Oregon State University Libraries and Press

Peggy Allworth Oral History Interview, September 9, 1979

Oregon State University

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0:00

Jennifer Lee: Mrs. Allworth, why don't we start with where and when were you born?

Peggy Allworth: I was born in California, Hanford California, down in the San Joaquin Valley, ah 1897. And we lived there until I was about 12 years old. My Father was principal of the High School and then he, it was time for him to retire, and we moved to Oregon. My father and mother came up before the rest of the family and uh, went all over. A real estate man took them all over this country side and he wrote home that they had found paradise out in the Alsea valley but there weren't any schools. So they came back to Corvallis and steeled here, and I went all through the elementary and high schools here, and college. At Oregon State.

JL: How large a community was Hanford?

1:00

PA: Oh, I would say it was just a small town. It didn't have a college. It was--I can't remember the population. I really wasn't interested, at 12, you know (Laughing) and I don't remember, it uhm, the High School was the big thing there, so it musta been, oh, just a small town.

JL: So he was principal of the High School.

PA: My Father was principal of the High School, that's about 40 miles from Fresno. People know about Fresno, but they don't know about Hanford. (Laughing)

JL: And why did they choose Oregon?

PA: Well, he wanted to get into a cooler climate for one thing, and then he knew so much, I thought my Father knew everything in the world. I never asked him a question that he didn't know how to answer, and I just thought he was the wisest man in the world. Uhm I was sure he knew everything.

2:00

JL: Did you ever change your opinion over the years?

PA: No, I never changed my opinion, about that because he, he often said "If anybody wants to be really educated, he must love to learn." And he loved to learn. He lived with us, he made his home with us, my Mother died when I, the year I finished college, and my Father lived with us then for many years out on our farm.

JL: You and your husband, you mean?

PA: Yes. And uh, I could hear him in the evening doing his calculus and all kinds of mathematics just for pure pleasure.

JL: So he was a mathematics professor also.

PA: Yes, both my parents were very, very good at mathematics.

JL: Why were they in California? How did they get out to

PA: Well, my Father came from Iowa, and he worked on the train one year, and 3:00when the train came out to Northern California and the peaches were in bloom and everything was lovely, he said this is where I want to be, and so, and my Mother lived at Los Gatos, Ca. that was 10 miles from San Jose,

JL: What was she doing there?

PA: That was her home.

JL: Was her Father and Mother

PA: Father and Mother and family. They lived there. And she must have gone to Livermore to school, because that's where my Father was teaching at the time. And she was his pupil. And uh, so when she graduated from High School, why he married her. And there were 22 years difference in their ages. And it was the most beautiful marriage I've ever seen. I never, I knew they loved each other, all of us knew that. I never heard them say I Love You, like people do now, but 4:00the kindness and I never in my home, heard one cross word, in all my life.

JL: Is that right?

PA: Uh huh. And there were 6 of us children. Beautiful parents. Wonder

JL: What do you think the key to that is? That kind of a relationship.

PA: Ah, I think that they were so sure that it just communicated to us, and I don't believe there's anything that will replace, or can take the place of the attitudes of the parents and the influence it has on the children. We knew that they loved and adored each other. He took care of her, he helped her and his attitudes were all like this.

JL: Were they demonstrative?

PA: Not very - he was very, very gentle with her. Course she was only 19 when he married her and he was you see over 40. But it was us,

5:00

JL: Bet it was unusual during those times

PA: People didn't used to be so demonstrative nor so uhm a-talkative about it. This is something that's happened in the last few years.

JL: What do you mean by that?

PA: I mean that I never heard my Mother say, tell my Father "I love you", and in those days they didn't even call their husbands by their first name, usually. And especially to other people.

JL: Is that right?

PA: Uh huh. She called - to us children, she called my Father Papa - Papa's calling you. Uh but to other people, she'd say Mr. Walker will be here in just few minutes. Because uh, women didn't call their husbands so often by their first names then.. Now this doesn't seem strange to me, because I was used to it. But it would seem strange to you because uh, even now lots of children call 6:00their parents by their first name, you know, but Oh My - we called my Father SIR. Yes sir - no sir. Uh huh. This was with absolute respect.

JL: You like the changes then?

PA: Oh I like some of the changes. And it doesn't matter to me. It isn't important (Oh there's a fly!) Uh it really isn't important, is, what's behind it. I think some of the things have become a little uhm, a little course, because it was such a refined "thing then. In our home I can remember that, when I was in my sorority and I called my Father "Yes sir" and No Sir they thought that was awfully funny. But we had always done that in our home. And "No Mom" and "Yes Mom" to our Mother

7:00

JL: Uhm what were the, what were the names of your brothers and sisters?

PA: Well you see, since my Father was oh literate, my eldest brother's name was Egbert from Hawthorne's book, and of course he didn't like the name and everybody called him Bert, and my name was Ethel because that was the, the lady in uhm a very lovely book, The Newcomes (? -- published in 1855, has a character named Ethel) I think is the name of the book. And uh, Elaine from a poem, and uh,

JL: What poem?

PA: Oh you know, honestly, my memory is just terrible! You know, the poem is "Elaine the fair - Elaine the loveable." (Chuckling) Elaine the lilly maid of Astolat, Hi her tower to the east and - that Lancelot -

JL: OH - Okay.

PA: (Really laughing) And that's where it came from. That's where it came from, 8:00and one of my younger brothers was named Winthrop Lee, and uh one of my brothers was named Kent, and that is uh, was a literary name, because I didn't know anybody else by the name of Kent, but I do now, course there quite a few people, and we have a number, members of the family who have been named for him to and friends. I ran across one yesterday, uh we named one of our sons Kent. And his chum named his son Kent, after my son. Uh this son was a Navy pilot. And uh he was killed right after he got through with his Navy training. Uhm he was taking some school work and, at Berkeley and uhm, the police were pursuing renegades 9:00and went thru the red light. And then afterwards I read about this, how many every year are killed by this very circumstance. It was a beautiful boy. I'll show you a picture of him.

JL: Oh, I'm sorry. That was very hard I'm sure.

PA: Yes.

JL: When were you, are you older or younger, how do you fall in the

PA: Oh I'm second from the eldest. I'm 82, second from the youngest. (?)

JL: You don't look 82.

PA: (LAUGHING!!!) I felt it a month ago bit I feel less like it now.

JL: You have a tremendous amount of energy.

PA: Well, ah, I'm restricted, and it just always worrisome to me - I want to get out there and weed and everything.(More laughing) My yard looks so terrible because I don't keep it watered, but I'm told not to, and I haven't driven the car yet but I will, in a couple more days I think.

10:00

JL: So you came here in, with your family in 12 years after, let's see what year would that be?

PA: Uh see, after 1897 that would be about 1910.

JL: 1910. What do you remember about that? Coming into Corvallis.

PA: Oh I remember lots of things. We come on the train of course, people traveled that way. All of us.

JL: With all of your belongings?

PA: With all - we chartered a railroad car, because we had a library, tons of books, and we had a horse and buggy of course, and they were all in this chartered railroad car. And uh,

JL: The buggy also? The buggy, you sold your buggy down in California when you came up?

PA: No, we brought the buggy. We had to have it, because we were coming up here, we traded our California home for a farm out here south of town. And uh I'll 11:00never forget that farm so long as I live, because it had been the county poor farm. And it was, it's a beautiful farm on the other side, in fact it's part of Fairhaven Heights. On the other side of Fairhaven Heights. And we kids thought it was just wonderful, we bragged about it being the County poor farm. We'd never heard of such a thing.(Chuckling) And so we came up with all our belongings, and lived in that, and then uh, the sister who lives across the street, and one young brother were born out here, after we came up here north. But coming on the train, then when we were coming thru the Siskiyou Mountains there was a forest fire. We'd never seen a forest fire! The flames came right up to the train windows you know, it was nothing but blaze on the east side. Oh, I 12:00can remember how excited we were! Scared, too! Oh, boy.

JL: When you arrived here, was there someone here to greet you? Or how did you know where to go from--

PA: No - No - we just went out to Oh I'll take that back. There was a family here who my parents had contacted. And we stayed there for a few days, or maybe a few weeks, I can't remember, until we were able to get into the little place out there.

JL: Well they had come up ahead of time, and searched out

PA: Yes, my Father and Mother had come up ahead of time and the contract was all finished and everything.

JL: I wanted to ask you - what do you remember about your Grandparents?

PA: Oh a lot about my, one Grandmother lived with until I was 17. Now this is my father's Mother.

JL: What was her name?

PA: And her name was Sarah. And she died when she was 96. She did our baking, 13:00and she was very strict with us. She's say "You mustn't use your Sunday hat that your Mother made to catch junebugs." I can remember her telling me that. All the way home from Sunday school! (Laughing) And she was a great person, really. Now I have a family history that I have concocted, with all the pictures that I could get ahold of that would appertain to this kind of thing you know. And when my son was here, just recently, I thought he was going to have a fit over that because there were things in there he didn't know about, you know. He says, don't let this get out of your hands, Will You Mother? So - I said No, you may have it. I've written in it all the things I can remember and, uh, the pictures that would be acceptable to this kind of thing, you know.

14:00

JL: I would love to see it.

PA: I'll show it to ya.

JL: So, Sarah Walker, was that her name?

PA: Well her married name was Sarah Walker. Sarah Eliza Jane Walker. And uh, but she had been a Waite. Do you ever watch the Waltons? Have you ever? Well anyway, we don't either, usually although I'll take you who makes her home with me, my husband's sister, eldest sister, she's 91, she hasn't heard a word for 25 years, she is one of the most wonderful people I've ever known. She's like my husband. Never a word of complaint, she does all of our cooking, you can see and uh -- oh, loves to fix the food, and put the meals on the table and when I was feeling well and strong I was doing all the rest of the things. This the way we divide 15:00it, and this is the way she wants it. She buys the food, and does the cooking. And she's marvelous. She's taking a little nap right now.

JL: And you were saying that Sarah, your Grandmother also did this? Also did the cooking?

PA: Oh she did lots of things. In fact, also my maternal Grandparents were with us for a while. You see, in those days, this is what happened. And for all the years that we lived at the farm, until my husband died, or just before, why, both of our fathers lived with us. For years, it was a privilege! I loved it, and our children knew all about older people.

JL: I guess some families think that they get in the way.

PA: Well this is not entirely the fault of the children. Now you would probably, if you have a mother, you'd probably love to keep her, if she were alone. But you see, I don't want my children to keep me. See this is the general attitude 16:00of Senior Citizens now. I'd probably go over to the Village, if I had to live all by myself. I don't know, but I think this is, you see the parents it was, it was the accepted situation that the parents lived with the children when they got older and they couldn't cope with all the things you know.

JL: This didn't bother you then? When you had your parents living with you?

PA: Oh, we loved it! We just loved it! And they have so much to contribute to family life. My father worked in the yard. And Ed's father played the piano and uh they used to uhm, one was a Democrat, one was a Republican, they used to play Cribbage together, 'course sometimes the children bothered them a little bit. But then that was alright, too. (Laughing) The babies would get under their card-table you know, and bump their heads - I can remember that so well!!! OH - 17:00but there were wonderful memories, and both of them very well educated. Ed's father was an editor of our paper in Grants Pass. He was a reported on the Oregonian. He interviewed Charles Dickens when he was here in the NW. He was Oh he was a wonderful man.

JL: You knew him then?

PA: Oh, yes. He lived with us for probably 20 years. Both of their wives passed away before they did. My mother died too young. 42. The year, the spring that I finished college, in 1919 and my mother died and I was married, Ed came home from overseas, that was a summer! Terrible!

JL: Before we get to that, why don't we go back to, uhm, your moving on the train. With your Grandmother then

PA: Yes, Grandmother came with us.

JL: And you arrived in Corvallis. And you were age 12, did you say?

18:00

PA: I was about 12 I think, about 12, and we were at that old depot down here on Adams, 7th and Adams, or someplace like that. And I remember SO WELL thinking that these Oregon women were the most beautiful things I'd ever seen. All the women and everybody who lived down there where we lived, were brown and kinda leathery you know. From so much sunshine, and these women were, they had skin like yours. Smooth and, uh, milky kinda, you know. Oh I think they were beautiful. I remember how impressed I was.

JL: You-- I guess you weren't sorry to leave California?

PA: Oh well, we were so used to everybody's being brown, it's like a friend of mine who was stationed in Texas, she said "Oh everybody down there has hay for hair, and brown skin because of the sun. Hot sun."

19:00

JL: What did your father do when he came up here then?

PA: He just a, that was a farm out there, and he, it was a big orchard, on it and he farmed. And uh just helped take my mother take care of things and do the work. We never had any hired help. My Grandmother was there, but was six children that was a lot you know. There were 6 of us.

JL: He didn't yearn to go back to education?

PA: No -No he didn't. He was uh retirement age.

JL: What kind of things did you do with your Father?

PA: What kind of what?

JL: What kinds of things- entertainment or leisure?

PA: Oh, we had LOTS and lots of things out on the farm and my father participated in everything. We had company. You know, honey, every time, almost every time I meet somebody new, she'll say "Oh don't you remember, I was out 20:00there with the Extension Group." or I was out there with the 4-H group. Or I was out there with that Girl Scout reunion that you had out there. We had thousands of people at the farm.

JL: They were very gregarious people, your family.

PA: And my Father, was host. That's all. And so was Grandfather Allworth.

JL: Why did he choose to live out on a farm that's more isolated? It seems like he'd want to live in

PA: My uh, Ed was brought up on a farm and he wanted to farm, so we went out there and I just sold it 6 years age -

JL: We're not talking about your father.

PA: Oh you mean my Father's father? Yea well, my father wanted to live in the country, they had 6 children and this was a very lovely place, right on Mary's River, with a big orchard. I can remember when we went to school, the elementary school, we walked except when it was rainy or snowy, then my father drove the 21:00horse and buggy, ah we took lunches of course, we, and so after we came here we took 2 buckets, one full of apples and one full of lunch. I can remember because there was a big apple orchard there, we didn't have apples down there in CA. We had peaches, nectarines, grapes, everything you know. But, and apricots, but NO apples. We went crazy over the apples. ("Cracking Up!")

JL: What did you enjoy doing when you were living on the farm? Yourself? What kind of activities did you enjoy?

PA: Ah you mean the family farm? With my parents? Well, there were 78 angora goats on that farm. It came with the farm. We used to ride the goats all over that Fairhaven Heights hills, you know. (More laughing)And then of course in 22:00those days, children always helped with the work. And my brothers helped with the milking and I always helped take care of the children and do the housework. And uh, my sister did the same thing, the one who was just about my age. Ah all of us had our work to do. And this kept us very busy. We had-- We had swings and a lot of trees. We rode horses and the goats and everything.

JL: Would you consider yourself a tomboy?

PA: I was a tomboy, yes. Yes. I'll never forget that one time, a developer or a builder anyway, was building a house next door to us. Now I can't remember whether that was after we moved to town in Corvallis or not. But I was climbing a fence or up in a tree or something, and my Mother made black bloomers, black sateen bloomers for us girls, because we were always climbing, and that builder, that carpenter looked at me and he says "Say now, that's an idea." I was so 23:00proud of my mother for thinking about, well she HAD TO, we were always hanging from a tree or-- (More laughing)

JL: Did that distress her?

PA: Oh I, No she thought that was awfully funny. Ah now these were under our dresses you know, 'cause girls didn't wear pants then, you know. Oh Heavens.

JL: What would they have thought if you--

PA: Well, what would they have thought of us? NO - it was a long time before girls started wearing pants. And I think it's nice for girls to wear pants, like I do around home here, but I don't think it should be the only mode of dress. I think men like to see women in dresses, too. I think the new dresses are darling. I just love them. I went down not long ago and bought 2 of em. I just love 'em. I comes down to here, and they have nice big soft sleeves you know. I don't know!

JL: What kind of things did you do with your mother?

24:00

PA: Oh she, they both read to us. Constantly! I can just see them. We read, we took uhm, a magazine called the Youths Companion which was full of good stories, and uh, 'course there wasn't a paperback book in our house. Heaven Forbid!! And there were only the Scriveners and good magazines you know.

JL: What was a paperback book?

PA: Well, that was a cheap kind of a book! Now paperbacks now are totally acceptable, but it wasn't then. They were the, oh, the poor class of books. Seems funny to you, doesn't it? (More laughing) But that's true. I can remember one time when I was visiting my Grandfather, my maternal grandfather at Los Gatos, and I picked up a John Halifax, Gentleman, and it was a paperback, which 25:00was perfectly alright, and my Uncle came along, I was laying in the hammock, and he said "Oh my, Ethel, You shouldn't be reading that! What would your Father think?" But my Mother did, and my Grandmother. All of them read to us an awful lot when we were little, and all of us are readers. We like to read, and every time I see a new book, I've got one over there that I bought this morning, I can't stand it, I have to have 'em. Every room has bookcases. I gave over half my library when I left the farm, to my son-in-law and to my son, and yet I have so many, I don't know what all I'll ever do with 'em.

JL: You've probably read a great

PA: I love them, uh huh.

JL: What did your Father want you to be when you grew older? Did he stress, uhm, occupation?

PA: Didn't talk about those things much. Because uh, you see uh, women didn't really have, homemaking was a career. And when I say homemaking, I don't mean 26:00anything like drudgery or anything, I mean the pure joy of making a home. And my Mother was a wonderful homemaker, and I, there hasn't been a minute of my life when I was making a home for my family and my husband and my, our 2 Fathers that I haven't just loved every minute of it. And when I had spare time, I made rugs, I painted, all the cupboards at the farm, all the doors were painted. I had paintings on everything. It was pure joy. And my husband, while we never had a very big salary, because in those times they weren't paying very much, and when he came to the MU, they didn't have any money you know. He had to make all the money at the MU. He had to raise the money to build the building. And then after he died, the State took it over, but prior to that he had to make all the money, 27:00rent all the rooms and all kinds of things. But so far as the career for homemaking - that's what they were. Women just didn't have outside careers.

JL: How did your mother make it enjoyable?

PA: Oh, we had so much fun!

JL: How was that?

PA: Well I had a play house, and she helped me make doll clothes and uh, she taught me to sew. She taught me to play the piano and the organ. All of these things. They were so present.

JL: What was it about her that could make that kind of an occupation pleasant?

PA: She was a very precious, gentle woman. And every one of us just adored her. I can't remember ever having heard my Mother speak a cross word... Even an impatient word. Now I had paddlings from my Dad once in a while. But my Mother 28:00was just, we talk about this quite often. She was so patient, and so generous. One day, a neighbor lady came in and, I've always had good teeth, a neighbor lady came in and she says "Mrs. Walker, I want you to see what Ethel did to my Johnnie" and I bit him. I bit his arm because he was bothering me. And Momma just laughed. We called her, our Mother and Father Momma and Papa you know. Isn't that awful? (Really laughing) But I remember that so well. Momma didn't think that was so awful. She knew that I was protecting myself. I was, in those days I was quite small.

JL: How were you disciplined then?

PA: Well, we were taught to obey when we were very, very young and it didn't occur to us to do anything else. My Father did paddle me one time when uhm I was 29:00babysitting for one of the babies, and we were playing up in the haymow and our hay¬mow was 2 levels, and so I just tossed the baby down from the top level to the lower level, which I thought was alright. Well when he found out, why he didn't like it. Well, I got a paddlin' for that. And oh, 2-3 other times, but not very often. He, they were very strict, we respected it, discipline is so important. And I'm so sorry that people have forgotten all about it. I admired my parents because they were, I admired, I was glad to say to my friends, No I'm not allowed to do this. Or, I'm not allowed to do that. I was proud of the fact that my parents had restrictions for me. And I can remember admiring this in a little friend up in Los Gatos one time when she said, I said would you be able 30:00to walk part way home with me? And she said "No, I'm not allowed to go outside the fence." And it stayed with me. I thought she loved her parents because they care enough to take care of her, to tell her what she can and can't do. And that she's old enough so that she knows. I'm talking too much.

JL: No - that's fine.

PA: You asked me. You not very often do I reminisce to people. But I've had such a happy life.

JL: It sounds like it.

PA: Lots of the times, that there are lots of things that I like to think about.

JL: Well, good! I'm glad that you're sharing with me. Well, how did your parents teach you morals then?

PA: Morals? Well, uhm, 'course they were terribly moral and we had no drinking 31:00in our home. And there were not the immoralities practiced that there are now. Now I knew that there were certain women that did the wrong thing. I can't remember, except I remember one time when my mother said "It's just as bad for someone to go into a grocery store and pick up just a little plum and eat it, or to take a one postage stamp, as it would be for a real thief to take a thousand dollars, because he's taking something that doesn't belong to him." And maybe this is the way that these things were impressed on us. That uhm to do right was the thing.

JL: You didn't have discussions about this at all?

PA: No we didn't have discussions about those things. I can't ever remember 32:00having heard people talk about those things. And I didn't ever know anybody who did wrong things. And the papers, if it were discussed, I never heard it. And of course I don't suppose I read the newspaper until I was grown. So I didn't, it was never brought up.

JL: Were politics a part of your family life?

PA: Oh yes, my Father was a very strong, my Father and Mother were Republicans, and very interested in uhm, what went on, and had much to say about those in the White House, and uh in our government.

JL: Were they active in community government?

PA: Yes, always, and my Mother was always active in, whenever the fair - every year at the Fair she would bake bread, and she made fancy work and things like that and she belonged to the Woman's Club. My Father belonged to uhm, oh a Lodge 33:00that he went to - Woodmen of the World - that's it. And they didn't do very many things away from home. During the War, my Mother uhm helped with the bond drives and things of that kind, you know, she always seemed, she was very efficient, with her work. Because of course she had no conveniences like we have. You know. She didn't have a, she didn't have a washing machine, until I was in college. And I remember, we lived out at Philomath at that time, right at the end of West Hills Road, and she says just look at this, and she had one of those big round, I think it was a wooden washing machine, and she turned the handle, she says "Just think how many clothes, how many pieces of clothing I can do in an hour." 34:00And so of course she didn't have, she had a wood stove, and she, course she didn't have a dishwasher, and neither do I, I'm not interested, 'cause they're only two of us and our kitchen's so little we can hardly get into it anyway, and-- (Laughing) but she didn't have any of those things. She had a sewing machine and did an awful lot of sewing with the pedals, you know. The forerunner of the Singer, was called Wheeler and Wilson, I remember. She always had lots of flowers. She always knew when a neighbor needed help. And went to help.

JL: Were they religious people?

PA: Never vocally, but my Mother did teach a Sunday school class here in Corvallis, in the Methodist Church, and so did I. The preschoolers, I was so busy changing their pants and taking them to the toilet I didn't have much 35:00chance - and playing the organ for them to sing - I didn't have much chance to teach em (Cackling)

JL: So they belonged to the Methodist Church? Your Father and Mother?

PA: My Father was a Unitarian, my Mother was a Methodist. Uh hum. But nothing was ever talked about particularly. You know.

JL: What did religion mean to your Father?

PA: My well, I always think of that as a more liberal He was so good! He was so honest and so honorable, that that was the religion. That was his religion, to do what was right all the time.

JL: How did he know what was right?

PA: Don't you know when things are right? I Do. When it's for the best for every¬body concerned.

JL: He followed the Golden Rule then?

PA: Yes. Very much. Uh hum, yes.

JL: Was there a Unitarian Church you participated in?

PA: There is a Unitarian Church here now, you know. I don't know where it is or 36:00anything, in fact, one of my dearest friends is a Unitarian. And I really don't know anything about their religion. But I can remember somebody having said that was what my Father, I think that this is not believing in the Divinity of Christ's birth. Isn't this right? I'm not sure, 'cause I've never discussed it with anybody.

JL: He never discussed his religion then? With his family?

PA: But my Mother religiously read in the Bible, I have her Bible in here and I love it. And we have, oh we had so many things around home that were uhm on that level. To always do what is right, for the best good for everybody. To be honest, never self-seeking. Doesn't sound like much does it? But these things 37:00were not nearly, people were not nearly so vocal, in their homes. I had lots of young girl friends and, but I never heard them talk about these things, very much.

JL: What kind of things did your Father talk about then with his children?

PA: I thought he knew everything in the world that he talked about. All kinds of things. History of things. And he knew the history of everything. And how things became this way. He was so interested in Archaeology. And he was always reading about all of the discoveries, and he could talk about those things. I remember the piles and piles of magazines that we had. Mostly Scribner's and uhm those 38:00magazines you know, that were good. Geographic

JL: Did he stress to you that he wanted you to go to school?

PA: Oh well, it was an accepted fact. Nobody discussed it.

JL: What if you had not wanted to? Go to school?

PA: He would have been heartbroken! Now my eldest brother didn't go on to college. And he was very sorry about this, but he never really talked about it very much. That was just what he decided to do. But uh, the rest of us did, and my little sister over here, and she is little and much younger than I am, has just retired from a teach - being a teacher, and had gone on to get her Master's. I didn't, because I went from my parents to my husband. And I never worked a day in my life. Oh, I can't say that! I worked at, in the Home Ec room 39:00for supplies for 25 cents an hour one summer. (More laughing)

JL: Big Wages?

PA: I thought it was GREAT!! I didn't have to work, but they want - needed somebody so--

JL: Were you closer to one parent than the other?

PA: No, I think not. They were different. Different but together, and there was no favoritism in our family either way, and whenever we went to either one of them we received what we needed, in guidance or whatever, but it was never, never any big discussion.

JL: You mentioned that your Mother was ah interested, or involved in politics. Was she at all involved in this Women's Suffrage Movement?

PA: Oh no. Not at all in that. She wouldn't have been that aggressive, because 40:00those women who were, were very aggressive. Of course she believed, and my Father did to, in the women's vote, because women are intelligent. Just as intelligent as men. And SHOULD have these things. Like I'm not a Woman's Libber either. I think some of the women have done an awful job with their boisterous attitudes, but I certainly think that if you are doing the same job that John Jones is doing, you should have the same pay. That sort of thing, but to become uh I don't want women to become mannish. I think that women are made probably the most important beings in all the world, and we should be proud of it.

JL: More important than men then? You mean more important than men?

PA: Oh NO!!! I mean they're so important that they shouldn't try to be like men 41:00-we're not supposed to be the same. But I don't think we should take the place of men. I'll never forget one time, when I said to my husband, Oh it must have been about, he's been gone 12 years, must have been about 20 years ago -Ed you know it's so funny so many, several of my contemporaries are going to work. And he looked so surprised, and he said "Would you want to go to work?" I said Why NO. Why would I want to work, you are such a wonderful provider. I have everything in the world that a woman could want. And he shed Tears over it! A man's pride is hurt lots of times, when the women are trying to do and I think the men are, I think that, course maybe I'm too old fashioned, but I think men take pride in taking care of their families. Maybe one of the reasons that there 42:00are so many uhm wrong children in trouble, and it, so many of em are getting into trouble, and we have great bodies of people working with this kind of thing all the time, homes for them, and all kinds of things, is because the mommies aren't at home. Loving them, and teaching them, and being the example. I don't think there's any question about it. I just read, I read these things because it interests me, the papers are so full of it. There are thousands of illegitimate babies, young girls, Why haven't they ever been taught the beauty of this kind of thing, rather than 'Just do anything you please to do.' I don't understand these things. There's nothing wrong about having a baby, except it's not fair to 43:00the child to not have parents! I don't know, I don't know how it's going to be, I mean I don't know anything about it. But I'm sorry because every baby we had and everything about them was pure joy! The happiest time in my life was when I was rocking my babies and singing with them - WITH THEM. My husband would be out doing the chores, we had a big back porch at the farm, and he says "I can hear you clear out to the barn." We had 2 babies when I was almost 40. Our babies were far apart, and uhm we did this because we had such a big family. We inherited my Mother's family, my Father, 2 brothers and a sister. And we had them until they were all gone, and so we spaced our own children 6 year apart. Until the last two and they were right together, I wanted twins but couldn't 44:00have them. Didn't have em. And so there they were. A little boy and a little girl. I had one under each arm all the time. (Chucking) I just loved it. We didn't have much money, but we didn't need it.

JL: Well so, that's why I asked how did you uhm, believe in what was good and bad. I mean how did you, how did your parents impart this knowledge? Compared to today? Even children from Mothers and Fathers turn out badly sometimes.

PA: Oh Yes. Oh sure.

JL: How was it that your parents taught?

PA: Well I think that sometimes these things are inherited tendency. Uhm that goes way back. Sometimes there is a, a uhm, characteristic in the family that sort of ah, you'll see. Oh yes - his Grandfather did these things. And this, and 45:00I'm sure that this had something to do with inherited tendencies. But I believe that if the parents are honest and honorable, don't try to get by if they see a police slow down if they see the policeman - little things like this - just honorable whether the policeman is there or not. Stay within the driving limits. Just little things like that. I can't tell you, but I knew that you couldn't hire either one of my parents to do anything dishonest, or wrong. I knew that, and I doubt if there was ever discussed.

JL: Were your brothers and sisters all this way also?

PA: Yes - all of us adored our parents. I have one brother who was a very wonderful musician. He did not finish, he finished High School but he didn't go on to college. And he never made of himself what he could have. We were sorry 46:00about that. Head of the music department, Mrs. Petrie (?) told me one time that she would rather teach a person who wanted to learn to play than a genius, because they won't practice. I used to sit on the piano bench when I was teaching my brother to play, because you see we took my Mother's family, and I, we brought them up to. And I'd sit there and cry, while he was, I was trying to get him to practice. But no, he didn't want to practice, and yet, he could play everything! It was so easy for him that it, he just take hold of an instrument and play it. And he played in a very remunerated band for years, but he wasn't well educated.

JL: What was the name of this brother? Which brother was it?

PA: It was my youngest brother. Winthrop, and he was a darling. I'll show you a 47:00little poem that he wrote, one time. He was so gifted, but this you find in gifted people lots of times. They are uhm, kind of one sided.

JL: Did you spend most of your time with your, with your brothers and sisters, or did you have other friends?

PA: Oh, I had lots of chums. I had chums. In school, and of course we walked everywhere because there wasn't any other transportation except a horse and buggy. And

JL: You walked to Corvallis then?

PA: When we lived out here on the farm, sure I walked to Corvallis to school. Was 3 miles. Well that was nothing! Why, these youngsters around here drive a car down to Corvallis High School, and then they jog for exercise. (Both laugh!) They do! I see them all the time! Course we have lots of joggers along here. But 48:00mostly this neighborhood is very, very interesting. There are quite a few retired people living along here, and most of the retired people, and the college professors who live along here, walk over to the campus.

JL: It's odd, isn't it?

PA: Yeah.

JL: Do you think your Mother would have agreed with the Women's Suffrage Movement, or what do you think she

PA: Oh well, she agreed that they should have the vote. But I doubt if she agreed with uhm, and of course my Mother didn't believe in drinking or anything like that, and uh these women who were so prominent, in this movement, did everything. They went into the saloons, and everything you know. Ah I'm sure my Mother didn't approve of some of the methods probably. I never heard her say so.

JL: What do you remember about Abigail Scott Duniway? Was one of the women...

PA: Just the name. I just uh, I was so young I guess I didn't pay much attention 49:00to it. And ever since I can really remember things, women have been voting, you know. And I believe in it so thoroughly. I think that it takes a balance to do the things right, and lots of times, and most of the time, a good share of the time, a woman's viewpoint is very different from a man's. And we need both of them.

JL: Would your Father consider your or your mother's opinion if he-- Oh Yes. And especially my Mother's. Oh yes, and mine, too. He was a very wonderful friend of mine, my Father was. All of those years that we had him, probably 20 years at the farm, uh he was one of the best friends I ever had. And you never really, you never really know your parents until you're grown. They're parents, but he 50:00was my friend. And I heard my sister say the same thing. That he was a friend after she was grown. Well, you understand them better, and you see life in a different way. My Father was a great walker, in both ways. His name was Walker but he used to walk. Miles a day, and he never came home that he didn't have a little bunch of wild flowers or leaves of something for me. He knew I loved them, and it was, he knew that I'd like it. We didn't have to talk about all those things.

JL: What kind of things did you do as a family together then? In Corvallis here?

PA: Well uh you mean after we went to the farm, or

JL: Oh - - what did you do with your Mother and Father?

PA: My Mother's family? Well, of course, after we were school age, we were always going to school, you know. And riding the, uh, you know people used to 51:00have so much family work. It took so long, to do all of the things that were done in a family. Like the dishes and the meals, and the washing and the ironing. The irons heated on the wood stove, and all of those things, that there really wasn't a lot of leisure time, I always think about this, and I see in The Oregonian, the page labeled Leisure. People have so much,(I'm afraid to pull that for fear I'll unravel), (Laughing) Makes me think of a young couple that was together and he saw a thread on her shoulder, so he pulled it, but it didn't (Really laughing) she got home and found herself without her top. I shouldn't a said that! (More laughing) I don't know, we read together an awful lot, my mother helped me with my sewing, until I made all of my clothes and all of my 52:00grandchildren's clothes. And my children's, uh, I don't know, people didn't think, my Dad was always making swings for us, and

JL: How 'bout the Circus?

PA: How 'bout what?

JL: Did your family go to the Circus?

PA: Oh, always went to the Circus. And uh when we were little, there were lots of circuses. Every year, and then there were other things. When we lived in California, there was Chinese New Year's, we had Chinese students in school you know, and they used to come and see us, and bring us Chinese presents. This kind

JL: What kind of things - What was the Chinese New Year like?

PA: Oh it's a big celebration, with an awful lot of fireworks and everything. And then my father went to Summer School every summer in Berkeley, and uh the last time he went was right after the earthquake, in 1906. And he took me with him. And I'll never forget it. Tens of thousands of refugees living in Golden 53:00Gate Park. We stayed at the St. Francis Hotel, and I had 2 Aunts who were also going to Berkeley each year, because they were teachers. And they were in the classes, and he took me right with him to the classes. But the devastation that whole city, when we lived in Hanford, south of San Francisco, and we couldn't stand up in our house, down there, during the earthquake.

JL: Is that right?

PA: And my Father said, "We'll hear from this today." And we did, about the devastation. There were many friends of ours in San Francisco that we never heard from again. Ah, and he helped organize the first carload - train carload- of bread to go to the refugees, because there were so many of them.

JL: How'd he happen to do that?

PA: Oh, because they didn't have anything. They were all displaced persons. 54:00Thousands and thousands

JL: Well how did HE happen to organize this?

PA: Oh because he was so interested, and such a, he was a public citizen you know. Interested in everything that went on. He was always in meetings uh, board meetings and things like that, that he was interested in. You won't use all this -

JL: What kind of, what do you remember about the earthquake? I mean when you went to San Francisco. Can you remember any sea

PA: The earthquake was in April and we went to San Francisco in June. For him to go to school. Summer school. And I remember the terr - course we had often gone to San Francisco. We had a very dear Aunt and Uncle living in Alameda, and we were there every summer practically, to visit. And uh, oh I remember, I'll never forget the devastation that San Francisco had. It was whole blocks and blocks of 55:00buildings just lying all over the ground. And they had a terrible time with vandalism at that time. That was a first of this kind of thing I had ever heard of. People would cut off hands to get the jewelry and things like that. 'Cause there were so many people killed, you know. It was a, really a devastating thing. But I was old enough that I remember it very distinctly. And we always went out to Golden Gate Park. And there those were, thousands and thousands of little white tents, for people to live in. Who had lost their homes.

JL: Is the St. Francis Hotel in San Francisco?

PA: Yes. Yes, and it's still there.

JL: It wasn't affected by the earthquake?

PA: Well it probably was somewhat, but I can't remember that it was. But that's where we stayed. And it's still there. Somebody

JL: That's, isn't that a VERY NICE Hotel?

56:00

PA: Yes. Yes. It's probably been renovated several times since the earthquake, you know. Can't tell.

JL: How did he get over to Berkeley then? He had to commute every day?

PA: Well how did we get? Probably by, uh, streetcar.

JL: How did he get across the Bay?

PA: Oh, you always went by ferry! Uhm, during the San Francisco Fair, in 1915, my husband was a, he wasn't my husband then - he was my boyfriend - he was in college and I was in High School, and he was a guide in the Oregon Building. And he used to come over on the ferry and get me in Alameda, and take me back to the Fair. And I have pictures of us. It was so much fun. We'd just -did San 57:00Francisco! (More chuckles) OH it was FUN! But you always have to cross on the ferry.

JL: And that was a commute that he did every single day then? To go to classes?

PA: Oh, to go to classes. But we didn't stay in Alameda. We stayed in San Fra -Oh yes, that's right. To go to Berkeley. Now I don't remember how we got to Berkeley. I don't remember what you have to do. I think we went by streetcar. We wouldn't have had any other mode of transportation. But from uh, from Alameda to San Francisco we went by ferry.

JL: That's very different now.

PA: Oh yes, I know it. Uh huh.

JL: Well did you travel much as a family? You didn't go to the coast?

PA: Uh huh. Oh no. One time, my Father used to tell about, when they took the whole family went to a place called Mineral Cave. And I don't remember anything about it. I was too young I guess. No we used to go to my Grandfather's at Los 58:00Gatos for most of our summer vacations (Clock Gonging in background)

JL: How 'bout when you were living in Corvallis. Did you ever leave this area, and go someplace else?

PA: A onetime - no - we didn't, no we stayed. You know, people didn't go on so many vacations. We enjoyed our homes and there wasn't a lot of money. And just nothing about it. People didn't have very much money. My parents didn't have very much, and uh, Ed and I never had very much either. Ed and I went on trips when the Union Building sent him east, then he would take me with him. And we had some joyous trips. And then uh, one of the most wonderful trips we ever had, was uhm, when the White House called in all of the Medal - Congressional Medal 59:00of Honor winners. And we went by plane, the only plane trip I've ever had we went by plane to Washington D.C. And we had a very wonderful time that time, because they really extended themselves to, to entertain us and show us an awfully nice time. I'll show you a picture. But my husband was already quite frail at that time, and it was close to retirement.

JL: Well what, when you were young and in High School, what did you want to be? When you grew older? Did you want to work or were you--

PA: Never thought about it. Uh uh.

JL: Didn't have any aspirations to

PA: No. No. I, I never thought of it. I loved school. Every minute of my school 60:00life I just loved, and I took the subjects that I wanted to take. And I loved college. And I started going with Ed when I was a senior in High School. He was a junior in college.

JL: How did you meet him?

PA: He arranged a blind date!

JL: He arranged it?

PA: Yeah. HE was boarding at a house down where the library is, and uh, the girl whose mother was the boarding house keeper, was a friend of mine in High School And he had her have me come to dinner. So that was when I met him. I thought he was an old man. Oh, not an old man - but I thought he was lots older. He was really only 19 then. And I was 17. But uhm, he had been in college already 4 61:00years. His senior year was his 5th year, because when he started to Oregon State, his 2 sisters, they had an inheritance, and his 2 sist - older sisters and this in one of em, brought him down with them. He was only 15. Uh High School graduation was not required then. And so, that's when he started college.

JL: What did your parents thing about dating at that age?

PA: Oh it was fine. I started dating when I was 12 years old.

JL: 12 YEARS OLD!

PA: Yea. Mostly going to Christian endeavor. The church, but we'd go in a group, but I had my special friend. Oh Sure. And I'll never forget one time when he took me to a show, we went early, and his money was all in pennies. Nickels and pennies and he dropped em. Right OUTSIDE of the window you know. That was the--the boy I was with! (Jennifer and Ethel CRACKING UP!) I'll never forget. We 62:00scrambled all over the sidewalk picking up our money.

JL: Your parents didn't think that was too young?

PA: Oh NO! This was a good boy. Uh huh. And I knew the difference between a boy who was good and a boy who wasn't. And I didn't allow them to take any advantages of me, you know, and they knew that. In fact, oh I'm talking too much! When I was uhm, a senior in High School, I was President, of the senior class. And that, I had one friend who just called me, uh, a Suffragette or something' like that, you know. I can't remember what he called me. But anyway, uh, the boy I was going with and I liked him very much, I guess he was, I guess we were juniors,

[tape break]

PA: It was funny. Uhm he was on the football team. But somebody had a beer party 63:00which they didn't have in those days. And he went, and so he was taken off the football team, and because I was president, why they wanted me to sign the petition to get him back on, because he was such a good football player. And I wouldn't sign it. No Sir. He went to a beer party. And uh so, ah the Principal came to my parents, and told them about it. He was so pleased, and they were so pleased 'cause I was going with the boy. And he was a handsome, tall, dark and handsome. Another thing I was gonna tell you about. Talking about beer parties, you see people didn't do those things. Ah when Ed was in college, one day he took me to uh Convocation (?) I think it was Convocation, May have been a 64:00student body meeting, but I think it was convocation. And it was held in the Woman's Old Gym, which is the Playhouse. And the President, I think he was the President of the Student Body, anyway 2-3 boys had to get up and apologize to the Student Body because they had been on a beer party. That's right! That was in College. You see, people didn't do those things!

JL: Why not?

PA: Because they didn't believe in drinking. Alcoholic beverages. It wasn't acceptable. I've never had a drink in my life!

JL: You haven't?

PA: No! I go to banquets and things, but I never participate in that! Cause I don't believe in it. I think that anybody that supports drinking supports all the death, more deaths on the highway than all the wars we have ever fought. 65:00Because, such a large percentage of the deaths on the highway are due to drunken drivers. Now I know that sounds awful to you, because the times are so different, but I feel very strongly about this.

JL: What about just in moderation?

PA: Yes, but who is this? We have millions of alcoholics in this country, we have 300 thousand 10 year old alcoholics. Isn't that terrible? I can hardly STAND IT! AND - I don't believe in spending the money that way. We have starving people, who could use that money.

JL: What do you think should be done?

PA: I don't know. I don't know any of the answers, except for people to just Not Drink - Not Buy it - Not support it! It's the only way I know. And I'd have no ideas about it. But I can't condone it at all. I have read over and over that we 66:00kill more people thru drunken driving than all the wars we have ever fought. And if you have ever seen a man - my husband was in the hospital, in Georgia for quite a long time, and I went over, I took the street car and went over there every day to see him. We were living in Atlanta, and if you could see what I have seen - the results of war, boys without faces, boys without arms, boys without hands, without feet, without legs, boys whose minds are gone, and then to think that drinking causes more of that, than all the wars we have fought, I can't stand it! MMMMMM! And I don't believe, I have a better time when I go to things than anybody I know. I don't have to have that to have a good time. 67:00(Laughing) Do you think I'm silly?

JL: I think that's just your optimism. Exceptional forces! Why do you think you're different?

PA: What'd you say?

JL: Why do you think you're different?

PA: I'm not different.

JL: People don't feel like they can have a good time without alcohol. And you say you can?

PA: Well - you know, we do lots of things. People do lots of things just because somebody else does it. I have read many times, People are Sheep. Sure! Uh I wouldn't have thought of carrying that backpack on my back when I was in school OH! That?! I think it's wonderful. But you see, when somebody started, then everybody did it. Sure,

JL: What kind of things were popular in High School when you were going to high school? Like -that were "modern" That were different from your parents' 68:00generation. Well, let's see, 'Course a lot of things were different.

JL: What were some of the fads?

PA: Oh - I remember one time I wore a black velvet ribbon around my neck and my Dad said "Daughter - why do you have that? Is it holding you together?" No, it's just the style. (Laughing) Oh I don't know. I can't think, but, um, there were lots of things. Of course we did our hair different way, and what was uh, where did you go for dates? In Corvallis. OH we went to the show, or we picnicked. Now, when I started going with Ed, I was 17. We went for hikes. We went, did lots of hiking.

69:00

JL: Where would you go hiking?

PA: Oh, all around here, where they'd be - we used to go to uhm Sulfur Springs, which is about 12 miles out of town.

JL: What would you do there?

PA: Just take a picnic lunch, and sit on the bank, and visit.

JL: Why Sulfur Springs?

PA: Well it's about a twelve mile hike, and it was fun. And now, one thing they used to do at Oregon State and I'm sorry they don't do it now, because it was really fun. I suppose the reason they don't is because so many people go all the time to the coast, but you see, I so seldom went to the coast, they had an excursion, annual excursion for students. And the whole train was absolutely loaded with students who went to the coast, probably.

JL: Do you ever have a negative experience? It sounds like everything you've done is very pleasant to you and that's wonderful.

70:00

PA: Because I love it. My negative experiences have been the loss of my dear ones. Those are the only ones I've ever had. I have a hard time getting over them. I have to have a lot of faith in God, to be able to accept these things at all. Because, well husband, son, Mother, Father, you know. Brothers, all 3 of my brothers are gone. And it's, these are the only things that I've had. Otherwise I've had a wonderful, wonderful life, I'm grateful for so much. I can't think of anything in this world that I could have had ah, during my life, that I didn't have, that I would want, except for my husband to still be with me. And uh, this makes an altogether different life. A widow is uhm, a different kind of person. 71:00I don't, we used to go lots of going. We went to dances, lots of the times he couldn't dance of course, because he was on crutches a lot of the time, but when he wasn't - we loved it and we, we uh belonged to a formal bridge club. And uh, we did lots of things that were lots of fun. And well you see, I don't do those things now. I have had an escort for the last OH 5 or 6 years, 7 or 8 years probably, an old friend whose wife passed away,

JL: Is that T.J. Starker?

PA: Yes. But uh, I haven't been able to go with him now you see since I've been ill, and everything's been happening. We've had a very nice time together. I loved his wife very dearly. Uh, he's a fine man. But he is also quite 72:00incapacitated. He has a hard time walking. But he's a good man, and we, he's just a little older than I am, I think he was 88 the other day. And I love his family. They're so darling to me. Jean sent me a whole big pan of vegetables yesterday. Beautiful! Tomatoes and uh cucumbers, and all. They're so good to me. And I've enjoyed him very much. He doesn't drink either. So the 2 of us sit and wait for the Happy Hour to be over you know. (Chuckling!!!) And we're probably happier than any of 'em.

JL: What kind of things do you do with him?

PA: Just visit. Oh we used to go for long, long rides. Up, see they own so much property. And he would open the gates and we'd go way up - sometimes take a 73:00lunch, but usually we'd just go for long rides, and I loved it. I loved riding up there in the hills, woods, in the hills. SO BEAUTIFUL, most people don't even know 'bout it you know. Course they keep their gates locked. But he doesn't drive very much anymore.

JL: So this was after your husband had died?

PA: Oh yes. Uh huh. But the 4 of us were very good friends. But he, he's been very kind to me. He just called my a few minutes ago - wanted me to go to the Fair with him tonight, but I'm not supposed to do all that kind of thing quite yet. And I, I've been trying to be a good girl. I been trying to do what the Dr. told me to do. You know. Not eat wait, and uhm, not eat sugar, and not eat Fat!.. But she gives me so much food that I'm just sticking out!

74:00

JL: Doesn't look like it to me! You look great to me! (Both Laughing) Well, you were telling me about the Annual Excursion.

PA: Yes. And that was the most FUN! That train would go to Newport. And

JL: Tell me about it from the very beginning. I assume that you went with your boyfriend, with your

PA: Yes - uh huh. Ed used to pay for my way. I don't know how much it cost or anything, I have a couple of pictures of us taken over there. And this was so much fun, because that train would be absolutely loaded with college kids. And we'd go over there for a whole day. Play around on the beach, in the sand and everything, and then it came home in the evening. And it was LOTS of Fun and that was

JL: You had, you reserved the whole train then?

PA: The whole train. And they always made a Great Big funny to-do when we'd go thru the tunnels you know. They'd used to be tunnels the train used to go thru. 75:00The man, the fellows would howl, oh and do all kinds of things, but oh it was so much fun! I'm sorry they don't - but probably it's because everybody goes to the beach so often. You see, in those days that was the only way we could go. By train. Unless you wanted to drive a horse and buggy all the way.

JL: That would be a rough ride!

PA: I'll say. Uh huh.

JL: What else did, did uh your peers do in Corvallis?

PA: Well, you mean on dates? Well we did lots more dancing than you do now.

JL: That wasn't forbidden in your family or church?

PA: OH NO! Oh No. We had every Saturday afternoon there was a band informal at the college. And they were so much fun and then of course, Ed played on the football team, and this was always, we went to all the games. And I always had reserved seats because he was on the team you know.

JL: Would you go even before you were dating him? Was that common to go to 76:00events on the campus? For the local people to go to events on the campus?

PA: OH - I wasn't particularly interested, you mean before I went to college?

JL: Before you knew your husband.

PA: No. Just when I knew him. I went on the campus to things, there was quite a bit of rivalry between the college girls and the high school girls, because a number of the college boys went with high school girls. And I have a clipping someplace that was in the Barometer, about uh something about the boys that went with High School girls, you know. (Laughing) But then I don't remember much about that. No, we didn't do anything on the campus. We had our own social affairs, dances...

JL: How was that manifested? The, uh--

PA: Oh probably a little belligerent notes in the paper. But nothing very much because I think most of the girls who wanted dates, had them, you know. The 77:00girls were very pretty. They looked different of course. I'll never forget the first girl that I saw with her hair down, because nobody would have done that!! All of us did our hair up, you know. On our heads.

JL: In college or high school?

PA: Both.

JL: What did you think of that?

PA: The long hair? I can remember one man saying "OH-" Not like yours, but when it used to be kinda long and straight, and down like that and sometimes the girls still do, and he said "Boy, that sure looks like an unmade bed, doesn't it?" (Both laughing) Something like that. I don't remember, and I think it's very pretty and very becoming and my grand-daughters have pretty hair down, I have 17 great-grandchildren.

JL: Seventeen?

PA: Uh huh. Would you like to have me tell you about my great?

78:00

JL: Not yet. Let's wait until we get to that. We - you haven't even gone to college in this thing yet.

PA: I had a wonderful time in college. Although I had only uh, most of it was when Ed was overseas. He was overseas 2 years, and he was in this country longer than that, but I didn't see him for 2 years.

JL: Well how did you decide to go to O.A.C.? Why did you decide?

PA: I lived here.

JL: That was the reason that you didn't desire to leave?

PA: Well it never occurred to me to go anyplace else. I wouldn't have had the money anyway. No I wan - we lived over where Snell is.

JL: Who did?

PA: My family, on south 13th.

JL: I thought they lived on a farm.

PA: Yea but they moved in.

JL: Well why did they move in?

PA: They moved in because, probably because I was going to, gonna go to college, or something. I don't remember exactly. No wait a minute. They moved from that farm to Washington, and then moved back and when we moved back, we lived over on 79:00S. 13th, which is, that's MU East isn't it?

JL: 13th?

PA: Uh hum. Right down in there, below 15th. Well anyway, it was right there by the dorm. And that was, all streets and we lived just a, the 3rd house from the corner, and I walked to, course to all my classes. Now I lived in the sorority house,

JL: Wait a minute. Why did you move to WA? Washington Street or Washington State?

PA: No. My Father uh, decided that we would, he would like to go up, about 30 miles out of Vancouver. And he traded our farm for a farm up there, and then we lived there about a year, but uhm, there were things against it. I've forgotten what it is, but I think mostly, there was more roughness up there. It was near 80:00Vancouver, where there was barracks and everything, and so they moved back down here and we, he bought, he had 2 houses over on S. 13th. We rented one and lived in one.

JL: Well, I'm, understand, now you had finished high school, and then moved up to Washington?

PA: No, that was before.

JL: Oh, you hadn't met Ed then?

PA: Uh, no, not then. Then we moved back here. No, I didn't meet him until uh, until I was a Senior in High School here. I went through High School here. So - uh I just loved it. I lived in a sorority house, lived in the dormitory, a year - Waldo Hall-

JL: Well didn't you live at home then? When you went to school?

PA: I lived at home most of the time, and loved it. I preferred it to any other place that I lived. My Mother had supper ready for me when I got home, it was quiet for me to study, and I just loved it.

81:00

JL: Well, who did you first talk to when you came to OAC? What college administrator in order to get registered for college?

PA: Oh, well now in those days we just registered. We chose our courses and we just registered. And I just taking Home Economics, majoring in dietetics, minoring in uhm pre-nursing

JL: How did you choose these subjects?

PA: Well just, that's what appealed to me.

JL: What, who influenced you to study these subjects?

PA: I don't know that anybody influenced. I was interested in them, and uh when I was enrolled, then the Dean of Home Economics, Dean Milam, who was a young dean then, asked me, she says "Now I want you to take Home Ec management" No, 82:00that wasn't it. "I want you to take Institutional Management" and I said uh, but Dean Milam, I'm not going to ever manage an institution. I'm in love and I'm going to get married. And she sat there and wept. (Chuckling) And she said "Well then honey, you don't need to take it, then do you?" And then afterwards, she said to me "Boy you've been managing an institution ever since you've been married."(Really laughing). We had so many people. I can't remember after we went to the farm, ever having fewer than 8 people around our table, and usually about 14. Well, we had my Mother's family you see. And Grandfather Allworth.

JL: Well so your family moved to Washington. Did you like it there yourself?

PA: Oh it was alright, but I wasn't, I started High School in Vancouver. And uh it was much rougher than Corvallis, because there were barracks there you know.

83:00

JL: Rougher in what sense?

PA: Well - there were saloons and things like that and we saw drunken people on the street. Now they don't have that any more, of course, but my Father didn't like that. So we moved back to Corvallis.

JL: What did your Mother think?

PA: Oh I don't know. She, she was expecting a baby and well uh, whatever my Father liked, she liked, too. That seems strange to you doesn't it? There was perfect understanding there. Perfect understanding. (Several chuckles)

JL: That's not so much the case today. Women are more--

PA: Yes, I know. More assertive and there's lots of talk about assertiveness, and aggressiveness. I noticed that the even have classes in this. But uhm, and unless it's something that really needs to be worked out, I don't really believe 84:00in it. Because this is self-seeking usually. And I don't believe in self-seeking--

JL: To be assertive is self-seeking?

PA: --I want to find my own in another's good, in other words.

JL: To be assertive is self-seeking?

PA: It's alright to be assertive, if, but not TOO much. Maybe too much assertiveness is uhm, is aggressiveness. I think that we need to be assertive in, on some subjects. I feel assertive in, a, things about family life, children, our responsibilities, and that sort of thing. But if it's something 85:00just for me, I don't feel assertive. I have absolutely no personal ambition. I never have had. I don't want to be anybody. Just myself. Does that seem silly?

JL: No, it doesn't seem silly!

PA: Well it, I'm sure it must be because I don't think they're teaching those things now. I think that uh, some women today and maybe in your day, would have done well in other professions than being a wife. For example, what it like engineering, there are women that have that aptitude. And that's where this movement has changed. Oh, I don't think there's any question about it. I think that's true and I think women do a beautiful job in the careers, some of the careers that they choose and uh I, I don't disapprove. It just wouldn't do for 86:00me. Cause I'm not that kind of a person.

JL: Had it ever occurred to you to go to the so-called men's professions, like Engineering or Forestry or anything like that?

PA: No. No, but I heard a, an Engineer say one time, that he wished that women would take more engineering courses because a good many of the household things are made for women to use and the men can't decide just the best way to do it. To make them, and he was talking principally of things like electric irons, and Oh uhm, a, beaters and appliances, and he said you know "The women are the ones that know what these should be like but, no I never have, I don't have a mathematical mind, I'm sorry to say. My parents both did and they SO enjoyed, 87:00and architecture too. They used to just love to plan their eventual home together. And it was really quite a home. I can even remember what it looked like. They didn't know whether they'd ever have it or not, but they enjoyed doing this together. And drew the pictures and everything you know. But uh, my brothers were mathematical geniuses, all 3 of them. But and my sister does very well because she's, she went on to teach and she's kept up with things, more than I have. She knows everything about business. That's what she taught.

JL: Well, you started dating Mr. Allworth when you were a senior in High School, did you know from that time on that you were going to marry him?

PA: No. Uh huh. I, Ed was a very wonderful person. Whatever we did, he planned 88:00ahead to the last detail, so everything was smooth. Everything was nice and he took such wonderful care of me. Uh, I hadn't thought about marrying at that stage. Because you see I was only 17. And girls didn't marry really, well at least I wasn't thinking about it, but uh, I didn't, of course when he left. It was uh my first year at college. Then we were engaged. And I was 2 years without him. I don't think that uh, lots, we had lots of married students coming back after the War. Boys that we went to school with. And then they came back and were married of course. That was the first of the married students. Because

89:00

JL: What attracted you to him at the very beginning? What did--?

PA: He was a perfect gentleman. He didn't do anything that I knew of that was wrong. He took perfect care of me. He was gentle. And very refined.

JL: Did he have similar characteristics as your Father?

PA: In some ways, because he turned out to be quite a disciplinarian. And my Father was, too. A disciplinarian. We were disciplined. I don't mean by that that we were punished. But we had rules. And we knew we had rules, and we lived by them. And - but he was very dis - was very uh, he had rules in our home, too. 90:00And our children had to live by them. They had to get in at a certain times uh, when we finally were able to have a 2nd car, which was a 1930 Packard, and I noticed the other day, Oh no it was probably 6 months age, that one sold for $50,000 dollars. (Laughing) A leading floral company had it and they sold it. Ed bought it. I can't remember what we paid for it. But I finally had a car to drive, and I would take my 2 babies and the 2 Grandfathers and all the neighbor kids because it was a 7 passenger. And we'd go to town. (Laughing) It was SO MUCH FUN!

JL: Why did you study dietetics and pre-nursing?

PA: Well I suppose that I was encouraged to do so. I, I can't imagine why because in this pre-nursing, and I was very, uh, interested in this, there were, 91:00was lots of physical therapy and this kind of thing, and massage, Swedish massage, and everything, and I don't know why. Guess it's just because it was the thing to do, because I wasn't thinking about what I was going to do to earn a living.

JL: And you had decided by that time to get married to Mr. Allworth then?

PA: Ah by the time I was uh in college, we were engaged, uh huh. Uh hum.

JL: Where did you stay when you went, when you started at O.A.C? Where did you live?

PA: Oh I lived on 13th Street.

JL: You lived with your family?

PA: I lived with my family and then, then they moved out to Philomath.

JL: This was, how many children were still at home? How many brothers and sisters?

PA: Five. Out the West Hills Road. And I stayed in the house, and the dorm, but 92:00I loved living at home better than any place where I lived. I lived 2 years in the Gamma Phi House, and at that time, the Gamma Phi, when I lived in the, that house, it was down on 4th Street. We had to start from home about 10 minutes early to get up to campus, cause course we walked all the time. Where the old Safeway used to be, and where now, oh behind Benton County Bank, new Benton County Bank. That's where the old Gamma Phi House was. That's one of them. The uh, before that, after that I mean, it's the house down on Jefferson St. Isn't that funny, I can't think what fraternity bought it. It's red. Part brick and it's down on uh, 7th and Jefferson I believe. On the corner. And that was uh, 93:00the Gamma Phi House after that. But I didn't ever live in that one.

JL: I read that you were one of the more popular girls on campus. During that time.

PA: Oh, well, you mustn't believe everything you read.

JL: OH!

PA: It was wonderful. I loved it!

JL: Why would they think, why would they

PA: I don't know. Just cause they didn't have anything else to write about.

JL: OH!

PA: Yea that's right. Just live the newspapers. Well, I think that probably because if they felt that way. Because I was so full of joy and so full of love for everything, and had such a wonderful time! All the time! I don't know any other reason.

JL: I guess that's reason enough! Most people aren't like that!!

PA: I, I don't think it's true, there were lots of girls prettier and 94:00everything, had more money and everything, but we had such a wonderful time.

JL: What do you remember about Margaret Smith? [Snell?]

PA: Memorial Union building, to raise the money and he accepted. The first thing he did was take a course in public speaking. He was a shy person. And the next thing he did, we were living in Portland, the next thing he did was come down to Corvallis, and he found a home for us to live in. He had it entirely renovated. It was Dean Snell's old home. And it's down on, off Monroe, right back of the Newman Center. In the middle of the block. The darlingest old place you ever saw, and that's where we started our life in Corvallis together.

JL: Did you know her personally at all?

95:00

PA: NO. I didn't know her at all. She was gone by the time, uh, she wasn't the Dean when I was in school. She'd been gone a long time. I don't know whether she was, whether she had died or not, but she wasn't the Dean of Home Economics. But that was her home, and if you ever have a chance, you should go back in there, and look at that place. It doesn't, I went in one time, it doesn't look like it used to, but it's in the middle of the block. It had NO outside entrance except you go back - by the house, by a big apartment house, and uh, we just LOVED it. Dean Snell was quite a woman. It had an immense living room. And a small dining room, and kitchen, then you went up and half-way up the stairs was the toilet because they never put the toilet on the same floor as the bedrooms. Heaven forbid, and then you went on up the stairs, and there were several bedrooms, up 96:00there. And I had a baby while we lived in that house. And we just LOVED that place! And my little sister and all of the family lived with us when we lived up there.

JL: Had she, uh, designed this house herself?

PA: I don't know whether she did or not, but when I was digging around, one time in back yard, I can't remember what I was, oh planting flowers probably, I found that little tiny vase there on the right hand end of the uh, mantle, and it looked as if it had come, Oh it was very old and it's very small, clear down here in front of St. Francis, and it looks as if it had come from someplace where she had been on a trip, or something, you know. I remember that so well, but we loved that house.

JL: Well, was her philosophy of teaching people to keep well, rather that curing 97:00the disease. In other words, prevent the disease. From happening department in home economics?

PA: You know, I don't know about that, but Edith, when Edith went to school, she finished, graduated in 1910, when, Dean Snell was there. When she was in school.

JL: Maybe I should talk to her, too.

PA: You'd have a hard time. You could write to her. Sometime when you come, if you'd like to, she'd be glad to talk to you I'm sure.