Eva Blackwell Oral History Interview, October 18, 1979

JL: Today we'll start with your years at this institution, when you came in 1920 as a student.

EB: Student 4 years.

JL: Right, and your time working at the Registrar's Office.

EB: I started in 1925 and quit in 65.

JL: I know! What's, when you were a student,

EB: I started in '24. Right after I graduated. I knew I had 41 years. '41 to '65.

JL: When you were a student, what subjects were you most interested in? I know you entered the School of Commerce,

EB: Well that's the school I was in. Oh I thought I'd be a bookkeeper, but changed my mind on that. I don't know. Was just a general course I think. Stenography was the, I started in the Registrar's Office with a stenography. And 00:01:00then I switched right into Admissions.

JL: So who taught Stenography when you were a student?

EB: Oh, the lady named uh, oh I can't think of her name. Taught beginning. Minnie Frick. She's been dead long time. She' was tall, angular, but she was a whiz. And then our 2nd year, was Lillian Burns. And she was a perfectionist. And uh, you knew exactly what she wanted right now, when.

JL: How did they approach teaching stenography?

EB: I don't remember.

JL: It's a long time ago.

EB: Yea. It, it was Gregg. That was the name, you know there's Pittman, I had a friend in college who'd had it in high school in Portland, and she wrote Pittman, and ours was Gregg. I don't know if the have different kinds now or 00:02:00not. I don't think anybody uses it anymore. Think they're all machines.

JL: Explain to me what Gregg is.

EB: Well that was the, apparently the name of the man that was the style we wrote. Like you write Spenserian writing, or it was just the type of shorthand that was. Now I don't' suppose they even, I wonder if they even teach shorthand. Cause everything's these uh little machines.

JL: Dictation machines?

EB: Yes.

JL: What was the reaction to you as a woman in the School of Commerce?

EB: Well I don't think I was, I don't think I contributed to anything. (Chuckles). My grades weren't too bad. I made the Honorary.

JL: I guess what I mean is, was it unusual for women to be in a business school

EB: No. No you see it wasn't divided then into business and stenography, and secretarial like it is now. School of Commerce, now if you were in an accounting class, you probably would be in a class mainly men. Male. And the uh, secretarial classes, like shorthand and all, they'd be mostly women. And typing.

JL: Oh so you were in Secretarial Science?

EB: I was a Secretarial Science major, not the business major. I took one year of accounting, but uh not, not as a major.

JL: What courses in secretarial science did men take?

EB: Well I suppose some of them took secret - I'm on - I think mostly the accounting side and see our government, we took political science, and economics and all those things along with it.

JL: You don't remember any of

EB: No I don't remember any specific ones. My transcripts down-stairs. You can go down and look at it and see what I signed up for. Laughing. It's framed, hanging up down there. Ah, a copy of it they made on the machine at the office for me, and I stuck it up there. But we had government and we had, course we had 4 years of P.E. and, and uh Economics, Then the electives. I took one term of sewing. We could take any electives that we could work in with it you know, like over in Home Economics or government courses. I know we took uhm, we had to take International Relations I think was one of the.

JL: Why is it that uhm not many women considered going into business, uh 00:05:00forestry, engineering,

EB: I don't know. Now more are going into engineering and forestry.

JL: Why do you think in your day they didn't? When you were a student.

EB: Oh, you just never heard of it.

JL: Never considered it.

EB: No.

JL: You mentioned last time that you were active in sports. Why didn't you consider going into P.E. Physical education.

EB: Well you'd had to teach it. And I, I had no desire to be a teacher. Ah there are 4 peo - 4 professions whom I think are dedicated; that's Preachers, and Nurses, and Teachers, and - what's the other one - I can never think of it, unless you're dedicated you better stay out of that field, cause those aren't things that you can learn out of books. You have to have a feeling for it, far's as I'm concerned. Last thing I'd want to be is a nurse. Doctors is 00:06:00the other one! Preachers, Doctors, Nurses, and - what's the other one I said - Teachers. If you're not dedicated and have a feel for those, and I didn't have - I've always been, a, a very, I think I'm a very good follower, but I don't consider myself a leader. I belong to Business and Professional Woman's club since 1928. 2 years I was State Treasurer, all I did was keep the books and balance em, but I wouldn't consider, oh I been of committees with other people, but as for being a President or any of that, Uh Huh.

JL: You'd rather be in the background.

EB: I gotta be in the background. Something I can do myself. I'm a good follower I think, but I'm not a leader. Only thing I can leads my dog. (Chuckling)

JL: What kind of facilities did they have for women in physical education?

EB: Well, not like they have now that's for sure, but we had the what's not Mitchell Playhouse was the us, Women's Gymnasium. It had been the Armory and then it was the, it'd been the Armory during the, well I don't know when it became women's physical education. The basement part of it was the Museum. You people have a hard time getting in there now. But, and it was very crowded. Oh we had, we had all the sports, but uh, like volleyball, baseball, tennis, basketball, I don't know. Not as big a, a variety I guess as they 00:08:00have now. I don't remember a cross-country or any of that stuff.

JL: Did they have it - what kind of equipment did they have?

EB: Oh we had good. We had black bloomers, baggy ones, and black tops. And uh, Most of the competition was between classes. I think we did have some competition maybe with the University of Oregon, but I can't remember. An old Beaver would show that if we did. But uh, it was mostly class teams.

JL: You were ever, you played baseball, softball you said?

EB: It was baseball.

JL: You remember an exciting game?

EB: No not any, I know I played in the field. That's another place I liked to be alone. I don't, I wasn't too, I liked volleyball, but I wasn't crazy about basketball. Now in those days, basketball had 6 players, you had a running center, which I was, cause I was short, and a jumping center. And I 00:09:00wasn't too crazy about basketball cause it was too much contact. I liked volleyball but I liked baseball the best. I played out in the field.

JL: What position?

EB: I don't know whether it was center field, or right or left, but anyway, it wasn't where anybody was going to run into me. (Laughing)

JL: You don't like contact sports?

EB: No, apparently I, well I don't know whether I don't remember being afraid of em, but it just happened that I, that I and I still prefer that kind a -Now I like to watch basketball, but I'd be no good at playing it. Maybe there's always been a little fear in there. Although I'm not afraid of, but I'm ca -I, I'd say I'm a careful person. Even now, I'm careful. I have a fear now at my age you know, of well it's not a fear that bothers me, but I'm al -careful that I'm not gonna fall down if I can help it. There's always that 00:10:00in the background that, and probably I was that way then, I don't know.

JL: What was the reaction from other women towards uh, well on campus towards you being involved in sports? How was that regarded?

EB: Oh I had a lot of friends. I don't know whether anybody thought about it or not. But we all got along. We didn't travel much like, I don't ever remember us going over to the University to play them or any of that. It was all, inter class -mostly interclass.

JL: It wasn't considered unladylike to be involved in sports?

EB: No. We didn't wear jeans and that, but uh we had these big bloomers.

JL: Describe them for me.

EB: Well I can't. I bet, well they were just bla - they pulled up and I guess had a belt, but they were full. I'll bet they were, if you'd lay em out flat, 00:11:00I bet they were at least 12 or 15 inches. And that elastic below, just below the knee. And uh, a blouse that pulled on over your head you know. Was like a, they called them a middy blouse then. You wore those, and then after the, well during, it was after the war, no, the war, we had a, I know I had a blue flannel navy blouse that I was real proud of. And uh, a lot of people wore them. Middy blouse you'll probably find some of them in that book. They pulled on over your head and had a tie like the Navy boys wore.

JL: This was after WWI?

EB: See it was out in 1918, and this was the 20's.

JL: Were they comfortable?

EB: Oh yea. Yea. Long sleeved with the cuffs. I suspect there's some in that book. And they were flannel. They were nice, nice material. Navy blue 00:12:00with a square collar, and braid around it, real narrow braid, I think 3 stripes. And then a black tie. Came under the collar and tied loose down here. In a V-neck.

JL: As a student, what do you remember about the Administrators of the college?

EB: Well, not much till I started to work, cause I got, I got in no trouble. I liked all my instructors. I guess I did. I don't remember not liken any of them. And then when I, when I started to work, I worked for Dean Lemon, who just passed away. And worked for him uh, 19 years, till he was moved to President's office.

JL: So you really didn't have much contact then with Dr. Kerr and all? Until you came to the Registrar's office?

EB: No uh huh, only contact you'd have with them in those days when the faculty, well in fall, they'd always have a reception you know for new faculty, like they do now. But in those days, the faculty was all one. There was no uh classified and administrative. Was just all one. Everybody went to those things, so you'd probably get to shake hands with him, that'd be it. But uh, other than that, you didn't have any contact unless, only with your instructors. Mostly.

JL: What professors in the school of phar - school of commerce stand out in your mind?

EB: Oh boy. Well I'd have to say Professor Robinson I guess for one of em, because uh I had a year of accounting in high school, and I, and I was the only one in my high school class - my first year in high school was taught by the 00:14:00country teacher, had all the grades. One thru me. And I took a year of accounting then, well I got to college, they asked me if I'd had accounting, and I said yea, one year in high school. So they put me in 2nd year. Boy I bout perished! If it hadn't been for Dr. Robinson, I never would have made it. But anyway

JL: Why?

EB: Well, I, I didn't have the, I'd forgotten, you see I'd stayed out of high school 2 years before I came. Then I probably took this course bout my sophomore or junior year, so I'd forgotten everything I had learned.

JL: How did he help you?

EB: Well I - just go over and he'd straiten - I don't know, he'd just help me - straighten me out cause I, I don't know. I'll have to look that grade up. I'll bet it's a "C". I don't think I got a "D", but I'll bet I I'll bet that one's a "C". I don't know. I liked uh, well course I liked my PE courses, 00:15:00and I liked all, I liked shorthand and the typing.

JL: What experiences did you have with Dean Bexell?

EB: Well he was our Dean and uh, no, no special contact with him. Was just, you'd meet him at places or in the hall, but

JL: What kind - what organization or club did they have for Commerce students?

EB: Well they had their Honorary, Phi Chi Theta.

JL: Were you a member?

EB: Uh huh. I made that. I still have my pin. I never wear it now. Nobody'd know what it was.

JL: What kind of things did they do? Together?

EB: Nothing special, no. It was just an Honorary. You joined and then they'd, I can't even remember if they had a meeting. I suppose they did now and then, but no social. It was just an honorary you belonged to and that was 00:16:00it. I don't remember that they had any, any projects you know, like the, the clubs now. Well I don't think these Honoraries have much social life do they?

JL: So there was really no social organization at the School of Commerce?

EB: No. Uh huh.

JL: What about any kind of projects or speakers, that came from the community, out of the community? To speak to the Commerce peo - students?

EB: Well they would be arranged through the Dean's office. We wouldn't have anything to do with it.

JL: What projects or, uh

EB: I don't remember any! No. I just remember going to class. Some of em were 4 times a week. And some were 3, most of em were just 3.

JL: You mentioned last time that smoking was not allowed on campus. Well what was the penalty for smoking on campus then if someone did?

EB: I don't know. I don't know weather's a penalty or not. But I don't think there was cause you just didn't do it. As I say ever entrance, now like down at uh, I suspect on Jefferson Street at 9th, and every entrance to the campus whatever they were, had a orange stripe about that big across the sidewalk.

JL: About 8" wide?

EB: About 4". And you didn't cross that stripe. You didn't smoke on the campus side of that. Now maybe they weren't clear down there at 9th Street, I don't know. The one I remember was behind the Commerce building. Which would be right out there by Sheppard Hall now. And because right behind the Commerce building, where the, let's see now, Sheppard Hall is still there. It would be right west of Sheppard Hall. Just, just a street between the 00:18:00commerce building, or just a sidewalk between was the, was 2 fraternities, Sigma Chi and SPE. And uh right in front of their walk you could, in front of their porch you could smoke, but then soon as you left them and hit campus, why then that line was right across the sidewalk then. Was red and bout 4" wide. And then...

JL: That was directly for not smoking.

EB: Yea, Yea, You didn't, now they didn't smoke on campus till after the War.

JL: WWII?

EB: WWI. 18 when the people begun to come in the 20's you see.

JL: Why did they allow it after the War?

EB: Well they, veterans just came and they did it. Just couldn't control it very well.

JL: How bout women? Did they start after the war then?

EB: They didn't - No no, I don't think I, I don't think any women, I knew one woman who smoked and she'd been in the war. She lived in Waldo and she'd 00:19:00sneak out to smoke. She was a Pharmacy student. And a nice person. I knew her and liked her, and I don't know whether she's still alive or not. But she would sneak out of the building cause she'd been in the Army, and uh I guess several years and she smoked in the Army. But she, she'd sneak out of Waldo to smoke.

That's the only woman I knew that smoked. I'm not sure they even started I don't know when they started. Maybe it was after the next World War. Because I don't remember them smoking when I first started to work, which ' be '24 and that would be 6 years after 1918 war. I don't think they smoked on campus the whole time I was on there. So I don't know, now I don't know how could tell you when they started to smoke on campus. I doubt if the catalogs would mention it. Probably not.

JL: What organizations for women were you involved in?

EB: Well just Phi Chi Theta. Yea.

JL: Well that, that

EB: That was the Honorary and I didn't make Phi Kappa Phi until after I'd, oh I think it's the year I retired. Mr. Goode, D.M. Goode, you've heard of him, he's still on campus, but he put my name in. The year I retired. 1965, he put my name in for Phi Kappa Phi. And then he told me later, he thought I belonged all those year. Now when I was in school, it was called Forum. And it was quite sel - select. They just, it was a small group and I think, I don't know, you'd have to look up and see when that became Phi Kappa Phi. But I think sometime while I was in school. Probably 1920 or 21 or 22. They made it a National, It was called Forum here, it was a local. And then 00:21:00it was affiliated, I don't know what year. But uh,

JL: So Delmer Goode

EB: Delmer Goode took my name as I understand it, to Phi Kappa Phi, and 1965.

JL: Oh, that's an honor.

EB: Yea, It was. I thought it was real nice of him. And he told me later he thought, I didn't know he'd taken my name into em, excuse me.

JL: What contact is the student - what contact did you have with the Dean of Women, when you were a student?

EB: None, Thank Goodness. I was a good girl.

JL: (Laughing) You didn't know Mary Wolf at all?

EB: I, I knew who they were, met them just in a group you know, student, but I had no direct contact. That I remember.

JL: So you graduated in 1924 and went directly to work for E.B. Lemon?

EB: Uh hum. I was home 2 weeks. I graduated and came back to work July 1st. Well I guess Commencement was about the 9th or 10th of June, and I came back on July 1st.

JL: Well, in the 20's when you started working, how would you characterize E.B. Lemon? How would you describe him?

EB: Well he was Fair. Very fair. He expected, he expected you to put out what you were capable of. To do your part, but uh, uh I've never known, if there was a reason that you needed uh, a day off or something like that, you always got it. But course in those days we were a real busy at the beginning of the term, and at the end of the term. Everything was done by hand. We'd register you see on a day and then we'd sort all those class cards by classes. 00:23:00They'd all come into the Registrar's office. We'd work that night till 10 o'clock or so, and we'd get all the business add cards in 1 bundle, all the PE cards in a bundle, every class card in a bundle, and he and I would deliver those that night around on the, in front of the doors of the buildings. So they'd have em

JL: Explain to me the whole process. OK Start from [unintelligible]

EB: Well there was, each department stayed in their own, pretty much in their own building. It wasn't done like it is now. It didn't have a building like the Coliseum. But the Registrars' office we usually set up in the men's gym. That was the biggest place we could get. So you'd go there and pick up your material. Then you'd have to go around, if you were taking Economics, you'd go over to their building, and sign up for your Economics. You'd go over to Commerce, sign up for your typing. You'd go somewhere else and sign 00:24:00up. You went to each department, round over the campus, to get your approval. Then you came back to that building, probably the Dean of men and the Dean of Women's office would be near us, cause that, you'd get their approval. And then you'd turn it in there to the, you'd pay - the fees would be near us to pay your fees and then we'd check your receipt and collect your material. But you picked

your cards up at each individual department.

JL: What did you do the night before registration then?

EB: The night after registration. Well we did set up lot of departments in the men's gym, or the, down in the armory. Which is Mitchell Playhouse. We'd pay fees down there, and we could have a lot of departments down there. But uh, some of em you'd have to go to the office to get them. Then that, at 5 o'clock we closed up and took everything up to the office, and the whole staff would work that night. And we'd have all these class cards, so we had the 00:25:00campus mailman came to our office, That was his headquarter, so he had this mail box with all the pigeon holes in, each department. Then we'd stand and sort these cards and that, in those pigeon holes, got em all segregated, tie em up that night and usually he and I would deliver them round to the doors that, in front of the door, we'd take the Economics cards over and put in their building, he had a key to all the buildings. So when you went to teach your Economics class the next morning, here were your class cards. In a bundle if front of your door.

JL: My Gosh!

EB: And you had to sort em out, course by number, and see which section you took. That was your problem, not ours.

JL: Why didn't the students sign up when they went to the individual departments? Why did you have to sort them out later?

EB: Well, OH they didn't leave the card, because they, when we, when they turned the material in, we checked the cards against their official card to see if they had a card for each one. And then we kept it. All the student left with was 00:26:00his fee receipt.

JL: He really didn't know if he was going to get the courses until

EB: He got that when he picked up the class card. See when you come over, when I went over to get a Economic card from you for Monday, Wednesday and Friday at 8 o'clock, you looked on your list, if you had room for me, you approved it, so he knew he was in that class. If he didn't why he'd adjusted you there, and you had to change it before you turned it in.

JL: So you and Dean -

EB: Well we had the whole staff, when I started to work there were 8 of us I think, in the office. Whole staff worked, that night. That maybe second night too. But he, he had a car and just happened I wo - some of em had families and just happened I wasn't, well don't know, I don't know why. Guess I just liked to run around, so I usually went with him. We'd deliver em to all these places.

JL: Just leave the bundle in front of the door?

EB: Uh hum. Buildings were all locked you see, but he'd have a - there was no night class. No lights in the buildings at night then, Like there are now. You go there at night and the whole campus is lit up. Somebody's working in a lab or, I never saw so many lights as they have, except the Library. Course it was open till 10 o'clock.

JL: Would you ah, What were your duties in the Registrars' office? During the rest of the quarter then?

EB: Well, as I say I was hired as a stenographer, then I gradually worked into ah, to Admissions. Oh we had letters to take, then the nex - uh, day, course we all well I don't know - we didn't have such specialized jobs except the uh, Graduation clerk. Course she checked on graduation requirements. And then 00:28:00the uh, Well mine was mostly stenographic. I didn't wait on the counter. I uh, well I checked the, all the athletic eligibility lists. Course they began to come in.

JL: What's that involve?

EB: Football. Well we had to check on if they'd completed, ah see, 12 hours a term previous, and they were not on probation, and they were carrying, guess they had to be carrying 12 hours, We had to check their record anyway. Scholastic record. And if they were below a certain average, they couldn't play. Or if they were on probation, they couldn't play. Then they'd scurry around the get a grade change or something if they could, and get their record up where it could, and then we, but that was our business and then we had to type that list up enough copies to send a copy to each member of the conference. So that would be called the Athletic Eligibility list.

JL: And you had to do this by hand in the 20's then. And later too.

EB: Oh yea. I don't know, I don't know who does it now. How they do it.

JL: Well you ah, you went thru registration 3 times a year then and worked, all night long, and summer school? 4 times. That amazing!

EB: Well it was a lot of work and we thought nothing of it. See we'd work - we didn't get overtime for that, but if you wanted off sometime, why you uh, you didn't hesitate to ask for it, because you had worked probably 2-3 hours that registration night - overtime, but nobody kept track of it. You just got check, but you uh, you knew you had it, Maybe you kept your own account, but if you asked for a day off, or if you were sick, you didn't have to make it' up or any of that. Course I think, I don't know what their sick leave was 00:30:00now. I think they have a certain number of days now they can be sick.

JL: What did the uh, people in the registrar's office do? What were the duties? In the 20's?

EB: Oh, well registration, and then transcripts, just like now, only they were all typed.

JL: Tell me about that. What do you mean?

EB: Well, if you want a transfer from Oregon State over to the University, we had to type your whole record up and they weren't photostat or any of that. Everything was typed. You'd send it over there. And see that was just about one girls job. I never had to make transcripts. But we checked uh, then we had check pledge lists for initiation, sorority and fraternity -

JL: You had control of that?

EB: Well we had their academic records you see, and we had control of that.

JL: What did you, what did that involve?

EB: I don't remember. I guess that they had so many credit, I don't know. They'd bring us a list

JL: You had all the statistics.

EB: We had, yea, well like the enrollment figures. Now the first night we, by the time we went home that night, we knew how many had registered and how many were men and how many women and how many were new students and how many were old students. That was all, now they do it all by computer, but we made all those by hand, and then at the end of the term, we checked all the eligibility lists for sorority and fraternity initiation, all the athletic ability, eligibility lists.

JL: What was Dean, what was E.B. Lemon's job? What did he, what was his primary job?

EB: Well he, he was to oversee the whole process of our office, and it did a lot more things than it does now. Well I guess Mr. Gibbs is on a lot of different committees.

JL: What did, what does that mean? What did Lemon do then?

EB: Well, he had very close connection, course with the President's office and then sometime after I started to work. I don't know just, not too long after, they started what they call the uh, high school visitation. Which was a uh, well we sent, well you know Dean Polling, or who he is. His father was our high school visitation man for years. And visited all the high schools in the state, recruiting students for - same thing they do now.

JL: How did they do it back then?

EB: Sent somebody to visit the schools, and gave a, Spore that met in the assembly and just told what Oregon State had to offer. I don't know what they did.

JL: You never went?

EB: No. No. It was a man. His father was the first one I think to do 00:33:00it, and now they recruited even last year in Hawaii. Mr. Gibbs went to Hawaii last year.

JL: So did Lemon also do some of the recruiting then?

EB: No he didn't go out himself. He uh, he was on a lot of committees on campus. I don't know.

JL: You mentioned that he had a, strong connection with the Presidents' office?

EB: Oh yea. Uh hum. He was the, well I think a, I'd call him the, the first person under the President. I mean he was very close to President Kerr. And they didn't have assistants and Deans of Administration and all that. Each school had a Dean, but they, uh, as I say our office had charge of this High School visitation program. And then he went out quite often on a, in the spring Lot of the faculty men did, went out and gave high school commencement addresses. Things like that. And then he would, we didn't have the State 00:34:00Board of Higher Education then, but until 1932.

JL: What makes you say that he was the first man under the President? What indicated that?

EB: Well I think the President leaned on him more that on anybody else. He was rated right up with the Dean of a School.

JL: What makes you say that? What did you observe?

EB: Well later, they later, when he moved over there, they called that position Dean of Administration.

JL: What in,

EB: I'm not sure I can say what made me think so, I just know he had a very close connection with the Presidents' office.

JL: Where was the Registrars' office in the 20's when you first started?

EB: Benton Hall. We were on this uh, west side and the Business office was on the east side. Had the whole first floor.

JL: How closely did you know Dr. Kerr then? And Lemon? Your boss?

EB: Well I would, I didn't uh, if I'd meet him on the street, he'd speak, but he wouldn't know who I wa - I knew who he was of course, but he didn't know many of the students I don't think, unless they were students in ah, Oh like Class Presidents and those people you know.

JL: But you weren't a student. You worked in the Registrar's office.

EB: No, but he didn't know. No he wouldn't have any way of knowing me. I think he knew all the administrative people, like Dean of Women, and the Deans of the Schools, and

JL: Wonder why he would turn to the Registrar, that is E.B. Lemon?

EB: Well Dean Lemon made me assistant registrar, after I'd been there several years. Oh, I'll tell you what did that. Dean Lemon was not a promoter of Civil Service. He didn't like it at all. Cause he bas, he based everything on 00:36:00your achievement. And not on what you could do in an examination. You had to achieve for him to get promoted. And when Civil Service came in, you see, uh, you could, if we wanted a new person, 3, 3 uh, they'd send someb - we'd, well I didn't have to do it, but now they do, they uh make a request you know, if they want a stenographer or statistician or whatever, and they'll sent 3 different people, and you interview em. And out of that 3 you're supposed to take one. If you don't I, I don't know how they do it now. Whether, maybe you know better that I do. Maybe they'll send 3 more, but in those days there wasn't any of that. If you wanted a job with the, somebody, you went and interviewed em yourself. And if you didn't get it, why they'd got another person to interview. Not through Civil Service. And he didn't like that. And Civil Service was put in, I don't know what year. Several years before I quit 00:37:00working, so when Civil Service came in, he made me an Assistant Registrar. So I had faculty rating instead of Civil Service. So now you see, I'm academic, not uh, what the others call classified isn't it? Yea. So he have me academic cause he, he wasn't, he didn't like that way of, I don't know why he'd objection was, but uh I know he didn't, didn't go for it when he came in. He was disappointed.

JL: I understand, well I heard some people say that uh, E.B. Lemon was a very, very tough Registrar, very abrupt. Not very friendly.

EB: Ah, he was uh, well you might call him that. Yea he wasn't uh, I'll say he was fair. Uhm, he, he wouldn't hold any prejudices, but because you knew somebody back somewhere, some hotshot, that wouldn't make a bit of difference to him. He took you on your own basis. Your own achievement. What, he, and his opinion of you. And if you had a connection with somebody, that wouldn't make a bit of difference to him, if you couldn't achieve why I mean you know when he interviewed you, he interviewed on his own evaluation of you, I'd say and not because you had a connection somewhere else.

JL: But what, but I understand from what this person told me that when he dealt with the students, he wasn't uh, understanding.

EB: Well I think, I know he had that reputation. But uh, I don't think of him as that way. He would do anything for that student if he thought he really needed it. But because you had a connection somewhere wouldn't make any difference to him. It had to, it, he was fair, almost to the, somebody thought some people thought he was uh, I don't know what the word is, but uh, as I say because you had a connection somewhere wouldn't make a bit of difference with him.

JL: Can you give me an example of how he dealt with a particular student. How he handled that situation?

EB: Well he knew what the, what the requirements were that you had to have, and 00:40:00if if you had them and uh, I don't know how to tell it. I never had any problems with him at all. But uh,

JL: Can you tell me about an incident with a student who came in to see him? And how he dealt with him?

EB: No, we wouldn't know. Nobody in the office would know. Nobody would know that but the student.

JL: He was very private then?

EB: He was private, and as I say he was fair. If you could prove that you was right, why he would, and if he'd been wrong, I'm sure he would tell ya. Or let you know that he'd, had changed his mind. Some additional information he got or something. But uh he was fair I guess almost to the point of going over backwards. But uh, uh I don't, well that's all I can say. That he was -if you had a, a reason, a legitimate reason for something, why he'd go along 00:41:00with it. But it had to be a, couldn't be a phony one. I don't know how you want to put that. Lot of people, lot of people didn't like him, but I think I think that, well I wouldn't say that, That's not true. Lot of people thought he was a little abrupt. He wasn't a, he wasn't a man that talked a lot. If he had things to say, you know, I, I wouldn't call him a good visitor. Now if he'd go in and, if he'd go out these Rotary things and all that, he'd, people he knew you know, and had something to talk about, but he wasn't one to just sit and talk. If he had a reason, why he was fair about it, but I don't know how to describe him. But I know if, if, if you had a, a 00:42:00problem, a legitimate problem and he could help solve it, that he'd do his best to do it.

JL: How did that affect you? In what ways was this

EB: Didn't bother me a bit. I just did my work and, I got a, I never asked for a promotion. If I got one, I was tickled to get it. You didn't get too many in those days cause there weren't changes like there are now, but uh, Well now like first year I worked, they lived down on 10th Street, and there were about 8 of us I think in the office, and come bout a week before Christmas, he had a Christmas party for all of us. And we exchanged, I don't know whether we exchanged gifts or not. I don't think we did. But we had a nice party, and after they moved down here, he, this would corner was filbert trees,

JL: 35th?

EB: No it wasn't, this wasn't 35th then. This was uh, I don't know what it was. Country Club Way. I got to pick my house number, it's 110 Country Club Way cause that sounded better than Philomath Road. That sounded kinda plebeian. Well now this is Southwest Western Boulevard. (Chuckling) And I'm still on 35th Street. Anyway, He' been, they'd moved out here, and they had these, they still had these Christmas party , the staff was bigger then, I suppose there bout a dozen, and he gave all, each of us a wicker basket about that big square, full, bout a yea, full of filberts and apples. We each had a basket, and uh, yea we had a Christmas party at their house every year for several years, The boys were little. And uh, we wouldn't eat, we'd have 00:44:00refreshments, but uh not a, not a big dinner. But uh, that year we all got a basket of filberts. I think there was some apples in em to, I use the basket still out here. I put my tin cans in it. Go down to the basement downstairs.

JL: So he was very understanding with his own employees then?

EB: Oh Yea. Yea. And the first year I worked, he found out I liked to fish, and he and his wife would fish. They hiked a lot. They were I think they were married 12 years fore they had any, the boys came. And they used to hike a lot All out here, and all around Baldy and, and he liked to fish, and he found out I liked to fish, so I started working in July and the next April, 15th of April, I lived with my Aunt down here, I got up 5 o'clock, and he and I went fishing. Way out here in Mary's River, I guess, I couldn't find it 00:45:00now. And then, later in the afternoon, this, the husband of the telephone operator, he was one of the people in town had a car, and he brought his 2 boys and his wife and Mrs. Lemon and the 2 boys and they came out with the picnic supper, and we ate out. She knew, they knew where we'd gone and I don't think we got any fish but probably didn't seem morn 2 or 3 times all day long, we just each went out own way fishing, and they brought out picnic that night. That's the kind of a person he was you know, but he wasn't a, he wasn't a talkative person. But he,

JL: He must have liked you.

EB: He did, well I guess he did. Never told me he did, but uh, and I never could call him E.B. but I'd call him Dean Lemon, long as, lots of people, pretty near everybody called him E.B., but I couldn't. Course I wasn't raised in that day. And now everybody calls everybody by their first name. And I 00:46:00still say Mrs. Lemon. To her. And I called him Dean Lemon. No, but I was gonna say, he was uh, he was rather quiet, but uh, he'd do nice things. But he didn't expect em you know, and lots, several times in the summer we'd all bring our lunch over and eat out on the campus. Maybe she'd bring lunch in for him and bring the boys. And things like that. They had a cabin at the beach, at Newport. Ah, oh for several summers. And uh, soon as school was out here, he'd take uh, he'd take her and the boys over and they'd live over at Newport about 2 months, and he'd go over every Saturday on the train. You had to leave down here at noon, then he'd come back Sunday on the train. And 00:47:00one weekend he had the whole office over there. I suppose there were, I don't know how many of us, 5 or 6, whatever they could sleep. We all went over on the train, for all night. So he, he was social but uh, not the gushy kind. He was very quiet you know, and uh unassuming about things that he'd do for you.

JL: People respected him then?

EB: Yea. And he never did anything, well any special things he did for me, was like advice on my income tax and things like that that I'd ask him you know. Well, he'd done that for anybody that asked him. But uh, he just smart, that's all. He was, he was an accountant you see, a year or 2 before, he'd taught accounting. I think he worked in the State Tax Office for a year or 2 as an accountant. And uh, he went in as Registrar. I remember I was in school, I think probably I have the Barometer upstairs that had his picture in 00:48:00it, I don't know. Must have had something else in it, but it's 1922. I was still a student when he was made Registrar. He'd been teaching accounting. But I, I'd had accounting, but not under him.

JL: What do you remember about H.M. Tennon?

EB: I didn't know him at all. Now he was Registrar when I started.

JL: You never met him then?

EB: No. I went in the Registrars' office once, during my college career. To drop a course. Uh and I didn't have to. They'd discontinued it. That's all they, I got my drop slip, and then didn't have to do it. That's only time I was in the office till I was called in for an interview. I went about my business and had no trouble with the Registrar's Office.

JL: What contact in the 20's did you have with the students?

EB: None except the ones I lived with in the dormitory, and the athletics, and the ones I met in class.

JL: I mean when when you were in the Registrar's Office.

EB: I, well very little, cause I didn't uh, I didn't wait on the window. The only contact I might have I checked the eligibility lists for athletics, and that was all, all done. And its us, somebody who didn't, wasn't eligible, I might have to talk to him, but I'd make out a call slip for em, they'd come in probably the girl at the counter could straighten em out on it, and what they' have to do. So I had no student contact really.

JL: I wanted to ask, I understand that students would come at 2:30 or 3:00 in the morning to get into courses. And wait.

EB: Well I never knew they did. We sure weren't there! (Chuckling). They might of.

JL: You never heard that?

EB: No I never heard of it. They might sit out on a doorstep at one of the buildings, but I don't know. But we wouldn't have known it. We opened at 8:30 and so,

JL: There wasn't a big demand for one course that would cause

EB: Well, I, see we didn't see those lines, till, well they would all, most of the line checking would be done down in what's Mitchell Playhouse. We'd see long lines just like they have now, they weren't that long cause the buildings not that big, but uh, there'd be lines for certain courses. But they didn't bother us because they bothered the faculty person in that department who was signing em up for it. See, we had nothing to do with that. We didn't get em till they were all signed up and fees paid. Then they came back to us. Or if they dropped and added, then they came to our office.

JL: What contact did Lemon have with the Registrar's Office if he spent so much time uh, with Dr. Kerr and

EB: Well he didn't, no he didn't spend a lot of time with Dr. Kerr. He was in the office every day. Majority of the hours, now probably had meetings and, 00:51:00no he was there every day. He might be sent out on, he, he gave some High School Commencement addresses, he'd be out on that and, and just the usual things that faculty would be called out you know for one day, or one night or, They didn't have after uh, State Board, let's see, yea, State Board yea he was still Registrar why he might be called to State Board meetings. Then he went, always went to the Pacific Coast Association registration meetings in uh, in November. They met here once, and they took, they'd meet once in the University of Seattle, which'd be north and once either here or at the University of Oregon. Then the next year down south somewhere. They alternated. Called Pacific Coast Conference. It took in all the, so they alternated on where they'd meet, so more people could get to the meetings and then he went to 00:52:00National several times.

JL: Did you ever go to these?

EB: Yea I used to go every, oh after I'd, I guess after I'd worked 8 or 10 years, I'd go to em when I

JL: What would they do at these conferences?

EB: Well they'd just talk about their registrars business, and courses and how they could make em better and recruiting, and I didn't do anything. I listened. I went along for the ride mostly. Was a good trip and But I had no participation, in em, but I enjoyed going. I'd usually get a, when they'd go to California I had friends in Los Angeles, I'd spend an extra day or 2 down there with them. But uh, they met here, oh several times I think. I know one time they met here and we took em up to uh, oh Where did they go? For dinner. 00:53:00I don't member. And they met at the University, several times. They're still meeting up and down the coast just like, now Nevada's in it I think. I think they met in Nevada this year, I'm not sure. I suppose one of these days, they'll go to Hawaii, the whole bunch of em. I don't know.

JL: Lemon has been characterized as system minded.

EB: System minded?

JL: How did this characteristic uhm, effect the Registrar's Office?

EB: Well I don't know what system minded would mean. Except that everything we did, we had a, the best system he could figure out for doing it you know. With the best output with the least effort.

JL: He was organized?

EB: He was an organizer, a very good organizer. Everything we did was organized.

JL: How would he show this to his employees, in the Registrars' Office?

EB: Oh every so often we'd have a staff meeting, and course uh, most of us stayed quite a while. All the people were there went I went had been there quite a while, and they had a pretty good routine worked out you know, and it didn't change materially until, oh we had to change a few things as the enrollment grew. But mostly that was taken another person. More workers as we got more work But uh, uh No he, he was an organizer. And he could organize very well. You could get a lot done with least effort if you'd do it systematically.

I'd call, yea he, he had a system for everything. And it worked. He was 00:55:00Treasurer of the Presbyterian Church here the last, oh I don't know how many years. He was Treasurer when I started to work. And course he'd taught accounting, but it got to be a big business here, a million dollar business. He worked real hard on that the last 8 or 10 years of his life. Cause it was, first of each month you'd see a light up there real late, and they talk now about the, I'm on the Trustees Board, and the new Treasurer took the books over, he's, he remarks about that good system he had. Well course he taught accounting and apparently kept up on the newer methods, I don't know. Yea he was, he, he was the worked with a system. There was no fooling around with it. You got a lot done with the least effort. That was his, I would say 00:56:00was his Well that's kinda mine too. If I have something I have to go to the basement to get, I try to think of all the things I'm gonna need down there all day, and get em all at once. (Really laughing) But uh, that might be from working with him, you know. But We didn't do very many things over. We got em done over there, why that was it. But we put in long hours then, for about the first week, and then things would level off and go along with routine.

JL: I understand he started the Educational Exposition. You mentioned that earlier I think.

EB: Yea that was, I don't know when that was started. I started to work in '24. He must have started soon after, because in 1927 we had, the - he always, 00:57:00well that, I think that was a promotion deal. You see that was always in February, round Washington's birthday cause quite often that would be a holiday. A school holiday. And all the departments on the campus would have everything going. The Engineers would have all their machines going, and all the things, and they'd be there running em you know. And uh they'd have big exhibits from everything, all the departments. And uh, students would come and they'd stay at Fraternities and Sororities Houses.

JL: High School students?

EB: Yea High school students. Usually seniors, I suppose. And it was a recruiting thing. Gimmick, but on this night, how I remember it started before 1927, they'd always have a good speaker for a big assembly, And this man, J.R. Jewel, was invited out. He was Dean of Education at 00:58:00University of Arkansas. And at, at the same time uh, he was real good. At the same time he was here, at that time or just before that time I guess, our Dean of Education here, Deal Ressler (?) had passed away. So uh, they offered this job to Dean Jewel, he was Dean of Education, Arkansas. And I remember he uh, told Dean Lemon that he would, he'd go home and check with his secretary and his wife. If they would come, why he would think about it. So he came, in the fall of 1927, and I met his secretary, she'd, I think she's worked for him 20 years I think she said. Well bout a year after that, we lived together then for 30 some years till she passed away. And uh, then 00:59:00he was Dean of Education and they moved him to Eugene when the system went it, and we got Dean Sultzer (?) in his place, but uh, his secretary stayed here with Dean Sultzer. And uh, so that's how I know. The Educational Exposition started at least a year before that. So it might of started soon after I started to work. That was '27 and I started in '24.

JL: Were you involved in the Educational Exposition?

EB: Well we would be involved in uh, not, no not much except checking the High School stu - I guess we had some'n to do with checking the students in and getting em housed or something, I can't remember, really. We set the whole thin up, but Well the, Dean Lemon set it up with all the Deans. The Deans really had the thing to do and they set - they uh set up with all their 01:00:00instructors. The whole campus would be open. Classes just like, well no, no classes, but all the equipment, would be going and then the students like in Home Ec and them that didn't have machinery, they'd all be in their offices and have bulletins and they'd talk, it was a promotion deal you see, getting students to come down Showing what we had to offer.

JL: I guess I'm unclear still as to what the responsibility of the Registrar was when De, when Lemon was Registrar.

EB: Well he, he instigated that. I think he probably more, well I don't know. They's carried a lot of those things on now that are still in the Registrar's Office but they don't have that anymore. Course they didn't have high school visitations then. They started them later. And they've kind a taken the place of that, and then uh, uh, I don't know who started Mother's Weekend. We 01:01:00had that, I think the Dean of Women probably did that. And I don't know when Dad's Weekend started.

JL: So, responsibilities of Registrar when Lemon was Registrar was registration - recruiting students from High School - Hiring faculty members? Is that...?

EB: No, no he didn't hire. He just hired his own, his own office. Recommended.

JL: You mentioned that this uhm, Jewel talked to Lemon

EB: Well he ju - he just invited him and then, while he was here, he probably mentioned it to him, and then I suspect he talked to the President while he was here. He didn't hire him, but uh, he had the contact with him, because he came for that deal, and uh, I suspect he met all the other Deans while he was here. I don't know.

JL: What part did you play in the policy decisions in the Registrar's Office?

EB: None.

JL: None at all?

EB: I followed! As I say, I'm not, I'm a follower. No they were all set up 01:02:00by the administrative council just like they are now. I guess the Administrative council still does something.

JL: Well how long were you a stenographer then? In the Registrar's Office?

EB: Oh probably not more than a year or so. I went into Admissions. And then I got out of tha - uh

JL: Tell me about that.

EB: Well that's just like they do now. Checking high school records and, and uh, if they came in just seeing, getting out and mail it, they were admitted or not. Course that took, I didn't do all of it I don't think. Then I had statistics, course that, I had that several years.

JL: Tell me again.

EB: Well I star - we'd do statistics that night. We'd have to count how many'd registered that day, you see. How many men, how many women, how many in Ag, How many in Business, because that next morning we'd give a report to the President. Just how many'd registered the day before. And it what classes 01:03:00they were and in what Schools. and how many men and how many woman. So I did statistics for several years, then the War came on and we had the NYA - National Youth Administration. And that was students, that was controlled in our office. Students were assigned to departments, they got 35c and hour. I don't know how many students were on it. Once a month we had to type a payroll to send off to Natio - Uh, the most they could earn was uh $20. So they'd work at 35 cents

JL: $20.00 a month?

EB: A month. Well is came out 19.95. Cause it didn't work out, at 35 cents an hour, it wouldn't come out even. But we signed them all over the campus.

JL: The Registrar's Office assigned them?

EB: They uh, yea we had to keep their payroll, they had to be registered and, I 01:04:00don't remember how we did it, but uh

JL: What was this instigated?

EB: During the War.

JL: It wasn't before that time?

EB: No, it was during the uh, Second World War. It was a student aid program. Instigated in Washington. Was National - NYA. National Youth Administration.

JL: I thought that was during the Depression.

EB: Well - I don't know. Now I could be wrong on that. But I know we kept the We assigned them and we kept the payroll on em. They'd turn in a payroll at the end and we'd have to type it and send it in. We used about 6 or 7 of the students in our office, just doing odd jobs. They were capable students. Some of em worked, you see well, practically? every department had student workers then. But that was the rate - 35 cents an hour.

JL: Who made the decision as to where these students would go?

EB: I think we, I can't remember, but I think it was uh, if you needed somebody, you would ask us. And we'd send em.

JL: Did you make that decision?

EB: No I didn't.

JL: Who was the one in your office then?

EB: I don't know.

JL: What relationship in the 20's did and 30's did the Registrar office have to Admissions then?

EB: It was it! Period! All the admissions were in the Registrar's office.

JL: I thought that in '61 when Gibbs came, it was combined, that at one time they were separated.

EB: No, Registrar's office was always had control of who gets admitted. Cause its' based on their academic record. Now uh, graduate students I think they've always had a committee. Now I guess there is, I don't know. I know 01:06:00at the time I worked, the Registrar's office had control of admissions.

JL: I understood that

EB: There is an admissions committee now, and I don't know when that started.

JL: I understood that there, Dallas Norton who is in charge of Admissions.

EB: Oh yea. He was Director of Admissions. Now let's see, when was that? That -you're right. That's when they divided Registrar from - that's when they got too heavy for one office. But it was, it was in our office.

JL: At first it was in your office?

EB: Yea. He was in our office to. Now I don't know, let's see. I don't know when that was. You probably've got that the date when that was. But uh, in a sense, he was under the Registrar.

JL: Do you know approximately when this was then?

EB: No cause I don't know when the, well let's see, I think was after we moved out of Benton Hall over into that building they hauled in from the Navy 01:07:00from out Camp Adair. And the would be round, let's see, when was the War over? 45 or 6, they used, somewhere in that area. Cause I don't think we had him over in the other building.

JL: I understand there was extreme rivalry between the Admissions and the Registrar.

EB: Well I don't know what it was. Wouldn't have known it. I don't know, I can't think where it would, where it would be, why it would be. They admitted people and we registered em, and that was it. I don't think there was any rivalry between uh, Norton and Dr. Orderman. I probably consider themselves about on a level.

JL: Someone mentioned that there was such a rivalry that the common door between 01:08:00the 2 offices was nailed shut.

EB: Oh boy, there wasn't even a door. That's all hooey. I don't know where they got that. That's, that building over there, we had this side, they had their side. All out the front was all counter, and the registrar's down there, and the admissions offer (?) there, and it was all open in - the only door was the back door out in the hall.

JL: So you never witnessed any hard feeling towards Admission.

EB: No I don't know what they might of, No there were, the only door was the door t into the lobby that you would come into or the door at the back door that I'd go out to to go to the restroom or, rest was all one big, there was a vault in between, but there was an alley-way through that and there was no door there. So I don't know who shut the door or where it was. Now there might have been a rivalry, but I wouldn't have known anything about. I never, I, 01:09:00I don't know, never heard anything about the, I never went to the coffee room, so I don't know what they talked about out there, either.

JL: What did you observe was happening in the 20's and early 30's uhm, between U of O and O.A.C.?

EB: Well I never knew of any rivalry between em except the athletic football games And that stuff.

JL: You never heard any talk?

EB: No I wouldn't have, cause I didn't go to any of the higher up meetings. Course there's always been a rivalry on, Well there was, you see for a long time uh, we didn't have Liberal Arts. They got all the Liberal Art students. We didn't have them. We had the technical school. But we, then we put in what they called lower division. You could take first 2 years, which I, I think now 01:10:00was where most of your Liberal Courses, but we didn't have a degree in it. That was over there, and then when this uh, when they moved Dean Jewel over there, 1930, I guess it was 1933 when the State system went in. Then they were not to have degrees in I think Home Ec was one of em, but wasn't long till they got it. And we weren't to have, was long time after that see that we got Liberal Arts. With a degree and all that.

JL: Well you, you didn't observe

EB: But I didn't know anything about what was going on.

JL: From Lemon at all then?

EB: No. Or he knew all about it, but was, I just worked there. Was none of my business. I wasn't on any of the, course he was on all the big committees.

JL: So, you have no observations that of the unification (?).

EB: No he didn't talk about anything outside the office. All, all I knew is what I'd read in the paper, and I didn't read that much, cause it didn't mean 01:11:00too much to me.

JL: What was your feeling towards the whole situation then?

EB: Well I don't know. I guess, I, I just, now up in the higher class of instructors and all that, I don't know. I didn't, I didn't uh, observe a thing. Didn't mean a thing to me.

JL: How was the college affected by the economics slump in the late 20's?

EB: Well as I say, we uh didn't get a raise, but, for a few years but didn't get any cuts. Lot of students were, that's when this NYA came in, during the Depression you see when the students

JL: Oh it did come in during the Depression?

EB: I think so. That would be right after the War I guess.

JL: I understand Lemon was involved with that, N.Y.A.

EB: Well yea. It was headed in our office I think. Cause we did all, we did all the payroll and everything. That's just one of the side issues that they probably put in the Registrar's office.

JL: I was going to ask, if you, can you recount any experiences where there was a kink in the Registration process or something interesting that happened, that was unusual.

EB: No except the long lines, and they didn't get any shorter. But they kept trying all the time you know to make it uh, faster. But uh no I, I don't. The thing they uh, uh that helped a lot was after we got big enough to do it all in the Coliseum. I was still working when they did that. Otherwise the 01:13:00students you see had to run all over the campus. We had no central place that like they do now to do all the checking. Till the, when they moved down there.

JL: Were you aware of um, the situation in the administration of the institution that Eugene and here, were you aware of any bitterness?

EB: No I wasn't, I wouldn't have, we wouldn't have heard that in the office, cause I, you have to, I think where you hear most of that would be socializing somewhere probably (chuckling) visiting, but uh, No I wasn't that high up in the Dean Lemon, he would never mention any of that in the office you know. None of our business and that's

JL: Do you remember, what do you remember of the 2 years that there was no President on this campus? In 32 - 34.

EB: Well we had a President.

JL: After Kerr was appointed Chancellor and before Peavy came?

EB: Let's see.

JL: That was in the early 30's.

EB: I don't know who, I thought there was some, a acting President at least, all the time. I don't know who it was. Roy Young was President one year, and uh Dr.

JL: Roy Young?

EB: Uh huh. Well he went, now he's back east somewhere. If he isn't retired. He was acting President one year. Uh I don't know when Strand came.

JL: That name doesn't sound familiar.

EB: Dr. Strand?

JL: No. Roy Young.

EB: Well he might have been in between, he was only a year I think.

JL: Well in the time after Kerr left, you don't remember that?

EB: No I don't. Oh that's my. . . (Knocking on the door)

JL: During the early 30's uhm, what do you remember about the Lemons' part then in this whole situation of the unification program?

EB: Well I don't know how much he had to do with it. But I'm sure he went to all the, see he was on the administrative council all the time, and they, that, which was made up of ah all the Deans you know, and the Business manager, and the Registrar. I don't know, I really don't know what they had to do with all that.

JL: You don't remember him being absent from the office a lot during that time?

EB: No, not anything that you know. . . If he'd be in and out, we wouldn't know it you know, because we could go a day or 2 without him. If nobody, somebody came in and wanted something, he wasn't there, they just had to come back. It didn't disrupt the office. He might have been gone all night to a meeting or something, we wouldn't have known the difference. Except we'd know 01:16:00where he was.

JL: What, do you remember what you, you're reaction was when the School of Commerce was moved to Eugene?

EB: Well we didn't like it, I guess (Laughing) I mean it didn't affect me personally, but uh the whole campus course I suppose was upset about it. And they left Secretarial Science here you see. That was a Department then. And uh, and now it's the School of Business I guess and all together again, so...Business Administration.

JL: How did the Depression affect your, your job in the Registrar, not your job particularly, but the Registrar's office?

EB: I don't, I didn't see any difference at all.

JL: No difference in students?

EB: Uh hum. No we mi - well we wouldn't get their reaction I mean I wouldn't. 01:17:00Now they might a come in to see Dean Lemon. Bout something or other, he had his own office, but we wouldn't get any uh, any ration. Course enrollment went way down. And they during the War, were very few boys. And uh, but then when the war was over, we were still over in the Administration building and Benton Hall and BOY after the next fall after that was over, they were lined up clear up to the third floor there waiting to get into our office for admission. We were still over in that building. That was after you see.

JL: Before we get there, I understand uhm that the staff on campus took a voluntary salary cut, in the 30's?

EB: I expect they did. I can't, don't remember.

JL: You don't remember voting on that? Or discussing it, or

EB: No. I don't think staff was a, I don't think staff voted then. I think 01:18:00they just took it cause the administration council probably decided that, I don't know. But I don't ever remember voting on any issue effecting the Institution. Except when I was in school and voted on Student body Officers, and that kind of stuff. I don't remember the staff ever having, Now the Administrative Council and maybe some of their committees had votes, but not any of the general run of the campus.

JL: Can you make a comparison to the students before the Depression and after the Depression? For example, well can you?

EB: No. I can make a, I think the students now are more outgoing.

JL: Well out, no, during, were the students, their situation, their scholarly grades, different from before the Depression to during the Depression?

EB: I don't think so. I think the only thing the Depression effected probably was the size of the enrollment. I don't know. I don't know of any way I'd have any reason to see, seeing a reaction.

JL: I understand you were on a Student Loan committee?

EB: Yea.

JL: What did that, what did

EB: Well we met once a week and we'd have applications and they'd make a budget and we knew how much money was in the loan fund, and we would approve em or disapprove em.

JL: You were directly involved in that?

EB: Yea I had a vote on that committee, you see there was about 6 or 8 of us. I wasn't Chairman of it or anything, but we all had a vote, and uh we'd approve it or disapprove it.

JL: What criteria did you use?

EB: Well they'd make a budget and uh, I know one thing that a, one of our committee members, he's a real nice guy and he's still on campus. He's a staunch Baptist. And course the tithe. And some students would put tithing in their budget. And uh we couldn't see that that was absolutely necessary to go on to college. And always bothered him, cause usually we didn't approve that amount for tithing. And it bothered him.

JL: Who was the man?

EB: Oh I would rather not say. He's still on campus. And I don't know how they do it now, but he's a real nice guy. But uh, they'd make a budget and it would include their tuition, and they they'd estimate their living, and Seniors would uh quite often put in an amount for moving, or they'd put in an amount for maybe an engineer would put in an amount for a trip for an interview. Maybe 01:21:00way back East. Well we'd approve it cause usually he got it back from the company you see. If he got his job then why he'd pay it back. But uh Oh yea, we'd have 8-10 dozen applications a week. I was on that 2-3 years.

JL: When was that? When were you on it?

EB: Oh - not too long before I retired. I don't know what year. I retired in *65, I suppose in the late 50's - early 60's.

JL: Oh, this was much later?

EB: Yea. But it was uh, it was after the, well it was, it would naturally be after the Depression, I'd think.

JL: That's what I was wondering. If that had any kind of loans in - applications for loans

EB: I expect we had em then to. During the Depression because, but it, it was 01:22:00strictly for, we approved em mostly strictly for academic reasons, you know. Tuition and books and living. And uh, as I say it always bothered that one member that we, we didn't think tithing was absolutely necessary. But uh, he had, I think he had 5 or 6 youngsters, I guess he tithed, probably still does. He's a real nice guy. but, Yea I was on that, guess 2-3 years.

JL: How did things in the Registrar change when George Peavy became President in 1934?

EB: We didn't change anything in the Registrars office.

JL: Didn't affect you one way or the other?

EB: No except I knew, I could speak to him, and visit, (Chuckling) I knew him.

JL: How did you know George Peavy?

EB: OH I don't know. Everybody knew him. Ah - I don't know how I knew him. 01:23:00No special way, but some, some people are just more outgoing and if you ever met him on the street, he'd speak you know and, I been out to Peavy Arboretum I think, but not when he was there I don't think. I used to hike uh, this friend and I that used to live together, we used to ride the Red Electric out there and get off at, right near, and hike up in the Peavy - I know one way I knew him. I knew his secretary and we had gone up to their cabin, a group of us one time, for a picnic, and I guess we met him that way, but he was a

JL: What mountain (?)Cabin (?)

EB: Oh out on top of - out the Arboretum. They had one up there, and still have one on top of the, the original, I don't know whether the students or somebody built it for him or not. But it burned and then they rebuilt it, and I, every once in a while I see in the paper a wedding or somebody's been married 01:24:00up there.

JL: Did you go to the original cabin?

EB: I think so. Uh hum. I don't remember what it looked like, but this, this friend, or this secretary of his had a group of us out there one time for a picnic. I remember, apparently I had a car then cause I know we went. Just a big long cabin. Right, way up on top of the hill.

JL: What was her name?

EB: Oh she's been dead for years. What was her name? I don't know, can't remember. Now I'll probably think of it before I go to bed or when I wake up in the morning, but I can't think of it now.

JL: What - finish your story about getting off the Red Electric and then....

EB: Oh well, we'd get off, it would stop out there. It would be somewhere where, near where Camp Adair is now. And then there was a trail. We'd hike clear up on top of, of uh the Arboretum and pick lady-slippers. Wild 01:25:00lady-slippers. Little flower about so bit, real fragrant. Little lavender. They're about gone now cause so many people and they picked up and pulled the bulb up. But I've come in, we'd take our lunch with us, this friend that I lived with and I and uh, we'd pick, we'd come in with a half of a knapsack full of those wild orchids. Gee they were beautiful.

JL: Was that common, for people to hike up in there?

EB: No. No. No I don't think so. Not many people wanted to walk that far I guess. (LAUGHING)

JL: But the Red Electric stopped

EB: It uh, ran from here to Portland, that's why I been so uh, worked up over the Depot down here, because when I was in college, why that was the headquarters for all the football games in Portland, and the whole, whole town would gather down there and ride the Red Electric train to Portland for the football game. They'd have a club car on it, and the band would play. That's 01:26:00the way you got to football games. Then hardly anybody had cars you know. That was in the 20's. I don't know when that quit running, but uh, I wish they'd find some way to use that. Constructive. I hate to see that torn up and a parking lot put in there. I think parking lots can be a little farther away from the middle to town myself, but anyway that's off the record.

JL: Tell me, tell me about the football games, going up and seeing the football games.

EB: Well if we were playing in Portland, why uh, you'd ride the Red Electric and it would take ya, I don't know where we got off in Portland, but apparently near enough that you could walk up, and then it would come back that night. And practically the whole town would go.

JL: Including the campus?

EB: Yea. I suppose our student body ticket let us in, I don't know. Cause we didn't have much money. But that's the way we got to the football 01:27:00games in Portland was on that Red Electric train.

JL: And you'd all - was there some kind of an organization that uh

EB: Well I suppose Student Body set it up. I don't know. I don't know. I just know it went and I rode on it.

JL: What kind of festivities?

EB: What kind of what?

JL: Festivities were part of this experience.

EB: Well. Oh I don't know. You'd just, rode it and the rally people would be on it and, and uh singing and as I remember they had sandwiches. I think. Then we'd come back at night after the game. That afternoon, but uh that was the way you got up there. As I say hardly anybody had a car you see. That was in the 20's. Early 20's. I can't think of anything special about it but I know the band would go and it - would play and the rally squad. 01:28:00I don't, I suppose the rally squad set it up, I don't know.

JL: They'd play on the train?

EB: Yea. They'd play going up.

JL: Well going back to George Peavy. What kind, what made his so approachable? Comparing say to Dr. Kerr.

EB: I don't know. He'd, he'd just - God just made him that way. He was just that kind of a person. He, He was an outdoors man and, and uh I didn't know him off the campus at all. Never was any social things that he was, but he well he, he could just talk to anybody. He was small man, and he certainly knew forestry. But uh, and he was a good President I guess. I don't remember 01:29:00anything special happening when he was there. But he must a been or they wouldn't a kept him. He had a, I don't know whether he had more one, he had one son that I remember and I didn't know him, but He was a real outdoors man. He wasn't if you'd meet him out in the street, you'd never dream he was a Dean of something you know. You'd just think he was a good old forester. He was small man and very uh, knowledgeable and very approachable you know. Easy to visit, easy to talk to. Wasn't reserved.

JL: What, what do you know about Lemon's relationship with Peavy?

EB: Oh it was good.

JL: How do you know that?

EB: Well I (chuckling) Oh he uh, Well as I say I shouldn't say that probably, but I think Lemon's relationship was good with everybody on the campus, except the few thought he was a little too reserved or something, but he never had any, I don't think he a real enemy. He had some people probably that thought that he was a little too doctorial, but uh, he went through all the highest order of Rotary, and all that so, and he'd been on the Foundation and on the Alumni, all those, everything that ever had anything to do with the progress of Oregon State, he'd been on it. So somebody must a thought he was OK. He had good ideas and he was uh, maybe a little bit on the reserved side. I 01:31:00mean before he'd approve something, at least I think, well he'd want to know, you know, what the aftershock might be or anything. He didn't go into anything till he'd researched it thoroughly and... But apparently the whole, the whole city

JL: Dr. Peavey left in 1940 or retired in 1940?

EB: Did he? I don't know. Who took his place?

JL: Well uhm, Bower.

EB: Oh yea. I didn't know him at all. I think he was kinda reserved. He'd been quite active in agriculture, I think, extension work.

JL: You didn't know him at all?

EB: I didn't know him. He wouldn't know me if he, No I don't know if I ever met him or not.

JL: What about Gilfillan? Did you know him?

EB: I know him. He's still alive. But he

JL: How do you know him?

EB: Well, his wife, before they were married, his wife worked in the Business office, which was right across the hall from us, and uh, I don't know, I just He was down in Pharmacy. He was a pharmacist instructor. I don't know how I knew him. No special way, but

JL: What effect did he have on the Registrar's office?

EB: Nothing special.

JL: During this time from about 1924 to 1940 How had the Registrar's office changed?

EB: Very little! Let's see, Dean Lemon went over to the President's office 01:33:00in 46 and it hasn't changed much since. He had, apparently had a set-up that worked, and nobody's done much with it, except what's been changed by academic rules and things. I guess I knew Gilfillan through his wife, cause she worked in the Business office, cross the, before they were married. Cross the hall from me and I knew, I didn't know her well, but

JL: What was your relationship in the Registrar's office - relationship to the business office?

EB: Nothing special. We just ah, they took the money. See if they, Oh

EB: Oh our relationship was mostly just meeting each other in the hall. See in those days, first days I worked, up till, there was no coffee breaks. In 01:34:00those days till the war came in and brought the agricultural adjustment agency crew into the MU. They had offices over in the MU. And they were Federal and I don't know what they did. You'll have to look that up. Anyway it was called triple-A. And they were Federal and they had, they had had coffee breaks. So - every day we'd see walking across the Quad from Mu to, down to Monroe Street, was the closest place they could get coffee. And soon after they were here, then the whole campus started coffee breaks. But our office never went out for em. Dean Lemon didn't believe in em.

JL: You had no breaks during the day then?

EB: Well we could, we went out to the rest room and all that, but we didn't go 01:35:00jaunting off for a cup of coffee. No. Nobody did, never even thought of it, till that Federal, that was about, what, bout 46 - 45 or 6.

JL: That was after Dean Lemon left?

EB: Yea he was over in the President's office then.

JL: How long a lunch break did you have?

EB: Hour.

JL: How would he discipline you? How, how

EB: Nobody had it. The campus didn't. That must have been Dr. Kerr's - I don't know. We just didn't grow up with that idea. That came, that coffee break Whole deal came in with the War. After the war.

JL: That's interesting!

EB: We'd see these people walking down. Well then, finally the, the uh, our office or the Business office didn't have - finally I think the Business office started it. But, and then uh But I don't think our office had it until we 01:36:00moved, till he went over to the President's office and we moved one in the other building. And then they just went out the back. They had a coffee room out in the back of the building. And they took turns, different offices took turns each week, making the coffee that morning, for the day. And then they'd go out. I might go out and eat an apple but I didn't, I don't want any coffee unless I got a piece of pie for it, and you can't do that very often. (Chuckling)

JL: Do you think it's abused? The coffee break is abused?

EB: No I didn't use it. I went out to, went out to the restroom or I might go out and eat

JL: Did other people abuse the coffee break?

EB: Yea. I do. A lot of em do. It was 15 minutes and I'm sure there's some of em at least half an hour. But uh, that's their business. I don't 01:37:00control- I don't think the Registrar's office - I think they control it very well. Course they've got it right there in their own, in their own quarters. Some of em, There's 2 or 3 of em who smoke. They go down to the coffee room in the bottom of the building down there. They have a coffee room in the basement of the Administration building. And uh 2-3 of the girls that smoke go down there, but the rest of them have their own room right out there in the building.

JL: What do you remember about the events surrounding the appointment of Lemon as Dean of Administration?

EB: Nothing special.

JL: There was no celebration?

EB: No. No I don't think so. They had a real nice dinner for him when he retired, but I don't remember that uh, anything special when they moved him over to the President's office.

JL: How did things change in your office after he left?

EB: Nothing. We had, we got another man, a Registrar. Uhm Dr. Orderman. 01:38:00Took him out of the English department, and he had, he was entirely different.

JL: Tell me the difference.

EB: Well he, he was nice. He was fair, and all that. But he had no sense of humor. He was a, a and he didn't meet students as well.

JL: What do you mean?

EB: Well he would be more abrupt with em. I don't know how, don't know how to say it but uh, I know one - I have a habit, I'd ask a question and I'd start to answer it. One time he told me, he said "Now you let me answer.'1 And he'd be that way to students. I know one woman who worked at the counter. If she, if she, she had some student had a problem that she couldn't ah work out, that she, he, she'd have to take him into to see, she'd tell him now, "Ask your 01:39:00question and then don't say anything."

EB: But uh you know, he would just, he was uh, he was from the East. I think, I don't know whether he was a Harvard man or not, but anyway, he uh, I would say he had no sense of humor. He was very sedate. And uh, Oh what's the word I want - Well I always think of people from Boston being that way. Very proper and all that. But I don't think he had any sense of humor. But he was, he did a good job. He's there 18 years. Then he had a stroke. But uh,

JL: How did he change the policies and

EB: He didn't change any of em. They you know they're, in that office the only policies you could change would be the, the uh, uh atmosphere of your 01:40:00workers, because the work is so cut and dried. There's just about one way to do it. Make it come out right.

JL: Were you still doing statistics when Orderman was Registrar then?

EB: Uh hum, I did statistics till, Well I had help on em, but uh we did statistics in the office till they put in the computers. Somebody did em.

JL: Do you, after the Registration, what kept you occupied during the day then?

EB: Well by that time I was checking Graduation requirements. And they last all year. Now they're 2 people on em. And they, that's all they do all year long -is check and see they filed application in the fall when they register. Takes em all year to check them.

JL: So that's what you did?

EB: Yea. I went into that, that just about full time. That's all they did. There isn't any that you can put on a computer. And I still go back and uh, 01:41:00about 3 weeks before commencement, and make commencement statistics. They make reports on uh, Oh the number of degrees, the number of students from each county, country and foreign country, the number of men and women, in each school, the average age, all that. Well that's all tallying - hand tallying. Because you put it in a comput - because ah it's taken from their application as they file it. Which they did beginning of this term. Well by next June, course if they don't come back the other 2 terms, or finish, why that's something different, but by Spring term, uh And when grades come in, 01:42:00I've filed my application and been tallied into Benton county, and I've been tallied into a certain age group, and I've been tallied as a woman, well then when my grades come in, and I don't make it, they've got to get me out of there. Right now before commencement, which is about 3 days off. Well if I was in a computer in that deal, it'd take em months to get me out. So - I do all that tallying by hand and then when grades come in, and the figures have to be adjusted, it's just a matter of erasing and deducting, you see, cause Dr. McVickar gives the total figures at commencement. And the grades come in on about Tuesday, and between then and Sunday, you've taken out maybe, now days it'd be about 30 or 40. Used to be 1 or 2. Maybe none. So that, that's statistical stuff. I don't know if they'll ever figure out a way to put it on a computer, cause it takes too long to get it out. In fact I could 01:43:00file my application the week before commencement, which would be all wrong but they'd take it, with a lot of argument, and they'd get me all set up, and then I didn't make it, and there I be - all loused up in the computer, so those statistics are, are hand tallied every year.

JL: My gosh, that's a lot of work.

EB: It is a lot of work. But uh, and then they average age, and the oldest age and the youngest one. All that stuff, so that's one thing the computer can't do, until they figure out a way to take it out the next day after they put it in.

JL: Why was Orderman chosen as Registrar?

EB: Why was he what? Oh, I don't know why. I think Dean Lemon recommended him. He knew him, he'd been teaching English there for a long, maybe applied for it I never did know. All I knew was he was considered.

JL: I understand that Lemon retained the position of Registrar a short time after he became Dean?

EB: Well I don't know why. Maybe it was just till the appointment went through or something.

JL: You don't know anything about that?

EB: No. Soon as Orderman came over to work, far as we were concerned, he was the Registrar.

JL: Can you make a comparison between the office when Lemon ran it and the office when Orderman ran it?

EB: Well not really because all the help stayed, that part of it, the ones that really do the work were all the same. (Chuckling) Of the, uh Dr. Orderman was on lot of committees, that he took over from uh, because he was on the position. I don't think ah, I don't - the office didn't change any unless I'd say it might a been a little more uh, Well no - Dean Lemon was a pretty uh, 01:45:00if you didn't know him, you would think he was somber maybe too. The office was always uh, Well I would say organized and rather uh, I don't know what the word is. Not sedate but, you're, it was always business-like. It was never a lot of fooling around, you know. You were busy. Course you had enough to do to keep you busy. Only time you weren't at your desk working, was when you went out for your coffee break.

JL: How many people worked under Orderman? Guess this would be in the 40's.

EB: Oh boy let's see! Well there was 1, 2, 3, Well there must a been about 15 or 16 in the Registrar side - and about 10 or 12 in Admissions.

JL: They were separate at that time?

EB: Well they were divided yea, they were separate like they are now. See Mr. Gibbs is Registrar. He's over the whole outfit really, but under him is uh, Director of Admissions. And that was the way it was. So I would say 15 -I don't know. Seemed like a lot of us.

JL: He didn't instigate any new methods, processing of material or

EB: No only time they did that's after they got their 1MB, their computer's in. Ah, what you do in a Registrars office. Well the policies change course, but what you do is the same thing over - you just count people and keep track of their credits and, and don't change much unless they change uh, well the only thing sometimes they change graduation requirements, but that's just a matter of 01:47:00changing your, checking your records. So procedures, just aren't changeable very much.

JL: Tell me again about the National Youth Administration and your, your responsibilities.

EB: Well all I know about it, was a government program set up for needy students. And uh, the college got so much money, I don't know how much they were assigned. An allotment and they had to pick the students, where to work and I don't know how many was on it, but there was a big group of em.

JL: Well during the War then this was mostly women?

EB: Yea they would be mostly women. Well there were boys on it to. See there were a lot of students too young to go to war. I guess. Cause I know the Business office, they had 4 or 5 and I think there's were all boys over there. So ah, and I guess they had a committee to pick em. I don't know. 01:48:00I know we had 3 or 4 working in our office. And we had to send in the payrolls each month.

JL: After the War, what, what problems or new situations happened in the Registrar's office, you mentioned an increased enrollment.

EB: Well I guess the most was that when we had to take on some extra help, and that that, first line-up, that first week of school, when they came back - they were sitting on the steps clear up the 3rd floor of the Administration building. And I guess the biggest problem was just, just the volume was. Nothing changed Had to do the same things, only just do it for more people.

JL: My gosh they had to add more people.

EB: Yea we had to add extra people. I think there were 8 in the office when I 01:49:00started. And when I uh retired, on the Registrars side there must a been, well there were 4 at the counter, and a stenographer, that's 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, Well must a been 14 or 15 when I retired. And when I started, I think there was 8. If I remember.

JL: Tell me about the Registrars move. From Benton Hall.

EB: Well, wasn't much uh, I know we were thrilled to get over that new building, cause we had a lot of room. But uh, the truck just came and got everything I guess. It had all the files to move, and they had built a vault over there 01:50:00we moved all those little drawers from that. I don't actually remember. I think I, I think I remember being over at the new place when they brought stuff in. Several of us. So they would set it where we hoped it would stay. And I can't remember whether we moved, we must a moved on a weekend. I can't remember, but I don't see how we'd do it through the day. Kids coming in. And I haven't the least idea. See who's around? I don't know anybody that's around that helped us move.

JL: You were on the Archives Committee I understand.

EB: Oh yea. What did I do on that? That wasn't very, that wasn't a very active committee. I, I don't remember doing anything special, but just being 01:51:00on it.

JL: Who was on, who else was on it?

EB: I can't remember. I'd even forgotten there was such a committee. Who was chairman of that? This new Archivist they've got, I guess he's doing real things. I don't know. Let's see - uhm - Well I know who was head of it. Can't think of her name. She's still around town. Harriet Moore.

JL: When were you on the committee?

EB: I don't remember that! Sometime when we was over in the, see I retired just about 2-3 years before they moved into the new building, so it was while we was over in that, was before I retired, but I don't remember that we did very much.

JL: Why did you, why did you, why were you on that committee?

EB: I don't know. Cause they appointed me I guess. (Laughing) I REALLY don't know. We didn't have any decisions to make or anything. And I don't 01:52:00remember doing a thing for it. I remember going to meetings, but I don't remember that we did anything.

JL: Why did Orderman quit as Registrar? Do you know?

EB: He had a stroke. And uh, he was out a while and then he, he uh, came back had a cane - Well then he got retirement age I guess. But he had some kind of a, well what is it you have - he went down to this doctor in Texas. What is that ah, trouble that hits ya? That Dr. did surgery. Figured out new surgery for it. OH, I can't remember. Then he was, had a cane for several years before he passed away.

JL: So then Russell Gibbs came? In - how did things change under him?

EB: Oh, Well procedures uh, Wallace Gibbs yea - Russell Dicks, I always say Bud Gibbs. I member him as a football player. He got to play during the War. Even tho he was a Freshman cause they were short. He wasn't old enough to be in the War and he played on the Varsity as a Freshman. And caught the football - caught the pass that year that beat the University of Oregon. As a Freshman, and that was a big deal. He's got the "0" for that, off of his sweater, mounted in his office. He was a real good football player. Ah -I don't remember what year he come over there. Well nothing changed much as I say the procedure, you see just don't change. You just keep records and graduate em, and there's no new way to do it. Except what they put on the 01:54:00computer. But he's the, he came from uh, P.E. I guess. He had coached football over in Albany. Then he was over here on the, was he on the P.E. staff here? Or did he come direct from Albany? I don't know. I don't know which. But he's, he's the, he's a lot like Dean Lemon was. He's very well organized, he knows exactly what he's doing all the time. And his desk is always neat. But he's the, he's as near like uh, Dean Lemon as I could describe him. He's a little more outgoing I think. But he's a real nice guy, and he's real orderly and he's, I think he's real well liked. Seels to be.

JL: As you look back on those years as, working in the Registrar's office, what did you enjoy most about your job there?

EB: Oh gosh I don't know. I liked all of it because it was so varied I guess.

JL: How was it

EB: It never got - Well I'd be checking registration, commencement and admissions commencement one time, and admissions one time. And I did all the requisitions payed all the bills, wrote all the requisitions. Kept the books on that. Budget. I don't know, it's so varied that I don't know what part I like best. Guess that's why I liked it, cause it was never too monotonous. There never was one day that I had to do the same thing all day long. I'd finally get it finished and got to do something else.

JL: I understand that you passed out the diplomas at commencement?

EB: No I didn't pass em out. We uh, see when I first started work, we had about 300 graduate. And was in the men's gym. And we had em all tied- we knew who was 01:56:00gonna be there. You couldn't get excused then. You had to be at Commencement. Well you could petition, but you had to have a pretty good excuse. And the Pharmacy Dean wouldn't ever sign a, an excuse for any Pharmacy student to be absent from Commencement. Until the War came on, and he had 1 or 2 boys that were overseas somewhere, and couldn't get here, so he had to approve them. But you had to be there to get your Pharmacy- Dean Zeefly (sp?). But uhm, we'd ha- we knew the procedure was the same as now. The, only now they do it a little different. They send out a card, 2 cards to em. One you send back if you're gonna be there, and one you send back if you're gonna be absent. Those days you had to be there less you petitioned to be absent. And you had to have pretty good excuse. And they'd file a petition in our office and then we'd take them 01:57:00out, but we'd stack the others by schools. Alphabetical. And they'd only be about 300 of em. They would all set on that table up, pretty good sized pile. But anyway, they all went under the podium up on the platform, on the Men's gym. But we'd, we'd have em all stacked according to who was gonna be there. And then uh, we would a, they had it in the Men's gym and the procession would form over by Commerce Building. The flag, flag was the head then the Dr. Kerr and the Administrative Council behind. And when uh, they had the, Well just like they do, it's almost same as now, only this is bigger. They had each marshal has a complete list of whose gonna march in his group. You see, each school marshal, most of the schools I think have 2 marshals, so they divide their list. They 01:58:00know exac- and they form out there on the Quad, and they call the roll off that list. Well if I'm not there, they cross me off, when they come to the Coliseum, they hand that list to our girls. We got 2 girls out there. And if I wasn't there, I'm crossed off. But my diploma's already down there, so that's what we do while the President's welcoming everybody. We adjust, take me out if I didn't show up. But in those days, which, I'd stand out there and they'd had me these lists. And I had, when I'd see the flag coming way over by uh, what's now Secretar- I guess still Commerce Building, when I'd see the flag coming through there, I had time to run from three into the Men's Gym and take out one or 2, whoever didn't show up. But now it takes 4 of em, to take em out after they get in down there at the Coliseum. Girls stand out there and they come back with the 01:59:00list, we know who didn't show up in the Procession.

JL: So you always participated in the Commencement?

EB: Uh hum. So I've been doing that ever - even since I retired, I go down - help take em out. Count. But we'd pull out a bunch of em now. Maybe 25 or

JL: Has there ever been a slipup with any of these.

EB: Oh once in a while. Usually uhm, as I say, usually we come out right - always stand there and watch the Deans hand em out. I get where I can see, and if she hands out the last one, why we know we came out alright. Or if they have to, Mr. Gibbs has some blank one up there. If they're short one, they can tell when they're coming you know. Hand a blank. We can see em do that. But this, this time we came out uh, I think we came out right this time. Last year I think we were one short. And they found out later it was a girl in Home Ec who didn't make it, at the last minute. And uh, course we 02:00:00took her diploma out. Didn't even take it down there. And she had her cap and gown because they get them before grades are in, if they want to, so she just put it on and went down and stuck herself on to the end of the line. So she come to the end of the line, she got a blank case. And come to find out, she hadn't even made it, she wasn't even supposed to be there. Nobody knew it you see.

JL: Oh my. (Laughing)

EB: That the first time I think that's ever happened. You know it was interesting this year that we had uh, 4 disabled. One girl was deaf, and she was uh, I think she was in Liberal Arts, but she lead the whole procession. She was the very first one across. And right in front of the band, was a young woman from Eugene who had been, who had been teaching her all year. I 02:01:00don't know how long. Young woman, been teaching her hand, whatever they call it, and she sat there and interpreted that whole program for that girl. And they gave her a diploma in braille. That's a nice note to put in for writing up Commencement. I bet not many institutions, nobody that we know of anymore even gives em their own diplomas. They get blanks, and she got a braille.

JL: What other events in either Registration or Commencement do you remember? You're kind of in a special place, you see people admitted into the college, and then graduate from the institution.

EB: Well, I don't know. See uh, Commencement this year was a little bit of a disappointment to me. Ah I've always, it's always been a dignified, you know. 02:02:00And this year the kids, of they threw their hats in the air, and one fella all the Pharmacy students had put tops of their caps with the Rx thing on em, white, see the caps were black. They'd put a square, a white square on with that Rx on it. And then one girl had a big gold ball thing bout that big, on top of her cap and another one on top of that, a little smaller. Sat up that high, a fella had a little stubby beer bottle and a glass on top of his cap. I thought I've, I thought if I'd a been a marshal, it wouldn't have gotten in the building with that stuff on. But, and they yelled when they got, that's alright when they wave, and one boy practically turned a somersault, when he got his diploma. I thought it was a very undignified, far as I was concerned.

JL: Why do you think that's, that's happening?

EB: I don't know. Well, I don't know. Now in, in the day that I worked and I think up till not too many years ago, Those things had been caught on the Quad, and that beer bottle would a been taken off of that cap before he went down there, but he, I suppose you do it now, you'd create a scene. Cause anybody that's that stupid to put it on there, oughtn't not about to take it off. (Laughing) Hope nobody's listening. Well it just kinda disappointed me, cause it's always been so sedate and it doesn't' have to be, I mean a lot of em wave to their parents up in the gallery you know, they've spotted them and they wave or yell, one boy let out a big yell, but to have that stuff on their hat. But I didn't know till afterwards, this girl got her diploma in braille. And there was a wheel-chair, he was escorted across.

JL: As you look back, what events in the Registrar's office are most significant to you then?

EB: Oh I, I guess one of the high points of the whole year was when everybody got his own diploma. (Laughing). But uh, I don't know. It could uh, well nothing very exciting ever happened.

JL: The computer system probably changed

EB: Oh it changed everything, yea. I told em I was glad I retired before they got fore computers were born, cause I'd a had a terrible time. Well course there's an awful lot of hand work still done down there. The admission people are the ones that use the computer. They uh, they, when they admit a person now, they put everything on a computer card that goes up to get their material all made. The Registrar side doesn't use it. Well it's the schedule girl 02:05:00does. To schedule I think, but they don't have, they still have desk work. And uh, counter work and all that. And as I say all these statistics have to be hand tallied.

JL: And you still help on that?

EB: Yea. I have. I think one more time's gonna be it.