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James K. Weatherford Oral History Interview, July 6, 1991

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MB: It is July 6, 1991 and I'm speaking to James K. Weatherford in his office, in his attorney's office in Albany, Oregon. For purposes of the person transcribing this, I have known Mr. Weatherford for many years, and I will refer to him as Jim. My name is Mary Jacquelyn Jenks Burck. And with us in the office is Charlotte Weatherford Allen, who is the daughter of Mr. Weatherford.

MB: O.K, let's start.

JW: O.K.

MB: And, let's first start with the names of your grandfather and grandmother Weatherford.

1:00

JW: My grandfather was James Knox Polk Weatherford.

MB: Uh huh.

JW: Apparently his name was derived from the name of the President Polk.

MB: Oh ho.

JW: His father apparently was inclined to name the family members after former presidents. And my grandmother was Mary Annette Cottle, C-O-T-T-L-E. They were married in San Jose, California. Do you want me to get the date? They were 2:00married at San Jose, California on February 10, 1877.

MB: My goodness.

JW: My memory is they came back to Albany, Oregon. What else do you want me to say?

MB: Well, where, where was, do you remember where your grandfather was born?

JW: O.K, J.K, my grandfather, was born at Unionville, or near Unionville, 3:00Missouri on March the third of 1849.

MB: My goodness.

JW: His parents were Alfred Harrison Weatherford, who was born in Virginia on August the 14th, 1814, and his mother was Sophia Smith Weatherford, who was born December the 22nd, 1819. I have no knowledge of where that occurred. My 4:00grandfather's father, died on the 5th of July, 1855, and his mother died November 14, 1861. He was at quite a young age when both his mother and father died, both deaths occurred at Unionville, Missouri, and he remained there with 5:00the rest of his family, there were several members of the family, and in 1864, he came to Oregon, with a family named Morgan. The Morgan family were coming to Oregon, and according to my grandfather's statement they were sitting on the porch of a store in Unionville, Missouri on an evening, and Mr. Morgan came by and said "We're leaving for Oregon in the morning, Jimmy, and if you want to drive a team, why, you can come with us," so that's why he came, at least that's 6:00the story he told me.

I also find that, the rest of his family, which was headed by his older brother John, brought the other members of the family across the plains at the same time. Now whether they were in the same wagon train or not, I don't know. But he arrived in Oregon and settled in Brownsville, and worked in the woolen mill there, after having worked some as an ox team driver hauling supplies to Boise 7:00City, Idaho, I'll have to back up. Boise City was not a part of Oregon at the time of the Territory.

MB: Oh I see, sure. I wonder how you spell that. Like B-O-I-S? Bois?

JW: No. It's Boise.

MB: Oh, Boise. Ah.

JW: It was Boise City, and it's now Boise City. It's gone back, they've reassumed the old name of Boise City.

MB: Really?

JW: Maybe they call it Boise City, now, but the old pronunciation was Bois City.

MB: Oh I see, yeah. That's interesting. I hadn't known that.

JW: An aside, I think that was about the time your ancestors came.

8:00

MB: About the year '64. It was just before the end of the Civil War, wasn't it? The Civil War ended in '65.

JW: Yeah.

MB: And my folks came in '66.

JW: O.K.

MB: Yes.

JW: Well, then he taught school. Now, something I've never been able quite to understand. He was only sixteen years old, or between fifteen and sixteen, in the years he came west. But he taught school some. Where he got the education I don't know. Then he went to Corvallis College, as the records of the College show, and he graduated there in '72, 1872. After that, he served, taught school 9:00some, I guess, and he got elected as county school superintendent, for Linn County. Apparently, 1873, or maybe '72, I don't know which year. And he served in that office until he got admitted to the state Bar. At that time he read law under some lawyer here in Albany and took the examination, and was admitted in 10:00July 1875. He immediately after that started his practice in Albany, and in 1876 he was elected to the Oregon Legislature as a representative from Linn County. And they had some kind of a contest for the election of the Speaker of the House of Representatives that term, and the night before the final vote he was told by 11:00one of the members to keep his mouth shut and possibly he might be elected Speaker of the House the next day. And he was elected Speaker, in a rather peculiar situation when he was only, as you can see, some 26 or 27 years old.

MB: Not very old.

JW: ...and it was his first day in attendance as a member of uh, the House of Representatives of Oregon, and became Speaker of it, the leading man. That was the only term that he served in the House. Much later in the '80's er, several, I don't know how many terms he was state senator for, for Linn County. He 12:00continued his practice of law specializing in what he really enjoyed, defending murderers. That was his main pastime.

MB: Gosh.

Charlotte Weatherford Allen: I knew there was going to be a skeleton somewhere.

MB: That's wonderful.

JW: Though he was quite active in the practice of law, records of the courts would show he represented the Southern Pacific Company at the time for a number 13:00of years. He had been active in an organization of the Oregon Pacific Railroad that later became the Corvallis and Eastern Railroad. I can't remember when.

MB: Did they call it the Oregon Electric, or was that even later?

JW: No, no, Oregon Electric was many years later, about 1912. The railroad from Yaquina Bay, over the Cascades, supposed to go to Boise. And it became insolvent, before they got over the Santiam Pass, and apparently he represented 14:00the C. & E. Railroad in some capacity, and finally it became the Corvallis Eastern, the old C and E, it was called. Was not the original developer o£ the road, but It succeeded, and then later It was acquired by the Southern Pacific, many years. During the last period of the existence of the Corvallis and Eastern Railroad Company, he was the last president of the railroad. It was kind of an under receivership, but he was the president, and apparently was the president at the time it was purchased by the Southern Pacific. Now whether I'm correct in 15:00saying the Southern Pacific bought it, or if it was one of, some other corporation, I don't know when the Southern Pacific Company was formed. And it was the original railroad through the valley, the historic push by Harriman.

MB: Oh that's right. Averil, or would it be, the father of Averil?

JW: Yeah.

MB: Now, tell me if you can, how he became involved as a regent of Oregon State, I remember that they, oh you're coming to that.

JW: You heard me say he was in the state senate?

MB: Right.

JW: He was in the Senate when the Board of Regents, for the two colleges were organized. That was a legislative act.

16:00

MB: Yes.

JW: At least as far as Oregon, now I might be wrong on that, but he was in there when the Corvallis College became apparently the, what's the word I want?

MB: The land-grant university?

JW: No, Corvallis College was a private institution, and in some way Oregon, acquired ownership of it, and it was in 1884 that they passed the law, no, I guess it was earlier than that, it must have been '83, '84. But they, is that 17:00when they took it over, I don't know, but anyway that's the year they formed the Board of Regents for Oregon State. And he was a member of the Senate, and apparently was at least one of the members who was a graduate of Corvallis College, and for that reason was always interested in education, so apparently that was the reason the governor appointed him, to the position. He was a member of the first board of Regents for O.A.C..

MB: Yes, I see. O.K. That's important to know. I'm going to turn this off for a moment and tell you about a little story that I know about.--

MB: O.K., is this working? Yes, it's working. O.K. I can see those little deals 18:00there. O.K. now, we need to talk a little bit again about his practice.

JW: Well, he had a very general practice, but his specialty of course, what he loved best, was the defense of criminals, particularly charged with murder. He was, became quite known, for years, I believe he had the honor of trying, defending more murder cases than any other attorney in the state.

MB: Is that so?

JW: Of course, later, more likely he was topped by somebody, more recent generations.

19:00

MB: Let me ask you a question, Jim. Could they bring murderers from other counties to this county to be tried?

JW: No, no.

MB: No, they couldn't do that...

JW: No, they weren't all tried, that is, I'll take that back, they weren't all tried in the county where the murder was committed, but most generally they were.

MB: I see.

JW: In one case which was quite famous, the State vs. George Miller, the murder occurred in, the killing occurred in Harney County, and it was tried in Harney County, and I think also it was also later tried in Baker County, maybe I'm wrong about that, but it was finally tried for the fourth time in Prineville in Crook County, at which time he was a murderer who had been convicted and 20:00sentenced to die three times, was acquitted by the jury, as a result of my grandfather breaking down the widow of the deceased, getting her excited, and she unthinkingly answered a quick question he asked her, "Where did you put the gun?" and she says "Between the feather beds," The defense had never been able to prove before that her husband had guns at the time of the shooting. The defense was that he, Mr. Miller, had gone to the home of the deceased to recover 21:00a horse which belonged to Mr. Miller that the other man had stolen. And when he got there, he claimed the other man shot at him, and Mr. Miller went armed, in keeping with the present generation around Harney County, and he immediately shot and killed the deceased.

MB: Oh Jim! Mercy, yes, yes, mercy. Another thing that we talked about during that time, was about the, your being in practice with him here. And you and Mark 22:00and so on.

JW: After I joined the firm in 1928, the only murder case we had was the one in Lincoln County, and as I said, the case was defended by Mark Weatherford and I, and on the final day of the trial, my grandfather, who had not been very well, came over, and the judge permitted him to make one of the closing arguments of the trial of the case. He was not convicted, the jury resulted in a hung 23:00verdict, and thus the case ended in no decision, and the district attorney later re-indicted the defendant, charging him with murder in the first degree, and Mark Weatherford and I tried it, and he was acquitted. That was the only murder case, as I say, that existed, or occurred rather, during the term that, or period that I was with my grandfather in the practice.

MB: You know, I need to get clear the relationship between you and Mark 24:00Weatherford. I know that he wasn't your brother, I know that he was, could you tell?

JW: Mark Weatherford was the nephew of my grandfather. He was the son of, one of the sons of his older, older brother, William W. Weatherford, or William Washington, or W.W. Weatherford, whichever you want to call him. Pioneer settler in Gillam County. Mark Weatherford graduated from Oregon State in 1900, and was admitted to practice in Oregon in 1910. He immediately joined my grandfather in practice in Albany, and remained a member of the firm up until the time of his 25:00death in 1962. He was not active for several years due to a war disability, which happened in World War I. He returned to the active practice in 1925, and continued until his death. The other member of the firm during the period of my association with the firm was J.R. Wyatt, who was a native born-in-Linn County product. He quit practice after a hunting accident, in which he shot one of his 26:00shoulders out, and was somewhat incapacitated thereafter.

MB: Gee whiz. People, things did happen to people, didn't they, bad things? Let me ask you now just one other thing, and that is about your grandfather's children. I want to get that straight, the succession down here.

JW: Well, they had, my grandparents had two sons, my father Rialto, Rialto, that's with "i" in it, Lynn...

MB: L-I-N-N?

27:00

JW: Did seem silent... I think it was spelled with a "y".

CA: I think it was L-I-N-N, Dad.

JW: Huh?

CA: I think it was L-I-N-N.

JW: It was? O.K., I don't know.

CA: I'm not positive, but that's the way I've always seen it.

JW: And his brother was, who was younger, was Alfred B. Weatherford. My father married my mother, Erma Horning of Corvallis, on December the 18th, 1899.

28:00

MB: My goodness.

JW: My parent's family consisted of my sister Annette, Mary Annette Weatherford, who married Thomas G., or Griffith, Cowgill in September of 1925.

MB: And then there were just the two of you, you and Annette.

JW: Yeah.

MB: Is that correct?

JW: Uh huh.

MB: O.K.

JW: You want dates?

MB: Sure.

JW: I was born on December the 27th, 1901, and my sister was, her date of birth 29:00was September the 17th, 1900.

MB: O.K., what, can you tell me a little bit about your grandmother? Just what you recall about her, just her personality and so on.

JW: My grandmother Weatherford, as I stated in the beginning, her name, maiden name was Cottle. The Cottle family traced their ancestors back to William Bradford, first governor of Massachusetts, and one of the prime movers of the Mayflower.

30:00

MB: Why, I'll say.

JW: Her father was the age of, in his teens, he became the head of the family when his father died from disease in New Orleans, and farmed, uh, parts of uh, Iowa, until sometime in 1840's--7, 1847, he came to Oregon. His wife, first wife 31:00had died--

MB: O.K., go ahead.

JW: He came to Oregon, brought his family to Oregon in 1847, with the Keyes family group I don't know who was the head of the train, but they settled in Linn County. He had a donation land claim just west of, of Lebanon. His wife 32:00died shortly after he arrived in Oregon, and subsequently he married Mary Bryant on November 11, 1852. She was a member of the Parker family, and my grandmother was born near Lebanon on October 2, 1853. And this was one of the early ladies 34:0033:00born in Oregon.

MB: Oh yes, of course. Right. We're O.K. here.

JW: I know that when she went to the Brownsville picnic they always wanted to introduce her as a pioneer, and she said she wasn't a pioneer, she was native born.

MB: That's great, yeah.

JW: Her father, my great-grandfather. Royal was his first name, Cottle was elected to the Oregon Territorial Legislature, and served in the term of 1853, er '52 rather. R-O-Y-A-L. Royal Cottle.

35:00

MB: O.K.

JW: And, as was usual during those days, he went down to California during the Gold Rush, and well, in 1853, moved to the San Jose area in California.

MB: Let's see. Let's just talk a minute.

CA: O.K.

MB: Let's talk a little bit about some of the family who went to Oregon State.

JW: Well if that's what you want, why...

MB: We'll just even. . .

JW: The only ones that I know who went to Oregon State after my grandfather, I don't think my mother went to Oregon State, although she was born and raised in 36:00Corvallis, uh, her family came from Missouri after the war. Her family name was Horning, and they had lost everything due to the raiders. Outlaws and negroes were quite a problem. Were quite a large plantation operator, and they lost everything. The place was ruined, and so they came to Oregon in '65, but I don't think she went to Oregon State. But my father didn't go to Oregon State, he went to Albany College [side note: what was Albany College is now Lewis and Clark College in Portland] at the time, which was a local institution, and other than 37:00that, as I say, the only ones that I know that went to Oregon State were Mark Weatherford, who graduated in 1907, his brother, Fred, uh Frederick, in 19, I don't know which year, what the, several, one or two or three years after Mark Weatherford's graduation. Other members of the family was my sister, graduated 38:00there in 1923, and I graduated in 1924.

One other member of the Weatherford family that, that did quite well, was Marion E. Weatherford, who was the nephew of Mark Weatherford, also two of his cousins, who were natives of Gillam County, was Snell Weatherford, and James Earl 39:00Weatherford. Both those graduated, were in attendance during the early '40's. Also Judith Weatherford, who was the sister of Snell Weatherford, graduated at Oregon State. She later married, and she and her husband were engaged as instructors at a junior college in Washington.

40:00

MB: O.K.

CA: As you go down the generations, there's been a few in each generation at least. Yeah, both, all sides of the family. Yeah.

JW: Then, I guess Charlotte, my daughter was one of the members of the family who graduated there, in 1957.

MB: And Margaret. . .

JW: Since then, since then, later generations have been three sons of Donald Cowgill, my sister's number three boy, and those were first Michael G., who 41:00graduated in, it's three years before the 28th, 25, he graduated in I960-75.

CA: I don't know. I lost track.

JW: And his brother Michael G. Cowgill is now a member of the present Weatherford law firm, practicing here in Albany, and he was admitted in December, no, not December, September the 18th, of 1978, exactly 7, 50 years 42:00after I was admitted.

MB: Really. Well, isn't that something, Jim. Hmm. Well.

JW: Both of his brothers--

CA: Craig and Steven.

JW: Craig Cottle--

MB: Craig?

CA: Craig

JW: Craig.

CA: And Steven.

JW: Graduated the year following Michael.

CA: Craig was a year behind.

JW: And his other brother, Steven Cottle, graduated, and Steven Cottle is now 43:00practicing dentistry in Salem, Oregon, and Craig Cottle is a major in the U.S. Air Force. Also, Robert L. Cowgill, son of Kenneth L. Cowgill and grandson of Annette Cowgill. Other Weatherfords were Markie Runckel and Harrison, children of Mack V. Weatherford. Others attended but did not graduate. My wife, Margaret Cartwright, who married me in April of 1929, was in the grads of 1928. My daughter, Charlotte, was a 1957 grad.

MB: Great. And your mother was what class?

CA: 1928. She didn't start at Oregon State. She finished there.

MB: Where did she start?

CA: University of Idaho.

MB: Really?

CA: At Moscow.

MB: Truly?

CA: Spent a year there.

MB: But uh--

JW: She graduated in 1928.

MB: But wasn't uh--but she, was she, wasn't she an Oregonian?

44:00

JW: Yeah.

MB: But she went to--

CA: Born in Portland. Her aunt lived in Idaho.

JW: Her father, her grandfather was a member of the city council in Albany in 1872.

MB: You say grandfather.

JW: Her grandfather, Charles M. Cartwright, who was also one of the founders of the Haycreek Ranch, prominently known in Eastern Oregon. Became a great sheepman. We're tied in with the state pretty tightly.

MB: Well aren't you, really? Isn't it wonderful. Yeah, it's great. I'll say. Do you think of anything that, that, that you'd like to, any subject you'd like to 45:00bring up, Jim, about your grandfather or any of the ensuing generations, or anything that you'd like to say, in particular.

JW: No, I don't have anything in particular, we just try to be decent citizens, well, at least my immediate family, as far back as I know has been free from any criminal prosecutions. I did get arrested once for speeding, because I didn't know the traffic cop. I got to know him later, and I could do most anything I wanted to, and not get arrested, but I've tried to represent what I might term a 46:00reasonable population, as far as being honest and trustworthy. . .

CA: Well that's--

JW:--don't claim any great honors for anything, just------left to do our duty. I, for the purposes of identifying myself, I was elected to the legislature in nineteen-hundred and thirty-one, along with another gentleman. We became 47:00candidates in the 1930 election, as a result Mark Weatherford, and A.K. McMahon, another attorney in Albany, asking the voters in a published notice in the local paper, to write our names in as candidates for the legislature on the, as the Democratic nominees, as I said how no Democratic nominees filed for the job. The other member was James W. Jenks, and unfortunately

MB: James W. Jenks!

JW: More people voted for me than voted for him, and the result is I got to go and he didn't.

MB: Dear me! You know, I had kind of forgotten that. I knew that, I don't 48:00remember, I knew that, I guess that Dad was involved in running for some office at one point, but I didn't remember that, anything about it. Well, isn't that something. Huh.

JW: Well, neither one of us knew anything about the notice in the paper before we saw it.

MB: Isn't that funny? Well, my gosh. That's incredible. Isn't that something?

CA: I don't think I've ever even heard that story.

JW: As a result of that election, er nomination, I got elected, and heard out that session, and then went back in '33 session, second term, and decided that I was not inclined to be a full time politician. I could have most likely been 49:00re-elected in 1935, because that was the year that the Democrats took over the legislature. When I was in the legislature, the two terms that I was in there, and for a number of years before, there had been very, very few members of the Democratic Party.

MB: Is that so?

JW: In the legislative bodies. Republicans controlled it completely. Linn County hadn't had, only had one senator, several years before I was down there. Sam Garland was a Democrat, but he was the only Democrat that had been elected from the county for a number of years.

MB: That's amazing.

JW: The thirty-fifth, 1932 session, was of the election of the president, the 50:00beginning of a welfare program to help the country, which is gonna be a burden to overcome. I have always argued that the Franklin D. program of public works was a sensible program, because at that time you had to produce to get on the program. In other words, you had to work, put out something. What they have now, developed the program to such an extent that nobody does any work. The 51:00government just pays you. Oh you don't need you can make all the racket you want to.

MB: O.K., let's turn this off for just a minute now.

JW: O.K.

MB: Now I'm talking to Charlotte Weatherford Allen about the trunk which she gave to the Horner Museum. It's been three years ago? When was it?

CA: I think that's about right.

MB: Yeah, in 19 whatever, 88. Right. And, uh, you remember that, Jim, that she took that trunk over to, does he remember it? Over to--

CA: He didn't know what was in it.

MB: Yeah, yeah. Some of the things they wanted to ask you were who, where did 52:00the trunk come from, and who owned it? Do you recall?

CA: The trunk itself Dad knows about.

JW: Yes, the trunk was down in the basement of grandparents' home, ol' Mile High.

MB: Really?

JW: Yes, my grandmother seemed to like to retain things.

MB: As ladies sometimes do. Right.

JW: Of course, maybe they didn't have welfare organizations in those days, and there wasn't any place to get rid of it, so they might as well keep it.

MB: Yeah, right. Well that's right. Absolutely. What, so you're not sure actually who owned the clothes.

53:00

CA: Yeah, that I'm pretty sure of.

MB: Oh. O.K.

CA: Those things were Great-grandfather's and Great-grandmother's

MB: O.K.

CA: I remember specifically a coat that I know was Great-grandfather's, because it was like a morning-type coat, what they used to call a morning coat. It was much heavier than what a formal coat would be. But I remember it because when we had a family get-together, years and years ago, Craig wore that coat, because he was the only one of the kids who could fit into it.

MB: Because he was the smallest?

CA: He was the slimmer one, and I wore the dress that I think was in that trunk. There was a dress of Great-grandmother's, too. Whether it was the one I wore, I'm not sure. But we had to find skinny people to wear these things, for this Weatherford family reunion, because, let me tell you, trying to get that around 54:00me was. . .

MB: My gosh.

CA: --they were very slender people.

MB: Really. Well, they were all very small, weren't they?

CA: Yeah, they were smaller, yeah.

MB: Let's see. So you don't know about any occasions that were involved, any, the clothes were just there--

CA: Yeah, they were kept for all those years. I would imagine from the looks of the coat it was one that he wore to come to the office in, maybe. They dressed probably a lot more formally than we do now.

MB: Probably. Probably. Yes.

CA: And Great-grandmother wore a lot of black dresses. Very rarely anything else, from what I could see from the rest of her wardrobe that I looked at. Mostly black. And I guess that was the way they did it, too.

55:00

MB: Let's see. The people at the museum have told me that, they ask here who is Mary Annette Weatherford, and we established that was Jim Weather ford's sister, and daughter--

CA: And--and grandmother, great-grandmother, too.

MB: Oh, oh of course!

CA: See, she was Mary Annette Cottle Weatherford, and Annette (Annette Weatherford Cowgill) was named after her.

MB: Oh quite true. Right, right.

CA: Mary Annette Weatherford.

MB: Exactly.

CA: But they both went by Annette.

MB: Oh, did they? Yeah.

JW: What my grandfather always called her was Netty.

MB: Did he?

CA: Netty.

MB: Great.

CA: And I didn't know either one of them, so I didn't know that.

MB: Oh you didn't, of course, no. They died before you were born.

CA: Before I was old enough to know anybody.

MB: Sure. Except me, maybe.

CA: Yeah, we go back a ways. The other things in the trunk were mostly household 56:00kinds of things that we were pretty sure were theirs. Things that had been in the old house forever. Things that my grandmother never would have used, because she would have had more modern types of things. Dad's got an inventory, I think, of what was in there.

MB: Oh, do you. Great.

CA: They sent us one. I had one too, but in the--

MB: Where? Horner did?

CA: Uh huh.

MB: Good.

CA: They sent us an inventory. It was just, they had told me they were really kind of interested in having some everyday kinds of things that people were to be used in their homes, during that period of time. So, and my cousins actually packed up the trunk.

MB: Oh, is that so. Uh huh.

CA: But I told them what we wanted, some ideas of what we wanted. I mean, there 57:00was some old household stuff that was hysterical there.

MB: Oh, I'll bet. I'll just bet.

CA: I think there was an old, there might have been an old iron, but things like that.

MB: You know they're running out of room at Horner Museum, and trying to figure out what they're going to do next.

CA: I'm sure that some of those things would never have been things that Grandmother used. As a matter of fact, when it came to ironing and those kinds of things, I'm sure Great-grandmother never did it either, because she always had servants.

MB: Right, right. People to do it for her. Yeah.

CA: I haven't figured out how to do that yet.

MB: Give us time. We'll come around to it.

CA: I don't know, Mary Jack, at this age, we've never figured out before.

MB: Oh who cares, who cares? Yes.

CA: Too late to worry about it.

MB: Yeah.

JW: Here's a picture.

CA: Dad--

MB: My goodness sakes, that's the way I remember you, Jim, when I was a little girl. Well, it says 1934. That's wonderful.

58:00

JW: Another campaign picture for when I ran for district attorney.

MB: That's what that was.

CA: Hey Mary, do you know that Horner has an inventory of what was in that trunk?

MB: Uh huh, good. Well, good. O.K.

CA: If you have trouble finding it, I can send you a copy, Mary.

MB: Let's talk a little bit, Jim, about the house on Montgomery, 5th and Montgomery.

JW: Yes.

MB: Street in Albany, where your grandmother and grandfather lived. Did they build that house, do you suppose?

JW: The home was built on that five, apparently in 1885. Might have been started 59:00first in '86, but that I don't know. But my grandfather acquired that property from two of the Hacklemans, one of them, one half of it, acquired from a son of the patentee, and the other part of it he acquired from the patentee direct. In other words, that property has only been owned under two names, Hackleman and Weatherford.

MB: Excuse me, Jim, tell us just briefly about the Hacklemans. Weren't they some of the very original settlers of Albany, is that right?

JW: Well, yes. The Hacklemans were number one settlers.

MB: Right.

JW: Well that is, I'll take it back, they were, had apparently the first 60:00donation land claim.

MB: Right.

JW: They and the Monteiths.

MB: Right. I thought that

JW: And some of the descendants still remain in this community. But the house was built, and was occupied by my grandparents for as long as they lived. Upon their death my parents moved into the house, and after the death of my father and mother, my sister remained in the home, until it was sold in 198----

CA: Eight, was it '88, Dad? Or maybe--

61:00

JW: It was three years, I think. Four years.

CA: '88 or '89.

JW: April of '86. No, we sold it after my sister's death. That was in '85. I guess we sold it in '87.

CA: I don't think so. Well, doesn't matter.

MB: Yeah, right.

JW: It was a fair-sized house, lots of good------we can say about it.

CA: It was a wonderful old house.

MB: Well, did it have some, any unusual wood, or any unusual carvings or anything inside it? It seemed to me I remembered some beautiful wood on the bannister and some things like that.

JW: No, no.

CA: And the archway between the parlor and the living room. All carved--was beautiful.

JW: And someone is taking care of it now.

62:00

CA: It's been sold.

MB: It has been sold. Have you been back to see it?

CA: Only by, not in. Not in there. I don't think Dad has either.

MB: Uh huh. Yeah, yeah.

CA: Well--

JW: The most unusual thing about it was that they didn't do what most of the other people in Albany did.

MB: Which was?

JW: Raise their house up, and put a basement on dirt. They excavated to have a basement. In other words, you take back all the other homes when they got the sewers, they raised the house and put the furnace under it.

MB: Yeah.