And you'd go up this long stairway upstairs and then there was a front parlor that was almost never used and it just seemed vacant, and I had that feeling of, of just uh, kind of spookiness. (Chuckle) And then we'd go to Aunt Lou's room and we'd get into her clothes. And we had a great time playing dress-up. Well, uh...

JL: Did she wear makeup also?

GG: Oh yes, she was a great beauty, and uh, and she went to Saint Mary's Academy which was the place to go in those days.

JL: Would you consider your grandparents as being wealthy then?

GG: Uh, I never thought of it that way they were... IS uh, my, my with my schoolmates, you know, but I never thought about it but I realized that there really wasn't much comparison, uh, in our way of living.

JL: So they were just comfortable, not practically wealthy?

GG: Yes.

JL: So your grandparents, grandparents Smith, had, let's see, three girls, and two...

GG: three girls and four boys.

JL: And they built the home that you grew up in?

GG: No, my father built our home. But they built this big home with quite a large tract of land, that ran down to what is Johnson Creek, it's still there.

JL: Where was there house located, do you know?

GG: Well, uh the suburb was uh, Sellwood. Uh I don't know, do you know Portland at all?

JL: Not very well.

GG: Well, the, it's on the uh, it's on, the north side of Portland, You come to Oregon City, and then you come to Milwaukee, and then very soon, very soon, within a matter of walking distance, really, a matter of a few miles. You come to what is, what used to be Sellwood, the outer edge of Portland. And that's where we lived, and we went by streetcar, and when I got to be a high school girl I went by streetcar to uh, Washington High School.

JL: Now uh, how did your grandparents acquire this land in Portland?

GG: Well, I imagine in those early days that uh, uh, land was not expensive, and uh, of course with him taking up this profession that he had, he acquired means so, I don't think it was, such a thing, the fact was that we, they probably were early, earlier settlers that most of the people, that most of the youngster that went to school with me you know. They, they had arrived more recently and not under the same type of circumstances and uh, uh, Portland was settled originally and built by some wealth lines of men who planned to make it a home city, and 00:34:00not let business take over too heavy. There were little lads and uh, oh a number of, of well to do families that did everything that they could to keep big business out of Portland.

JL: And was your grandparent's one of these people that wanted business out of there?

GG: No, no I wouldn't consider that so at all. They uh, uh, of course uh, well uh, these people I speak of were people who came after my grandparents. My grandparents were just very early, uh, arrivals in the, the area you know.

JL: Do you remember the street that they built their house on?

GG: Well it wasn't a street it was a road. I wouldn't know, I wouldn't know now the place has all been cut up all in blocks. I used to go in at a corner gate and go down a winding path, we always used the side door to go in. But there was also a front gate, you went straight down to the front door, that's where the picture was taken and there was a old kind of fashioned English garden, I was very, always very allergic to flowers and gardens, I have been gardener myself and I is one thing that's been hard for me because I couldn't do anything in my 00:36:00garden (chuckle) But uh, the, you came in right out, right off the road and then you see the block, there was double block of no houses at all, just this little woods that it shows in the picture where the little woods they are. There fir trees, and different kinds of Oregon growth. And there was a little path, just dirt path running through the middle of it. Kind of winding. And uh, I would, I considered myself as I think of my early, of my childhood as very fortunate because I was uh, exposed to nature, near to nature like I was. I could go through that little woods to my grandmothers place and then of course 00:37:00there were oh, they had stock, they had uh, vegetable garden, and berry patches and all kinds of things like that on this uh, tracted of land.

JL: Was that unusually, would you say most young people your age did not have that awareness and opportunity to appreciate nature?

GG: Well, children , I went to school with, were children that uh, of people that came in to Sellwood, and build small home, like the average small home you see around. And uh, lived on one lot. They weren't old timers you see, like uh, I was. That was a difference I never thought of it, I never thought of any 00:38:00particular differences but. I, I...

JL: How did your grandfather get involved in the bridge building business, do you know?

GG: Well it was, I as I would imagine it was just one of the many things that had to be done uh, in those early days. You had to get across the Willamette River and somebody had to build a bridge. And I think he just fell into that as his , as his work, I wouldn't know anything else, because I , I don't of course don't know anything about uh, what skills he had when he came.

JL: How did he built his bridges?

GG: How did he? Well, I can't tell you that because it was, he was head of a company and he had a, he had a partner, and he had men working for him.

JL: He had men working for him?

GG: Oh yes.

JL: What type of men?

GG: Just ordinary men, who came across the plains, I guess.

JL: They weren't Chinese, or Oriental, or...

GG: Oh no, oh no. The, those early settlers that came across the plains, were some of our best uh American stock you know, they were just hunting for a new home, and they had the longing to go west and then when they uh, got here, they, 00:40:00those early pioneers had to do just everything that was done, and uh, uh they just uh, some I suppose, there was some men along who didn't know how build and the others learned from them and that's the way it went.

JL: Do you, can you remember...

GG: I don't really know how he must have been quite young you see, he must have been in his early 20's when he, when he came. So he couldn't of had much time to develop a profession before he came. But anyway, that's what he took up and uh 00:41:00he probably learned from others and uh, was quick enough to uh become head of the firm. Two men were head of the firm that built the bridges. They built bridges I know, all over Oregon. I suppose they made more effort...Delmer, do you remember that time Delmer...Delmer! Do you remember that time when we travelled long ago...

JL: You were saying some records of your Grandfather's bridges might be at Champoeg.

GG: They might be at Champoeg. Uh, I may be wrong about that...That just kinda 00:42:00rings... you know I never have been one to uh uh keep track of or or hunt down past past history and I pay a lot of attention. But that rings uh eh... if there is...is...if there is...an uh a building there that has uh historical uh information about early about early records of Oregon. Why there must be something there about my Grandfather.

JL: Ok... Do you remember seeing any of the bridges yourself?

GG: Oh...uh it uh...when we went to Portland, uh we uh used to when I was a very small child, we used to have to uh go down to the river, the Willamette river, and cross the river, on a ferry. And then take what they call a narrow gauge, 00:43:00uh...railroad into Portland, but uh that was uh all over by the time I was school aged. And uh we had regular street cars service down into the city.

JL: Was your Grandfather gone much of the time? Or did you spend much time with him?

GG: Uh no... uh he was gone quite a bit. I didn't spend I didn't really uh no my Grandfather don't remember him being intimately., uh. . . intimate with my grandfather. He was a kind, of reserved man. But I spent lots of time with my grandmother.

JL: AND what year was it that he signed over his business to his partner?

GG: Wh-what time...

JL: What year was it that he signed over his business to his partner?

GG: Oh...It'll be awfully hard for me to...to tell you... it must have been, I must have been...six years old....so it would be about 1898.

JL: It just wax very uncharacteristic of him to be, to take any kind of alcohol.

GG: Ye, you see he had never taken alcohol any... he wasn't uh, he wasn't easy to handle uh was hard to handle I'm sure, because he would get drunk very easily. He eh, uh, eh was not a drinker. And I don't know the circumstances 00:45:00under which it happened but I know that that was why it happened because they wanted to tick him out off ...and when he came...to himself here he was.

JL: I bet he was a very sad man.

GG: Uh, he was a very broken man. And so was my grandmother who was already ill. So it was, it was a as it was in many families, but in those days you know, uh the problem of drinking was very different than it is now. Uh, lots of men, who were very good men, uh did lots of drinking and would go into saloons and drink, but uh, a saloon was a place that I uh shied from, By I never have thought about 00:46:00entering such a place. And uh I know my grandfather was not a drinker at all. But uh under the circumstances... uh were uh what all that happened.

JL: Now you your sisters was born to uh 1889 and then you were born in 1892, did you have any other brothers and sisters?

GG: Just the two of us.

JL: What is your sister's full name?

GG: Her name is Charters. Uh...Ernest Charter's her husband has long been dead. And my sister lives in uh, in... Rose Villa uh, retirement home in Portland. It's a very lovely place.

JL: What's her first name?

GG: Beatrice.

JL: Beatrice. Now how did your mother and father meet each other?

GG: Well uh, (chuckled) my father, as I said, came out in the gold rush to Nevada.

JL: Oh you didn't say that.

GG: Didn't I say that?

JL: Uh Uh, tell me about that.

GG: Well, as a young, as a very young man, uh they had uh, this uh apparently this uh, uh fever of going west and uh eh uh... the uh gold mines discovered in Nevada.

JL: Do you know where in Nevada?

GG: Uh oh, I've forgotten. I don't remember the town...uh ...but uh, anyway I remember this saying uh that he made and lost a fortune. And I know, enough about the Klondike of a Russian? ought to know, that many men made a fortune and uh that they uh the hysteria over over the uh gold rush and the finding of the gold made regular ...beasts out of them and they there was just a matter of stealing and all kinds of crookedness and it was easy to uh to lose what you 00:49:00had gained. The thing that I feel that showed my father's character was that they said he made and lost a fortune and then he left. He did not go on with that you see. It was ca... It becomes a regular uh mania with urn and all. But he was in his younger days quite a ...well as I told you in those warly pictures of him he's supposed to be quite a dresser and all. And but, he came married when he was there and his wife died of childbirth, her name was Bill Bill Chatterton. And Bill he was a very shy young man apparently because that's 00:50:00what I've been told but mother Chatterton the mother of Bill, and she had uh, sons also uh was very much taken with my father and uh they all followed my father up to Oregon.

JL: How did he meet Bell?

GG: How did he meet Bell? Well the Chattertons were all down there at uh the uh Nevada in the gold rush. Uh, hysteria, and the saying goes that he made and lost his fortune and he lost his wife, and he came up to Oregon.

JL: Did he tell you anything about being in Nevada, mining for gold?

GG: My father was a very silent man, uh he loved his home and he uh eh when he came home from his run, he was home and he never left his home. And uh eh uh he uh but he never talked, and he was very proud of his daughters, but he was not a companion to us. He was shy in a way, very shy in a way. But I never would, never visited with him or talked about the old days or anything like that, you know. I don't remember ever being cuddled by my father or anything like that. He was a shy man.

JL: Tell my about he came up to Oregon with all the Chattertons?

GG: Well, there was this mother Chatterton we called her Mother Chatterton. She was really quite an in love with my father and she... just and all her tribe just followed him up here.

JL: And how many was that?

GG: Well, (chuckles) it was Chaleaf and his wife, and they had...two daughters which were young ladies when I was a little girl, and three sons. And by that time uncle Jock, Uncle Jock, which was a brother of my father had come out and he joined he lived near the Chattertons. And I know our favorite excursion on Sundays was uh to take the streetcar and we had to make a transfer we'd go over 00:53:00to the Albina area where they lived and we visited them on Sundays.

JL: So when did they come out here? When did your father come to Oregon?

GG: Well...the only way I can figure that out is that I told you that I when I was born and my sister was born and that they were married uh uh.. . . probably uh, two years at least before my sister was born. And she was born in '89 so that would be '87. And uh I think they were uh married within uh uh a matter of a year or so after my father came here to...

JL: How did he, why did he....

GG: (mumbling)

JL: I'm sorry... he came in '86? Do you know why he came to Oregon?

GG: Uh, no except that he must have been interested in Oregon as a as a place that uh nice place to live and uh wanted to get away from Nevada. I wouldn't know any other reason because he he didn't have uh you see he was uh very young uh, very young man still. And uh, he uh, he had a life to make for himself he never went back, he never went back to uh to the New England, ever. Of course in those days it was uh... like going around the world, now if you come from the east out to west and came west you were west that's all.

JL: Well how did your father meet your mother?

GG: Now that I have no idea.

JL: You mentioned that he was older than your mother?

GG: Yes, he's 21 years older than she. And how he met her I don't know excepting that my grandfather was a rather prominent man and Portland was not all that big. And uh, the way they met... (Chuckles)

JL: Well you grandfather must have been impressed with your uh father? Before... he would allow him to marry his daughter.

GG: I think so. Uh may father was a very fine man but he was very. Never went anywhere...to amount to anything. We lived right across the street from the Presbyterian church and uh my mother was a right in over her head with things all the time and my father never took part in anything, he always just happy to be at home. He had a special jacket, a smoking jacket, though he didn't smoke, (chuckle) and his slippers he'd get home and he'd get into his best clothes and has smoking jacket and he was happy. And uh, we had uh double lack in the corner and uh we owned a lot a joining where we build a house. But we had a lot of fruit trees, that a got a... interesting to me, by the time I was a little girl I was climbing those trees, eating cherries, and apples and plums. Ha, ha. But my father was just happy to be at home, and quiet.

JL: How did he learn about the railroad business?

GG: I don't know that. All I know was, that they say, they asked him if he could run an engine. Now whether he could or not I don't know, but he said he could, and he did. Me was the first, first uh engineer on the railroad. That's the story that I've heard told many times. But whether he had ever had anything to do with an engine while he was in Nevada, I don't know.

JL: What did he do on the railroad, what dial kind of things did he do as an engineer?

GG: He was the engineer, the first engineer. The oldest engineer. I er, all I don't mean to say the oldest, the senior engineer. And uh, he had the best run, is going up to the Umatilla. It's about 200 miles I imagin--- If I remember rightly. They say nothing now, but then it was.

JL: Tell me, ok--

GG: He took great pride in his uh in his uh, he said now you know I don't know you've ridden a lot on a train or not, but in those days there was no other way of going anywhere and lot of trains when they stopped why they'd bump you bump, bump you know and you, you give you quite a little jolt. My father said there was no excuse for that, and uh (cough) we had, wh had a pass we could always ride anywhere on the train, we could go east or anywhere. But when you were on his train you never knew when it started or when it stop. You couldn't tell, you 00:59:00just couldn't tell when it, when it actually stopped, or when it actually started. He took a great deal of pride in running that engine.

JL: Did he help build the uhm railroad, build the railroad tracks, or...

GG: No.

JL: He was not, so ever since you can remember he was a locomotive engineer?

GG: Yes. He was a locomotive engineer all his life, after he came to Oregon. And how uh, it just happened that they had built the road and they were looking for engineers and, and my father said he could run an engine. Well whether he could 01:00:00or couldn't, I don't know, he did anyway.

JL: Can you remember what he wore?

GG: Well, he was very, very careful about what he wore. He had black shirts. And uh, certain suit that he wore when he was working. And he went up to Umatilla, it's about, oh it's about 200 mile run, one day and uh some of the men had uh, little, uh house there., where they would stay all night. And then the next day he came home. Well just as soon as he came home, he got out of his black shirt, He had his home clothes and his smoking jacket as I say, he was a very neat man. 01:01:00And his special slippers. (Chuckle) and he was always dressed that way when I saw him.

JL: What would they carry up to Umatilla, Umatilla?

GG: What'd he carry? Well he, he was a passenger train, a long passenger train. Of course, I guess in the early days he ran a freight train, but it wasn't very long. He had the first, the best run on the read. And he, anytime that I remember he was running a passenger train. That was a way of travel in those days. Nobody had a car. I was a young girl when my father was just about to buy a car, when he got sick and died. He had gallstones, and they operated and he 01:02:00didn't survive it.

JL: Why was it the best run?

GG: Well, it was because, it was the best time of day, the best...

JL: Say that again.

GG: Well it, it was the best he got so he ran the uh, train that left at the most convenient hours and uh, they uh, he had this long period at home every third day. Every third day he was home all day. And uh, he had more leisure than they called him the senior engineer on the line. He prided himself very much. They called him Boston.

JL: They called him Boston?

GG: Uh huh.

JL: Why is that?

GG: Well he came from New England. I don't know any other reason.

JL: Everybody called him that, or

GG: Well, the engineer, the uh, the companions at work, the men he worked with called him Boston, nobody else did.

JL: I... You were saying that your father's friends called him Boston.

GG: The other engineers you know on the line, the men he worked with.

JL: Does that, did he have an accent, a New England accent?

GG: Well, I remember his telling of an accident that he had while he, while he was running a freight, he uh, running uh, freight train, that was uh probably in the early days of his uh, engineering. Where two trains collided one was loaded with flour and one was loaded with sugar sacks. And uh I remember his telling of how , how they piled up to when, they would fall over the, over the embankment and every time, it gave him an awful shaking up every time he started to get up, why he'd be knocked down again by a sack of sugar or sack of flour. And as these cars over turned you know and all, it was a bad experience. And uh, that and one other incident where the only accidents he ever had. The other one was when he 01:05:00was running passenger train and uh, there was a man that came, the railroad came along this way, and then there was a road that came, you could see from way, way off this road coming and it crossed the railroad track. And the train came around the corner and down this hill and my father could see the road for quite a little distance, but there was no reason at all for the man, who was sitting on the top of this uh, kind, of truck, uh, to, they said he wasn't deaf afterwards. But he kept right on coming and he didn't stop. And uh the man was killed.

JL: What was he in?

GG: Well he was sitting upon the high seat of this kind of a truck he was driving.

JL: It was a truck then, it was an automobile?

GG: No, no it was a, a it was a horse driven truck, they didn't, they didn't have automobiles in those days. But he did not, he didn't heed the train, or pay any attention to it, and they said he wasn't deaf, and my father well, it was almost more than he could stand. He said he just couldn't go on. But of course he did. They, he wasn't in any way to blame, and uh, they, they concluded that the man had just wanted, wanted to commit suicide. There was no other 01:07:00explanation, because he wasn't deaf, and he could see the train coming from a long ways. But he just kept right on coming and uh, the two accidents that my father had in all his lifetime. He died at 63. Which wasn't such a, a so young in those days, he had been retired of course.

JL: How many men worked with him on the railroad?

GG: Oh I don't know, there were lots of men. It got so there were lots of them when I was, when I was you know, big enough to know. But he was the first engineer.

JL: Did you ever get to ride with him?

GG: Oh yes many times, many times. And we had uh we had a ticket that gave us the privilege of riding anywhere. In fact the first trip that I took, uh to Illinois I rode free on the train, and uh when my mother came back to see me one, the second Christmas she, she came, although my father, uh my father was then dead, we still, she had a pass all her life.

JL: What do you remember about riding with him?

GG: Well I, all that I can remember is that there was a very fine train, and that as I tell you, you never knew when you started and you never knew when you stopped.

JL: Can you describe the interior of where he worked? In the train?

GG: Well uh, of course there this that picture of him with his engine. But he was the engineer, as the longer he worked, the more improvement there was in the type of engine. And he always had the best there was. But the one that we have a picture of him in, he was a fairly young man, and that uh that old smoke stack type of train, you know, they got so they ran with oil I guess, there was no smoke nor anything, and they very pleasant riding.

JL: Well can you remember something to describe, the smell of the train, or the 01:10:00interior of where he worked, or...

GG: Well he was, he was on the engine, right, right on his eyes, on straight ahead all the time, he was right there, he was running that train. And of course lots of times it had as many as twelve passenger cars. He was always, I never saw him a when I was on the train, but I would be riding in one of the coaches. But that was, I don't suppose you would remember too much about trains. That's was the way of getting anywhere for a long, long period. My father was just about to buy a, an automobile and in the days when they were first on the market, when he died.

JL: Was that the only run he ever engineered?

GG: Yes. He always, always his run.

JL: What kind of things did you do as a little girls, Mrs. Goode?

GG: What?

JL: What did you enjoy doing as a little girl?

GG: Oh I was a har um scare um. My mother said when I was, I suppose I may have been ten or eleven, she looked at me very strangely one day, and I said "What's the matter?" Well she said, "I guess I'm going to raise you after all." (Chuckle) I was a tumblebug, I was a little bit heedless about doing, uh I'm uh, well I remember at my uncle Jocks they had a porch, a high porch and it didn't have any railing. And I ran pell mell off the end, edge of that porch and fell about ten feet. Didn't hurt myself much, (chuckle) and one time I was playing, in a yard with children and they had some, put some sweet peas across the middle 01:12:00of the yard, and for about so far...

JL: About two feet

GG: There was just a string you know and then, then the things, vines began. Well I was, we were playing tag, hide-and-seek or something, and I ran pell-mell into that wire, caught me right across round the neck, and gave me quite a jolt. So I was always uh doing things, of course I was climbing trees, and I was in the woods, and I , I uh, went uh, wading Johnston Creek that ran through me grandmother's place and uh, one I guess I got, pretty near got myself drowned.

JL: Was that not unusually for a girl to be so active?

GG: I, little bit, little bit. I was always the leader of the gang. And uh my sister was just the opposite, she had her dolls, all lined up in a row never hardly ever played with them. And kept them just so, and she knew I used to say she knew if I took a pin out of her pincushion, (chuckle) But uh, ever played with my things, and uh I was always busy and uh, I was always uh, I say I wasn't, I wasn't content I finished High school and uh, we had a branch library 01:14:00in our neighborhood, and was very infederate reader, and in helping my mother, my sister being about three years older, she always dried the dishes, and I dried the silver and the tin things, as we called them. On the opposite side of the sink. See the sink was in the middle of the big kitchen and there was a pass pantry on this side where the dish cupboards where, and they had sliding glass doors. And on the other side was the pantry and that's where the silver and the kitchen ware went, and that's what I took care of. So when it was time to do it, I was always curled up in a chair reading a book. And my sister 01:15:00would call me to come and ... "Coming", I'd say, coming, and then I'd forget all about it. And about the third or fourth time I'd get called, I'd go and, and do it. But I was always wanting to do something else, that's the kind of kid I was. Up in a cherry tree or something.

JL: What did your mother teach you?

GG: What?

JL: What did your mother teach you?

GG: My mother well she didn't really teach me anything excepting that she was a very fine, very loving woman , and uh, very active in the community and in the church. And uh took care of everybody in the family, our home was, was a home to everybody.

JL: Didn't she encourage you to sew and cook and...

GG: Oh, I sewed, my gracious, every year as I grew into a young girl I made all of my clothes over. And I, I didn't get to sear them all, but I made them all over. And of course you wore big hats in these days and I'd make, we decorate my hats, so maybe I never wear them. But I was very uh busy fixing them, always. And uh, when I graduated from high school, I admired our librarian, our branch librarian very much, and I decided I'd like to be a librarian, so that fall, they, I'm sorry my voice is so horse,

JL: If you could remember the name of the town that your father had gone to when 01:17:00he went to Nevada was it Virginia City?

GG: Yes.

JL: Oh it was Virginia City. Because last time you couldn't remember.

GG: Oh did I? I don't remember that. Oh I've heard him speak of Virginia City. I think, I'm quite sure it was Virginia City.

JL: Did he tell you anything about that, the town?

GG: No. he never talked about it, at aly. When he left there, he just left there, that's all. He put it all behind him. He uh, his experience there was of course not only one of making and losing a fortune, but he married and lost his wife in childbirth. So he lost both his wife and his child. But uh, the uh, mother of his wife was uh, as they said, as the rest of her family used to say, was very much, was very partial to my father, just like she just, just kind of felt like she, she just had to go where he went, and so they all came up to Portland.

JL: That what you said.

GG: And that's in the early days, the very early days of Portland.

JL: Did she talk about uhm, being in Virginia City?

GG: No, I was an awfully little child and I wouldn't, well I remember more about it than sister does. As we have talked about it. I don't remember anything about Virginia City at all. Excepting that it was in a turmoil of the gold rush. Men making fortunes, and losing them. They uh, I know enough about the situation in Alaska to know that men go king of wild, and they are , a lot of them are crooked too. And they'll do all kinds of things to uh, uh, to get, when a man 01:19:00has, paned a lot of gold, they'll do most anything to get the money away from him... And the situation is anything but good as far as morals standpoint. And that is why I have always felt when I have thought about the situation that my father showed more character in leaving Virginia City then he did in going there. He went there, and when he had lost a fortune, and instead of going after it again, fee left it then, took up uh, different life.

JL: Well did he do the mining himself or, or how did he get the gold?

GG: I don't know, I suppose he must have. That's why he went there. I think they were uh, he was a very young man of course at that time uh, I don't know really just what his age was. You see, my knowing so little about those things is that my father was not a talker. He loved his home and he loved being home and he loved he had a whole day home, which most men don't have. Uh, every third day, and he loved his children I know that. But I, I know enough about physiology now to know that it would have better for us as youngsters if our father had been more demonstrative and intimate with us then he was.

JL: Why do you think he wasn't?

GG: Well he was a shy man for one thing. And he was rather reserved with everybody excepting my mother. And I uh, He was very proud of us, I always knew that. And uh, and uh, thought a great deal of us. But he was not, he didn't hold us and uh, fondle us or anything of that sort. I don't remember anything of that kind. And he didn't talk about the past. All I know is what I heard others say you see, about his experience of course one reason I suppose he wouldn't talk about was that he came up to Portland and met and married my mother and his life was entirely different. Uh surrounded by different people. Although we used 01:22:00to go on Sundays often across the city to visit the Chatterton's, there was a whole family of them.

JL: There was no resentment against your mother from the Chattertons?

GG: No.

JL: For marrying your father?

GG: No, not at all, they were just like the family. But we just good friends. But you see when I was, I was just a little girl, when Chaley Chatterton who was about my father's age, he had a wife and uh two daughters and two sons, the youngest sons was, was not around my age and we were great pals. But uh, but uh, there was a lots of visiting went on among them, I was just a youngster and I 01:23:00didn't pay much attention to it. Uh, there daughters grew up and married, and sons and uh, the time came when we didn't anymore, uh didn't get together so often, and uh, oh well there were deaths in their family and uh, uh, I remember aunt Flora died and one of the daughters died and as I was a young girl why we didn't see em anything of them anymore. But that was when I was a child.

JL: Did your father have any relics from being in Virginia City?

GG: No. Uh, there was a brother Jacque, who came out uh, came from New England, after my father came up here. And my father was influential in getting him a job, in the railroad yards. I don't remember just what Uncle Jacque did. But uh, he lived. But in that time in the Portland telephone book there were no Whipples. but uh Uncle Jacque and my father. No Whipples. And I remember my first trip east of my surprise in seeing billboards in New England with uh Whipple on it, maybe some advertisement, how you know how they used to have billboards, ha, ha to see the name Whipple was very strange to me.

JL: Well did he have any relics, from relics like gold pans, or nuggets, or anything like that? Nothing like that?

GG: Not that I know of.

JL: Do you think your father was tempted to go look for gold in Alaska, in the late 1800's?

GG: Nope. He was entirely cured. He never spoke of it. He was a railroad man, so far as I, so far as I ever knew.

JL: What do you remember about him carrying presidents or celebrities in his train, I guess that was common in those days?

GG: Well uh, no I wouldn't be able to name any. But I know he was considered the finest engineer (I wish my voice wasn't so rough husky) UH I know he was considered the finest engineer on the line. And uh the or man was very important in those days, because the only other, it was really the only by far the best way to get into eastern Oregon from Portland area. They uh, the I think there 01:26:00was probably a poor mountain road. I remember when the Columbia highway went through what a wonderful thing that was. But they had steamers in those days, with wheels you know at the rear of them like they had to have on the Mississippi know, we are our church always their picnic up the Columbia river at Multnomah Falls and we would go on one of those steamers with a stern wheel and it was really very nice. The only thing was the mosquitoes were awful bad 01:27:00ha, ha, we used to take pennyroyal along. Mosquitoes, they we just lots of mosquitoes.

JL: Pennyroyal?

GG: Well I maybe I'm wrong. I don't know.

JL: What's Pennyroyal?

GG: I don't know. Ha, ha, I just said that. I don't whether it was penny royal or not.

JL: What is that?

GG: I don't know.

JL: Oh

GG: I just said that. We took something along for mosquitoes I know that we'd rub on our arms. I uh, maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. I'm getting to the point where uhm, the right words don't always come to me. I won't to remember my neighbors name and maybe I can't think of it right away. I don't know I just said that.

JL: I've done that too, you're hot alone, ha, ha

GG: I don't know what pennyroyal is, I just something that comes out of my past.

JL: Well uhm, were excursions like your church picnic taken on your father's train also, and?

GG: No, it always went on the steamer, my father would go along. And uh, the steamer was very nice you know, very roomy and nice, nice decks, there's two decks on the steamer. It was really, they were fairly large boats and and uh lots of room for the people and very scenic the Columbia River is very scenic uh, either on the railroad or on the river. Because the railroad goes right along the river. And uhm, but the picnic was always by boat. By train it wouldn't have been so much fun because you couldn't be together in the same kind of way you know.

JL: What kind of things would you do on the steamer as you were going up the Columbia?

GG: Oh, we, wander all over the boat, and look at all the scenery and get into groups and visit, and uh, have fun, ha, ha,

JL: So you don't remember any celebrities that your father took on his train then?

GG: No, I wouldn't. It doesn't mean he didn't. But uh I don't recall his speaking of anything of that sort especially. JL: Where did he stay overnight when he would take his train?

GG: Well he went up to Umatilla, and there were several of the engineers that 01:30:00owned a little house up there. And uh who ever, whoever was on the run would stay there all night and come back the next day. And my father used to he had black satin shirts, I remember that ah, he was always very careful about his appearance. He wore a black satin, in those early days you know they burned coal, uh on the, in the engines, so it was not, kind of he, he he had them laundered up there, he wouldn't bring them home. But when he got home, he'd get right out of his those clothes and into different garb and uh, he wore a smoking jacket, although eh never smoke. But he had uh, smoking jacket that he wore, and uh, usually his slippers, and make himself comfortable. But he was always very 01:31:00careful to be clean and nice.

JL: Did you ever stay in the house up in Umatilla?

GG: No. I never saw it. He wouldn't, want his, wanted his family to.

JL: Why is that?

GG: Well it was just kind of a, man's uh nightstand and I think thy uh their 01:32:00purpose in having the place was just to sleep and uh, probably to have their breakfast and leave. It wasn't anything more than just a temporary sort of abode. He wouldn't have taken us there.

JL: How long would he stay overnight there?

GG: Well, uh I don't know, It would be just, I don't what time he got there, but it was sometime in the evening and he would leave in the morning, sometime very early. The run, the run was uh, well, took uh, uh, he left home I guess, of course he had to go turn down on the street car, he'd leave home about 9:00 or 9:30 and he got up there in the evening. So it was a day time trip. I used to often go up as far as the The Dalles, which is part way, about half way up there, because we had a lot of cousins in The Dalles. That's the fruit growing area.

JL: Tha's a what?

GG: A fruit growing area. Peaches, and watermelons and...

JL: So you never sat in the engine room with your father?

GG: Never, he, he wouldn't have wanted us to. He prided himself on running an engine very well. And I guess I told you about his saying that there was no excuse for starting or stopping with a jerk. And he prided himself on running it well. And of course in those early days he burned coal, so he, he uh wasn't as clean as he liked to be I'm sure. He uh, had coal dust on him. Then of course 01:34:00by the time I was up many size why there, they had electricity, they weren't running or using coal.

JL: Uh, how many hours a week would he work then?

GG: Well he went up one day and back the next. And the third day he was home. And that was just a regular routine. So you could see he worked, he had about two days tours and sometimes three, days off a week depended on, let's see there's an odd number of days so sometimes it would be two days and sometimes it would be three days he'd have off. During the week.

JL: Was there a union? That he belonged to?

GG: Yes, a union, an union and they uh, in those days there wasn't very much in the way of insurance, but there was an engineer insurance and which he carried. But he saved his money by building houses. That was he way and uh, he would build a house and rent it. And that was his investment and that's the investment he left my mother. See he, he died, of course I know he probably expected to die uh, much before she would because he was 21 years older. But you never thought about that, or at least I never did. He, he uh, he didn't seem old, but he had gall-bladder trouble which both of his daughters inherited. And uh, but he uh, although we had the best doctors, uh, available, they were 01:36:00unable to uh, he had a gall stone lodged in a duct and they were unable to locate it in time.

JL: What do you remember him telling you about sandstones along that line?

GG: Uh no he didn't have, I don't remember any trouble of that sort, the only 01:37:00trouble that he ever spoke of was these two collisions that I told you about last time. Otherwise he seemed to get, everything seemed to go very smoothly. And well there is, there was some uh, quite an abundance of sand I guess up around Umatilla, but I never been in that area myself, but up two thirds of the way on his run it is very lovely country.

JL: Weren't you curious to find out where he would stay overnight in Umatilla?

GG: Never, never occurred to me, (chuckle). No I was busy, oh I was an awful busy kid.

JL: What uh, what do you know about the DeMoss family?

GG: DeMoss? Nothing practically, except that they're a Corvallis family.

JL: They were from The Dalles area.

GG: They are?

JL: The musical group?

GG: I wouldn't know anybody in The Dalles, excepting my relatives there. Which we went occasionally in the summertime to visit two or three days. And we'd be on the farm, they had beg farm, the fruit farms, and uh I was really quite small at the time, we got over doing that. But uh, ha, ha, I remember one experience when I was quite a little girl, I, I went to sleep while they were, while they were visiting, I went to sleep on their couch and uh, and instead of taking me along to the bedroom with them, which they really should have done, they left me sleeping there and left the door ajar, and they thought they would know if I 01:39:00awakened. Well of course I wakened hearing the coyotes howl. Oh they make a mournful sound. And I was scared clear out of my wits, and I, and there I lay in a strange place with that awful noise going on. It would get nearer you know, and then it would go farther. So I went through quite an ordeal there, which I will never forget, before they discovered me.

JL: This was in The Dalles?

GG: This in The Dalles, uh-huh. I never went up farther then The Dalles on the railroad,

JL: How about on the steamer? Did you ever go very far on the steamer?

GG: On the steamer we went up to Multnomah Falls which is only oh, I says it's about not really halfway to The Dalles.

JL: What was at Multnomah Falls?

GG: Multnomah Falls, you don't the Multnomah Falls, well...

JL: What was there when you were...

GG: Well, I wish, I suppose I have a picture of Multnomah Falls. Multnomah Falls is a one of the largest falls, water falls, from the mountain uh, coming down, to uh, and to just is a great mass of falls and there's a, I don't know what it's like know I haven't seen it for many, many years. But uh there was a bridge across, uh so that you could climb up a certain distance and cross that bridge uh but the falls came down and then into a stream and of course ran on into the Columbia, river. But Multnomah Falls is the largest falls...

JL: Were there any structures there?

GG: In the area. What?

JL: Were there any structures there?

GG: No it wasn't a, it wasn't a living place, it was just a vacation spot.

JL: Were would you have your picnic?

GG: Well there was uh picnic areas, enough land and trees and area along, along the riverfront to make uh quite a large picnic area. The only drawback was the mosquitoes. (Chuckle)

JL: As a teenager in Portland, what kind of things did you do?

GG: Well as a teenager in Portland, I went to Washington high school, which uh, is on the east side, but still far enough, far enough from Sellwood, our, our area was Sellwood, which is on the, on the south edge of Portland. You come to Milwaukee, which is one of the spots where the early settlers came first, Milwaukee. And then Oregon City. Those two spots are the first settling places in Oregon. And then from Oregon City you come into the Portland area. And we could, uh after, after Milwaukee, comes Sellwood, which was originally almost a town of its own. But that's where my grandfather settled. And built his home. 01:43:00And at hat is where my father built his home. And we had uh, we had all the things that make up a community, But as I said when I was very small, which I won't remember anything much about, I just know that we went across the Willamette River on a, what I want to say, uh, a boat.

JL: Ferry?

GG: Ferry boat, to the other side of the river. And there we would get what they 01:44:00called a narrow gauge. Uh, railroad down to the city. But I don't remember much about that I was too small. By the time I was up any age. Why we had our own Sellwood streetcar tine that ran into the city and of course there would be the spot where before we crossed the bridges, I would, we would get off a bunch of us and walk the rest of the way, which was uh, oh about twenty blocks to the high school. And it was a large high school by the time I got there. A thousand, anyhow.

JL: So you had to take the streetcar to get to high school?

GG: Yes I had to, there was a time or two, I remember once in a blizzard, when 01:45:00it came up of a sudden and they let us out in the middle of the afternoon and everything was tied up and we had to walk home.

JL: How far was that?

GG: And I lead the gang, I led the gang singing "In the good old summertime" everybody was about frozen to death. We got home. JL: What did you do in your leisure time?

GG: Well, I, I painted pictures, and read books, and climbed the cherry tree or the apple tree or what not.

JL: What kind of friends did you make?

GG: We had uh, well we had two or three neighbors, that we, that I had grown up with. And we, we'd play together. By the time I was in high school of course that sort of thing was over. And I was an infederate reader. And, I uh, I was always with a book, and that is the reason I thought I wanted to be a librarian, I admired, we had a brach librarian, I admired her very much. And I was always 01:46:00reading and uh, when I was supposed to help dry the dishes, why uh I would be reading, curled up in a chair reading, and my sister would call me and I 's say coming and I'd forget And she'd call me about three times a before I'd finally get there. But I was always reading, so when I got through with high school I thought that I would like to be a librarian. And as usual I didn't get down to of course in a librarian examination they can ask you anything under the sun usually, you don't have any idea what they are going to ask you about literature most anything. And uh, so it was rather hard to prepare for and I didn't get at 01:47:00it too soon, but when I got there in the morning it was an all-day examination. And it was in a very large room, not very far, well in the library there, it wasn't very far away from the high school, I attended. When I got there there were at least 100 to take the examination, and among them I saw several of my teachers, among them my English teachers. And I thought I may just as well walk out, but I didn't. I wrote all day, and when I went home, I didn't have any idea of getting anywhere, so I packed my bag and went to visit some friends in Olympia. I hadn't anymore got over there until I got a telephone call to come 01:48:00home. I was one of six choses to be a librarian. I don't know how it happened, it just must have been something intriguing about my paper I don't know, I don't see how I could have been one of six, but I was anyway. And so I was a branch librarian for two years.

JL: You didn't need any kind of schooling to be a librarian?