Veronica Vega Oral History Interview, June 12, 2017

TIAH EDMUNSON-MORTON: Ok, we are rolling.

VERONICA VEGA: So, my name is Veronica Vega. I was born May 9, 1979. We are in my office at Deschutes Brewery, the production facility. And it's June 12 in 2017, I guess the year is.

TEM: [Laughs.] Usually there'd be context.

VV: [Laughs.]

TEM: So, where were you born?

VV: I was born in Ventura, California. So it's south of Santa Barbara, north of LA. So it's an orange and avocado growing region in California.

TEM: Did you grow up fully there? Like, you were born there, you grew up there...

VV: Yep, yep! My parents raised avocados. You know, my mom still lives on the three-acre avocado little farm. Stayed there until I went to college, which was at Humboldt State, so then I moved to kind of progress a little north from there.

TEM: What was it like to grow up in that part of California?

VV: So, we didn't travel much, and I had the orchard, but it is kind of funny, you know I didn't know what the forest was, because it was just the avocado trees. And I remember playing in there. And the creek behind our orchard, and that was as wild as things got. And I loved being outside, and I think growing up that way instilled that. But then when I went to the forest, like, I went to Humboldt State, so when the first time I saw an actual Redwood forest, I was just overwhelmed in awe of that idea. Something that I had always just kind of dreamed about as a kid. So as southern California, you know, bustle-y, we had that pocket of nature.

TEM: So it seems like it's still like that, that kind of part of the coast. It 00:02:00feels like, not necessarily, you know, rural, but it certainly feels less dense than LA.

VV: Mm-hm. Yeah, yeah. And you know, my hometown is Santa Paula, which I never even mention because I went to school in Ventura. Ventura is the larger county. And it's an Ag town, and if you're not in Ag, then a parent or a family member or friends, I mean, somebody, works or benefits from Ag in that area. TEM: Did it feel like there was a split then, between the kind of stereotypical southern Californian, drive everywhere, buy packaged stuff, lay on the beach?

VV: Yeah, I mean, I also was raised...like, my mom was born in Mexico and came over to this country when she was 31 years old. And so, we were not only on this 00:03:00ranch but raised in that Hispanic household. And so both cultures, everything, we kind of felt different in a way. So, when it came to the beach and surfing, there's like, the surfers and the cool kids. [Laughs.] And we were just this little Mexican family, that sometimes went to the beach! Yeah, it felt like a pocket no matter what. When I go back, it does feel like you're on a highway, you're on a highway, and then you take two turns and then you're in this quiet orchard. So, it still feels very quiet at my mom's house.

TEM: Yeah. What are some of the things that you remember - food, drink, I don't know, stories - from that early elementary, middle school kind of age?

VV: Well, my mom's food for sure. My mom still expresses her love through food 00:04:00and through caring in that way. And it is obviously Mexican food. Always rice and beans in the fridge, in some stage of being boiled, baked, whatever going on! [Laughs.] Rice all the time, and nopales. My mom would raise cactus in the back, and so those were always being processed in some way. She had a freezer full of all these kinds of staple items where then she would add eggs and things to kind of play them up for the night. And she would make food for six kids, and so it was always big, big meals. And it took me a while to learn how to cook for one when I was in college, or two or three.

TEM: [Laughs.]

VV: Because that's how she taught all of us to cook.

TEM: So there are six of you.

VV: Yeah, I'm one of six kids.

TEM: What's your, what order are you?

VV: I'm in the middle. I have a sister and brother, a half-brother and sister, and they are older than I am. And then I'm the first of my mom's kids of four. Yeah. Beer-wise, my parents drank Tecate. So that was the beer that was in their fridge. And my mom was full of these Hispanic superstitions, like, window open is gonna give you a cold. And one of those was one beer in the afternoon kind of whets your appetite and helps with digestion. So she would always have a little beer in the afternoon. [Laughs.] But otherwise I wouldn't say that beer was in our culture growing up. Just, lots of Mexican food, and then big barbecues with tri-tip and stuff on the pits. And we always had a big Easter egg hunt with 00:06:00actual eggs and confetti. And all the family would come over, and we would crack the eggs on people's heads and there'd be confetti all over the ranch, but it was paper so it just kind of biodegraded. [Laughs.]

TEM: Wait, so, they're not like eggs that came from chickens?

VV: No, but the families would keep their eggs for the whole year, and take the hole on top, and they would put a sticker over it when they made the confetti eggs. But there would be piles of eggs all over the three-acre orchard. And a big mess. But yeah, Easter was the big party. But my parents have a big patio, and it was all for big barbecues of that sort.

TEM: So lots of family in that area?

VV: Extended family is very, very big. My dad was an only child, and my mom just had one sister. So immediate family not so much. But then my dad's father was 00:07:00one of eight kids, and within that family there's lots of branches that had up to eight kids. So, with Mexican families, it might be your fourth cousin, but they're just your cousin.

TEM: [Laughs.]

VV: So to that extent, yes, lots of family.

TEM: Did you grow up cooking with your mom? Was she the type of cook who liked to have company in the kitchen, or...

VV: She did almost all of it herself, I would say. I give her that credit. Now, we learned by watching and we were expected as girls to know how to make rice and the basics. But even to this day, when she comes over, I have to tell her, "No, I'm making dinner for us!" [Laughs.] I think culturally it was just her expectation or her duty, I guess. And she would barely eat at the table with us because she was serving - she would serve everybody. My dad would sit at the 00:08:00head of the table, like, waiting to be served. [Laughs.] And so, I mean it was just kind of embedded, and it didn't feel weird. It's just in reflection, you think, "Wow, my mom really lived - and still lives - at duty."

TEM: Did you start to reflect before you went to college? Or before you were an adult were there times when you were in high school where you were like...

VV: It didn't hit me, like, a ton of bricks, until I had my own family. And she always said that too. She always said, "I can't wait for you to have your own kids, because then you'll know."

TEM: [Laughs.]

VV: And so nowadays both my husband and I have careers and, you know, wanting to still have family dinners and all that, it's a lot. And I really admire what she 00:09:00did for us. And the home cooking that we've always had.

TEM: Mm-hm. Do you guys go to LA? I know you had obligations, farm obligations. But did you go to LA regularly?

VV: We rarely traveled. I mean, I remember maybe one family vacation to the Grand Canyon. But we did not vacation as a family. No, no, it was just kind of the ranch.

TEM: Are avocados something that you have to take care of regularly?

VV: Yeah, there's irrigation that you move. But we also had family pets and we were involved in 4-H, so we always had animals. So, I think the obligation was higher on the animals. You know, we'd raise pigs every year for 4-H, we had a horse and a pony and dog and cats. My sisters raised lambs. It was just a lot of 00:10:00animals that we could never call someone. I couldn't even dream of my mom calling someone to housesit. [Laughs.] It's just like, so weird.

TEM: [Laughs.] Hire in a crew! So, what were you interested in when you were in high school?

VV: Running. And I can't say academically anything really...lit a fire. I naturally got the best grades in English, so when I went to college I thought, "Oh, maybe I'll be an English major, because that seems to be easy for me." And then when I took my first biology and botany courses, that lit a fire. And it kind of felt good to finally be really interested in something academically. I don't recall feeling that way in high school.

TEM: How did you choose Humboldt State?

VV: It was the furthest north I could get with still in-state tuition.

TEM: [Laughs.]

VV: [Laughs.] I wanted to get out of southern California, and, like I said, it's 00:11:00beautiful up there! The forest and the, the magic of the Redwoods is awesome. And it felt like, the campus is old and Spanish and small, and it's kind of on the hill. This tiny little, 17,000-person town - it just felt right. You know? And I knew I was gonna put myself through school, and the community college was right there with an easy transfer program and it just lined up.

TEM: That had to be a big difference though - you weren't just going to, like, little forest. That's a pretty big jump.

VV: Yeah. I guess when you're saying interests in high school - in my junior and senior year I started backpacking, I started to figure out that being outdoors 00:12:00and kind of exploring these bigger areas, like going to the Sierras and stuff, that kind of opened my eyes to the possibility of being an outdoor enthusiast. I was ready to leave the ranch and southern California. I was excited. I wanted to learn to mountain bike and do all this stuff.

TEM: What was the food like there? What was it like to make that transition, not just to northern California but to a time when you could pick what you wanted to eat, what you wanted to drink?

VV: Yeah, I mean the biggest change for me was just eating out. You know, more than I ever had growing up. And I still cooked rice, not beans so much, but that's when I did start enjoying to make food. But to go out to sushi with your college friends, I mean that was so cool! And, you know Humboldt is very much a 00:13:00college town, and so you have all those little different restaurants. And when financial aid came you...[laughs.]

TEM: Extra sushi!

VV: You got extra sushi! Craft beer was also an introduction in that community. Even now when you go back, I should say, even back then - so this was, what, 14 years ago - there were eight craft breweries around in that tiny community. And Blue Lake Mad River Brewing Company, their brewery was like, Sierra's original brew pedal. And so they had a very rich, I think, craft culture, when I went to college. And so that's when Sierra Nevada Porter became what I packed to go camping or whatever. And it was like, oh God, this beer is delicious. But, I 00:14:00loved beer, but even then in school I didn't think that this would be my future. I met someone in my chemistry class, his name was Mike but I can't remember his last name, but he said, "Oh, I'm a bio major, but I'm going to be a brewer." I was like, "Oh, well that's cool for you, that sounds awesome!" [Laughs.]

TEM: [Laughs.]

VV: And later on, like five years ago, I ran into him at a craft brewer's conference. And it was just kind of a cool tie to make, that we went to school together. He had that vision for himself, I didn't but I kind of ended up there.

TEM: What was it about that facet of science that was interesting to you?

VV: Curiosity. I don't know, it was just so interesting. When I studied, I loved drawing plants and plant parts and labeling. I've learned that I'm kind of a 00:15:00kinetic learner so to draw, even biology, draw parts, it cemented those ideas in me. And I was really interested. So, yeah.

TEM: Who else was in classes with you? Let me back up. How long were you an English major before you switched?

VV: Two years. Basically the time before I transferred. It was at Humboldt, that first botany class, it was just so fun. And then the university, like I said, is backed up to a forest, so for these bio classes and these labs, you could go out and see things. You know, look at the fern life cycle or algae and mold, you know, right there in the forest. And the class sizes were pretty small. It was 00:16:00pretty cool. And to be surrounded with people that were also very interested, and study groups, and that kind of academic energy was so cool. Because, like I said, in high school I can't even tell you what I was interested in, because nothing...my peer group wasn't inspiring. [Laughs.] And in college I really got into a mix of bio majors that were really into it. It was fun.

TEM: Was there, did you have an interest in brewing at all?

VV: Not like the least bit. No, no. Even then I started working for ECO-Ascension Research and Consulting, and they were a consulting group that went to monitor red tree voles. And so they would climb Doug fir trees to find these little nests and basically count this threatened species. And so that kind 00:17:00of got me into the line of work of wildlife field surveying. That kind of brought together the being outside piece and the doing good work for research piece. And that was like my first real work in college. And after red tree voles I went into spotted owls.

TEM: [Laughs.] Was that what brought you to Oregon?

VV: Yeah, yeah, so I did spotted owls in northern California for about two years, and then I went to Mount Rainier National Park to do spotted owls for the season. And then went to Crater Lake. And then it kind of seemed like, whoa, is this going to be my life, where every year I have to look for a place that's soft-funded, and they might only have dollars for this research for four years, and is my work really gonna count, and the seasonality of it, and not knowing 00:18:00the next place you're gonna go...that started to feel not so great.

TEM: So that was for the National Park Service, you were within the National Park System?

VV: Yeah, but I wasn't guaranteed work, so every year I'd have to find a new place to go, if they didn't rehire. So after Crater Lake, I thought, you know, I had friends in Bend and visited here, and it just seemed like such an awesome town, I thought, I think I'm ready to find my community and make it work. I know I'm not going to be able to chase owls in Bend, probably. Maybe. I tried. When I first came here I looked for that type of work, but I thought, Ok, well, the hospital, or the brewery maybe in the lab. They might be good employers. I just did what a lot of people do in Bend, which is come here and piece together, as a bartender and plant waterer...

TEM: [Laughs.]

VV: A nanny, I did tons of little jobs, including becoming a tour guide at Deschutes Brewery.

TEM: So what year did you come to, so you started at Deschutes as a tour guide in 2006?

VV: That's right.

TEM: What year did you come to Bend?

VV: I'd say a year and a half prior to that. Yeah.

TEM: What was Bend like? What are some of the early memories that you have about coming here?

VV: Oh God. Definitely being on a bike all the time. It sounds like my dream of childhood, how it would have been, but it ended up being in my late twenties! But being almost like in a bike gang, I was with my friends...

TEM: [Laughs.]

VV: Like, storming through town, you know, on bikes going with a floaty and all this stuff. But it wasn't as populated as it was. And so you could ride in the middle of the street, it wasn't as congested and very carefree. I remember 00:20:00spending 275 dollars a month on a room, with people in Bend. It just seemed very carefree. And bikes. Lots of bikes.

TEM: That's just such an awesome picture. Bike gangs.

VV: [Laughs.]

TEM: But a bunch of nice people with floaties.

VV: Yeah! Exactly, exactly.

TEM: So, you already had exposure to craft beer at Humboldt. Did it feel different here in Bend, the beer scene or the cultural scene around food and drink?

VV: I mean, Humboldt actually felt like it had more breweries. When I first moved here, there was what, three or four? And the pub, was like the central place. So another memory is just that Monday at the pub, was kind of like a 00:21:00known. You didn't even call your friends. You just showed up Monday night, and your poor server would have to deal with your table growing and growing and growing, and you're getting cheap beers and burgs, and you just did that. You didn't even text. It's like, I'm here, no, you just look up, and see someone coming in the door. And that pub felt like that meeting place every Monday night. For sure, that was those days. But, gosh, I mean now it's grown so much. And the beer culture has too. I mean, I don't remember there being that tourist attraction for beer, specifically, back then. I mean, I think beer was a part of the culture here, and the pub was a part of my friend group's culture, but, as far as seeing the Cycle Pub, and all that, that was not here yet.

TEM: That's so funny to think of Bend without that now. But I know there's 00:22:00obviously beer tourism in Portland or in Eugene, but for some reason it feels like...

VV: Oh, I know! Yeah, it's making me feel old right now. [Laughs.]

TEM: [Laughs.] It's just, it's happened quickly.

VV: Days of yore, before Bend had beer tourism.

TEM: So, as you were thinking about piecing together jobs, and you got your job as a tour guide for Deschutes, were you thinking about being a brewer at that point?

VV: No, not even. When I walked in the door, in my mind, I wanted to be in the lab. I thought, Ok, I bring my, you know...biology skills. [Laughs.] You just 00:23:00know the language at least, and comfort in the lab. I thought I could learn beer. And, back then - I didn't know that coming in here - but back then, man, there was no turnover at the lab. If you got the lab job, it was like, you're a lifer. And I remember telling that to the person that, you know Erik Frank, who interviewed me, and I remember telling him that's my interest. I'm just getting my foot in the door. I basically, yeah, told him that. And later on he introduced me to Amanda Benson, who is head of our sensory program. And he said, "This is Veronica, she's really interested in being part of the lab." And I remember her face just, you know, cool. And later on I realized it's probably because she thought "There are no jobs in the lab!" [Laughs.] "We're good!" Now there's a lot more opportunity in the lab. There's opportunity everywhere in the brewery.

TEM: Mm-hm.

VV: But it did become apparent to me very quickly that I was not gonna get into the lab. And the brewery - I'm giving tours as I'm taking people around and 00:24:00learning the brewing process so that I could tell the story - not only did I fall in love with the company, but I fell in love with the process of making beer on this scale. And just, that excitement of, oh wow, this could be possible, I could fulfill my life dreams within, you know, this company, within beer. But, I know I would have to get a job. [Laughs.]

TEM: [Laughs.]

VV: That was the next hurdle!

TEM: Is there kind of a moment that you remember being on a tour and having, like a sort of ah-ha? Or was it sort of slow build, like, wait a minute, I am interested in this. Was there like, seeing a process?

VV: There was definitely an ah-ha. It sounds cheesy, but it's true. I read an 00:25:00article that highlighted for women and beer around Oregon. And I saw these gals, like, in their rubber boots, just kicking butt. And I just thought, I can do that, I wanna do that. And it was that one, it was that moment that I thought the next job that comes out in the cellar, I'm gonna go for. See if I can do it. And I also felt like I had the confidence from doing that work, that fieldwork, because it was really hard work. I mean we had to trudge gear all over. Like, hiking, going up streams, just harsh conditions. And, you know, even that line of work, I was always the only girl. In those teams always. And so it just didn't seem intimidating. I know I'll survive, I know I will. Just give me the 00:26:00chance, basically.

TEM: Did you feel like anybody looked at you askance when you were in the Parks Service as a woman?

VV: No, no not really. Definitely not in the Parks Service I worked in one, like, private sector, logging company. And in that company, I felt like the guys always wanted to protect me. I was just, like, I don't need protection. [Laughs.] Until I did, until I got lost. On the CV [motions talking into a phone] I need you to show me the map!

TEM: [Laughs.] Don't remember this though!

VV: [Laughs.] Yeah! And it was kind of a nice way. But not in the Park Service. Not really here [Deschutes Brewery], I would say either. Coming in, I remember 00:27:00interviewing with Brett Porter and, like, a panel of five people for this cellar job. I remember it being very intimidating. And there were questions coming up like, how do you deal with frustrations and constant challenge and whatever. And kind of like, huh, Ok, what's going on in that department, in that world? And that's just, that's just beer. There are constant challenges and then when you get into a brewing department, there's so many personalities. And different people deal with different things. I think it is important in the interview to ask how you roll with the punches, basically. Because it's a big facet of this industry and this work.

TEM: Did you think at that point, though, I'm going to get in at the cellar 00:28:00level and then...and then I'm gonna be on my way quickly? Were you still thinking that you wanted to be in the lab?

VV: Oh, no. No no. Right when I wanted to get in the cellar, then the lab was not even a part of it. And I didn't have any grand vision. I just wanted to get in the cellar. I wanted to learn. I knew I had a lot to learn. And I remember it being so drawn out, like the interview process and the weeks of "Oh, we'll tell you on Friday," and the waiting. There was like a crossroads. I was about to just say, "Ok, I have this pretty good job in Portland and I can move to Portland and do consulting work for threatened species. That type of monitoring, that works still." Or, I'm waiting for this job to come through. And it finally 00:29:00did after like a month. And it was just really exciting to get the opportunity. But I do remember being called in for actual, almost like a physical test. "Ok, can you pull this hop bag out of the brite tank?" Because at the time, we dry-hopped with whole hops in the brite tank and you'd have to physically go in and lift them out. And they could be wet and super heavy. And I'm sure they looked at, just, physics. Like, can this person do it? Once I showed that I could do actual functions that were necessary for the job. I know they took a risk on me without having any prior experience, but I was able to give them a year's worth of Deschutes. My personality matched and that sort of thing. And I got in.

TEM: How long were you in the cellar?

VV: It was about a year. But the shift there is the department changed, where we 00:30:00used to be cellars and brewhouse, and then it morphed into just being the brewing department, and all brewers would rotate between the cellars and the brewhouse. And so, it's not like I got a promotion, but then it just kind of changed how the whole department was run. But then the opportunity to train on the brewhouse was awesome.

TEM: What was the difference between what you thought it would be like and what it was like? Was there a difference in what you had hoped it would be like to be a brewer and then the reality?

VV: I can say that I never romanticized what it would be like. Because being in tours and being here, I saw what it was. I mean, Pat Gerhart will tell me that 00:31:00she remembers when I first got hired, me coming up to her in the cellars just to say, "How's it going," and I looked up and my eyes were like deer in the headlights. And I feel like the first couple years were just like that, where I was just learning so much. It was like sensory overload, and exciting to me beyond what I can explain. Because there was that constant challenge and constant learning, and that really fits my personality. And so I didn't have this vision, I was just like, let me tackle this day, this week, and it wasn't until maybe three years into my time in production where I started to have grander goals. I started to peel away what part of brewing is most interesting to me and where can I have most impact. And where does my skill set lead me?

TEM: What was the answer?

VV: Recipes, the creative side. And also people. I'd say the first thing, the biggest opportunity I got was to be in the pub rotation. So I was on my third year in production and I got to work with Paul Arney. And he mentored me in recipe development and having the opportunity to brew my own beers. And so without having brewing education at the time, that's was when my Mexican ingredients and all that started to come into my recipes. I knew I wanted to make my own spin, my own touch on a Belgian style or whatever. And then Paul helped on the recipe, the technical piece of putting together a recipe. And then like the oh, making ten barrels of this thing! [Laughs.] It just always felt 00:33:00like my neck was stretched out for those first five, six years. There's always something that felt like, wow, this is so big! Like, inviting my friends to taste that first beer, it was Twin Pillars, it was a strong Belgian with Mexican brown sugar. And it was just such an awesome feeling to savor one happy and, you know, drinking the beer.

TEM: So, at what point did you become head brewer?

VV: Well, the timing was, I had just finished my rotation there. And Paul moved to start his own brewery. And since I was on the rotation, they kind of left me on, as a lead. But, they let me know, Ok, we're gonna post this position, of course you could apply but we'll have you lead until then. And so I kind of feel 00:34:00lucky that I had the opportunity to just kind of play that role before even being able to apply for it. And I had the opportunity the year prior to show what recipes I could make and how I would work down there with the staff. That's so important, it's not just going back there and brewing, it's what's the whole picture. What was the question?

TEM: It was the next step, so the ascension on the ladder.

VV: Oh yeah. Right, right. But I do remember not feeling totally ready, but that opportunity came before I was completely comfortable. And I kid you not, I remember applying and going back home and dry heaving in my backyard because I was so overwhelmed at the opportunity and the potential for it. And fear also. It was all there, it was just so overwhelming. I was like, I just can't believe 00:35:00all this is happening.

TEM: And, at that point, Bend has changed a lot. Even within the five years, six years, since you had gotten here, the beer scene had certainly expanded a lot.

VV: Right, and that was right when our pub was expanding. Like, the construction project was on the horizon, and our whole draft line system was being torn apart and expanded. So things, again, I didn't have direct experience with. But, I was excited to be a part of lots of big things.

TEM: What surprised you then about those early days as head brewer? So head brewer is different from brew master?

VV: That's the funny thing, our naming conventions for positions is, brew master 00:36:00leads. Within Brian and I, he leads operations and I lead product development. Back then, it was one brew master leading all brewing. And so as a pub head brewer, sure, that's what you're doing, but we call them assistant brew masters because you're still linked to the brew master in terms of company projects and brew master is gonna tell you that there's projects that you need to test at the pub. So it's not like you're your own entity kind of out there being able to do whatever you want. It kind of makes sense, but it does require some explanation.

TEM: Yeah, I think it's probably simply the size. If you have more moving parts you need more hierarchy.

VV: Right, exactly. So assistant brew master basically leads an area at 00:37:00Deschutes. So whether it's a cellar, or the brew houses here in production or the Portland pub, the Bend pub, the barrel program, that sort of thing. Yeah, I remember becoming assistant brew master and then, again, it's just another time of learning. Right when the comfort level was there, it was the door opened to Ok, let's learn, basically, how to run a small business along with the management staff over there. And how to run projects, and how to juggle day to day things while juggling more future planning. That sort of thing. Managing a person. That was the first time I managed someone. And then things changed for me personally. I was pregnant, and then had to learn how to be a pregnant brewer!

TEM: [Laughs.] I'm guessing there were some lifting restrictions toward the end!

VV: [Laughs.] Yeah! I mean, I think back, like I said, this is a year into my position there, got pregnant, and then the expansion project happened. So the whole pub was like, unearthed. So, the aromas and smells of an old restaurant being cut open. It was awful! And I remember being really afraid of telling people before my three-month mark that I was pregnant, but I had horrible morning sickness - it was just all-day sickness. And all of that was happening. It was just, I'll never forget that time, ever.

TEM: And probably the smells?

VV: Yeah, running to the bathroom, puking, and not letting anyone know about it! I feel like now, thinking back, I thought "Why was I so afraid?" I should have 00:39:00told one or two people. In hindsight, at the time since I was so new in my role.

TEM: I think just not knowing how to be pregnant.

VV: Exactly, exactly.

TEM: So you were inspired or felt the impact of having women in brewing to look to. Was there a point where people started asking you, women brewers started asking you, how do you do this, looking to you as a role model or as an inspiration?

VV: Yeah, that became apparent right [away], even in production. And it felt really weird to get that attention. Because even though I was inspired by it, then to be interviewed, I felt like, oh, no. Erik is doing the same work that I'm doing, and he's not getting an interview. It felt a little weird, more on 00:40:00the team level. I felt like, I'm a part of a team, there's nothing really special about what I do just because I'm female. But that's always been a part of my career. I've been introduced as a female brewer. It's so weird. It's like, isn't that obvious? [Laughs.]

TEM: [Laughs.]

VV: I'm just a brewer! But I've come to terms and kind of appreciated that if someone can get inspiration by that interview or if I can give pointers to an intern or a student, then I'm happy to do that for that reason.

TEM: I can imagine though, within a team, when anybody is pulled out, that that could create some...I don't know, that could be a little bit weird.

VV: You know I came from a large family, I'm comfortable in that, and I have 00:41:00always felt that this department is my family. I've never been comfortable with being singled out for the reason that it's always been the team. We're together on everything.

TEM: That's the sort of catch-22. Being there for people to see you means that there are more, means that maybe you are called out.

VV: Yes, right.

TEM: So, what do you love about what you do every day?

VV: It's still, it's still always changing and always challenging and always big. Everything feels big. And now, I've always been surprised at what tends to light my fire, and right now I'm surprised that leadership and portfolio management, and stuff like that is exciting for me to learn on top. Again, 00:42:00through that thing of beer. But it's exciting to me to learn how to get the best from your team. How to do your work with, and through other people.

TEM: How do you learn? I mean, I am looking behind you, as is the camera on your bookshelf. How do you continue to learn in a sort of meaningful and productive way? I feel like there are lots of things online, there are lots of books, there's lots of new stuff, there's lots of old stuff. How do you continue to learn, whether that's about recipes, or leadership and management?

VV: Yeah. I'm a big reader, so I read books in brewing. BA, whatever publication they put out I'll tend to grab and read. I listen to podcasts, and that I think is the best way to get the really recent stuff that brewers are excited about 00:43:00talking about. But I listen to podcasts on all sorts of different topics, whether its music or art, and that trickles into the things that inspire me in beer. I cram, even for meetings. If I have to prep for a strategic planning or something I'm gonna grab a book and just look at the sections that are on facilitating good brainstorming or that sort of thing. And I'm always a note-taker, I like some reading and taking notes, and that cements it in. Yeah, those I would say - podcasts, reading and writing.

TEM: See, it's all that English.

VV: Yeah, that English stuff. Reading and writing. Yeah, I get a lot out of notetaking and kind of reflecting when I have the time. I wish I had more time to reflect. But, getting together kind of a plan before a meeting or something 00:44:00like that.

TEM: So even in the time that you really jumped into brewing, what is it like now to be a brewer in Bend, as opposed to even five years ago? And the answer can be it hasn't changed.

VV: I think it has. In Bend, we're like the mature large brewery, you know we have to be comfortable with the excitement that you hear from other people on all the other smaller breweries. And, it's a part of the culture of the town, and it's an interesting competition, kind of tension. I say tension because you don't want there to be tension. I think the community that I want to be a part of, and I know our brewers want to be a part of, is a very collaborative one. But there is still here and there a little tension on, you wanna get the next 00:45:00beer style out first, or that sort of thing. It's natural to be somewhat competitive, and it's an interesting tension with craft beer because you want it to be very collaborative. We've done it for so long, we want that to keep going. And so we're gonna work hard to keep it collaborative.

TEM: Yeah, and I think we've talked about this with Gary, that there's also the tension of size and maturity and something that's new, something that's getting a lot of press, as opposed to something that has a history, has a foundation, experience.

VV: In the consumer, how they look at us. I sometimes worry that they don't get that we are 500 families. And that we are still a family-run business. And we've 00:46:00done big things as a family-run business. It's still very much, we are doing the work. For our capital, for our product development, our improvements to the business operations, we're doing the work.

TEM: So we are at 3:05, as the time keeper. What was something that you thought I would ask you about or something that maybe you wanted to share but didn't have a chance to share?

VV: Gosh, you hit actually a lot - family, college! [laughs]

TEM: When I have a time limit, I'm so focused! [Laughs]

VV:I don't know, I guess maybe, I think of the meaning of Deschutes to me. And 00:47:00it has made a profound change of my life. I met my husband here, my husband works with the brewery as well, so our whole family dynamic is cemented in Deschutes. Our kids have been running through the pubs for eleven years. And what this brewery had done for me career-wise, and the layers it's peeled away in me and my interests, and the opportunity it's given to me have been amazing. So, I'm totally indebted to this company. Forever I will be, for what it's given to me. And I'm really proud to work here.